Destruction of SodomTim Mackie and Jon Collins founded The Bible Project in 2014. The stated mission was, to “help people experience the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus.” They describe the project this way:We believe the Bible is a profound and very beautiful book that's telling one complete story from beginning to end. But it's also a very long book, and that means it's often confusing, and it's just intimidating overall. So this project is all about exploring the entire Biblical narrative but breaking them up into short 5-minute animated videos that help you understand the structure and themes of the Bible. And we're going to do this in two ways. So first, we're going to go through book by book because we believe each book of the Bible has been given a unique design; that is, the author has given it a structure and a flow of thought by placing in key stories or poems and so on. So, before you dive into the details of any book of the Bible, which is really easy to get lost, we're gonna help you back up and get a picture of the design and how it fits into the overall story. Secondly, we're going to take major themes in the Bible, and we're going to trace those themes from the beginning to the end of scripture. So these are things like sacrifices, the messiah, heaven and earth.((Tim Mackie & Jon Collins, What is The Bible Project?; Apr 7, 2014; timeline 0:16 -1:14))Early on, it was quite good and helpful. In just under ten years, they have grown to having over five million subscribers worldwide in over 200 countries.((Statistics from “Our Story” on the About Us page of The Bible Project website)) However, in recent years there have been some very troubling things in Tim Mackie’s public teaching and interviews which I have commented on in A Subversion of Reality and the Contemplative Subversion of Mind and Summary of Concerns with Tim Mackie (as of August 2023).There also seems to be an attempt to mitigate the violence in the Old Testament and the Book of Revelation as we find in Book of Revelation and the Old Testament Tim Mackie and Non-Violence Interviews/With Dr. Tim Mackie, John Mark Comer, & Josh Porter. John Mark Comer, former pastor of Bridgetown Church in Portland, Oregon, hosts the program with Josh Porter, a pastor at a Vancouver, Washington church, and the guest is Tim Mackie of The Bible Project.Open Theist Gregory Boyd also comes up in this discussion. I will mainly examine statements from Tim Mackie that seem to reflect some of Boyd’s views as well as other troubling ideas expressed by Mackie.Warlike Imagery is SubversionFrom about minute 10 through minute 45 of the Book of Revelation and the Old Testament, Mackie proposes that the warlike imagery in the Book of Revelation is about how Jesus conquers by giving up his life on the cross; therefore, the blood imagery in Revelation chapter 19 is the blood from the cross. So, Revelation is actually non-violent.Mackie continues with the idea that the book of Revelation, in reality, is subverting the warlike stories in the Old Testament. Porter asks Mackie if the imagery in Revelation is a subversion of violence, then how do we deal with the violence in the Old Testament? Most of the following content is how Mackie addresses it.After a discussion of events before the Flood, around minute 46:45, Mackie states that the Flood did not change man (which is true), but according to him, it does show a change in God. So, God decides not to destroy the world, but instead, he will set a plan of redemption in motion. Though Mackie does not say that this is a Plan B, it is strongly implied.However, we see from Scripture that from eternity, God had a plan of redemption, “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8). The idea that God had to switch plans is implied (the aftermath of the Flood “changed” God, and implied in other statements from Mackie and Comer). This idea would line up with Boyd’s view.However, God is immutable; that is, God does not move from moment to moment in time and does not change. He is not static because he is the dynamic “I AM” but his will and knowledge are who God is, they are his nature (as are all his divine attributes), and therefore are eternal and without change since God is perfect (complete and lacking and needing nothing).The “subversion of violence” idea undermines God’s wrath on sin. More on that later.God CompromisesIn discussing the military campaigns against Canaan in the Old Testament, Mackie states several times that God “compromises.” When God sends Joshua or others to conquer the pagan lands, he is “making a compromise” in doing this, according to Mackie.Mackie then refers to the latest book by Greg Boyd and how Boyd makes these points. Mackie makes this startling statement around minute 55:“God is allowing himself to be depicted as a kind of God that he actually isn’t by the Old Testament authors because of their limited horizons and point of view.”This idea is apparently found in Boyd’s book and reveals some alarming ideas about God and how Scripture was written.Recasting God as a compromiser undermines his character and power. God does things out of mercy and shows compassion, but that is not because he must make concessions in order to make his plan work.The warfare in Canaan was God’s judgment. He used Joshua to bring this about, but it was God’s judgment (wrath) on sin. It is true that not all actions of violence in the Old Testament are sanctioned by God because God did not command all of those acts. But the ones God did commission were not a compromise. He was revealing and unleashing his judgment.God does not allow himself to be viewed as something he is not; that would go against God’s nature. In fact, God is always clear on who he is in his revelations to men. If what Mackie and Comer claim is true, that would mean that God is deceptive and chooses to allow Israel to see him as a warlike tribal god (that phrase is used) instead of who he really is.The account of the Exodus refutes Mackie’s and Boyd’s idea that God lets himself be seen as a type of god he is not. God states several times that what he is doing to Egypt is so that the Pharaoh and Israel will know who he is (Exodus 7:5, 17; 8:10, 14:4, 18, 25). Either God is lying in these Exodus accounts and pretending to be someone he is not to suit the “limited views” of the OT author/s, or he is revealing who he really is.The “limited point of view” of the OT authors would not affect what they wrote for the biblical account since their words were God-breathed. Whether personally limited or not, when writing words from God, their views did not “limit” or affect them. This idea is reminiscent of people like Peter Enns, who claims that the biblical authors were writing about God as they viewed him (as opposed to writing revelation from God about who he is). This matter relates to the Holy Spirit's inspiration of the biblical text. Mackie states in another video that the words are from God, but that claim sounds hollow in light of statements from Mackie like those in this interview.Although Mackie brings out some good points about Jesus as the lion and the lamb and points out other interesting themes in Revelation from Old Testament books, this is overshadowed by his other statements.Troubling StatementsStarting at minute 50, Mackie makes these comments (unless I note any from Comer):- God gives up his “ideal” in order to “accommodate.” - In order to bring redemption to the world, God must “put up” with humans. This principle governs the accounts of violence where God commissions Israel to go into Canaan and fight. - The Israelites, most of the time, “just think that He is their national tribal god.” - Comer states we need to apply this hermeneutic to the violence and war stories in the Bible and Mackie agrees. - Mackie (at minute 52:36) refers to Greg Boyd’s “recent book” (I think this is Cross Vision) and that it is helpful in explaining these views. From what I know of Boyd’s book, what Mackie has been expressing about Revelation is what Boyd believes. As an Open Theist, Boyd believes that God has to work things out with man because he cannot always carry out his will (due to man’s free will). Boyd also does not have the view that Scripture is God’s direct revelation to the authors. - Mackie: “We need to learn this category: Just because God was with David and David did violence doesn’t mean that this was God’s perfect will” (Mackie starts this line of thinking earlier, around minute 10). - Mackie states that God would not let David build his Temple due to the blood David had spilled in wars. This shows, according to Mackie, that God was not sanctioning David’s battles. - “God will allow himself to engage in things that are not becoming of his ideal purpose or character because he is committed to this person,” states Mackie in relation to David. - In addressing the account of God’s directive to Saul to kill the Amalekites, Mackie states that one could view this as “God exacting vengeance.” Or, offers Mackie, one could apply Boyd’s belief and consider this as God allowing himself to be “viewed as a kind of god that he actually isn’t because of the limited horizons and point of view” of the OT authors. - Mackie says he is reconsidering these violent narratives in light of ideas from Boyd about how God accommodated himself and compromised on his will, voicing that Boyd has good points.Does God not allowing David to build his Temple mean that God did not direct David to wage those battles? No! It means that God himself said that he wanted a man of peace to build his Temple. David was a man of war, and God used him for that, but for his Temple, God desired a man of peace (Solomon) to build it.Moreover, David had committed murder when he gave his directive that Bathsheba’s husband be put in the front lines of battle so he would die (2 Samuel 11:13-15). When David explains why he is not going to build the Temple, he seems to point to both factors – that David was a warrior and that David had shed blood (in having Bathsheba’s husband killed):But God said to me, `You are not to build a house for my Name, because you are a warrior and have shed blood.’ (1 Chronicles 28:3 NIV)To imply that God was not actually willing for David (or Joshua) to wage any battles goes against the plain meaning of the text when it states that God directed Joshua and David to do these things. God does this as well with Moses, Gideon, and others. It also goes against God’s character to claim God was making “concessions” so he could get what he wanted. That idea portrays a weak God.The so-called “limited viewpoint of the OT authors” was addressed in the previous section. A biblical author is not limited when writing God-breathed words because the author of those words, God, is not limited. God is more than able to communicate truths to his people, whom he created, no matter what their limitations might be.Boyd’s God in the Old TestamentGreg Boyd’s book Cross Vision, which appears to be what Mackie was referencing, is a follow-up to his book, Crucifixion of the Warrior God. Boyd is not only an Open Theist but tries to explain the violence in the Old Testament by saying that God “accommodated” the culture because the Jews could not grasp who God was.In My Disappointed Review of Greg Boyd’s “Cross Vision” | A Pilgrim in Narnia, Boyd’s book is reviewed by a fan of Boyd’s who, although he does not agree with Open Theism, finds Boyd interesting and stated he has learned a lot from him. However, he is very disappointed with Cross Vision and points out views Boyd holds that he finds alarming:But it is not twisting Boyd to say that God lies about who God is to a people that can’t bear the full reality of God. It isn’t just that we don’t see God fully in the Exodus or the giving of the law or a particular prophetic or worship moment. Do we ever? But that God pulls on a cloak of evil in order to, ultimately, show good. The Bible is intentionally misleading when picturing God as a violent God, not just limited or foggy or that something else is going on textually (though he uses each of these solutions at times).Boyd’s “Open Future”The fact that Mackie thinks Boyd has good ideas on interpreting the Old Testament (and the book of Revelation) is a serious issue. God is “risk-taking” and “adventurous,” according to Boyd. For God to take risks would mean that he does not know what will happen, which is what Open Theists claim. Boyd states God knows all that is logically possible to know. However, the future is not settled and known yet; it is still “open,” so God cannot know the future, only the possibilities, according to Boyd.Answering the objection that God cannot keep his promises if he does not know the future as a certainty, Boyd states:“Whatever happens, God has been anticipating that very possibility from the foundation of the world…God is so smart he does not need to foreknow it as a certainty in order to anticipate it as though it is a certainty.”To say God is “smart” misses the point of who God is. God just is; he is the dynamic and eternal “I AM,” and his knowledge and who he is are one. God, as the creator of time and the universe, is distinct from both time and the universe. God acts in time but is not in time, so there is no “future” for God as there is for time-bound creatures. All time is one for God, a concept probably impossible for humans to grasp totally since we are creatures of time. The future is just part of God’s eternal knowledge, just as the past is.However one may desire to explain God and time, God’s revelation is clear that he knows all the future and has known it from eternity, and we know from many fulfilled prophesies (over 300 alone predicting the Messiah) that God knows the future as a certainty because for him it is not an unknown, unsettled, or “open” future.Boyd’s theology and hermeneutics should not be imitated or applied by a teacher in the church, especially one with such influence.ΩAdditional Recommended Resources((“The Immutability of God,“ Video with Dr. James Dolezal “Divine Immutability,” by Brian Huffling “Neotheism: Orthodox or Neoorthodox? A Theological Response to Greg Boyd” by Norman Geisler (A good article if you cannot read the book listed below, The Battle for God) CANA article, Summary of Concerns with Tim Mackie CANA article, A Subversion of Reality and the Contemplative Subversion of Mind Recommended Books The Battle For God, by Norman Geisler and H. Wayne House The Doctrine of God (NGIM Guide to the Bible) by Norman Geisler and Douglas Potter (The Doctrine of God is a short but meaty book for less than $6 and presents the classic attributes of God with scriptural explanations; there are many books with this title so it’s important to put the authors’ names in the search) All That is In God, by James Dolezal God Without Parts, by James Dolezal is a more philosophical approach and explanation)) Before trusting Christ, Marcia Montenegro was a professional astrologer and was involved in Eastern and New Age practices for many years. Through her ministry, Christian Answers for the New Age, Marcia speaks around the country and on radio and writes on New Age and occult topics. She has a Masters in Religion from Southern Evangelical Seminary, Charlotte, NC, and serves as a missionary with Fellowship International Mission, Allentown, PA. Based in Arlington, VA, she is the mother of an adult son and the author of SpellBound: The Paranormal Seduction of Today’s Kids (Cook, 2006). She is also co-author of Richard Rohr and the Enneagram Secret (MCOI Publishing, 2020) with Don and Joy Veinot You can find her online at: CANA or on Facebook at