Okay, I recently commented on another post by @bauern how much restraint it takes not to put people on blast who blatantly copy and paste whole chunks of text off my blog (and not just mine) and then sell it as theirs on other platforms, but I just about had enough and won’t block out user names this time.
The latest one is on Reddit, but it’s happened on Twitter as well, and it’s just really, really not cool, people. The Sandman fandom is fairly small, and just because I mostly post on Tumblr doesn’t mean that I don’t see what’s going on elsewhere, even if I don’t have the same handle or don’t post there at all (although my Tumblr URL is on my Reddit profile, so it’s no secret over there).
Theirs today:
Mine in July:
Wow, you changed “bad” into “stupid”, I guess that makes it okay…
This isn’t the first time this happens and I was quiet about it so far, but there’s a pervasive trend in fandom (not just this one) to take other people’s work without giving credit that just gets worse. Maybe take this an opportunity to think if what you’re doing is okay, because you’re not as anonymous as you think you are—neither on Twitter, nor Reddit, nor here. Especially if you post the same stuff on all three (you tried it on here as well).
And because there’s absolutely no contrition and you’re still doing it: @/fairy-lilith and your several alter egos (like @/katherine87, but that’s just the latest, rest in tags) here and on the other platforms, at this point I’m just assuming nothing you post on Reddit (as Daenys_Dreamer90) or Twitter (as lady_katara) is your original thought because you’ve taken text, gifs and images from at least five different accounts on Tumblr. All without credit. And despite having been called out by several people on Reddit repeatedly, you keep on doing it. Quickly changing your Tumblr handle in a panic after being called out and then proceeding to mine people’s posts so you can post text and ideas that aren’t yours on Twitter and Reddit isn’t the flex you think it is. You might think we’re dumb, but I’m afraid the only one coming across as dumb at this point is you because you post the same stuff from your accounts across platforms, which makes you rather easy to identify. You and your other accounts on here are now blocked. I recommend other people do the same… Not that it changes anything because you keep on mooching off people’s accounts regardless if they’re public. So maybe putting you on blast is what’s needed since you obviously still think what you’re doing is okay. People like you who are just in it for clout and karma-farming are honestly everything that’s wrong with fandom these days…
I prefer the nuance and poetry of the scans more, but true, some information is different, but overall basically the same. Also, sheesh, get with the 21st century official translators. "Humanity" is far more inclusive than "man" (grinds teeth) (Edit in: But read below). (The use of 'with' for the sun god and serpent can be read a few ways. I wonder if it means in the way that the scans implied (alongside)).
Okay, I need to add to this. I haven't read any comments or tags I might've got on it. Artur says:
彼らはきっと会えるだろう
And once that conflict ends, “The Sun will return. A new morning will arrive”, indicating that the Dawn of the World will come. And at last, “Those men will surely be able to meet again.”. It is unclear who these “men” is referring to, as it just uses the male third person pronoun in the plural (while English doesn’t have male third person plural, Japanese does), so it’s just referring to a group of men, though keep in mind it could also be generalizing to men as a large group if it also includes women.
Probably not explained later. Nefertari D. Lili seems to be in the group of people joining in on the battle at least.
Edited: Feb 6: Also, Sandman (on Twitter) and Artur differ somewhat
First of all, this:
The texts are written in a poetic style. In particular, the words 隷人 (slave), 片われ月 (half-moon), and 残影 (afterimage) are difficult vocabulary that an average JP person has probably never even heard in their lifetime. Oda has successfully elevated the tone of the text.💪
Sandman's Twitter Link is here:
Artur used standard Japanese for half moon, at least on Library of Ohara (unless it's mentioned twice). Read below for moon update!
Then Sandman says this of Artur's comment on the use of 彼ら, although Artur responds too.
Also, Feb 12, Artur’s latest visual!
Sandman:
💡I politely disagree with Arthur’s translation. He translated the sentence as “He and they could not meet again.” His point that the Japanese word 彼ら(karera) includes at least one male is correct. However, translating it as “He and they” might give the impression that He is a special or distinct entity, which I do not perceive from the original Japanese text. Even considering the existence of Joy Boy, the safest translation would be “They” rather than “He and they.”
Twitter link 2.
Artur's words (which Sandman is referencing) on Twitter. These are more in depth than on his Chapter Secrets, unless he's changed them. I'm hoping it's a wider 'they', btw.
[LOST IN TRANSLATION:] The subject of "won't meet again" is 彼ら, which in Japanese is male third person plural. English gender neutralizes "they" so this nuance gets a bit lost (whereas other languages, like French ils/elles or Spanish ellos/ellas retains gender). If I were translating for publication I'd just keep it as "they" but just wanted to highlight the nuance here in case it were relevant.
But in the same way as something like "those guys" in English, it can mean a man + an undefined number of other people of any gender. So it could be a man and a woman, a man and a large group of people, or a large group of people in general. But I would argue that if it really were just two people, a word like "the two of them" would be used (especially in Japanese) rather than a broader plural term, so I think this is most likely referring to a larger group of people than just two individuals. This is a very important distinction I feel.
So because of that, I'm not so sure if it's referring to the meeting of two Kings the Sea Kings mentioned (which might just be Joyboy and Poseidon in that case) or two people as a whole, but rather a big group of people. Hard to say, but I wonder if it's just referring in a broader way to all people, the union of all people and races as "one piece". That makes the most sense to me at least, as it would make sense by context that the subject is all those previously mentioned. Like "at last, all people will be united as one instead of being separate" 🤔
Artur's Link here
And his reply to Sandman with a shout out the official translation (tough job!).
That's what I mentioned in the tweet as well! If this were in terms of a professional translation for publication, I'd definitely translate it as "they". I just wanted to highlight that nuance by writing it this way here since most English readers might miss the gendering
Btw, given what you said in the tweet, which is basically what I mentioned as well, would you agree that the use of 彼ら over something like 二人 indicates this is more logically (though not strictly necessarily) referring to a larger group of people than just two indidivudals [sic]? That's kind of the feeling I got and was what I was trying to illustrate 🤔
Artur's reply to Sandman link here.
Some very interesting discussion on the choice of "not meet again" or "never meet at all?" The official translation using "they would never meet" in the comments on the last post too. The official translation kind of covering all bases.
Feb 12: Extra, extra info.
Okay, Artur didn’t simplify any of the Japanese. There is the standard Japanese for half moon, and the kanji that Sandman has used above is closer to a crescent or fragmented moon, even though Viz used half moon for both moons.
Here’s a link to Artur’s amazing, very thorough translation (step by step).
More in depth than what was originally posted by me (and him).
