#sanzaru

[fruits-a-villa]

I know I'll get flak for saying this, I've completely forgiven Sanzaru Games for that infamous evil Penelope plot twist in "Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time" (yes, even the person/writer who came up with it I've forgiven them too) like LOOOOONG ago.

Yes, I find it to be really badly written twist but I stopped being mad for over a decade ago and I honestly wish other Sly Cooper fans would do the same.

[breadknight-likes-things]

Here's To You Sanzaru Games, I'll Miss You.

There was a time in my life, that I like to pretend wasn’t 13 or so years ago, where Sanzaru games was damn near the most important company in the world to me. They'd had just developed the excellent Sly Cooper HD collection, a game that I had played a metric ton of at the time in some real "Remember when I was a kid?" nostalgia. In that collection it was revealed that they were making a fourth Sly Cooper game, at that point only really known on screen as “Sly 4 ?(The question mark was prominent). We’d later learn that the collection of Sly ports was something of a tryout for them after they’d pitched Sony on a Sly 4 to begin with, but just seeing the very early trailer (that was obviously just a four or second clip over top of some completed level geometry) was massive for me. So the news recently that they’ve been shut down sucks. Of course it sucks on numerous levels, people have lost their jobs, games have likely been canned, and potential for future projects has just vanished in the aether. It’s hard to express in a way that makes much sense but when the Sly Cooper HD collection dropped, 18-year-old me felt extremely vindicated in my love of the franchise. It’s hilarious to think of how short the gap between them and Thieves In time actually was in retrospect, but the original three Sly Cooper games felt like gargantuan markers in my love of video games. It had felt like it’d been a lifetime since we had gotten a Sly Cooper game (in actuality it was about 6 years, which these days is nothing in waiting for a sequel), so I was over the moon to have three of my nostalgic childhood favorites back in my hands and looking better than ever. When I later found out that the game contained a secret trailer for Sly 4, I lost my mind. It’s all I would talk about for weeks. I’d post about it anywhere people would listen. I'm sure I was deeply annoying, but I didn’t notice or care because I was 18. Back in these days, I was an avid poster on the unhinged Polygon forums (yes, Polygon had forums. In fact I was a mod, so you have to believe me about the unhinged part). I’m 100% sure most of my posting history at the time was just telling people Sly 4 existed. It felt like a far-off dream of mine had been granted, and I was finally being given everything I wanted. This was, of course, all thanks to Sanzaru Games. As I said, we didn’t really know it at the time, but now it’s fairly common knowledge that Sly 4 was the result of them making an internal pitch to Sony, being hired for the remasters, and getting the green light to make the fourth game off the quality job they did on them. Hell, they did such a quality job, and they sold so well, that they essentially spawned an entire sub-genre of the HD remaster in the 7th gen of consoles. Sony’s tended to be the best examples. Both the Jak and Ratchet trilogy remasters were of a similar high quality. I know Sly 4 itself is seen as a…,contentious, spot in the Sly Cooper fandom but this post isn't really about that. Regardless of how you feel about the final quality of the game, this post exists in appreciation of all the people that worked so hard on it. There simply wasn't going to be another Sly Cooper game before they made that pitch. There probably wouldn't even have been the HD collection to begin with. No matter how you feel about the original game they made, Sanzaru brought more people to Sly Cooper, and I personally feel they did a good job with it. They deserve the laurels just based on that, and I'm going to miss them. So here’s to you, Sanzaru. I’m sorry that this happened, and frankly, I’m sorry I haven’t played many of your games post-Sly 4 (which I personally quite liked!). We’ll always have the memories though, so thanks again.

[slycooperconfessions]

"Honestly, Sanzaru must have just read the Wikipedia of the games or something because of the way they handled the original characters, but Sly as well, like he feels like a young teen here. Sly in the third game nearly sacrificed or almost died trying to save Carmelita and the gang, but here he's just constantly joking around, not taking anything seriously. Like Sly felt like a man/adult in the original games, but here he feels like a teenager…"

Confessed by: Anonymous

[thesoccerenthusiast]

Big, Long Video Game Review: I Played Sly Cooper 4: Thieves in Time...

One of my first-ever games I got on the PlayStation when I was a kid was Sly Cooper 2: Band of Thieves.

I can't remember if it was technically my game or my brother's game, but either way, that was one of the first games I had. Along with Jak and Daxter, my love for platforming was born from these games. When I got older — and got a PlayStation Now subscription as a full-fledged adult — I finally got a chance to play the other games: Sly 1 (Thievius Raccoonus), Sly 3 (Honor Among Thieves) and, finally, Sly 4 (Thieves in Time).

I had seen a lot of YouTube videos and reviews over the years of the infamous Sly 4. Of course, it didn't take a genius to figure out that a lot was different: the art style, the graphics, the mission-types and the developer.

The reviews were mainly negative about the game, but I'm the type of person that doesn't want to judge something unless I've played it myself. So I began to forget all of the reviews I read and jumped into the game.

Let's rip the band-aid off... I loved it.

I'm sure that may come as a shock to folks in the Sly Cooper Community, because a wide majority absolutely despise this game. But, I really enjoyed it. Of course, there are some things that are head-scratch worth (hi, Penelope and Murray's writing), but overall, I enjoyed the story, I absolutely adored the ancestors and the graphics were truly something to behold.

So, if you're intrigued, take a look at my favorite things, my not-so-favorite things and my overall thoughts on the game!

Thumbs Up: The Ancestors

In Sly 3, I didn't really care for the new playable characters. Nothing thrilled me about Penelope, up until her boss-battle with LeFwee, the Panda King's movement and firework controls were just annoying, the Guru was alright but the controls were kind of janky and Dimitri's missions were groan-worthy. But, in Sly 4, I really enjoyed playing as the ancestors.

The best ancestor, in my opinion, is Tennessee "Kid" Cooper. His gun mechanic is really good and actually pretty solid from a game-play point of view. The crack shot was a fun tool and I enjoyed the puzzles you had to do with it. My second favorite was Riochi Cooper. His moves were pretty standard and the special ninja jump move wasn't anything to write home about, but his lines were so good and I really enjoyed his stealth-slam technique with the ninja stars.

I'd give the next spot to Sir Galleth Cooper. I wish you got to use the sword more, but his high jump was fun when having to overcome the obstacles in the hub world and on missions. At the end of the game, Galleth's section where he has to get Tennessee's cane back was my favorite to play. Fourth, I'd give it to Bob Cooper. The ability to climb on ice was a lot of fun in the hub world. Although his movement was a bit heavy.

Last but not least, Salim Al-Kupar. His ability to speed-climb the poles wasn't super unique, because if you put the thief costume on Sly, he can climb up the poles with the ability to slow down time. The other costumes didn't give Sly the same abilities as the ancestors, so that knocks some points off Salim. Although his lines were great. "Ugh... again with the climbing?"

Go take a nap, Salim.

The best part about the ancestors is that they all have a personality. They're not stagnant. You have a hot-headed Galleth, a wise ninja with Riochi, a cocky know-it-all with Tennessee, a grumpy ol' Salim and an excited Bob.

How can you not love Riochi's conversation with Murray when they're at the Geisha house? Or Tennessee's first meeting with Sly, when he thinks the latter is 'funnin' on his family name? Or how about Bob's cutscenes where he's playing with Bentley's technology?

Their personalities are great, and I will not stand for any ancestor slander!

Thumbs Up: The Platforming

Gosh, I miss good-old-fashioned platformers. Sly Cooper has always been a game based on platforming. Of course, this was most evident in Sly 1. But, Sly 4 really returns to a big platforming focus. There isn't a lot of mini-games — sans the training segment with Bob Cooper.

It even seems like Bentley's hacking has been toned down a bit. You really increase the hacking missions when you want to 100 percent the game, as the masks are hidden in the 'arcade' machine.

Doing the platforming in Riochi's sushi shop, Madame Geisha's house, Tennessee's mission where he gets his gun back and Galleth's missions overall, were a lot of fun. My favorite hub-world to find masks was Galleth, as the different towers had a lot of platforming variants. It was a lot of fun.

Thumbs Up: The Clue Bottles and Treasures

They're back! I gotta be honest, the fact that this game has clue bottles and treasure immediately shoots it up on my Sly Cooper rankings — those are at the end, stay tuned!

The clue bottles were always my favorite part of Sly 2, and you have to get them in Sly 1 to get much-needed power ups for upcoming missions. Having them back in Sly 4 was a great decision by Sanzaru. And, they were hard to find! I remember really struggling in the Old West for it to be literally on top of a rock. Prehistoric times also provided a bit of a challenge, along with Arabia. Really well done by the creators to put them in tough spots.

And the treasures were awesome. I remember it taking me a while — i.e. merry ol' England — to figure out that you needed the Samurai suit to blast the doors. The fact that you have to go back and use the costumes to get the treasures is great, too. Really a nice touch for those who want to 100 percent the game.

The masks were a good addition too. I really didn't like that there were some in the arcade game, but at least it gave the game a purpose (unlike the random ping-pong table). I also just hated the Bentley missions where he was a shooter, so that might be a 'me' criticism. But, the masks were a good add, and I liked that they were in mission levels, too. Well done, Sanzaru.

Thumbs Up: The Costumes Have a Purpose

In Sly 3, you got costumes to basically walk in front of guards and then talk to them. First and foremost, I'm glad that this game got rid of the thought-bubble 'challenges' where you have to pick the next piece of dialogue. That was exhausting in Sly 3.

Anyway, the costumes have a real purpose in Sly 4. In Japan, you get a Samurai suit that is flame-resistant and can launch fireball attacks back. In the Old West, you get a jailbird costume that is probably lowest on my list: you get to walk on a ball and use the ball to move cages and stuff. In the Prehistoric times, you get a sabertooth tiger suit that allows you cyclone pounce on enemies. In England, you get an archer's outfit, equipped with a bow. Finally, in Arabia, you get a thief costume with a giant sword and the ability to slow down time.

My favorite costume is probably the archer costume, as it's the most practical. Going back to other time periods and finding buckets of arrows is a treat. We'll just ignore that it took me seven tries to get the bottle of Merlin's Magic with the shooting game.

Thumbs Up: Carmelita's Inclusion

OK, obviously the bellydancing mission wasn't the best — whoever thought of that should be stoned, frankly — but other than that, I really enjoyed Carmelita in this game.

Although, quick criticism out of the way: I didn't care for Grey DeLisle voicing Carmelita in this game. I love Grey, and am a huge fan of her performances as Azula in Avatar: The Last Airbender, Kimiko in Xiaolin Showdown and so many more, but her Carmelita was... meh. I would say it's better than Sly 2's performance, but not better than Sly 1 or Sly 3.

But anyway, I loved her inclusion. The mission where she had to take down the three-headed mechanical dragon was great, and the writing between her and Galleth was so smooth. I loved how Sly got jealous. I've seen a lot of people say that Sly calling Galleth "sir goof" was out of character, since he's always respected the ancestors. While that respect is true, I don't think it's out of character. He's the jealous type, our little thieving raccoon. Carmelita was pushing his buttons and gamers already saw that Sly had an annoyance with the hot-headed Galleth.

The mission where she teamed up with Tennessee to rescue the Cooper Gang out of prison was really good too. I liked the back-and-forth between Carmelita for the shooting and Tennessee for the platforming. *Chef's kiss*

The ending of the game had a scene where you can see how much Sly and Carmelita care for each other, and then when Carmelita does her own search for Sly? Man, it's so good. Carmelita's character was really solid in Sly 4, in my opinion.

Thumbs Up: The Animated Cut Scenes & Chapter Scenes

Were the comic-book style animations in Sly 1, 2 and 3 amazing? Absolutely. Was the animated scenes in Sly 4 also really good? Yes.

I loved the art style. I can understand if it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I really enjoyed it. The cut-scenes in the game were also really smooth. I thought some were unnecessary — take Riochi's sushi shop, where there's a cutscene when he opens the last door, you take a few steps and turn on the lights and then it's another cutscene — but for the most part, I thought they were done well.

And while the cutscenes in Murray and Riochi's mission inside Madame Geisha's house were funny — Riochi had the best facial expressions, as shown above — they interrupted the game play in the sense of buttons had to be hit as soon as a cutscene ended. Other than that, I loved it.

Thumbs Up: The Hub Worlds & Design In General

Gosh, this game is gorgeous. I mean, its graphics are really something. My favorite level is definitely Feudal Japan, with Medieval England being a close second. The way the moonlight shines enough for you to see details around the level, but also keep the stealthy-nighttime setting is perfection.

Even the daytime levels look great. The clean, sleekness of the Prehistoric times level is a nice touch and the Old West looks and feels like... the old West! Arabia is beautiful, with all the vibrant colors. Also, we can't forget the Paris rooftops. I love the continuity of keeping Paris in these games.

I'll also add the music in this section. Peter McConnell is back doing the soundtrack and I think he had a lot of fun with using different time periods and cultures for the music in these levels. The Medieval England soundtrack is definitely my favorite of the bunch.

*********

Alright, now it's time for the things I didn't particularly care for.

Thumbs Down: The F'ing Loading Screens

The waits with the loading screen were loooooooong. Coming from a Sly 1, 2 and 3 that didn't have this issue, this was a rough transition. Platformers of this time didn't have loading screens like this. Granted, I've never played Ratchet and Clank (that's next), but the Jak series never had these issues. It was a total shame to see Sly have such long, drawn out loading screens.

Thumbs Down: Murray's Character "Arc"

Sly and Bentley were characters that underwent some massive development in the first three games. But, out of everyone in the Cooper Gang, Murray had the best story in the trilogy.

He went from being the 'fat guy' of the bunch who only wanted snacks in Sly 1, and was generally a nuisance in that game, to being "The Murray" in Sly 2. Opening up Sly 2 with this newfound confidence was a big positive to Murray's character. You got to see that confidence throughout the entire game — even after being an experiment to the Contessa. At the end of the game, Murray helps Bentley. And moving to the third game, you see him leaving the gang and grappling with guilt over his friend's injury.

His journey in the third game is really special. He vows to live a peaceful life with meditation and training by his guru. However, Bentley gets hurt by Don Octavio, and 'The Murray' returns. "I'm going to floss my teeth with your spine." Murray is back and better than ever. In the third game, he really grows.

And in the fourth game? He's back to the 'fat guy' who loves snacks and can punch things. The Sanzaru writers give him this weird character arc, if you want to call it that. He can't climb up an ice wall... so they bring the ice-climbing Bob Cooper in. All of a sudden, Murray feels useless and is depressed — Bentley even tells him to come back for a snack at the safe house. At the end of the level, Murray is the hero, beating The Grizz all on his own. Everyone gives him praise. Murray says he's been a screw up. Bentley goes on this monologue about how everyone makes mistakes. Yawn.

Murray has the least exciting missions, in my opinion, in Sly 4, and that's really a shame considering how useful he was in Sly 3. Who can forget the mission where he gets his beloved van back? The Geisha mission was funny, don't get me wrong, but Murray seemed like the character that Sanzaru didn't know what to do with. That's a shame.

Thumbs Down: The Boss Fights

Talk about yawn. The boss fights weren't anything to write home about. In terms of difficulty, The Grizz was probably the toughest — and I only say that because of the ice blocks and the limited time you have to hit Grizz with them.

El Jefe was a fine boss fight but, again, not very tough. Toothpick was annoying, and everyone rolled their eyes by the second, third and fourth time he yelled, "Who turned on that blasted whistle!?" Grizz was already mentioned, but the whole 'I want to be a figure skater' was ... weird. It came out of nowhere. Penelope — uh, ahem, the Black Knight — was a snoozefest. Miss Decibel provided some challenge with the thief costume, but was otherwise another easy boss.

And don't even get me started on the joke that was the Le Paradox 'boss' fight at the end. Talk about easy.

The Bosses backstories were fun enough — particularly how Decibel was making fake lineage papers for Le Paradox, or how an Eastern European thug like Toothpick loved the old West — but the fights? Pretty darn lame.

Here's how I rank the boss fights in terms of difficulty: (1) The Grizz, (2) El Jefe, (3) Miss Decibel, (4) Penelope/The Black Knight, (5) Toothpick and (6) Le Paradox.

Thumbs Down: Penelope... To an Extent.

Penelope turning against the Cooper Gang isn't that shocking — and it wasn't a bad move by Sanzaru in Sly 4.

OK, let me give you a second to catch your breath.

Listen, Penelope is prone to doing this. She is a liar when you first meet her, after all. She claims to want to bring down the Black Barron and help the Cooper Gang, and then she's revealed to be the Black Barron. She ditches that life and joins the Cooper Gang. Eventually, she falls for Bentley and the rest is history.

Then, in Sly 4, you find out that Bentley and Penelope were making a time machine and suddenly, she disappeared. I don't mind this twist. It's a nice twist in the game and it sets you up for another betrayal by the RC specialist.

Before we get to the actual revelation of the betrayal, the game kind of spoils it that Penelope is the Black Knight. First off, "Black Barron" and "Black Knight" are pretty similar monikers. But also, during one of the load screens, it's shoved in your face that "Penelope once disguised herself as a the Black Barron." I don't know about anyone else, but i felt like I got this loading screen a bunch during the Medieval England level... before the revelation.

Now, let's talk about the revelation. The scene plays out that she hops out of the Black Knight machinery to get some air. Bentley, doing some maneuvering in the ceiling rafters, sees her. She goes into this ramble:

"If only Bentley hadn't been brainwashed by Cooper's 'honorable thief' nonsense, we could have made billions in weapon design! The two most brilliant minds on the planet working together? We could have owned the world! No matter. Once Cooper's out of the way, he'll see things my way. Poor Bentley, he's kinda cute when he's being dumb."

I don't hate this! This is actually really good! I've seen on Reddit that it's about a year between Sly 3 and Sly 4. Penelope probably had an idea in her head that she and Bentley were going to make a time machine and really cash in. That didn't happen. She got frustrated and she left. Not the way I would have done it, but it's not out of character for Penelope. She literally disguised herself as a grown man to get her way and be in a flying tournament.

But here's where the issue lies. When she and Bentley are speaking during the boss fight, there is a major contradiction. Take a look below.

The big issue: Bentley calls out Penelope for leaving him and joining Le Paradox for the money. And Penelope tells him, "No, you're not listening. He's just a means to an end." Uh... yeah, that's literally exactly what Bentley said. Le Paradox being a means to an end means that he is a cash cow to Penelope.

And Bentley hit it on the spot. Le Paradox was going to dump Penelope, whether she succeeded against the Cooper Gang or not. At the end, when Le Paradox describes the new machine he uses for time travel, he says, "Look at this, my marvelous contraption: The Time Tunnel. Something else I had your little friend Penelope develop before her unfortunate failure."

Cyrille Le Paradox only sees Penelope as someone who makes stuff for him. That's it. Who knows if he was even going to pay her.

Needless to say, the one line of dialogue about being a "means to an end" could have been taken out, and I wouldn't have hated this decision by Sanzaru. But, with the addition, it creates more headache than necessary.

Thumbs Down: The Never-Ending Talking

Some of the things that the characters say is pretty funny. I think there's a line where Tennessee says that getting in the thick of a fight is more fun than square-dancing with a donkey. But the talking is never-ending, even in the run of play. This is a game about stealth. It's not about listening to the characters talk every 10 seconds.

Also, let's add this note in this section: Sly is way too cocky in this game. And his lack of seriousness can get annoying. When he comes face-to-face with Le Paradox for the first time in Arabia, his first words to him are, "And may you always stay downwind."

There's been so much that has happened up until this point... and the first thing that Sly can do is make fun of Le Paradox for being a skunk?

Even in the boss fights, the talking is just too much. "I don't know what's scarier: El Jefe, or his bad jokes." "Hey Penelope! I think I saw some rust spots!" And let's not forget the 80 million times you hear this phrase: "Here comes the Grizz!"

Final Thoughts on Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time

This game is not perfect, but I think a lot of things were done right with Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time.

I really love the look of the game, from the graphics to the cutscenes to the designs of the ancestors and the locations. The story is pretty compelling for the most part and I love the idea of Cyrille Le Paradox wanting to erase the Cooper's from history because Sly's dad cucked his dad — thief-wise, that is.

The writing could use some work. Undoubtedly. But I'm playing Sly 4 for the game play and a compelling story, and I got that. I really enjoyed this game, despite the rough ending and lame Le Paradox boss fight.

I don't blame Sanzaru for the cliffhanger as Sony really screwed over franchises during the 2010s. Evidently the creators were expected to at least have a DLC to solve the 'Sly in Egypt' issue, but the promise was broken.

I enjoyed the game. I would definitely enjoy replaying it. I hope we do, one day, get a Sly 5 to figure out how to get our thieving Raccoon out of Egypt.

I would give Sly Cooper (4): Thieves in Time... a score of 4.5/5.

[theoriginalivyannazimuth]

EDIT: Video here - https://youtu.be/RjJW1jkfSfA

So I am making a review for the Thieves in time game and one part of it as how I would rewrite the game while sticking to Sanzaru's vision to make it less shitty, and because I can't just leave the screen empty as I do it, I drew a bunch of frames for like a semi animatic. Here are some of my favourites, don't roast me, this isn't supposed to be amazing quality or anything, but I thought I would share some of these while I am editing because I like them.

I may turn some of these into actual drawings at some point, but I am not sure which one.

[shiningwizard]

Sanzaru (Xia Magnus, 2020)

Live-in nurse discovering secrets of the house she’s been brought to live in. This was decent but lacking somehow, somewhere. Suspense was there, realisation of the supernatural was there, it was dreary, it was sincere, the mystery’s explanation was passable. Good just not good enough.

[daddyhiccup]

I wanna give my opinion on Thieves in Time

So j went into the Sly Cooper tag on a whim to see what was going on, and to my genuine surprise, it was full of a lot of discourse on Thieves in Time. No idea why or what prompted it. But I want to throw my hat into the ring.

I don't dislike Thieves in Time; I just don't like that Thieves in Time is where the series ended. I legitimately enjoyed Thieves in Time, I liked playing through it. I didn't thunk that it was perfect or anything, but as far as j was concerned, the game didn't commit any sins too great that they couldn't be fixed in the sequel that Sanzaru promised us.

Now here we are, six and a half years later, and not a peep of a Sly 5. That's what botheres me about Thieves in Time. That it ended the series on a cliffhanger that never got followed up upon.

[brensey]

Adventures in the comments section

I didn’t think that fervent Sly4/Sanzaru stans still existed until I posted this drawing:

...and got this response:

I guess the Sly4/Sanzaru cheerleaders are making a resurgence or something? LOL