#sander sides analysis

[milk3ad]

i haven’t seen anyone talk about how devastating this line is…

roman is once again being called inherently selfish, as a part of function of romance. and yet again, it’s perceived as a bad thing, another flaw in his character. just like with hopes, dreams, and the ego, it’s something to be limited, as selfishness “should” be. despite roman believing he’s fighting for something noble and good, what’s more pure than love, he’s still being selfish, he’s still wrong. another knock against him and one that he never disputes or defends himself from. and it comes from c!thomas no less…

look at his face here :( someone give my boy some love. there’s nothing wrong with pursing what you want

[sandersontheside]

A thought while I'm thinking about the religious guilt angle. Roman doesn't just represent creativity, but also hopes and dreams and romance. But do you think there was a time, before C!Thomas accepted his sexuality, where Remus was in charge of some of those fantasies? Where imagining being romantic with another boy, no matter how tame, was put in the same category as violent intrusive thoughts? A time where Virgil whispered in his ear that he would go to Hell for being gay?

[mentallyillghostwriter]

Another sander sided rant! (Idk if it’s actually a rant but it’s just me talking a lot about smth I’m excited/interested in)

Anyways!

One big question I have is why is Remus so excited about the orange side? Why does he want Logan to act out? It’s easy just to say “he’s chaotic and likes messing with shit” but is that really all there is to his character? When he first showed up he seemed genuinely annoyed or upset about Logan not being scared of him and getting the others to see him in a less horrifying light too. We also know that Virgil left the dark sides and Janus seems to be gradually getting closer to the “core four” too. Which would leave Remus alone. Before Thomas hadn’t confronted him at all but he still had Janus and Virgil. The other sides knew of his existence but were always leaving. Now Janus is leaving too and Remus is alone. That has to hurt and he certainly doesn’t seem ready to get closer to the others. If the Orange side shows up he has another “dark side” to talk too and who will also likely want to cause chaos at least in Remus’ eyes. It serves him a purpose outside of just “hahaha chaos hahah.” It gives him a friend. I really hope in future videos we get character development of Remus. He’s a super fun character and I love how chaotic he is but I think it would also be great to see him work well with the others. I don’t think Remus knows entirely what he’s getting himself into. He doesn’t seem the type to think things through. I bet he’s gonna regret teasing Logan and releasing the orange side.

Anyways that’s just what I think :3

[crip-writing-shit]

More essay

did you really think I would only over analyze and project onto Doctor who? If so you have been sorely mistaken. Behold my latest creation! Roman Sanders is a surprising good representation of a sibling abuse survivor! Like to ao3 chapter here or continue reading here

head up for non specific talk of child abuse and neglect

I will be trying to write this drawing from cannon only however I have been in the Sander Sides fandom for quite some time and so not all of my characterization will be completely accurate, I am aware that Remus and Roman did not have conventional childhoods with parents as they are only metaphysical but due to the nature of humans dysfunctional sibling relationships occur within a greater family and society with all that said and done let’s get into the meat of it.

A “glass child” is a term used for a sibling of someone with higher needs than themselves and thus the glass child receives very little of the caregivers attention leading to them feeling see through like glass. Glass children most often have medically complex siblings but in cases where a child’s behavior is so dangerous or undesirable that preventing it or limiting damage takes allot of focus and effort from the adults around them the sibling will often end up being neglected, in some cases the glass child will have to assist in caring for their sibling. Roman is very clearly desperate for attention from the other sides, he wants to be praised and looked at and admired. His ego is very fragile perhaps do to his being put aside in order to deal with Remus. When guardians are trying to protect the glass child they may end up keeping things from them because “they are too young to know” or leaving them out of the conversation. We see this in Roman in the beginning of “Dark Side Of Creativity” desperately asking his fellow sides to tell him what is happening and then refusing, he is then knocked out and unconscious for the entire discussion including its resolution, and at least on screen no one thinks to clue him in as to what all happened with his brother.

Sibling abuse is often dismissed and a rivalry or spat but when one sibling has more power over the other out of age, strength or, fear it is known as abuse. Sibling abuse like any other abuse can be Mental, physical, emotional or, sexual in nature and because society doesn’t recognize most cases of sibling abuse the protections in place for abused children let victims of sibling abuse fall through the cracks. Many of sibling abuse cases are what’s called “out of parental control cases” meaning that the parent is not the abuser and cannot stop the abuse easily. These cases are a conundrum because most often putting one or both siblings into foster care would only traumatize them more and so children are forced to remain in unsafe homes, “doesn’t sound like a very fun house” as it was put. Growing up with an abusive sibling we couldn’t discuss what happened during there episodes for fear of the guilt triggering another episode and so I was left out of the loop as Roman is through the episode. Logan wasn’t seriously hurt by Remus while Roman was not only because of belief but because Remus has power over Roman, Roman is cannot be safe from his brother the way the other sides are and with that in mind who do you think Remus takes the frustration of not being able to hurt the others out on? It’s no wonder Roman is so scared of becoming like his brother, is so desperate to rip off anything he has in common with Remus, even though they are family, due to their nature they have more in common with each other than they do other sides and that fact haunts Roman.

Patton prefers Roman. Roman is praised more often in “ The Dark Side of Creativity” more often than most any other episode in the series, but most of those compliments are just because he’s not his brother. “Roman is good!” Unlike Remus “Roman is brave!” Unlike Remus “Roman’s function is important” unlike Remus’ Roman is desperate for praise and yet the strongest praise he gets is when he’s asleep and used to hurt his brother. Roman is the favorite because Remus is the least favorite.

Being abused by a sibling especially one close in age leaves you abandoned by the protections for other abused children, it leaves you isolated from you family while still carrying the burden of being “the good one” it can leave you terrified of becoming like your sibling and sets you up to continue being in abusive relationships.

[radioactive-dazey]

SEMI SANDER SIDES ANALYSIS: ORANGE SIDE HEADCANNON(?)

So I was rambling to a friend about some sander sides theories im working on rn and they mentioned something about Logan repressing his emotions, and how after he lashes out, he tends to feel ashamed afterwards.

So i thought "lmao what if the orange side is like a Jekyll and Hyde situation"

But YALL

LOOK AT THIS??

Im not sure what this means yet BUT IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES

Edit: what if the orange side is dormant?? And Remus' actions is what finally woke him up? WOOO we in for it yall

[littlefoxwithbighat]

The sides denying aspects of themselves

I could write 50 essays on this topic but you'd all get bored and it would be incoherent. So let me talk about some of the parts of the sides that they deny. You probably all already know these but I think it's interesting to talk about and look at the examples--so here we go!

Logan "I don't feel anything" Sanders

OK, right out of the gate this is so untrue. Its so, so, so untrue. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

We've seen him happy:

Angry:

Scared:

Frustrated:

And empathetic/ remorseful:

We've also seen him passionate (Crofters musical), defeated (SvSr) and childish (Losing my motivation)

And all of this requires feeling.

I think what's interesting about this, is that the veil is so thin for this lie. For the pieces I wrote on Roman and Virgil, other characters have had glimpses of the parts they deny but for the most part it's pretty hidden. However Logan having feelings and denying them is common knowledge. Like all the characters know it.

Even Deciet, who yes, is incredibly astute and intuitive, picked it up within knowing the guy for like 10 minutes of canon interaction.

But what is most interesting about all of this to me is that CHARACTER THOMAS KNOWS.

Not only KNOWS but has canonically called him out on it!

C!Thomas [to Logan]: This just serves as testament to the fact that you have a temperament- which is fine, you just haven't accepted it (-LNTAO)

C! Thomas [to Logan]: I've seen you scared. (-Embarrassing Phases)

This is so so fascinating. Firstly, it's worth remembering that Thomas is in control here.

As Virgil said "You're the boss Thomas. Anything you want to know, you can know. You just have to be open to hearing it."

They're his sides. He ultimately has control over them. And Thomas knows that Lo is hiding his emotions, so WHY doesn't he resolve this? Because, let us be clear, it might take time, but if he wanted to, he could.

A) He doesn't think that ultimately, it doesn't matter

B) He doesn't want to

C) He hasn't actually adressed the matter

D) He is concerned about the consequences

Personally I think it's a combination of all four, although perhaps less so D.

We never really get long enough to pause on this topic and see the other sides reactions to this, so it's difficult to draw any firm conclusions. The best we really have is The Puzzle Song in LNTAO, and from that we can conclude Roman is frustrated, and Patton and Virgil are empathetic, but also a bit frustrated and trying to facilitate change.

OK, we've established that he has feelings and looked a little bit at other character reactions. Let's move on to our favourite blue boy himself.

Firstly, motive. WHY does he do this. This is one is easy, and widely canonically established, its his overwhelming need to be taken seriously. Right?

Well sort of.

That what I would have said at first too, but I don't think thats exactly right. It's because he needs to be LISTENED TO, and it's important we make that distinction. I think Crofters is a great example. He made a bit of a fool of himself in that video, and what's more, he didn't care. And I don't think it's becuse of his powerful love of Crofters overtook his sensibilities (lol) it's because he didn't have a point he needed it express in that video. His emotionless, serious personna was created is that the other sides, and Thomas, would listen to him, when he expresses facts and opinions. Because that's all Logan wants.

So it's pretty heartbreaking that it hasn't worked.*

*(Please note I do not think the sides were unjustified in talking over him in some of this points and that some of them are clearly a result of high emotional stress. That said its still clearly getting to Logan)

This is even more distressing when you consider that for Logan listening and learning, going both ways is very much his love language (See Joans explanation of Sunrise from In The Heights on his playlist, and his reaction to Thomas saying he might take an astronomy course). Logan is killing himself trying to be listened to, trying to be loved, and it's not WORKING (Hmm, remind you of another side?)

But this is a progressive development. Maybe it's partly a result of Thomas not having the characters super fleshed out when the series started, but even so, this personna Logan is putting up is coming up more and more often, and he's clearly repressing his feelings more and more. It's kind of difficult to show this, but just watch Logan in early season 1 compared with now, there is a marked difference.

But actually, I think there are two things that illustrate this perfectly.

First, him making himself into a textbox in POF. I mean it goes without saying, but textboxes aren't people. They don't have emotions. Logan feels he can't even show up anymore, because he as a person, is not worth paying attention to. I don't think it's a coincidence that he chose a form that cannot be talked over, and pops up on the front of the screen, impossible to hide, or cut out of shot. Remember, it was Janus who created the skip button.

(That being said I think I'm not saying this is a sign of him having a healthy ego and interfering, if anything it implies the opposite)

Second, the unicorn onesie. The unicorn onesie is something I keep coming back to when I think about Logan because... UNICORNS. They're a fantasy creature, there's not a jot of science or reality about them. Of all of the choices, Logan, fact oriented Logan, doesn't understand figures of speech Logan, doesn't like cartoons because they're not realistic Logan, WHY does he pick a UNICORN!?

In my opinion, the unicorn onesie is something of a confession. Vulnerability. It kind of represents all of the feelings and fantasy and fun that Logan tries to repress. And that kinda makes sense doesn't it, I mean, feelings, fun and fantasy, that's what unicorns often stand for.

So I think it's telling that throughout the series, we first see him embarrassed, but not too torn up about being seen in his onesie (able to show and engage with his feelings fairly openly, but trying to keep fairly calm and serious) to being unable to wear it around his friends in a relaxed environment, WHEN THEY ARE ALL WEARING ONESIES (Can't show any emotional vulnerability at all and suppressing all his feelings in order to seem serious and be listened to.) Thinking about it this way, Roman saying "no onesie, no vote" could be an interesting parallel to how the sides view this. Because, again this isn't working, and if anything, the deeper Logan goes into this emotionless front, the less he seems to be listened to, which makes him go even deeper, and it's an endless positive feedback loop, which is ironic considering how soul-crushingly negative this is.

What I'm trying to say is that we've seen repeatedly, that the point in the episode where a/the side(s) get emotionally vulnerable is often the point in the episodes where everyone calms down and listens to one another, so this emotional repression is doing nothing but damaging Logan.

That being said, you can understand how he's worried about letting his front it down. Because Logan is right.

There will be times where he needs to be heeded, and ignoring him could lead to disastrous consequences. The biggest example of this is DWIT. If he wasn't there they could not have gotten rid of Remus, everyone else would be panicking, and Thomas' mental state would be in the gutter.

Thomas NEEDS Logan.

So if Logan feels like showing his feelings will stop him from being listened to, then logically, he has to continue to hide and suppress them.

I think in season 3, maybe even the season 2 finale this will be adressed and be a big part of his character arc, and I for one, can't wait.

Anyway I think that about does it for this one. Thanks for reading!

[butterfly-janus]

So is anyone else gonna acknowledge that Patton turned into a frog?

Because my mind immediately went,

"Oh so the light sides have animal aspects too, they're just hidden better!"

Janus is snake for obvious reason.

Remus is octopus

Virgil is spider

Patton is frog/toad. (Leaning more on frog)

And my first thought was like "oh like those kid books Frog and Toad! Cuz thats kid friendly!" Then I started reading into it, and while it differs in culters, frogs are seen as good life giving things in most ancient cultures, interestingly enough the Romans thought frogs represented, fertility, harmony, and get this, licentiousness, (meaning, not having strong moral disciplines, something that was questioned the entire episode.) And medieval Christianity compared land frogs and water frogs differences like righteous and sinful congregations respectively. (Which is Patton's job, separating the right from the sinful.)

But get this, the phrase "The Frog in the Well" is used to refer to someone who has a narrow vision on life in . (Or in this case, a narrow vision on selflessness.)

So yeah, Patton being a frog, makes sense.

Now to figure out Logan and Roman. (And the mysterious blank spot on the thumbnail.)

[milk3ad]

so i’m back on my pseudo-scientific ao3 research bullshit. now, i for sure, imagined janus would have the most unsympathetic tags, then remus, and then the core four, so i was curious to check where those four ranked amongst each other.

imagine my shock when patton had the most unsympathetic tags! ik i’ve talked abt this phenomenon before, but i couldn’t believe it. until i remember that this tag started off as an inverse of the sympathetic deceit tag, meaning all fics prior to when janus was generally accepted as good/morally neutral by fans weren’t tagged. patton, first perceived as the most morally good, now has more unsympathetic tags than janus, first perceived as evil by a ton of ppl… ironic for sure…

anyways here’s the order !! yay logan for the win !!

(and if you’re wondering, yes i’m very upset roman is third, yes he can be a jerk but cut him some slack guys /lh)