#sans meta

[dchuntress]

rereading comics of both helena bertinelli and helena wayne, it does become apparent that it is difficult to write a huntress without dissecting and reflecting on darker yet everyday themes like the normalisation of violence even at homes and in safe spaces, domestic violence, and specifically, the treatment of women and other marginalised populations most vulnerably affected by patriarchy, implicitly. why crime occurs at all, when children truly learn to get scared, how the asymmetry occurs in various, often times intersecting yet distinct hegemonic systems, and how it leads to hypervigilance even when the everyday life looks normal for people, to the point that even safety measures like holding your keys tight is seen as irrational, unnecessary, a personal affront. why imperfect victims still matter. how prey and predator often mirror each other in the desire-fear for survival, the world is more than a narratively linear war of two sides; it is an ecosystem. that's why the huntress is needed to be morally grey and yet, empathetic and understanding, both towards the people they hunt and the people they protect, because the huntress is just as capable of carrying on the cycle of violence she emerged from. history must, thus, be embodied - as a lifelong lesson, in everyday life. not a shallow legacy.

some references:

huntress year one, huntress cry for blood, huntress 1989, detective comics 2016 run, batman huntress secret files, lazarus planet dark fate;

worlds' finest 2012 powergirl/huntress, various pre crisis comics of helena wayne;

the background of how and why both these comic characters were created at all, latent understanding of the complexity of selina kyle, gotham, and other morally grey women;

[lesmurples]

Welp, finally finished a normal/pacifist run of Deltarune’s newest chapters, so I guess I’m posting Sans Undertale theories in this wretched year of our lord 2025.

I’m rusty on the wild fan theorizing of ye olden days, but I remember there being something about Sans being from either another timeline or another world. I think it was mostly connected to the stuff you can find in his basement, some dialogue from the pacifist and genocide endings (stuff about how he “can never go back” and “will never see them again” - which granted, could be connected to him remembering past resets), and dialogue from the Snowdin shopkeeper that said the skeleton bros “just showed up one day” and not clarifying from where. This Reddit post includes a lot of the speculation I remember from the time.

There was also a theory that Gaster was based on a cut character called “Grandpa Semi” from an earlier Undertale concept, who might’ve then been replaced by Alphys. The idea was that in Undertale’s metafiction, a cut character is kind of like writing a character out of reality, as it’s suggested might have happened to Gaster (depending on how you interpret Goner Kid’s dialogue). Undertale is written essentially as a game that knows it’s a game, with its gameplay functions existing outright in the fictional world, so I could see something like this being the inspiration for all the Gaster/mystery man secrets.

So if we entertain this as a possible inspiration for Gaster, we could apply a similar meta interpretation to Sans and Papyrus. Back in the before-times when Deltarune Chapter 1 was released out of nowhere, Toby said that he’d originally been working on concepts for Deltarune when he eventually switched over into creating what would become Undertale. So Deltarune (and specifically its ending) was an early concept in this project, as were the characters of Sans and Papyrus. I don’t know if they were originally made for Deltarune or if Toby came up with them after switching over to Undertale, but if they were made for Deltarune originally, how could that be translated in-fiction considering the paratextual and metatextual relationship between Deltarune and Undertale?

Well, maybe Sans and Papyrus were originally from Deltarune’s world. Maybe they somehow ended up in Undertale through reality-breaking (game-breaking?) means. Maybe this is somehow connected to Gaster, who it’s theorized is related to them (he has weird dialogue font stuff going on as well). Maybe it’s a form of time-travel, or they jumped into an alternate reality.

If this very speculative idea were true, I’m not sure what the order of events would be. Is the new Sans Deltarune the OG Sans before he isekai’s into Undertale? Or from Sans’s perspective, did he isekai from his original world into Undertale, and now has isekai’d into a similar-but-inevitably-different version of his original world? Is this pre-Undertale Sans or Post-Undertale Sans? (or is it just Deltarune Sans and I’m a fool)

Unless there are some scenes I haven’t unlocked (I haven’t done the weird route or finished the secret bosses yet), we don’t see that much of Sans in Deltarune, and infuriatingly nothing of Papyrus. Mostly Sans is a mischievous new guy in town who’s ““befriending””” your mom, and I’ve only seen him possibly teleport once (when he’s fucking around with his signs while simultaneously making “hotdogs” in the next room). His store is super suss since it seems to be the only building asset from Undertale in town - aside from, of course, his house. Did he bring his house and Grillby’s bar to this world somehow? (Or maybe Grillby just had the same bar here, sold it to Sans, and Sans did barely any renovating as is his way.)

Also, the song “It’s Raining Somewhere Else”? That plays when Sans takes you to dinner and is super spooky?? And an echoey, far-off version of it plays at the end of Chapter 4??? And I was sitting there thinking “oh shit it was raining is this the ‘somewhere else’” AND THEN I LOOK UP THE SONG AND IT’S CALLED “THE PLACE WHERE IT RAINED” TOBY I SWEAR TO GOD-

Anyway, the other main thing I’m questioning is Sans’s door being present in the Dark World - it was always a suss door. Was it always the way he took shortcuts in Undertale? Did he bring it there with him from Deltarune somehow? Who can say.

For all I know this has already been disproven by alternate content in the game, but I dunno. Playing has been taking me back to the less-on-fire days of yore, when I absorbed tons of Sans theories instead of worrying about impending US fascism. All I can say is I’m watching you bone-man, you can’t hide from me. 👈👀

I will add that Susie creating her own Dark World in Chapter 4 really sets my brain on fire in terms of relating Deltarune to Undertale. Her Dark World being just slightly different from the one that existed before has to relate to Deltarune’s relationship with Undertale thematically, if nothing else. I’m really excited to see where all this goes, and also terrified of what things will look like in 3+ years if/when we see the ending. Hopefully a worker’s revolution, or getting closer to it. I guess like Susie, you gotta hope, even if the odds seem against you. (i’m not projecting onto the themes of deltarune UR projecting-)

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

I am trying to find these good (and funny to me; at least one of them) Posts about Sans and his character/characterization/portrayals that were really good and found on Tumblr at some point:

But I can’t.  And I am sad about it.

Like, one of the posts, was literally titled (or something very similar to it), “Sans is not Lazy”, and even though I know that name is the name of the post or at least similar to it, I can’t find it at at all (at least not yet), when I search for it.

Probably partially because Tumblr’s Search can suck sometimes.

Anyways, it was a really good post, that shows why Sans isn’t lazy (or as lazy or “lazy” in a Sans way) as some people think.  I just really like that post.  Not that I mind people portraying him as lazy; esp. if it is like, “he is lazy, but in an efficient way”, or showing how he is both parodically hardworking/not lazy and lazy at the same time (Sans is a character that has so many interesting and ofc well-done paradoxes about him, and I love that about him.  I love him), like TGQ (the full name being:  “The Golden Quiche”) does, but I think they do it, makes sense!  And feels in-character.  And without that, I don’t mind it too much, and can defin. still like/love it, and find it in-character and stuff (and also, people can do them and/or have different interpretations and opinions and analyses of characters and stuff and/or etc., and that is fine!; for the most part lmao; to me).  But I still like posts like that and other stuff, showing Sans as not being lazy, the other stuff I mention above about this/that point, and/or etc.  Just stuff like that (sometimes).  :)

If anyone knows what post I am talking about; I am once again (saying once again, because this ain’t my first time asking for help in finding stuff on here) asking for u to link it or something.  Please.

And the other post (and the one I find funny), was the ask to someone saying they couldn’t really pin down Sans’ character/characterization, and they answered going over some (not all ofc, Sans is too complex for that imo) of the more major & “minor” parts of his character.  I don’t completely agree with their anabasis of him, but I like a lot of it, and find it funny.  Or just see himself going, “Yeah, that is accurate”, even for some of the, less “nice” traits of Sans, lol.

Like, some of the way they described Sans was “fake”, “apathetic”, “unemotional”, and etc.  And what makes it even funnier to me, is that a lot of the traits they list off are like that, i.e., traits that can be seen as not very nice (though I think some are very useful and “good” in their own ways), and then they basically end it off with (not including some more quickfire little “trivia” notes about him, which are the things I agree with the least with, at least a couple and/or few of them probably.  Though I do agree with some others) “A good person?”.  And I just find that so funny.  They were basically like this about Sans, “Yes, he is, not the best person in a lot of ways, but I also do think he is a good person? too”.  I just find that hilarious honestly. But also, yes!  Sans is both a (very) flawed person, but I also “a good person?”, or at least does stuff with and/or has good intentions and good reasons for what he does and how he is and/or etc.

Anyways, that post (or like, someone got an ask I think, and did a really long answer to it) is so good, but I can’t find it.  I think I found it at one point by looking up “Sans characterization”, Undertale Sans characterization”, “Sans character, “Undertale Sans character”, or something like that.  But I am not finding it so far again.  And I am also sad about this again.  I even added “good person?” and “a good person?”, along with some other stuff, like Sans, but still, nothing.  Curse Tumblr’s sometimes terrible search.

Like with that other post I am trying to find, if u find this one/one u think is this one/something similar to this, please, let me know!

Thank you!!