#moash discourse

[lizardson]

I don't think I'll ever get over the "it was just about revenge" angle of condemnation for moash killing elhokar. like yeah man was it perhaps revenge for the rampant class based abuse that's built into alethi society. was it revenge against the leader of the empire that's run on oppression and discrimination of the lower class. is there a reason why being personally victimized by those systems of oppression is not a noble enough motive

[cosmereplay]

Which of these Moash kicking moments is the most Moash?

Moash kicking Gavinor aside so he can get better murder leverage

Moash kicking Lift across the room, knocking her out, for double murder leverage

Rock threatening to kick Moash for being a complainer

Moash kicking a literal rock and stubbing his toe as Graves and co argue

Was there a Moash kicking moment I missed? Share in the notes!

Voting ended onFeb 16, 2023

[knightsgaydiant]

y’know the thing about the Moash kick discourse (like the people that are genuinely mad about the kick) at this point I’m like…y’know what? you’re right… Moash should’ve just stabbed through Gavinor to get to Elhokar

[etiennelux]

i wouldn’t feel the need to swing so hard for moash if people were just like a little more open to thinking about him w a little nuance and understanding, like the reason i come out so hard for him is bc nobody else is lmao and that makes me insane???

[skyofdarkmatter42]

All of you are writing these complex 100 page long comparison and analysis essays, I struggled with how I feel about this but then I had the just-before-falling-asleep realization that I simply genuinely like dalinar and dont like moash

Its not about arcs and their past and opinions and deep characterization shit it's just about I dont like moash as a person and I dont know why but this realization is so funny to me

Like.. fuck moash because idk man I dont really like him. Dalinar's not perfect but he's nice now

[andthentheywilleatthestars]

Haven’t read RoW yet, but from what I’ve heard about it there’s a significant chance the TSA’s treatment of Moash is going to turn into an inescapable rot that just totally ruins the entire series

[cosmereplay]

I hate Moash's blindness as a metaphor. The trope itself is questionable, although we don't know what Sanderson will do with the disability. I'm trying to be patient and hold my judgment but I'm not hopeful.

But the fandom revelling in it makes it horrible. People's excitement that Moash "deserves" to be blind because he's bad (and maybe if he's good he'll be cured! uwu) gets to be witnessed by actual blind fans and fans with other disabilities. It's not a good look.

I'm not blind but I am disabled and people in my real life have told me to my face that I would get better if I would just be a better person.

I was not made disabled as a punishment so that I could learn a lesson.

Moash's blindness isn't just a metaphor because real people use that rhetoric on real people like me. I hate it, thanks.

[the-stormwagon]

On moash’s political beliefs (spoilers up to WoR before the break, and up to RoW after it):

I have seen many people say that Moash has revolutionary beliefs, and is doing resistance towards the lighteyes the “better way” vs kaladin. And I think people really don’t understand him as a character. He very clearly doesn’t care about the inherent problems with the class system, only with the problem that he’s the one being oppressed. He himself says that he would be fine with the system if the darkeyes were in charge!

He doesn’t have an actual set of beliefs, he has a desire for revenge and a justification for it. His problem isn’t that the class system is inherently oppressive and unjust, his problem is that people in power hurt him. Oftentimes, his justifications line up with what is right, but that’s not because he has thought about it and come to a coherent conclusion, it’s because his anger lines up with the larger injustice.

He never says “the class system is bad”, only that “the lighteyes being in power is bad”, (and more specifically that elhokar in particular is bad) and those are two very different things. He doesn’t want elhokar out of power, he wants him punished for what happened to his grandparents.

Even after Elhokar has lost most of his power, and is actively in the process of trying to be better, Moash isn’t willing to accept that no person deserves to die because of their incompetence and naivety.

It’s also why I don’t see Moash turning on bridge 4 as a “he’s got a good point but we can’t have the audience sympathize with him so let’s make him kick a puppy” moment, but rather as a clear continuation of his character. He has an emotion (in this case anger that kaladin wants to protect Elhokar), and wants to respond to it with violence, and creates a worldview around that desire. He sees himself as inherently good and right, and anyone against him as inherently bad and wrong. His prejudice doesn’t line up with class lines anymore, but it’s still the same drive and response.

Moash turns to Odium because he sees Kaladin being “against him” and so allies with the person who’s also “against Kaladin”, no matter the actual morals of who he’s aligning with. He allies himself with someone objectively more evil than the lighteyes, simply because he hates the lighteyes and so do they.