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Off The Seton Path with Frank Iero: Full Transcription

Listen to the full podcast HERE

Brendon: Are you rolling?

Seton: Am I? I am! Yeah. Hey, Brendon, what's up?

B: Hi, Seton, how are you?

S: Great, great. And to you listening, welcome to Off The Seton Path. This is a podcast-

B: It is a podcast and it is 2019.

S: -that you've downloaded. Yeah, is this the first one of 2019?

B: This is the first one of 2019.

S: Yeah. How about that? And it's a good one. This is a banger, as they say.

B: This is definitely a banger. We don't even have to talk during this one. Well, you talk during this one, a whole lot.

S: Yeah. Yeah, I do talk, probably too much.

B: Well.

S: But that's-

B: I'll leave that up to the viewer.

S: Yeah, or listener, in this medium.

B: Your perspective.

S: Yeah. We have a really great interview here. Well, I think it's great because he was awesome. Frank Iero, he was in the band- he was the guitar player for My Chemical Romance, and then he's got other side projects, like Leathermouth was one, which was a really cool band, you should check them out. Frank Iero and the Patience, and there's a couple of other iterations of that band, of his solo stuff, but he is a really nice guy. Super cool guy. I met him last summer, actually, at a concert, and he was awesome. He was just a super nice guy, and I figured why not give him a call, see if he'd do an interview. He drove into New York City, which was really thoughtful of him. And- well, I don't know if it was thoughtful, but he drove into New York City from New Jersey, which was awesome, and we sat down at a place called The Ear Inn, which is-

B: Haunted.

S: -one of the oldest bars in New York City, and it's also supposed to be super haunted, which I thought, "How perfect for a guy like Frank Iero, who seems to be into that kind of that thing. He's got that sort of dark thing going on."

B: Black Parade, right?

S: Yeah, that was-

B: That's all there. I thought he was a wicked cool dude. First thing he did when we got in there, he was like, "I'm gonna go get a beer." And I have a camera on my shoulder, he's like, "Hey, do you want a beer?" And I was like, "Alright, this guy's good."

S: Yeah, he gets it.

B: This guy's good people.

S: Yeah. So anyway, I won't talk too much more about that, and I'll just let you get to the interview, but we do get into all of his solo stuff. He's got a podcast now that I think he's pretty pumped about. We talk a lot about ghosts, and we get into some stuff with My Chemical Romance, including the possibility of a reunion... I'm just gonna leave it out there. We do talk about that, despite the fact that I don't really think Frank wanted to.

B: Nope. You did the classic good interview. You were like, "I gotta ask."

S: Yeah. "I gotta ask you about this." So, he was gracious enough to let me ask that question, but anyway, enough talking. Here is an interview with Frank Iero. Enjoy.

S: Alright. So, I chose The Ear Inn to do this because it was built in the 18th century. Supposed to be super haunted, is what I hear.

Frank: I heard that there would be drinks and ghosts, and I was- you had me at both of those.

S: Right, yeah, those are- and actually the ghost, okay, so this place is supposed to be haunted by a ghost named Mickey. He was a drunken sailor-

F: Really?

S: Which, if you're gonna be haunted by somebody, it might as well be a drunken sailor.

F: See, I had questions about this. Like, ghosts- do they follow the same life that they had? Like, if you were drunk in life, do you stay drunk as a ghost? Or do you like, are you constantly looking for your next drink? Are you upset that you can't have one?

S: Well, so the legend has it that he- there's two ways that they think Mickey might've died. Either he drank himself to death sitting in one of these stools. Or he was hammered, walked outside, and got hit by a car.

F: Oh.

S: Either way, he supposedly- what happens to people here is they get their drink and sit down at the table, and by the time they get down at the table, their drink is gone.

F: No!

S: So, he'll drink your beer or whatever you're drinking.

F: What a shitty ghost! Sorry, I can't say that, right?

S: No, that's alright. You're okay. But yeah, the other thing they say, too, is that there's apartments up here, and occasionally, Mickey climbs into bed with some people, which is awkward.

F: Whoa.

S: I'd rather have him drink my beer, because if I'm sleeping, I don't wanna be disturbed.

F: Right, yeah. Is that how the statement "slipping a mickey," is that how that came about?

S: I don't know, it could be.

F: Alright.

S: That's wild.

F: That's strange.

S: So, you believe in ghosts? Or do you, I should say?

F: I would love to. I want so bad to believe in ghosts, or just the fact that there's something else. You know? I think that's what's so appealing about that, is that if there are ghosts involved in our lives, then that means that this isn't the only thing, you know? That there is something other than just darkness at the end of it.

S: So, I have a theory.

F: Go ahead.

S: This is what actually made me believe in ghosts, officially, 100%.

F: Okay, please.

S: A dog whistle.

F: Okay.

S: So, you know a dog whistle, right? You blow on it, and your dogs can hear it, but humans can't detect it because it's at a different frequency that, you know, our ears, for the most part, aren't picking it up, but for them, it's super loud. So, that got me thinking of the sounds out there that are happening that I can't hear because they're just at a different frequency. Why wouldn't there be other beings around that my senses just aren't picking up?

F: Different planes.

S: But for other people, or for other beings like dogs, they always say dogs can see ghosts.

F: Right.

S: I think dogs really have- are the answer.

F: You think that's the tie?

S: I do.

F: Alright. So, do you think all ghosts talk in a really high voice? That's the issue?

S: It's possible. It's possible. Yeah.

F: Maybe that's the- I don't know. Here's my question, right. Is that- where do you draw the line? Like, who gets to be a ghost, and why? And if everyone gets to be a ghost, then it has to be so crowded in that ethereal plane, you know? And then also, like, if that's happening, then there's gotta be ghosts that other ghosts really don't like, and they have to like- there's probably like gangs of ghosts, that are fighting.

S: There might be some kind of turf?

F: I would think, yeah.

S: Whereas, now, Mickey doesn't sound like all that tough of a guy. Why does he get to own The Ear Inn?

F: Yeah, like, that's the thing. He can't be the only one that died in the vicinity of The Ear Inn.

S: There was another place around the corner called The Death House that I thought was-

F: Oh, well, that sounds so much more badass.

S: That sounds really interesting, but I feel like I don't wanna put myself in those situations. I've never done a Ouija board.

F: I've done that.

S: Have you?

F: I've done that at a haunted hotel.

S: Get outta here!

F: Yeah.

S: What happened?

F: Well, I think somebody was pushing it.

S: You do?

F: Yeah. I think in order for those things to work, you have to do it with an asshole. Like, that's the only way it's really gonna be any fun, is like, somebody's gotta-

S: Like, "You be the guy."

F: Yeah, you have to, you know?

S: So, you're a skeptic?

F: I don't know if I'm so much a skeptic. It's just that I feel like a lot of things are easily explained, and that's unfortunate, you know what I mean? I wish that it was like, "Oh my god! The beer's not here anymore!" It's like, well, either somebody drank it or it spilled out.

S: Like, maybe a bartender messed with somebody or something.

F: I would be upset, though, if this wasn't' there anymore, so I get that.

S: I have had a history of thinking that I had a full beer, and then it was gone, and being like, "Well, that was weird. How did that happen?"

F: That's happened, yes. I have been haunted in the past.

S: "Better get another one." Apparently, I'm being haunted in bars all over the country.

F: Exactly. That was the interesting thing to me was like, we're going to a haunted bar. I was like, "Wow, usually I'm just haunted by the mistakes I've made being at a bar. Whereas, an actual spirit is going to come, like, that's where I wanna be."

S: Right, yeah. Like, "This is not my mistakes here."

F: Right, yeah yeah.

S: "That is causing me all this awful guilt." When you are travelling on the road, do you get to be a tourist? Or is it too busy?

F: I try to. I feel like in my younger days, I didn't. I really despised the travel so much that I let it affect how I toured, and it was like, "Oh no, I'm just gonna- just to the shows, and I don't even wanna see anything else. I don't wanna be here." And nowadays, I love going to new places that I've never been before, or even places that I've been a hundred times, but I haven't seen everything. I feel like, maybe I'm a little bit more relaxed in that setting of being a tourist. Of being out and experiencing things and not letting it, kind of, affect my show later on. I feel like it actually enhances the show later on, so, I'm into it if I have the time. But that's the hard part, man. Like, when you're on tour, the one thing you have is a lot of time, but it's a lot of hurry up and wait, you know? So, you're kind of on someone else's schedule at all times. You know? Waiting for soundchecks, or doing press, or you know, whatever it may be.

S: So, you've been in- you've played massive places like, you know, Reading and Leeds, headlined that, which is crazy. Brian May comes out, like, oh my god! And then you played, you know, you started small.

F: Played places like The Ear Inn.

S: You played places like here, too. Is it just as busy either- the bigger the venue, the more busy you get?

F: It is. It's kinda the same, you know? It depends. Festivals are just always hectic, and there's an added sense of dread, I feel like, with a festival, because you're dealing with a lot of- no soundcheck, getting up on the stage where a sound guy or monitor guy, just doesn't wanna deal with your shit. Basically, he's like, "I've done this 16 times today, I'm gonna do it 60 times more, and I have a whole weekend of it. Just get up there and play it." So, that's a little rough. Things are usually broken by the time you get up there and play, and those kinds of pitfalls. But you know, regular venue type stuff, like, it has its own issues, you know? But, yeah, the stress is always there, and there's something- will always go wrong that will be a constant succubus of time.

S: Yeah, right right. I saw Jawbreaker in Chicago for Riot Fest, and as soon as they come out, they opened it with Boxcar, which is like the song everybody knows. The place goes bonkers. And Blake, the lead singer and guitar player, steps on his pedal, and it doesn't work. It's like, "This is our big return in front of this massive audience," and he was like- you could see him looking over at the bass player like, "Isn't this so typically us?"

F: That's typically everybody. Yeah, it has to go like that, you know? And it's not a matter of will it happen? It's just a matter of when. When's it gonna go wrong?

S: It's more about how you react to it happening, because you know it's gonna happen.

F: Yeah, you'd like to think that no one else knows, but everybody knows. You know what I mean? Everybody knows that it's happening.

S: You're like, "Oh, dear."

F: There's definitely been times where, like- and it's usually when you plan out this huge entrance into something, or like, you know, like, "Oh, we're really gonna psyche the crowd up by like- we're gonna have the curtains open and we're gonna go 1 2 3 and right into it!" And that's when the kick drum pedal will break, or something of that nature. You count into silence, basically. It's like, "Alright." Takes you down a couple of notches.

S: When we talk about, in sports, we talk a lot about places like Fenway Park, and the ghosts of the people that have played there before, like Babe Ruth played there, and all these- Ted Williams and all that. When you play a venue, a famous venue, do you feel that? It might not be ghosts, necessarily, but that sense of history of, "Whoa, we're playing this place right now."

F: There's definitely, yeah. There's definitely moments like that. It's funny. I recently went to go see the Queen movie, right? And for the first half, I was like, "This is a dramatization, I don't know if I like this," and then the last 20 minutes are basically centralized around their triumphant show at Live Aid at Wembley Stadium.

S: Yeah, iconic performance.

F: Iconic, yeah. And I feel like, you don't really get to see that a lot in like, you know, movies about music, or musicians, where they really- you go through every song. Like, 5, 6 songs, 20 minutes of them performing or lip syncing, rather, you know, performing this. Like, that's crazy. And I started to think to myself, I've had shows where I've played them and been like, "This is a show I'm going to remember for the rest of my life." And you're like, "Wow, that's really awesome." But I've also played Wembley Stadium opening up for Muse one time, and I remember thinking to myself, "This isn't going well."

S: Oh no.

F: So, I got to watch that movie with people playing that venue with a triumphant gig, and you're like, "Oh, I know what that's like, but not there." So, I just hope that my movie doesn't end with my set there. Hopefully, it's somewhere else.

S: You know, you don't think- you just think of being in the moment and then- how do you get a sense of when a show is going the wrong way?

F: Oh, you know.

S: Just the crowd, or is it you, or is it-?

F: Depends on the instance, you know what I mean? I've definitely had some moments where I'm like, "Oh man, this might be the last time anyone ever lets me get up the stage." You know what I mean? So, those where everything you tried just goes wrong, that's never fun. I feel like, the music business or the music industry is rough, because you can go to school, you can go to college, you can get a degree, and you can- say you pass the bar, you'll be a lawyer. Unless you do something really fucked up, you're always gonna be a lawyer, nobody's gonna take that away from you. But as a musician or as an artist, you're only as good as the last thing that you did. You can make, you know, a beautiful piece of art, or like 3 records that are great, but if your last record sucks, or the last couple of shows suck, people are gonna be like, "That guy's a has-been." You know what I mean? So, it's kinda rough. You're always trying to keep that bar high, and that's why when you have a really bad show, you start to really beat yourself up.

S: You're like, "When's the next time I'm gonna be in this city to make this right? When's the next time I'm gonna be in Boston, because I gotta-"

F: "Can't wait for no one to show up."

S: Yeah. All of the sudden, your merch sales just dipped.

F: There you go.

S: "Great, blew it."

F: That's, I think, part of- you don't get into this business because you're confident. Like, you get into this business because you hate yourself on such a pure level, you want something that you can beat yourself up with every night.

S: You need to punish yourself onstage, nightly.

F: Oh definitely. It's like a flogging. It's a lot like drunk Mickey.

S: Yes, right. Yeah. And occasionally, we all go down that same way, you know. Aside from the haunted hotel Ouija board, what's the scariest place you've been? Is there a place that's been super creepy that you're like, "Dang, I don't know if I'm cool with this?"

F: That's a really good question. Especially in My Chem, we would search those types of places out, like, "We've heard this hotel is haunted, or we've heard that this venue is haunted," we'd wanna take a tour. And there was one night where- there's a venue in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The Eagle Ballroom, or the Aragon- I think it's called The Eagle Ballroom. Actually, where it's located is- the venue is here, and it's down the block from the McDonald's where Jeffrey Dahmer used to pick up all his victims. So, it's already got a weird feeling around it. And deep down in the bowels of that venue, there's an old sports club. There's a huge Olympic sized swimming pool, and locker rooms, and all these different things. And so, we would take tours of it, and I remember one time in particular. I've been there a couple of times. One time in particular, after the show, it was late, and they had this, you know, like shower rooms, and backstage rooms down there. And I went to- I was gonna go take a shower and then go back to the bus after the night was over. And I remember hearing, not a commotion, like, what sounded to me like kids running around, laughing, and just like, you know, doing whatever. And I thought to myself, "Alright well, must be cleaning crew or something, brought their kids." Something is weird. And so, like, looked outside, didn't see anybody. And where that shower room is, is next to the Olympic swimming pool that's now closed, and you can kinda go underneath it and check things out, it's really creepy. But I've never seen anything there. And so, looked out there, was nothing. I was like, "This is weird." I ended up taking a shower, blah blah, you know, heard chattering one more time, but couldn't find anybody. Later on, went back to the bus, like, "Yeah, I keep hearing like, kids or something." They're like- you know, I spoke to somebody at the venue, and they said nobody was ever- no kids were there, but in that swimming pool, there was a drowning at one time. So, I don't know. I just got chills all of a sudden, while I was saying that.

S: Yeah, dude, that's what I'm saying! A draft just blew in or something.

F: It's weird, but then again, I don't know, maybe it was a high pitched cleaning crew.

S: You don't know, you have no idea. That's super creepy.

F: It's weird.

S: But there's something great about being scared in that thrilling way. Not scared in a real life or death way, but in a like, "Whoa, what's- this is kinda weird." There's something about that rush.

F: It's unsettling, yeah. I do enjoy that. I really enjoyed it until my children got old enough to realize that scaring people is funny. And my daughters, especially my daughter Cherry, she's 8 years old now, but she loves to scare people. And she'll like hide behind doors and jump out at you, and I'm now at an age where I think I might have a heart attack at some point. Now, I really hate it.

S: "I've survived rock and roll, I need to survive my 8 year olds."

F: Survived the troupe of ghost children at The Eagle Ballroom, now I come home and die trying to put you to bed.

S: The kids are at an age where Halloween is like, prime time. I know in my house, with my son, it's like Halloween is a big deal.

F: They love it, yeah.

S: Do you go big?

F: I do. It's actually my birthday, too.

S: Oh, no kidding.

F: Yeah, so.

S: Oh, cool.

F: That's my favorite holiday, and my kids have actually now adopted it as their favorite holiday, too. I keep saying, "Isn't it so much better than Christmas? Especially when you get Dad something really good for it?"

S: "Everybody dresses up for my birthday, that's how good this is."

F: Exactly, we all celebrate. But yeah, no, it's a big deal at our house.

S: Do you have a best costume?

F: I mean, I'm not trying to brag, but I'm pretty good at the costuming. I've perfected it over the years. I had a slump when I was young, about 3 or 4 years where I was just Freddy Krueger. I had the same costume for 3 or 4 years. And then, somebody woke me up a bit, and then I started to get a little bit more inventive with things. This past year, I actually had a working birthday. I had a working holiday, so I did have a costume in mind, but I didn't get to dress up, which was really depressing for me. But last year, I was Don Mattingly, and I really pulled it off, really well. I was Donnie Baseball. And the year before that I was Sadness.

S: Do you go 'stache?

F: No, I didn't. I did 'stache, and then I did the party in the back.

S: Yeah, great, that's awesome. Donnie Baseball is a legend.

F: Yes, absolutely. Especially around here.

S: Oh yeah, you're right in it for sure. Did you record an album in a mansion in LA?

F: Yes, kind of.

S: It sounds creepy as hell to me.

F: Yes, it was. That actually was supposedly haunted as well. I heard things- alright, so, I'll move backwards. So, what we did was we lived in, and wrote the record, in the Paramour House in LA. It's up in the hills somewhere. And it's basically, yeah, like a haunted mansion. We did some recordings there, but none that made it to the actual record. The record that we were making at the time was called The Black Parade. Where I lived was, there was the main house, was say like, kinda long like this way, and then there was a pool outside, and there was, like, a spire that you kinda do like a circular stairway up to, and that's where I stayed. In that room-

S: Which isn't creepy. Not at all. "I slept up here in this perched thing."

F: I was perched in the spire!

S: You're like, "That's the one I want."

F: Yeah, exactly. I guess, yeah, I was really looking for an experience, you know. But the story goes that Merle Haggard stayed in that room at some point, and met, what he claimed to be, a ghost. And it was a lady ghost, and apparently he wrote- whenever he wrote songs up in that room, in the spire room, she would come and visit him and they would harmonies together. And so, that was my room. I never saw anybody, but I did hear things in the walls, which I kind of assumed were raccoons. But maybe it was lady raccoons that had a really good voice. I don't know!

S: There could be a lot of things creaking, or I don't know.

F: Could've been Merle. I don't know!

S: Right, right. Which could explain why the record did so well, too, I mean, you've got other forces getting in.

F: This is possible. There were a lot of forces. See, I was not the only one that had an experience though, in that house. I know Mikey and Gerard- Mikey had a room that he refused to sleep in, and he actually ended up sleeping on Gerard's floor for a long time. We were in that house for months, and no one really had a great time. I don't know.

S: That's awesome.

F: Yeah. It was a cool experience, though.

S: That feels like a whole other different- I mean, things happened for My Chem pretty quickly, it seems like. In the span of a few years, it went from like, 0 to 100.

F: Yeah, and in the very beginning it was pretty- yeah.

S: That's a lot different than, like-

F: Pretty intense.

S: -getting some studio time and going to cut an album as quick as you can, versus, "Alright, we're gonna take up this house."

F: Yeah, well-

S: "Move in all of our equipment."

F: Not to sound like an old fuddy-duddy, but like, times were different back then. The budgets were- you were able to have those months to kinda sit in a haunted house and write. And I'm glad- I feel like that was the tail end of that in the music industry, and we were very happy to be a part of it.

S: Oh yeah, you caught that tail end there. "Let's just blow it out!"

F: When we were kids, Metallica was holed up in, what I imagine was like, pool cabanas, for years, you know what I mean? Writing records and stuff like that. So, yeah, we caught the tail tail end. We got a haunted house for a couple months.

S: How do you know when a song is done, when you're writing it?

F: A better person than I can be quoted as saying, "You don't ever finish a record, you just relent." You have to kinda just be like, "I have to let go." You know what I mean? "There's nothing more I can do that will make this better, I'm just going to make it worse." And I feel like that's, you know, a lot of art. There's- you can always do more. Should you do more? Probably not, you know? But then again, there's some songs where it just needs to be just a very succinct, you know, the simpler the better. But it's hard to see the forest for the trees sometimes.

S: Yeah, that makes sense. What about the difference between writing- I mean, I'm assuming you just sort of always write, but writing for yourself, and then versus writing with a band. Is there one you prefer? I'm sure they're both great in their own ways but-

F: Yeah, they're so different. That's the thing. I've always been a fan of that collaborative effort. I like that when you're in a band of friends, people that you respect musically, of course, but also that you get along with, it's fun to try to impress each other, and be like, "Look at this thing I came up with!" That inspires someone else with something else, and then we just kind of make this crazy Scooby sandwich out of it. It just kind of layers up, you know? And that's really fun. The thing about writing for yourself and just as a solo artist, is that there's a sense of accomplishment because nothing makes the record that you didn't come up with on your own. You know what I mean? If it didn't come from your head or your heart, it's not there. And the other great thing about it is that sometimes, certain ideas take a little while to flesh out, and if you can't immediately make someone else see the potential in something, it's able to be kind of bulldozed over, if you're working with a bunch of different writers, you know. They'll be like, "Oh well, that's not working. We'll get back to it," you never really get back to it. But if you write something, even if it sucks, but you see potential in it, you can chase that to the end of the year, and that's really cool.

S: Yeah, that's gotta be a very, sort of, I don't know if it's democratic, or just the idea of working with people and delicately, "I don't know if I'm feeling that." Which I'm sure-

F: It's hard, man. I've been in both situations where somebody was like, "Yo, that fucking sucks. And I don't like your face."

S: "Alright, that was kinda rough. Maybe we've been in this mansion too long."

F: Possibly. But I've also been in situations where people are really kind about it, but even when they're so kind, you still feel like a piece of shit when someone doesn't like what you wrote. It's hard, you know. I feel like, the older you get, maybe, the more able you are to deal with that type of rejection. Be like, "Oh well, I'll get 'em next time," or like, "Oh, I'm gonna take that home, I'm gonna really work on it really hard, and bring it back, and they're gonna understand later on." But part of you also is like, "Fuck that guy!"

S: "Screw you, dude. Fucking fine, I'll save it for my own shit."

F: Exactly, yeah.

S: How do you know, too, when a song- if you're writing, how do you know if this is just for me, or this is for them, this is for- this feels more like a Leathermouth song? I mean, granted, there's obviously huge differences in the music that you're making there, but-

F: You know, sometimes it just speaks to you on a level. It depends, too, I feel like, if you're writing lyrics to it, could you see yourself kinda handing those over, and letting someone else emote with those emotions? Would it feel contrived if somebody else sang your words? You know? Or if you're like, "I just had music here, I don't know what to do," you know, vocally, or something like that. That's a good one to pass off. But usually for me, I kinda jump from project to project, and I think I start- I write within that project. I don't ever write a song like, "I'm gonna hold onto this because this is gonna be good for that one."

S: This is what you're focused on, so this is sort of where your head space is.

F: Yeah. And if I hit a block within that project, I move to the next project, and I start writing there. So, I'm not ever just writing in a broad stroke where I'm like, "This could be for this, this could be for this." It's always like, "Alright, I'm focusing on this one, or I'm focusing on this one."

S: Yeah. So, new projects. You're used to the music world, but you're dipping your toes into a whole new venture.

F: Yeah.

S: Of podcasting.

F: Podcasting. It's strange to me. I was like, I didn't know really what a podcast was for a very long time. I was like, "It's people just talking into a recorder? Alright."

S: Yeah, you just kinda sit and talk for a little while and then say, "Here you go."

F: That's it, yeah! I was like, "Why do people listen to that?" You know? And then I actually started to listen to them, and I was like, "Oh alright, I get it now." And it just so happens that a few of my friends, my friend John Hambone and my friend Shaun Simon, who were in a band I did very early on in my career called Pencey Prep, we just were looking for an excuse, I guess, to hang out and talk. And we, like, well, we go to lunch every couple of weeks and bullshit, and if we were to record this, I think people would get a little bit more insight into other things. And Shaun, of course, from music stuff, branched out and he started writing comics, he ended up writing The True Lives of the Fabulous Killjoys with Gerard, he wrote Art Ops, and he's working on something new called Wizard Beach, but he brings in kind of a different realm to the podcast. We could talk until we're blue in the face about writing music and touring, and stuff like that, but I feel like his venture into writing comics and actually starting to write prose and stuff like that, and trying to write a novel, is a fun conversation to have about, you know like, creativity, and inspiration, things like that. So, we've been having a really good time. The first two episodes are out, the third episode is coming out in a couple of days. It's called Casual Interactions, and it's one of my favorite projects I've ever worked on because it's just so much fun.

S: Yeah, well you need- especially when you get older and you have kids, and responsibilities, it's hard to figure out time to hang with your buddies.

F: It is! It really is.

S: But now when you make it work, you know like, work.

F: That's my advice. I feel like if you wanna hang out with your friends and drink, turn a recorder on and then you can tell your wife you're working.

S: "It's been a week! We got a podcast we gotta get out!"

F: "It's work, I have to!"

S: "I have to do this right now!"

F: Yes, yeah.

S: She's like, "Yeah, but at 8:30 on Friday night or whatever, at the bar?" Like, "Yes!"

F: There you go. Right now, if there wasn't a camera on us, we'd be fucked off. "Oh, I'm going to a haunted bar with my friend Seton and have some beers."

S: This is exactly what I've- so, we me and Brendon are sitting at a bar in Houston, right? Houston?

B: Yeah.

S: And we're just drinking and trying to figure out a show to do, or whatever, and getting kind of in our cups a little bit, and, "Well, I really like interviewing bands in bars," and then we're like, "What if we made a travel show out of it and just did-" Like, because you guys were saying you travel all over the place.

F: Yeah.

S: James from Against Me!, anytime I'm going to a new city, I'll throw out on Twitter or whatever like, "Hey, what's the best place, a bar, in Minneapolis," or whatever, and he's got 17.

F: He definitely knows. Oh my god.

S: He's got 70 of like, "Oh, make sure you get the burger here, and the burrito there," or something, you know, he's all over the place with it. I'm like, "God, you guys are just a limitless fountain of knowledge for travel!"

F: See, Bowman's a bad influence for me, though, because when he sends me stuff, it's like music stores I have to go, or record stores, and it's like, "Man, just kill my bank account."

S: "How am I shipping this new stack back to my house?"

F: Yeah.

S: Yeah, and actually, on the way down, I nerded out a little bit on your guitar rig.

F: Oh, really?

S: Yeah. You know that equip board, there's like a website.

F: Oh okay, alright.

S: That, I think it's all unofficial, but they'll do- it's got everybody's. And like, so you're on there, and it's got all of the guitars that you've been seen using, pedals, and sometimes it's just a random picture from a fan on the stage, and it's like, "I think that's-"

F: I love that.

S: "-a Big Muff," or whatever, you know, I don't think you use one of those, but Swollen Pickle.

F: Yes! I do use a Swollen Pickle.

S: Yeah yeah yeah.

F: I've actually passed that along, though, to my brother-in-law, who uses it in the band. He plays guitar in my solo project, so he uses that a lot, and I actually ended up getting an older, like 70s, Tall Font Big Muff, that I've been using, and I actually finished a record 3 weeks ago, and it's on there a bunch. So, I'm pretty excited about that.

S: Yeah, right on. I can get in that stuff. I'll just spend all day on the internet looking at freaking pedals and stuff. Like, I don't even- I mean, I play, but I don't ever play out. It's just in my home, you know?

F: That's fine.

S: And my wife is like, "Man, that's a lot of pedals for a dude who doesn't even record music." And I'm like, "Yeah, but-"

F: "That's my tone, honey!"

S: "You get these sounds!" Yeah, I'm like, "Babe, I'm trying to find my tone." Yeah.

F: "That's why I haven't played out yet, I haven't found the right tone! You're interrupting me!"

S: Yeah, I'm like, "I'm writing songs, I'm creating in here! Just leave me alone." Yeah. But you can get lost in that stuff.

F: Oh, definitely. Definitely. And that's the thing too, is like, you know, each one is different, man. They're all like snowflakes, dude. Like, "Oh yeah, this is a distorter but this is a fuzz, and this is an overdrive and this is a preamp."

S: Yeah, and then dialing each one in when you plug in another.

F: Oh man, and then you switch the order!

S: Oh my gosh, you switch the order and it's a whole new world.

F: Yeah, definitely.

S: No, it's crazy. We just moved about 4 years ago, we moved in to a new house, and it was built in 1880.

F: Oh.

S: So, in New England, everything's old. A lot of stuff is really old. And so, we got one room that I can sorta, I call it the music room, where it's set up. I got my guitars in there, amps, all that stuff, it's cool. But when we were- that was one of the main selling points of the house for me, was like, "Oh, I'd have space to just sorta do this." Not that I need it, necessarily, but it's nice to have it. So, we're closing on the house, and the real estate agent is like, "Alright, cool, so, inspection was good," running through all of that stuff, "The playscape is gonna stay, you know about the garage, it needs to be fixed, there's some stuff upstairs they need to take out, and of course you know about the dollhouse." And we're like, "Uh, no? What dollhouse?" And they're like, "The dollhouse in your basement." I'm like, "What dollhouse in the basement?" She's like, "You didn't notice the-" I'm like, "No!" She's like, "Oh, well, for the last 5 owners, this dollhouse has been in the basement and it sort of comes in the house, it stays in there. No one's ever removed it." I was like, "Nope. Forget it, I don't want the house. Forget it." That's- now, there's nothing inherently weird about a dollhouse

F: Oh, yes there is!

S: But when they say it like that.

F: Oh yeah.

S: Like, "Oh, and of course, you know about the dollhouse, right?" "No, what dollhouse?"

F: That's a deal ender right there.

S: Yeah.

F: Fuck, god.

S: Like get the- so, then, I started developing this whole theory that what happens is, if you do something in the house, or somehow disrespect it or something, or get on the bad side of whatever spirits are living there, you're shrunken down into a miniature person.

F: And then you live in the dollhouse, yeah.

S: You're doomed to live in the dollhouse for eternity.

F: Oh man. You know what movie really freaked me out as a kid? It was Cat's Eye, with that little elf guy who, kinda like, goes in their room and he has that little knife, and he tries to steal the breath of the little kids? But I feel like if you live in a dollhouse, like, that you probably have to steal child breath.

S: I feel like I've seen the cover of that VHS tape.

F: Oh, it's so fucked up, dude.

S: Yeah. Is that your favorite horror movie? Are you a horror movie guy?

F: I do like them. I do. I wouldn't say connoisseur. I would say kinda? But that- here's the thing. I really bonded with my dad. Of course, my dad was a drummer, so we bonded over music. But the other thing that we bonded over was horror movies. So, like, you know, Vincent Price and stuff like that, and then I kinda convinced him to show me other stuff that I wasn't' supposed to see yet, and we would just, on the weekends, we would just watch horror movies constantly, and listen to records. So, yeah, that's- yeah. I remember, but like, certain ones leave that impression on you, you know.

S: Definitely. Some of them just leave the impression because they're weird, some are gory, some just scare the shit out of you.

F: Yeah. What's your favorite? If you have one.

S: Well, you know, as a kid, I really- it's kind of basic to say but Halloween really scared me, actually.

F: Okay, yeah.

S: Just because there was something about the face, and you know what? It really does, truly-

F: Shatner, man. He's terrifying.

S: -terrify me. Yeah, he was a scary dude. Random acts of violence really scare me. You know? Like, that's something that actually- that movie, The Strangers?

F: Oh, yes! I love that movie. I won't go see the second one.

S: No!

F: Because I think they ruined it. But that movie is terrifying.

S: I got into- I got about 20 minutes into that movie and I looked at my wife, and I said, "I think we just made a huge mistake. I don't think that we should be watching this." Because it just, there's something about- they're sitting there, there's this young couple, they're working out, "Should we stay together, should we not?" and the whole time, there's these people in the room with them, and they have no idea.

F: No idea, yeah.

S: Holy sh-. That's scary!

F: I saw that movie in theaters, right. It was like, a midnight showing, right, because I wanted to see it really bad. The night it was coming out, was maybe a Thursday night, or something like that. So, we went to the midnight showing, me and my wife and a friend of ours, and we're in there, and all of a sudden this lady rolls in a baby carriage, and sits down in the front row, and it's packed. I mean, it's packed. I'm like, "That's really, kinda weird. Odd, but whatever." So, the movie starts, and all of a sudden the baby wakes up, and is terrified and it's like, "It's fucking midnight! Why am I here?" And so, the baby starts screaming, and everybody's like, "Yo, what are you doing here?" And she stands up and goes, "Deal with it!" And so, the guy behind me goes, "Put yo titty in its mouth!" And it was the greatest thing I've ever heard at a movie in my entire life. It was, actually, almost better than the movie.

S: You never get that experience-

F: You never get that experience ever again.

S: "Put your titty in its mouth."

F: "Put your titty in its mouth!" I mean, could've worked, I don't know.

S: That's great. And that's The Strangers.

F: That was The Strangers, yeah.

S: That's what you took away from that movie.

F: That baby, yeah. Yeah.

S: Wow, that's great. That's a serious experience. That's what you get at a midnight showing of a horror movie.

F: That's true. This is true.

S: You know? Yeah. So, let's see. You have a podcast coming out. What else is going on now? You did Frank Iero and the Patience was last year. You released something last year but the- two years ago was your last album.

F: Yeah, so, two years ago was the last full length, and then we did an EP last year, finished recording the new record, like I said about, 3 weeks ago, and that will be out, I believe- we haven't announced it yet, so I'm thinking it's-

S: Is this news? Is this breaking news?

F: We're breaking news.

S: Is this an exclusive?

F: Yes. It might be wrong, though, I don't know.

S: You never know.

F: Maybe April or May, I think is what we're discussing right now.

S: Do you have to shop labels and all that?

F: It's strange. We're starting a new relationship with a new label, I'm pretty excited about it. But again, it's all new, and the papers should be signed this week, so I probably shouldn't say anything else. Unless Mickey has anything to do with it, I don't know.

S: So, about two years ago, I won't get into it too much, but I have to ask.

F: Yes yes yes.

S: Like, two years ago, anniversary of The Black Parade.

F: Oh!

S: Everybody kinda went bonkers thinking about a reunion. Right?

F: That did happen. Here's the thing. Well, was it two years ago?

S: Well, it would've been 2006, did that come out?

F: Right. Okay, oh, it's 2018, yeah you're right. 2016.

S: So, it was like two years ago, ish.

F: So, what happened was, we wanted to do a 10 year anniversary release of it. And we had some demos left over, and songs that didn't make the record, and we're like, "Oh cool, we'll put it all together, and-" Every year, we meet and we have a barbecue kinda thing, and we'll- that's like, we'll have the barbecue, the kids'll hang out, and then we'll discuss business for the next year, basically. And so, we're like, "That'd be really cool. We should do a little teaser trailer for it." And so, we said, "Alright, that's what we'll do." And we told the lady what we wanted, and they made this trailer, and released it, and all of a sudden we're like, "Oh wait... Everyone's real confused."

S: "We're just doing an anniversary release. Not a tour."

F: Yeah. And then we had to come out and be like, "Oh... That was- we were just excited but..."

S: "At the barbecue, it made a lot more sense."

F: Yeah!

S: "It was much more clear when defined at the barbecue."

F: "It was so much clearer then!" But here's the thing, we were always a theatrical band, so like, we wanted to continue in that fashion, but when you're not a band any longer, it's probably harder to do that. We didn't realize.

S: I'm always fascinated that there's business. Bands will say like, they breakup, or they're not together, they go on hiatus, whatever the right wording is. But they're still always business to be done. You'll read- I like reading music biographies, and it'll be like, "The worst breakup ever: Van Halen still has to get together once a year to sign papers." You know? And you're like, "Oh my god! That must be so crazy."

F: Especially if you hate each other. That's gotta be really awkward.

S: Oh, it's gotta be super weird. So, well, 2020 is coming up.

F: Uh huh.

S: That would be another anniversary for you guys.

F: For what?

S: I don't know if you're- isn't Danger Days-

F: Was that 2010?

S: I think so.

F: Alright.

S: I think that's 2010. I'm just giving you the heads up.

F: Just another opportunity to disappoint people like that.

S: "Sorry." Is that, sort of, there's gotta be a blessing and a curse in that pressure on you guys.

F: Yeah.

S: Like, people want you to.

F: Right.

S: Which is really great and you have that option. But then they also expect you to, which is sort of like, "Eh, just... Let us figure this out."

F: Right. I imagine it's a lot like the holidays, you know, and you go to like, your family and they're like, "You should marry that Dennis. You should go back to school." And you're like, "Ah yeah, that's not really, you know, I'm doing- I got this thing happening." And they're like, "Yeah, but that was so nice when you- You could've been-"

S: "What about that nice thing?"

F: Yeah, exactly. The weird thing about it is, is that we all still get along really well. It's just that we're kinda focused on other aspects and other projects. And I feel like when the band- when we knew the band was over, we didn't wanna do the hiatus thing, because I feel like that leaves this weird open ended discussion of, "When is it gonna come back? When's it gonna come back?" And you'd just be hounded by that, and you can't really focus on anything else you're doing, because you're just going to be hounded by these questions of that. Little did we know, that we'd still have it. But we thought, like, "Alright, well, if we're going to end it, we're gonna put a bullet in its head and end it the way that we started it." You know, for all the right reasons. As far as, you know, it being- it's crazy to me that the band is almost bigger now than it ever was when we were doing it, you know? And I feel like that's really interesting, and really flattering that it's taken on a life of its own, and we've been passed on to younger generations. That's how I found out about bands, you know.

S: Sure, yeah.

F: You know, older siblings or older friends. They'd be like, "Listen to this tape, this is the real shit. You're listening to some stuff that you think is cool, but it's not. Like, listen to this." And that's rad, man. I love being in a band like that. It's strange to me when I'm touring currently on a project, and say you get a cover of a magazine for that project, and then two months later, you're on the cover of the same magazine as a legendary artist. I'm just like, "Oh shit, that's real weird."

S: "I didn't get that old yet."

F: Yeah!

S: "I can't be a legend!"

F: Eh, kind of.

S: "How could I be a legend?" You know what, man? That's what I love, though, about people-

F: Or- not legendary, I'm sorry, "classic artist."

S: Oh, a classic.

F: I don't want everyone to go- yeah.

S: When I first started in radio, one of my first jobs was at a classic rock station, and they were playing Nirvana and stuff like that, and I'm like, "Hold up. What?"

F: That's scary.

S: "How is that classic rock? It's been 10 years!"

F: It is, man.

S: That's it.

F: I know.

S: I love that there's people our age, because we're pretty close. I'm 40.

F: Okay. 37.

S: And so, we- a lot of times, my friends are like, "Dang, you still going to shows, or whatever, doing this?" And I'm like, "Yeah, but everybody that I'm going to see is my age."

F: Right, yeah.

S: You know?

F: Yeah, exactly.

S: It's not like, there's a lot of us that still- it's not let go, but it's just who you are in a way.

F: Yeah.

S: Now, I'm not a musician or anything like that, but I'm still so into all of the same things from when I was 16, somehow. I'm just in an adult about it now.

F: I hear you. It's strange to me too, like, a lot of those bands that we both grew up listening to are kinda having this resurgence, and new fans are coming in, and it's really awesome to see those bands get their just dues, you know?

S: And you're gonna be in that loop.

F: We'll see, I don't know. I mean, that's nuts. Here's the thing, you gotta think about this, right? The last show that the Misfits ever played, right? Not now, but-

S: Not the new.

F: Yeah. But like, when they were doing it, I mean, how many people did they play to? 800 maybe? Like, that was a lot. I know they played Irving Plaza at some point. So, the cap on that now is like, 11, but back then, I think it was less. Let's say 1,000 people. That's huge numbers for punk rock, right? I know about punk rock, that's crazy.

S: Yeah.

F: What did they get paid for it? I don't know, I mean, could they have gotten 5 grand? That's a lot, that'd be a lot back then. Now, they're headlining Prudential Center.

S: The Prudential Center.

F: What the fuck?! That's crazy!

S: And they'll only do it for a minimum.

F: A minimum! Like- My god.

B: That was a ride.

S: Wow, that was a rollercoaster ride of-

B: Talk about something.

S: He's a cool dude, man.

B: He's funny, too.

S: What a really nice guy.

B: He seems like a prankster. You know what I mean? He seems like he would be a guy that would be fun at a party.

S: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think he had a pretty good time. I think he had a pretty good time. And you know, he- one of the things that I love about interviewing people now, especially bands like that, a lot of these guys are my age, and we're sort of all in this same stage of life where we're all married, we're all having kids, we all have families, but still go to shows and stuff.

B: Yeah, maintaining the other.

S: Yeah. And I love relating to people on that level, where Frank is talking about- we could both talk about taking out kids to soccer practice, and he's like, "Oh yeah, the other parents will drive you nuts," or something, you know. He's right in that same space, which is pretty cool. And that helps me whenever I start thinking to myself sometimes, where I'm like, "I don't know, I'm 40 years old, maybe I should move on." But I just can't, you know? It's just part of who you are, it's just part of your DNA, I think.

B: Yeah, just keep it in balance.

S: Yeah. Like, I'm not stage diving anymore. But I still like going to shows. I still like watching bands, and people like Frank Iero help me maintain that, and feel like, "Yes. See? It's not just me. I'm not always the old guy there. There's other people. They're all holding on." I love it.

B: I'll get there someday.

S: Yeah, you will. It happens.

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