#robert graves

[madnessofmen]

me and the mutuals

[nardialrose]

A lot of people don't know that Robert Graves already wrote popular Greek myth perceptions before PJ - with some has everlasting damages for the worst.

the idea of a Triple Goddesses being universal in every myth? Nope, not a thing; he invented it.

Greece was originally matriarchal before it turned to patriarchy? He didn't invented it, but he popularized it (just look up his White Goddess thesis).

Medusa was actually a goddess and her being raped by Poseidon is a symbol of patriarchy? Also popularized it.

the gods attempt to overthrow Zeus, and Hera, Apollo, Poseidon were punished afterward? Well Graves mixed up a lot of confusing sources into one.

Hestia giving up her Olympian seat to Dionysus? He invented it.

Ares the jock to Hephaestus the nerd? He did that earlier.

Hestia the most kindest and peaceful goddess? He beat you all already.

Hera was forced to marry Zeus and hated the marriage?

Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades drawing lots on who get to rule which domain?

Amphitrite being a jealous wife like Hera?

His ideas baby.

And that's not even getting into the other whacky stuff he conjured up.

Edited: some corrections brought on by few people that the casting lots is founded in the Iliad and Apollodorus. I stand corrected!

[alovelywaytospendanevening]

The convoluted relationship between Siegfried Sassoon, Wilfred Owen, and Robert Graves

Sassoon (left), Owen (middle) and Graves (right)

"An interesting creature, overstrung and self-conscious, a defier of convention." (Sassoon about Graves, 1915)

"A very nice chap but his verses, except occasionally, don’t please me very much." (Graves about Sassoon, 1915)

"He wants to travel with me after the war; anywhere — Russia for preference. And whenever I am with him, I want to do wild things, and get right away from the conventional silliness of my old life." (Sassoon about Graves, 1916)

"I had a long talk with Robert Graves, whimsical and queer and human as ever." (Sassoon about Graves, 1916)

"Robert might have been a great poet; he could never become a dull one. In him I thought I had found a lifelong friend to work with." (Sassoon about Graves, 1916)

"There was something of a bitter charm in him, a sort of sallow, victimised, faithful Jester in the storm — quite impossible to describe — queer twisted smile — ungainly lankiness — rather goggling eyes. [...] His rare gaiety was like a young animal hopping in a daisied field." (Sassoon about Graves, 1916)

"He is a very loveable creature." (Sassoon about Owen, 1917)

"A big, rather plain fellow, the last man on earth apparently capable of the extraordinary, delicate fancies in his books." (Owen about Graves, 1917)

"A most extraordinary good man [who] says what means very courageously." (Graves about Sassoon, 1917)

"On Sat. I met Robert Graves... No doubt he thought me a slacker sort of sub. S.S. when they were together showed him my longish war-piece 'Disabled' (you haven't seen it) & it seems Graves was mightily impressed, an considers me a kind of Find!! No thanks, Captain Graves! I'll find myself in due time." (Owen about Graves, 1917)

"The real thing, when we've educate him a trifle more. R.N., S.S. and myself are doing it." (Graves about Owen, 1917)

"SS said of [RG]: he is a man one likes better after he has been with one. So it turns out in my case." (Sassoon and Owen about Graves, 1917)

"And you have fixed my life — however short. You did not light me — I was always a mad comet, but you have fixed me. I spun around you a satellite for a month, but shall swing out soon, a dark star in the orbit where you will blaze." (Owen to Sassoon, 1917)

"We loved each other as no men love for long." (Owen about Sassoon, 1917)

"I don't think RG feels things as deeply as some... with all his egotism." (Sasson about Graves, 1917)

"And I want no limelight, and celebrity is the last infirmity I desire. Fame is the recognition of one's peers. I have already more than their recognition: I have the silent and immortal friendship of Graves and Sassoon and others. Behold are they not already as many Keatses?" (Owen about Sassoon and Graves, 1918)

"Though you do write bloody good poems I’m sorry you’re such an ass." (Graves to Sassoon, 1919)

"I can only affirm that he was a man of absolute integrity of mind." (Sassoon about Owen, 1920)

"There was some vague sexual element lurking in the background of our war-harnessed relationship. There was always some restless passionate nerve-racked quality in my friendship with R.G., although he has been one of my most stimulating companions. He made me self-conscious." (Sassoon about Graves, 1922)

"I felt very affectionate toward him (only second time I’d seen him this year)." (Sassoon about Graves, 1922)

"He is as stimulating as ever, and I take up my talk with him as though we hadn't been apart for months. [...] There is nothing mean or malicious about R.G." (Sassoon about Graves, 1922)

"Have only just realised how impossible it is to connect it with Robert Graves (who will be one of its literary glories, when he is dead)." (Sassoon about Graves, 1925)

"I still get absolutely dithery thinking about the War so I can’t judge Owen fairly: but I say he’s all right and risk it." (Graves about Owen, 1926)

"Siegfried, we’re all fools and blockheads. And you and I have forgiven each other a lot in the last eleven years or so." (Graves to Sassoon, 1927)

"Dear Siegfried is still my dear Siegfried." (Graves about Sassoon, 1929)

"If I had met you a couple of months ago I should probably have tried to knock you down." (Sassoon to Graves, 1930)

"You're a fad-ridden crank." (Sassoon to Graves, 1930)

"I do know that while I was your friend you were never really open with me, or with any other of your then friends and tried to avoid their knowing each other." (Graves to Sassoon, 1933)

"I was being sentimental, imagining back to the time when I knew and liked you — loved you was more like it." (Graves to Sassoon, 1933)

"Owen was a weakling, really; I liked him but there was that passive homosexual streak in him which is even more disgusting than that active one in Auden." (Graves about Owen, 1943)

"He was able to be of high significance for me both as poet and friend." (Sassoon about Owen, 1945)

"I have, more and more, believed that he would have been incalculably valuable to me. His death made a gap in my life which has been there ever since." (Sassoon about Owen, 1948)

"All the years and misunderstandings had melted away." (Sassoon about Graves, 1954)

"Besides his homosexual soul-scar, he has an Enoch Arden complex — or so he once told me — and a lot of self-protective dishonesty." (Graves about Sassoon, 1954)

[gingersnaptaff]

Welsh myth misconceptions (mythconceptions, wahey!)

This isn't me trying to yuck on anybody's yum, btw.

Agronā isn't a real goddess. She's made up. She has no factual basis and she was never worshipped. The Mabinogion does not mention her, and she was basically a hypothetical some dude made up to happy to the River Ayr because in the 1920's Scottish Nationalists were trying to claim Taliesin's battle poems for Scotland (as in being set there.)

Gwenhwyfar isn't a goddess and I think it's been taken out of proportion a lil because of Arthur having three wives all named Gwenhwyfar. Guy probably just really loved the name or was like 'guess I'd better marry a lady who has the exact same name so I don't have to learn another one' which is exactly the behaviour I'd expect from a guy who wanted to re-kidnap an already kidnapped princess for himself. She's probably cognate with Findabair in Irish myth tbh. She is very much a Cewri and maaaaybe had some myths ascribed to her that have been lost like, you know, 99% of Welsh mythology's lads and lasses.

I have fallen into this trap, but there's no evidence that Lleu Llaw Gyffes is the god of kingship other than him having a name that sounds like Lugh. I would not trust the guy with a wife made out of flowers to rule a kingdom. It goes very badly for him when he tries. He never even gets an heir. Like idk what to tell you.

For what it's worth, Branwen and Creiddylad weren't venerated as goddesses. I have seen websites say they were but that's a big old nope.

Madog ap Owain Gwynedd never discovered America. The Tudors made him up sonthey could lay claim to it as being part of their 'ancestral land'.

Pls don't take The White Goddess by Robert Graves as fact. Man was using outdated sources at the time to satisfy his own version of what he believed Celtic Mythology was and many of his proposed theories are false tbh. If you're looking for a guy who knows his shit can I suggest either Barry Cunliffe or Ronald Hutton?

Okay, these are some lil bits. There's probably more but yeah.

[hyperions-fate]

Gulp down your wine, old friends of mine, Roar through the darkness, stamp and sing And lay ghost hands on everything, But leave the noonday's warm sunshine To living lads for mirth and wine.

I met you suddenly down the street, Strangers assume your phantom faces, You grin at me from daylight places, Dead, long dead, I'm ashamed to greet Dead men down the morning street.

Robert Graves, 'Haunted' (Country Sentiment, 1920)

[lokavisi]

Not to mention that the Triple Goddess "archetype" reinforces gender roles/stereotypes and sometimes bioessentialism when placed in the "right" hands.

[charnel-grounds]

Daniel Maclise (1806–1870)

The Origin of the Harp, 1862

after the painting by Robert Graves (1798–1873)

[pearlfishers]

the concept of the soy boy was invented in the 1970s by robert graves actually