#nonnos

[deathlessathanasia]

„Because Perseus is slightly older, and thus slightly ahead of Dionysus in performing heroic deeds during his own heroic quest, Perseus is repeatedly staged as Dionysus’ role model and rival, while Semele also challenges Danae. The two heroes finally meet in Argos (Book 47), at which occasion Perseus petrifies Ariadne and Zeus has to stop Dionysus from destroying Perseus and Argos in his anger. Up to this point, Perseus, just like Polyphemus, is only mentioned as an absent character, leaving behind traces of his actions in the admiration of his former host Staphylus (hosting Perseus before hosting Dionysus) and in the frustrations of his stepmother Hera (who is just as irritated about Perseus’ successes as about Dionysus’ progress in the Indian War).”

- Berenice Verhelst, „Minor Characters in the Dionysiaca”. In Accorinti (Ed.) Brill’s Companion to Nonnus of Panopolis

[deathlessathanasia]

„The epic repeatedly evokes the idea that catasterism also entails a sortof immortalisation, which can serve as a reward or consolation for certain characters. Harmonia’s foster mother, Electra, hopes that one day she will join her sisters, the Pleiads, in the sky; her hope is qualified as ‘comforting’ or ‘consoling’ (παρήγορον ἐλπίδα, 3.351), while the idea that the sky will be her home (οὐρανὸν οἶκον ἔχουσα, 3.354) is certainly reminiscent of apotheosis. The Bacchante Ambrosia, thanks to whom Lycurgus is defeated, will, at the end, be catasterised (21.295–297) as a recompense for her long and arduous battle. Erigone’s dedication to her father is rewarded by Zeus, who takes pity on her and fixes her in the sky (47.246–247) or ‘joins’ her soul to the star of Virgo, while also catasterising her beloved dog as the Sirius star close by (47.257–262). Notice also that in the prophecy of Zeus cited above Dionysus’ apotheosis is first evoked in a phrase reminiscent of catasterism (in 7.97 Dionysus is predicted to ‘share the courses of the stars’, σύνδρομον ἄστρων). This is not to say, however, that catasterism is consistently portrayed as a serious alternative to death or as a state of perfect, blissful immortality. Apart from occasionally being attacked or chased by monsters, constellations can also continue suffering, in their astral form, what they suffered on earth. The most entertaining example comes in the context of the syncrisis between Dionysus and Perseus in Book 25.24 There, Andromeda herself complains that catasterism did her no good, as even in the stars she is chained up and persecuted by the sea monster, while the constellation of her mother, Cassiopeia, has to suffer being dipped into the sea, fearful of the Nereids (25.123–142)”

- Fotini Hadjittofi, „Major Themes and Motifs in the Dionysiaca”. In Accorinti (Ed.) Brill’s Companion to Nonnus of Panopolis

[deathlessathanasia]

“An interesting example with regard to characterization is that of Nike’s exhortation to Zeus in the guise of Leto. The difference with Iris’ speech to Dionysus lies not only in the fact that the addressee is a more powerful, presumably all-knowing god, but also in the fact that Nike has no intentions to deceive her addressee. Why would she then make use of a disguise?The answer seems to lie in her rhetorically constructed speech (2.209–236), for which she not only assumes the identity, but also fully adopts the perspective of Leto, who—sufficiently characterized by the mythological tradition—does not appear elsewhere in the Dionysiaca as an acting and speaking character.30 The speech starts with a request to Zeus to fight on behalf of his children (σῶν τεκέων πρόμος ἵστασο, 2.209), which is certainly an appropriate opening sentence for Leto both as the mother of two of these children and in her capacity of a benign mother goddess, connected in her cult to the initiation of young boys and girls.31 The reference to Athena at the start of her speech(γάμων ἀδίδακτον Ἀθήνην, 2.210), whose virginity is threatened by Typhon, has to be connected to the end of the speech, where Leto more elaborately returns to the same topic, now concerning her own daughter Artemis (2.232–236), whom she urges Zeus to defend with even more urgency.32 Whereas the middle part of Leto’s speech is more neutral in tone (2.214–226: a catalogue of gods who have abandoned their tasks because of Typhon), the last part clearly aims at an emotional impact. Leto concludes her catalogue of afflicted gods with an exclamation of surprise, for, despite their history of animosity, she even feels pity for Hera (Ἆ μέγα θαῦμα, | καὶ μάλα μοι κοτέουσανἐποικτείρω σέθεν Ἥρην, 2.226–227). A second exclamation follows (2.228),now in the form of a question: will Kronos and the Titans return to Olympus?( Ἦ ῥα τεὸς γενέτης πάλιν ἵξεται εἰς χορὸν ἄστρων;). Leto immediately confirms that she certainly hopes not and emphasizes in her answer her own identity as a Titan goddess (εἰ Τιτηνὶς ἀκούω, 2.229).33 In her emotional reaction, Leto is portrayed as a faithful Olympian. She puts her rivalry with Hera aside in a time of need and prefers the Olympians over the Titans, thus renouncing her own Titan identity. The emotional impact on Zeus that is aimed at is clear: Leto is made an example of selfless and magnanimous loyalty. Her unselfish reaction to the events has to serve as an incentive for Zeus to fight Typhon with more vigour.

Leto’s character and position among the Olympians make her a suitable speaker to exhort Zeus, which explains Nike’s choice to impersonate Leto. But one might also wonder why Nonnus did not choose to give Leto herself this role in the first place. Why inserting an exhortation by Nike ‘in the guise’ of Leto? There are two factors which we may have to take into account. On the one hand, Nike’s presence as the goddess of Victory can be interpreted as a symbol of Zeus’ nearing victory. Her identity is veiled for Zeus, but for the reader of the Dionysiaca it functions as an interpretative key. On the other hand, the (seemingly unnecessary) complex construction with Nike, who appears in the guise of Leto, puts more emphasis on the choice of Leto as speaker, than would have been the case if Leto herself spoke to Zeus. It draws the attention of the reader to the persuasive effect of the choice of the speaker, and, ultimately, also to the intelligent design of this speech. Within the framework of the Dionysiaca, Nike gives a fine example of an ethopoeia (the rhetorical exercise of speaking ‘in character’) by quite literally putting herself in the shoes of Leto and creating in this way the most suitable persona to convince her addressee.”

- Berenice Verhelst, „Minor Characters in the Dionysiaca”. In Accorinti (Ed.) Brill’s Companion to Nonnus of Panopolis

[deathlessathanasia]

„She [Rhea] is a silent character, speaking only through messengers or deceptive dreams, but regarding her function in the plot, which is not limited to one episode or plotline, she can be called a major character. She is Dionysus’ adoptive mother and the only one able to protect him against Hera during his childhood (9.145–246, also one of the passages announced in the programmatic prologue). She takes the lead in assembling Dionysus’ army for the Indian campaign (13–14). She is of invaluable help to him during the campaign by sending her foster son a new god-made shield and announcing him his nearing victory by the mouth of Attis (25.310–379, giving a flying start to the second half of the poem), and by eliminating Ares as helper of the Indian battle force (29.325–362). She, however, also intervenes in Dionysus’ favour in other episodes (e.g. giving speech to the metamorphosed Ambrosia in the Lycurgus episode, 21.33). Finally, after the war, her home is the destination of Dionysus’ νόστος (43.440–449); the spoils of war have been collected in her honour (35.369–370).”

- Berenice Verhelst, „Minor Characters in the Dionysiaca”. In Accorinti (Ed.) Brill’s Companion to Nonnus of Panopolis

[deathlessathanasia]

Omg, how could I forget that scene in Book 8 of the Dionysiaca where Hera complains about Zeus to his thunder and lightning and asks them to avenge her? Lmao

"With these words Hera left the house, and the girl still in her grief, jealous of the inimitable state of Hera’s marriage and unsatisfied with Cronion. Hera returned to heaven and went indoors. There beside the heavenly throne she saw the weapons of Zeus lying without their owner; and as if they could hear, she addressed them in friendly cajoling words: “Dear Thunder, has Zeus my cloudgatherer deserted you too then? Who has stolen you again and left your owner naked? Thunder, you have been plundered! But Typhoeus has nothing to do with it. The same has happened to Hera, my comforter: Rainy Zeus has a bride to look after and neglects us both. The earth is no more sprinkled with showers: the downfall of rain has ceased, drought feeds on the plowland furrows and makes the crops worthless, the countryman speaks not more of Cloudy Zeus but Zeus Cloudless. My dear Lightnings, utter your fiery appeal to Cronion, call upon womanmad Zeus, my thunderbolts! Avenge the jealous pain of Hera, attend upon Semele’s wedding! Let her pray for a wedding-gift and receive her own fiery destroyers!”"

[deathlessathanasia]

„She [Semele] had brushed away from her eyes the oblivious wing of sleep, and sent her mind wandering after the image of a dream with riddling oracles. She thought she saw in a garden a tree with fair green leaves, laden with newgrown clusters of swelling fruit yet unripe, and drenched in the fostering dews of Zeus. Suddenly a flame fell through the air from heaven, and laid the whole tree flat, but did not touch its fruit; then a bird flying with outspread wings caught up the fruit half-grown, and carried it yet lacking full maturity to Cronion. The Father received it in his kindly bosom, and sewed it up in his thigh; then instead of the fruit, a bull-shaped figure of a man came forth complete over his loins. Semele was the tree!” - Nonnos, Dionysiaca Book 7

Subtle symbolism you got there Nonnos, really subtle.

[deathlessathanasia]

Ok so the fact that in the Typhonomachy episode from the Dionysiaca Nike decides to take the appearance of Leto of all people when she goes to arm and encourage Zeus to fight is… quite interesting actually! Nonnos, what did you know?

[zeherili-ankhein]

Okay so turns out Nonnos wasn't the only guy who fantasized about India being a Dionysian territory cuz his book was so influential that actually many other Greeks of his time had this mindset that India was civilized BECAUSE Dionysus went and conquered India.

BUT... the "civilized" part contradicts with Nonnos' Dionysiaca, because there we see how he portrays India, which is very civilized. Yes he does mention tribes and other mythical people, but he also mentions large Indian kingdoms, apart from Deriades' territory. His mention of Indians using metal armor AND their comparison to the Bachhae's natural foresty weapons further tells us that Indians were already civilized. Yes, we were racialized as "black-skinned" and stuff, but overall from an architectural pov, we were pretty sound. Also wasn't there a whole ass mention of Morrheus conquering the fucking Middle East??? Not only were we civilized but we were apparently invaders too ToT

Now one argument from the ancient Greeks side can be made is that, in the Dionysiaca, even before Dionysus tried invading, we can see every Indian worship the Greek gods, including the "brahmans", funnily. But then the question arises as to who spread the Hellenic religion in India in the first place? Was there an invader/preacher BEFORE Dio? Ion think so. Also, Hydaspes was a Greek god, and so were the rest of the Indian river deities, AND ofc Deriades. So maybe this is rather a case of Greek mythoverse (like how for an Indian Christian there's just the Christian God in India as well as everywhere else in the world) rather than spreading of a religion amongst other native religions.

So idk why they considered India as civilized BECAUSE Dio conquered it. Like, that contradicts the whole book which mentions the conquest in the first place.

India — The place (mostly) everybody's fantasy place [it's a joke people I won't take any attack]

1. So Nonnos was finally able to spread his propaganda of Dio's cult (kinda... Ig... Since people just took the entire thing differently)

Also it's funny that people even AFTER reading the Dionyciaca thought India became civilized because of that invasion... lmao like whom did Dio fight them ToT

Ok the racialization is kind of funny ngl, idk why but it just made me give a 🥹🤌 face

This is what happens in modern fandoms too I suppose, they read a book and make up their own headcanons which DO NOT support the “canon” AT ALL

Also I'm confused, as to how many Indian rivers the Greeks knew for them to have Gods for all those rivers

I don't think there were any invaders before Dionysus, Nonnos was just really creative

The mythverse theory seems plausible tbh, maybe Nonnos ignored the native religion factor and just went with the Greek Gods only thing, and they it continued to happen like that

It's so funny that they read the epic and went “ohh yk what I think? Yeah the whole story would be better if the main plot of the book DID NOT happen” 💀💀💀💀