#lotr analysis

[winwin17]

Something about Elves experiencing memory as a special thing wherein they relive an instance very vividly... And something about Elves tending to prioritize a good memory over an unhappy reality (see: Aegnor and Andreth).

Something about Legolas choosing to take Gimli with him to Valinor even though he could have parted on the shore and been left with good last memories of his dear friend to treasure for the rest of time. Something about Legolas being willing to bring Gimli along even though he knew he'd have to see him die. He brought him because he wanted so much to keep his friend around, but also because Gimli really, really wanted to see Galadriel again, and Legolas decided to give him that.

Something about the greatest form of love being that which seeks another's good over one's own, that chooses to prioritize another's happiness even in the face of sacrifice for oneself.

Ugh, this gives me Feels!! 😭

Like, do you get it yet??

So many Elves wouldn't have done this. So many Elves, apparently by something in their own nature(?), tended to shy away from a sad last memory and instead live forever in the fancies of a memory that was positive!! Aegnor gave up a lover partly on this basis!! (Not that his choice didn't take Andreth's good into consideration as well, but you see what I'm getting at.)

But Legolas!! This silly, strange Elf from the Woods, decided he'd rather give Gimli a happy end than have a happy end himself!! Legolas is out there displaying the greatest, most selfless form of love known to living beings!!

Weeping, crying, rolling upon the floor, curling up in a ball and rocking back and forth as I contemplate the beauty and the pain of this.....

Look, I know there were still plenty of happy memories from all his mortal friends' lifetimes to dwell upon. And Valinor is a place of healing, so there's that. But still, apparently many Elves would go out of their way to avoid sad memories, especially pertaining to their loved ones. These strong, powerful, way-more-talented-than-you beings!! Avoiding sad memories like little kids avoiding nasty medicine!! And yet they get showed up by people like Legolas, humble in comparison to so many of them, who looked at love and went, "Ah nah, this stuff's for giving out, not keeping in!" and doled it out by the shovelful.

You guys, I can't .... This whole thing breaks my heart and heals it right back up again. 💔❤️‍🩹

[elwayken]

I would like to talk about Aragorn and the quote:

Ónen i-Estel Edain, Ú-chebin estel anim.

Which, in my version of the books, translates to: "I give Hope to the Dunedain, I have kept no Hope for myself" (The Return of the King, 1392).

In the novels, this line was Gilraen's (Aragorn's mother) last words to Aragorn. She dies from age, saying that, "I am aged by care... and now that it draws near I cannot face the darkness of our time that gathers upon Middle-Earth" (1329). Essentially, her final lines are why she is passing. All the hope she had, she gave to the Dunedain, and now that the darkness of Sauron draws near, she does not have enough for herself to survive his terror.

In the films, this line is shared by Elrond and Aragorn.

Elrond delivers Aragorn the reforged shards of Narsil (now Andúril) in the tent of Theoden, as all the men of Rohan ride to the aid of Gondor. Elrond, who had a hand in raising Aragorn, has the first part of the line that is seen in the screen cap above. "I give hope to men", Aragorn then responds with "I keep none for myself."

Important note: In the novels, after his father's death, Aragorn is sent to be raised in Rivendale, where he is given the name Estel. Estel, meaning Hope. Aragorn does not know his proper name until he is twenty, nor does he know his true lineage. Elrond hides it from him until he has earned it. More or less. Also, none of this information has been contradicted by the films' lore, so I am considering it canon in both sources.

Aragorn's journey and his role within the narrative are about hope. Within the films, he is the one who consistently reminds Gandalf that hope remains that Frodo can complete the job.

One of my favourite moments within the books is in Fellowship of the Ring after Gandalf's "death" in Moria. Aragorn stands up, raises his sword to the mountain and cries, "Farewell, Gandalf... What hope have we without you?" and then he promptly turns to the rest of the fellowship and says, "We must do without hope... weep no more! Come!" (433). I like this moment because to himself we see a moment where Aragorn is questioning how they will continue their journey, but will not infect the others in the fellowship with his hesitation.

One final thought I would like to express is that by donning the name Estel, his mother has ensured that her son will never run out of hope. No matter how much he gives to others, he can always find hope within himself because he is hope.

[mxliv-oftheendless]

Hey, so a while back, I saw an AMAZING thread from LOTR fans about Frodo cursing Gollum and placing a gea on him and so damning Gollum to inevitably fall into Mount Doom and take the Ring with him—and how this is a recurring theme in the Legendarium where curses and oaths have real power and are not to be messed with. And while again the thread was AWESOME, it also made me think of something.

So we all know how Boromir tries to take the Ring from Frodo in Fellowship of the Ring, and then when Frodo fights back, Boromir screams that he’ll kill them all and curses him and all halflings to darkness. Given how we’ve established that curses have serious power and all of them come to pass—is Boromir laying a curse on Frodo? Because you could argue that it worked on Frodo but all the other hobbits seem to not be damned to darkness (I would argue the Scouring of the Shire doesn’t even count because the hobbits were able to rebuild). So what’s going on? Is it that Boromir didn’t really mean it? Did the curse only fall on Frodo?

[dutchkel]

When Celebrimbor says they are going to make an object of power to stop the fading in s1, the elves all list what type of object of power that represents a particular corruption weakness that may or may not somewhat relate to each character. Elrond says it should be a scepter, Galadriel a sword, and Celebrimbor a crown (which is Sauron's idea probably and not his) . Gil Galad rejects one all-powerful ruler saying it's too much power for one person (foreshadowing the dangers of the One Ring), Galadriel rejects the tempting idea of the monarchy (King & Queen) wearing crowns and suggests 3 rings for balance. Nice kind of inherent warning and message about power and corruption and balance of power in branches of government.

I like how in Tolkiens' forward to the LOTR books he says his books are not an allegory of WWII. He said if they were then they would have done as Boromir desired and taken the One ring for themselves and forced an end to the war with Sauron and brought him to heel. So using modern language, the One Ring=weapon of mass destruction.

[a-dime-a-day]

going absolutely insane rn about the little Houses of Healing reprise at 6:12 of The Journey to the Grey Havens

[abemusedobsessive]

So apparenly reading the text of "The Lord Of The Rings" by J.R.R. Tolkien, specifically the realtionship between Frodo and Sam as at the very least applicable to queerness and a queer realtionship* is ""denying the bond of traumatised comrades in a war.""

I– what? No!

Also it is perfectly possible and okay to have more than one reading of a text (even mutally contradicting readings; and ones the author may not have intended) so long as you can make your point using the text.

*My personal reading is as a QPR.

[velvet4510]

The Gaffer is an interesting character to me. His few scenes definitely show us that he is a gruff kind of guy who never shies away from making his opinion known among the gossips. Though he’s illiterate, he’s not stupid at all, and is actually very intelligent when it comes to all things gardening. But he also has very polite manners toward the gentry and is more than humble enough to “know his place” and be content with the simple working class life. He doesn’t share Sam’s passion for Elves and for learning in general. He’s perfectly fine with his lot in life and has no aspirations. It’s clear that Sam’s modesty, resourcefulness, and grounded sense are all inherited from the Gaffer.

Yet I’ve seen the Gaffer get a bit of hate amongst the fandom. Some dislike how he apparently calls Sam names like “ninnyhammer,” and some fanfics have taken this and ran with it to the point of depicting the Gaffer as a straight-up abusive father. Which…absolutely does not gel with Tolkien’s portrait of him at all.

It seems to me that the Gaffer is actually similar to Gandalf in his demeanor. When frustrated or exasperated, he calls people names, but in an affectionate way. And Sam obviously adores his dad, constantly worrying about his wellbeing back home. It’s clear they have a close and good relationship. Sam just does not seem or feel like an abused child. Maybe overly humbled, yes - the Quest does give him a much-needed boost in self-esteem - but not abused. Sam doesn’t have an abusive or unkind bone in his body; I really don’t think he would be as benign as he is, if he grew up with as cruel a role model as many seem to assume the Gaffer is.

Especially since Sam’s mom is clearly no longer around, and his older siblings seem to have all moved out, since Sam and his dad are the only ones who live in 3 Bagshot Row. So they seem similar to Bilbo and Frodo in that it’s been the 2 of them for a while, they have their own little lifestyle system that works for them, and they look after each other.

Notice in particular how the Gaffer often calls his son “my Sam,” which to me indicates he has great affection and pride for Sam. He even seems like he has that parental mindset of remembering and always seeing his son as his little boy, even when his son is all grown up.

The Gaffer also gives off the vibe of somebody who is actually much more open-minded than he claims to be. Yes, he’s a traditionalist and doesn’t like the idea of leaving home for anything. But notice how he fervently defends Bilbo and Frodo in front of the gossips. He’s not among those who disapprove of the Bagginses or call them “mad.” He’s very fond of them and will not speak ill of them. He appreciates how kind they are to him, and doesn’t see any harm in their unusual interests. And while he does drill an absolute sense of humbleness into Sam by saying things like “don’t get mixed up with your betters,” he actually doesn’t seem to mind that Bilbo taught Sam to read and write, even though Sam wasn’t “supposed” to be literate given his place in society. I feel like while he is set in his ways, he is also able to notice and acknowledge when something unusual has its benefits.

And let’s never forget that the Gaffer is also brave! He literally lies to a Nazgûl’s face to protect Frodo, claiming Frodo had already left when he hadn’t. Even if he didn’t know Frodo hadn’t left yet, it’s still clear he has no intention of selling Frodo out to this creepy guy. When push comes to shove, the Gaffer has some admirable courage inside him…another quality of his that Sam inherited.

I also feel great sympathy for him when I consider what that year must’ve been like for him. Imagine your son disappearing without a trace for 14 straight months, right after some creepy cloaked guy comes asking for your son’s boss. How terrified must that poor guy have been! It’s not much of a stretch to assume he was worried about Sam every single day, wondering if he was safe, if he’d ever see him again. How much sleep must he have lost because of his fears.

And of course, Sam names his fourth son after him. Another indicator that they had a genuinely good and loving relationship.

I really like the Gaffer and will always defend him. Let’s give him some credit. He’s a good guy. We primarily have him to thank, anyway, for raising Sam to be the amazing person he is.

[chaotic-multi-fandom]

I was having a lotr discussion with my friend about how much we'd last carrying the one ring, until I suddenly came up with a question. Does the ring's power increase with each bearer because it hold the darkness and corruption of each of them?

This not only would change the perspective of the story but actually give sense to a LOT of things. First of all:

The ring is sentient, it has a will of its own, and clearly willingly links itself to people and exerts its power, literally molding and manipulating their very minds, to the point were even once destroyed Frodo and Bilbo are still linked to it in some ways, with an old delirious Bilbo still asking about the ring. If the rings power lasts withing it's bearers after it's gone, why shouldn't the ring also keep the darkness and corruption those people suffered when carrying the ring, storing and fueling its power, making it stronger.

This would entail that Frodo isn't only carrying his burden, but that of Sauron, Isildur, Smeagle and Bilbo, making it and even more indescribable burden and ultimately impossible task. It also explains why he must be the sole ring-bearer something which Elrond and Galadriel stress, eventhough sharing the burden of the ring would've been a logical choice for most people (at least between the hobbit and elves who have a greater resistance). Since this would mean that the ring would be contaminated by each ones darkness making it even stronger and harder to carry.

It would also better explain how even Sam, after only carrying it for a few hours while he thought Frodo was dead, had trouble giving it back to Frodo. As a character Sam would at least resist as much as Frodo, and yet, in only a few hours he was already heavily influenced, because the ring would already be carrying Frodo's burden and darkness. When given back to Frodo it then became an even heavier burden for him, to the point were he couldn't stand. While this would be the expected after carrying the ring for a year, it could have also been influenced by Frodo now also carrying Sam's burden and darkness from thinking Frodo was dead and taking responsibility of the ring. Of course this just makes the "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you" moment even MORE impactful, they literally carry each other.

Anyway this convo ended up lasting from 10pm to 1am and led to thesis worth material that I need 7 business days to digest, but will soon put into actual comprehensible writing.