#pro endgame

[rogers-carter]

"This male character's choices absolutely demolished this female character and she would be way more likable if it never happened in the first place" is not the flex you think it is.

[velvet4510]

Apparently I’m in the mood for expressing an MCU hot take at this hour, so here goes:

Steve going back in time was NOT a betrayal of his and Bucky’s friendship.

Look, at first glance, I get why Steve’s Endgame ending feels like it’s going against “I’m with you to the end of the line.” Even I had my reservations about it for a while, once my Steggy-shipping heart calmed down from its thrilled palpitations when I first watched the film.

But after giving it a lot of thought, I think in the end, it was for the best that Steve and Bucky went their separate ways, and here’s why.

Once they reunited in the present day, Steve and Bucky’s relationship became extremely codependent, and their entire arc was learning to grow out of that.

We see in Civil War especially how far Steve was willing to go to protect Bucky, and how Bucky became fully dependent on Steve. And remember that Steve had just lost Peggy before finding Bucky again, meaning that Bucky was all he had left of his former 1940s life. The fact that he fought so hard for Bucky is symbolic for his arc, far beyond their friendship. Of course he did it because he loved Bucky, that’s never in doubt. But I also think that he felt an equally strong love for what Bucky represented, which is the life he lost. His clinging to Bucky already showed us that he was unable to truly let go of the 1940s, though he tried. He tried to believe he had let go - Age of Ultron is all about him trying - but Civil War makes it clear that he will never truly belong to the present day.

Same goes for Bucky. Steve was his only reminder of his true self, of who he used to be, of the life he lost. He loved Steve himself, of course, but he also clung to Steve because Steve also represented something beyond just their friendship; he represented the hope for Bucky’s soul. That he was not HYDRA’s monster anymore, that he had a chance of living life as himself again.

The ending of Civil War set the two of them on the path that always inevitably led to what we got from Endgame. Steve and Bucky finally loosened their metaphorical grip on each other; Bucky chose to turn himself over to Wakanda, and Steve let him go. They both acknowledged that Bucky’s need for healing went far beyond Steve. While Steve was his starting point, Steve’s faith the thing that gave him hope for himself, Bucky needed far more work on himself than Steve alone could provide. So they started taking baby steps away from their codependency; Bucky moved to Wakanda and Steve continued with the Avengers. Fans who talk and act as though Steve and Bucky’s lives fully and completely revolve around each other, and each other ONLY, clearly have not actually watched the movies critically.

The narrative always acknowledged that Steve and Bucky’s codependency was not healthy, and that as much as they loved each other, they needed to learn to be their own people, and not be defined only through each other’s eyes.

Which brings us to Endgame. Perhaps the most significant detail about Steve’s final choice is that he canonically told Bucky about it ahead of time. Bucky confirmed this verbally in TFATWS. Steve did NOT return to the 1940s on short notice; he let Bucky know about it. And, on the other side of the same coin, the exact details of this conversation are private. For all we know, Steve could’ve asked Bucky to come with him, to also seize a chance at getting back the life he lost. Steve could’ve ensured that Bucky was alright with this, and if Bucky really wasn’t ready to lose his support, then he wouldn’t go. All of these are very in-character possibilities for Steve, and there is NOTHING whatsover in canon that states that he didn’t say these things.

But what happened? Bucky let him go. Bucky told Steve to go live his dream, to go be with the love of his life. Bucky was alright with it. (Remember Bucky knew from the start how important Peggy was to Steve. He was a first-hand witness to Peggy declaring Steve “the right partner.” He knew what this chance at time travel meant for Steve.) And by letting him go, Bucky chose to stay in the present. Would he have been able to do this in Civil War? No, and that’s because since then, he grew. They grew. They got to a place where the cords of codependency were finally cut, where they both knew they could live their own lives and not rely on each other to keep one another upright. They finally knew what paths they wanted to follow to live their fullest lives, and those paths were not the same one. Steve embraced a future in the past, while Bucky embraced the present moment. In other words, they finally reached “the end of the line.”

Oh, and I find it absolutely hilarious that some people are like “how dare he retire with Peggy while Bucky is out there being tortured in the 40s?” Steve made a branched timeline when he returned to Peggy, meaning no matter what he did from then on, the Sacred Timeline wouldn’t change. And he knew that. And there is not a single piece of text to be found anywhere in canon that tells us that he didn’t immediately tell Peggy that HYDRA was still around and that they didn’t team up, take HYDRA down, and rescue Bucky before New Year’s 1950. So that argument is ridiculous.

Also, did Steve “leave Bucky alone,” as many have said? Uhhh, NO. We see this in TFATWS.

After Steve left, Bucky was not alone. He had Sam, aka a professional counselor. He had tons of friends in Wakanda, and those friendships were close enough that he could successfully request a new suit for Sam on a whim. And Sam told him exactly what he’d been needing to hear for so long: “It doesn’t matter what Steve thought. You gotta stop looking to other people to tell you who you are.”

On top of that, as we see at the end of the show, Bucky now has an entire family: he’s bonding with Sarah (who knows what that might lead to), and he’s another uncle to AJ and Cass, and he’s bringing cake to the cookout and the arm that used to be a killing weapon, he now uses as a plaything for the children to dangle from. The entire community has welcomed him as one of their own.

Steve and Bucky’s story is a beautiful one because it shows how true friends help guide you to where you need to be in life, and their support sets you on the path to being your best and fullest self. The health of Bucky and Steve’s friendship was destroyed by their shared trauma of being taken from their normal lives in the 1940s, and they clung to each other for emotional survival. Then, gradually, they helped each other get back on their own two feet, and when the time came, they learned to let each other go, because they loved each other so much.

In other words, the finale of Endgame was the natural and inevitable endpoint for their story arc. If it ended with them still together, and clinging on to each other, then what would be the point? That would just be character regression for both of them. But instead, the story concludes with both of them finally free from the codependency, leaving only their love for each other, which they will always carry with them.

[sersi]

Steve Rogers and the Long and Winding Road to Finally Getting a Life

[missfitmarvel0-0]

I posted something Pro-Cartson and I got some Anti-Steggy in the tags. So allow me to clarify myself.

1. I ship both bc Peggy can make any man a good man

2. Steggy is my number one

3. Steve going back doesn't erase Agent Carter. I am of the firm belief that if they wanted to negate Agent Carter, they would have sent him back to 1945.

4. Anyway, if Peggy can't have Steve, Jack is a good second option because he's caring under that asshole exterior

Both ships are valid, and that's all I will say

[usuallydeepcoffee]

The fact that this fandom can’t see Steve putting his own needs and wants first as a good thing, but rather an insult to his friends is the picture of entitlement and hypocrisy. To have a character (whom you supposedly like) who has been through horrifying events and who has always put the collective good before his own desires (to the point that he doesn’t even know what makes him happy or if he can be someone without a war) finally take a step back and choose what makes him happy should be seen as a good thing. Selfishness in kind, selfless people is good, and it is needed, otherwise that same selflessness becomes redundant and hinders character progress. Or worse, it ends up swallowing them. A character like who started out as a self-centered, arrogant asshole needs to develop selflessness in order to grow and become likeable, but Steve? He already was a kind man who would sacrifice himself for others! His journey shouldn’t be seen like “Steve becoming a selfish asshole”; but rather a result of Steve, for the first time in years, putting himself first and asking, what makes me happy? going for it and getting to keep his happy ending.

Fandom knows this. Fandom knows that Steve is good, and selfless and that he more than earned a break. Pre-endgame, it seemed it was all people wanted for him: survive, give up the shield and find a new path in life. When he did though, both in the five years post-snap, and in the epilogue, most fans turned on him and couldn’t stop frothing at the mouth because in both instances the writers did not follow what the fans already planned for him and because, for no apparent reason, fandom decided that he abandoned Natasha, or Bucky, or Sam. Thus putting other characters’ priorities before Steve’s again. The hypocrisy of it all is astounding.

And as for friendships, let’s be clear here: supporting friends makes a huge impact on one's mental wellbeing but it is a. a two way street and b. not the magical cure for ptsd, depression and all that fun, fun stuff. You might be afraid or unable to reach out and a friend helping is usually never enough. It hasn't been for Bucky, who chose to get (professional) help from Wakanda and then refused to get back into fighting, and I fail to see how that would've been enough for Wanda's immense grief. To think that Steve being there would've been such a pivotal change or to expect Steve to put his own wants on hold (again) for somebody else means to grossly underestimate other characters' grief and struggles. Not to mention, it still puts other people's issues before Steve's own which is what we've seen since the get go.

So, like. It is utterly unsurprising to see that Wanda has now joined the ranks of the 'People with trauma Steve should've been there for, but didn't, so he deserves to be dunked on for eternity’. But by God, is it still annoying as fuck to see. It is grossly entitled, hypocritical and underplays both friendships and mental health issues, and I’m sick to see people think it’s either out of character or selfish in a malicious way. 

[roboticonography]

I want my arms about you

The charms about you

Will carry me through

Coney Island, 1950. Can’t save the world every day.

[youareheaven]

happy 2 years of me defending Steve’s ending in Endgame ❤️

[team-cap-for-the-win]

Any thoughts in defense of Endgame Steve and his ending, because antis and "stans" alike are pissing me off.

I've discussed this on here a couple of times! This (originally my) post has some brilliant arguments in the reblogs, you just gotta get over that godawful screenshot that still made my blood boil when I re-read it now: https://katie-my-lady.tumblr.com/post/189085760330/can-someone-please-take-this-off-my-hands-i

^^^ What people wrote there is the tea

Besides those, I wanna say that people don't give Steve any benefit of the doubt ever. He's always held up to a ridiculously high standard when compared to other characters. When other characters misstep it's "bad writing" but when Steve's ending isn't ideal and doesn't pander to their fanon version of the character, he's racist, misogynistic, a predator, a home wrecker, and the anti-christ. I'm almost more sick of so called Steve fans (that turned on him and made posts about how happy they'll be when he dies) than of tony stans, because those at least attempt to defend their fave lmao.

You see I don't think those guys ever genuinely liked Steve. Most of them were obsessed with Bucky and their ship and the moment Steve doesn't do something that directly benefits Bucky, they discard him and do everything in their power to make him the bad guy... I hope they don't move on to Sam and treat him the same way, because he deserves so much better than that.

Steve's ending was open. They never said he married Peggy. They never even said he married a woman. They never explained what he did in all those years. It's a sandbox to play in, to fill in the gaps in any way you want. I always liked to think Steve went ahead and fixed all the things that went wrong while he was in the ice, or that he went on time travelling adventures with Nat, or he got stuck with Loki, or he kicked ass with Peggy - Agent Carter season 3 for you. There are so many awesome possibilites you can come up with!

So what do "steve fans" do? They give him the worst bad faith readings I have ever encountered. They call him all these names and give him all these shitty characteristics he NEVER posessed. If he was consistently a bad person I would understand it, I would. But he's consistently good, and selfless, and kind, and the last 5 minutes of a movie that people didn't even like that much in the first place does not negate any of that. It's THEM who assume the worst and they're happy to do so because they never cared about him in the first place. At least this way it's easy to find the fake fans and block their asses lol.

I don't mind if people didn't like the ending. As long as they don't make double standards posts and wish death upon their "favourite character". That's just messed up and I don't want to associate with people like that at all.

Ask me about Steve or the MCU!