Sep 3, 2024
Name 50.
I'll wait.
seen from China
seen from Malaysia
seen from United States
seen from Türkiye
seen from Australia
seen from Australia
seen from Türkiye
seen from China
seen from United States
seen from United States
seen from United States
seen from Germany
seen from Japan
seen from Sweden
seen from Malaysia
seen from China
seen from Algeria
seen from Malaysia
seen from China
seen from Malaysia
Name 50.
I'll wait.
It’s amazing how people view redemption stories.
People think Nate does not “deserve” one. People think that D&D’s take on Jaime Lannister’s “non traditional redemption story” set up by GRRM, automatically means he “will be not be redeemed” and the show ending made sense.
It’s as though “redemption” is the result of a set number of acts often culminating in either a character begging on their hands and knees for forgiveness or dying at the climax of a story that guarantees the character is “redeemed” or firmly wedged into the “good guy” section of the narrative.
Yes these are two very different characters and shows but the idea that “redemption” lacks the same nuance we see for other stories is disheartening. The nuance of what “redemption” means in fiction should be reflective of how we struggle each day to be the best version of ourselves. Yes onscreen we need more dramatized moments to make us feel a character’s journey and to make great onscreen moments, but we also do not have to view it as so defined to be true and resonating with an audience.
"I want there to be a possibility of redemption for us, because we all do terrible things. We should be able to be forgiven. Because if there is no possibility of redemption, what’s the answer then?" -GRRM
Why do you think Asian countries love and write anti hero/villain stories so much and well?
I think, from my own religion's perspective its because of spread of religious doctrines which emphasis on self 's "karma" or acts determining one's lot in life. Like, Buddhism? That religion didn't came out of a vaccum it has roots of its enlightenment from Hinduism too. Look where it has spread or has history over..
That is almost all of Asian swallowed whole! Hinduism itself also has history with Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia , Cambodia. Once you have religious influence over a place going for 100s of years its not easy to make it disappear from that place's culture no matter what happens. One of the key teachings of Hinduism or Buddhism is the emphasis on self to achieve enlightment and end cycle of suffering in their earthly life. In Hinduism its called Karma and Samsaram, The goal is to attain Moksha. In Buddhism its getting rid of the cycle of death and reader by getting rid of Dukkha via Noble Eightfold path.
This is just one example but if your land has history of religion which emphasis on a person's ability to change their heavenly or unearthly destiny by their own actions and morality then NATURALLY it would bleed on the kind of literature they enjoy. So imagine if you were born or raised in a country where the idea of achieving Nirvana/Heaven is possible if you only do the right thing if not now then soon enough? No good deed and good intentions unaccounted for?
Why won't it give rise to stories of redemption? The core idea of Redemption is its NEVER too late to do the right thing. My religion for example , has thousands of line of Epic Poetry written on it where even a heartfelt apology at Death's door is enough. I see similar concepts in Christianity too ( To take English Lit as example you can see the struggle between Catholic and Protestant influence on way of interpretation of morality with plays like Marlowe's Dr Faustus and Dryden's say The State of Innocence....the idea of where and how far God is willing to keep or abandon its children based on what is a struggle between Protestant and Catholic school of thoughts influencing people)
At least in case of Asia, influence of Buddhism and their own local religion which absorbs teachings and ideas from such religion is not up and gone. It thrives if not straight from religious acceptance than its osmosis in literary and musical cultures of the society. So it make sense why our love for such stories persists
Something I love about Lens characters development is he’s goes from being like “I will betray all of you and kill you and rob your corpse if you even look at me” to “Yeah I’m only protecting you for my own selfish reasons now give me like ten minutes I need to think of what that reason is”
YES!! ME TOO!! I’m a HUGE sucker for a good redemption story and Leonard’s is one of the best. I mean when you meet him he’s straight up murdering people and stealing stuff not caring about anyone but himself (and his sister) and then he grows and changes and becomes a big hearted, protective, self sacrificing, team player and it makes my heart full. I love Leonard Snart so damn much and his story is amazing. Best character development ever.
(credit for the gifs belong to mismeru)
Like...imagine being self-righteously dead-set against fictional redemptions and redemption stories because you legitimately believe that a character realizing they’re being horrible, feeling remorse about being horrible, and wanting and deciding to stop being horrible is a bad message to put out into the world.
[and if you can’t point out at least 5-7 instances of what you consider “badly done” redemptions/redemption arcs from the last 10 years, don’t bother replying to this with that (irrelevant) complaint . Because otherwise you’re talking complete bullshit.]
The older I get I just cannot with the useless grimdark themes of my entertainment, you know? I don’t want to play games where I end up losing everything (ME3 I am STILL LOOKING AT YOU), I don’t want to watch tv-shows where the underlying theme is that we are all doomed to be failures/unhappy so here’s some prettily directed nihilism for ya. I really, really don’t want nihilism in any shape, flavor or way. I just don’t. I want complex, nuanced grey and I want characters that are allowed to overcome their shit and redeem themselves. I want all the redemption stories because that’s what matters. So sue me. I think this is why Lucifer hits the right spots for me right now. Because depressing as it may be at times (I cried so hard at his last therapy session in s4) it’s also a show about how it matters what you do, who you try to be. You can change. You can do better. And that’s okay.
Personal narratives can be powerful. They can also be dangerously limiting—depending on who’s doing the telling.
Last week, The New Yorker ran a reported article about McMillan and his business partner, Fred Morin, that details the same trajectory from wine-swilling party hosts to sober, serious restaurant owners. The writer Hannah Goldfield interviews employees past and present who described all kinds of unprofessional behavior at his restaurants, from groping to ass-grabbing to general bullying.
Some of these incidents involved McMillan and some didn’t, but that’s mostly besides the point. Whomever the offender, McMillan’s employees weren’t able to come to him for help, because as McMillan himself acknowledges, “I was stuck drinking somewhere.”
Personal narratives can be powerful, but they can also be dangerously limiting depending on who’s doing the telling. Addiction and abuse don’t affect the user in a vacuum; they’re shrapnel that hits whomever is in range. And when we let the bomb-thrower shape the narrative, we’re ignoring the people left in his wake. What story would’ve emerged if, instead of giving the platform to the repentant chef, we gave it to his former employees? How would they characterize their experience at Joe Beef before and after McMillan’s sobriety? I wish I knew.
Even reported articles don’t always paint a complete picture. In September, Healthyish ran a piece about five well-respected chefs who’d all become sober and were hosting a non-alcoholic dinner at Feast, the Portland food festival. I remember cutting a section that went into why all the participants were men, and I didn't push the writer to question the chefs’ motives or bring in any critical voices. At the time, it seemed besides the point. But those additions would’ve made the piece more honest, nuanced, and timely.
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I'm a hardcore fan of stories that explore the complexities of interpersonal relationships that fall apart - or never existed positively - due to wrongdoing or significant mistakes and how they evolve through the process of accountability, healing, and growth. Additionally, after several years of reading such media, I also really want to see not just the process of betterment, but also the exploration of the rebuilding of trust and safety on the side of the disciplined party - a large facet that is surprisingly often either ignored or assumed to happen by default. The betterment process is itself very hard and complicated yes, but rebuilding morale and security is the other necessary layer that can also be very challenging and fraught. IMO - so much extra goodness to add to a redemption story.