CW: long rambly rant. Written on my phone. Not sure how coherent this is
Ah that post about Jonathan reminded me of the time that, in response to a post I made talking about Joyce's role in Jonathan's parentification, someone tried to excuse it by being like "they're poor!"
And like I get it to some extent. Poverty is likely a very big part of what leads Joyce to the actions she takes wrt this subject. So many things are easier when you are not poor. Including mental health care for yourself and childcare for the kids.
But she still played a part in Jonathan's parentification. And that is still abuse.
If a parent can't feed their child, the reason may very well be poverty. But the end result is still that the child isn't fed, and not feeding a child is abuse regardless of the why.
It's the same with parentification.
I think part of the problem with this subject is that some people are just not ready to contend with the idea that a person or character can be good and loving and care, and still abuse someone they love and care about. That sometimes a person/character can make the best decisions and take the best actions that they are capable of in the moment, and it's still not good enough. That sometimes the best they can manage is still bad.
I do not doubt that Joyce loves Jonathan. We see that, at least a bit in season 1 (and I'll blame the show's shitty writing/directing on why that isn't carried through consistently with the rest of the show).
I do not doubt that Jonathan volunteers for some of the stuff he does. He clearly loves his mom and brother. We see that again and again. He knows the family is struggling. He takes responsibilities sometimes that are not asked of him because he wants to help the people he loves. We see examples of this in the show.
But he still should not have to. He shouldn't be picking up any extra hours he can get bc he is worried about the family's bills. He shouldn't be the one arranging his younger brother's funeral.
These are things that he volunteers for, no one tells him he has to do them. In fact arguably Joyce tells him not to. But they are still the, more indirect, results of him having responsibilities put on him that he should have never had to bear.
In a flashback, we see Jonathan comforting and distracting Will while their parents are arguing in another room. Though we don't see the lead up to this, it seems unlikely that this was something asked of him and more likely this is something that Jonathan volunteered for. Because he cares about Will. He is still acting in the role of a parent here, and being responsible for things he should not be responsible for.
We see time and time again with this show that the combination of the family circumstances (external pressures), and Jonathan's love for his family (internal pressures), continue to put him in situations where he feels he has no choice but to step up and be responsible for things he shouldn't have to be. Because he doesn't have the support needed to be able to trust that an adult will do what needs to be done if he doesn't.
And to attempt to wrap up the subject of Joyce...
Abusers are not all irredeemably and unforgivably evil. A person who was abused recognizing that their abuser didn't intend to hurt them and is just a person with flaws and/or unfortunate circumstances doesn't make them wrong or weak or still under their abuser's control and a character doing those things is not necessarily bad writing.
Joyce intentionally or not put parental responsibilities on to Jonathan and created and maintained an environment where he felt like he had to step up to responsibilities that never should have been his bc he couldn't trust the adults in his life to do what needed to be done.
Joyce loves Jonathan and tried her best given her capabilities and the circumstances. Joyce's best was not good enough and she abused Jonathan.
These statements can both be true.
