In the isolation of this quarantine, I’m gonna resurrect THIS old ass argument.
“Can Spike still rightfully end up with Buffy after his actions, and if he can’t, isn’t the same true for Angel?” and “Is Spuffy as meaningful as or even compare to Bangel?”.
The following “conversation” is hypothetical and “person” represents most of the arguments I’ve seen people on the other side of this make.
Person: I don’t see how anyone could possibly ship Buffy and Spike after the bathroom scene.
Me: He didn’t have a soul when he did that. Once he does have a soul, the evil he did is no longer his fault unless he repeats the behavior, but their slow-burned bond and her eventual love for who he becomes in Chosen is real. It’s canon that she fell in love with him when their fingers locked before his death if you take Joss’s words as truth, and even if you don’t and need something to be solidified on the program to accept it as canon, interpreting what Buffy felt in those last moments as romantic love is no more or less provable than the “she was just saying it to make Spike feel better” take. It makes complete sense that Spike thought she was lying after all of his experiences, though. That’s part of his own tragedy. That angst is part of why we love them as a pairing.
Person: Wow look at you making excuses for one of the worst things someone can possibly do. There’s no going back after that. Idc what the plot did to justify his actions, and it’s despicable to think that the show would still give them anything resembling a love story after that. Boo hoo about his little tragedy. Am I supposed to feel bad after what he tried to do to her?
Me: Okay fine, I see your point. I don’t see how anyone could possibly ship Buffy and Angel after he went on a killing spree meant to emotionally torture her, targeted her friends and family, KILLED JENNY and not only got off on the pain it inflicted on Buffy’s father figure but set it up to be as devastating for Giles as humanly possible, and almost brought Hell on Earth which would have killed millions in global genocide all for his twisted amusement. I don’t see how anyone could feel bad about him having a sword driven through him and pulled into Acathla after what he tried to do to Buffy, to her loved ones, and to the entire fucking world. Oh also he tried to drive a sword into her face right before her badass comeback.
Person: He didn’t have a soul when he did that. It’s not Angel’s fault what Angelus does. It’s not really him, but Bangel’s epic eternal love at first sight is real and will never die.
Me: ....
Person: ... It’s different because Spike is a little more human even when he doesn’t have a soul.
Me: Does that mean he deserves less credit or more? :/ :/
Person: ANGEL AND ANGELUS IS DIFFERENT FROM SOULLESS SPIKE AND SPIKE.
Me: Nah same lore same rules breh. Soulless Spike seems more human because William was a sentimental sap and hopeless romantic when he was sired and so Spike was a deranged version of that personality, but still a demon and still wired to do evil, no matter how deeply he feels for someone. Liam was a self-indulgent douche who lived primarily for his own satisfaction when he was sired and thus became Angelus. Like in life, Angelus in death gave into all of his wicked cravings but without guilt or remorse. Who Spike and Angel are without a soul fits who they were with a soul perfectly within the rules of Buffyverse vampirism. But Soulless Spike is still Soulless Spike, he is still supernaturally coded to be a monster, and his ensouled version deserves the same level of forgiveness or lack thereof as his grandsire. If you don’t think Buffy should be with someone who’s done unspeakable things regardless of the supernatural reason for it, fine, but that’s not what you’re saying.
Me: The bathroom scene was hard to watch but an important turning point because he realized that in his chipped state he can’t be his fully monstrous self nor can he be a good man. His options were to get the chip removed and be William the Bloody again, or get his soul and attempt to be a good man. The decision he made was something Angelus would never do, which I could use to say Spike is just better, but really they’re just different people with different motives. Bangel and Spuffy present the same issues with the concept of being pardoned via soul and if either vampire is really “worthy” of her romantic affections, no matter how much you try to twist Buffy/Spike as the more unshippable pairing to suit your own preference on which character Buffy should have a future with.
Person: ARE YOU SAYING SEASON 6 SPUFFY WASN’T TOXIC?!
Me: Nah it definitely was, but Spuffy fandom in large part really doesn’t want Buffy to end up with season 6 Spike. Many of us think their “relationship” when he was soulless was *entertaining* and added character depth, and that they had real moments of connection in the midst of the ugliness, but most of us recognize how unhealthy it was and that it was no recipe for happily-ever-after. Irl there would be no turning back but also irl people are not literal demons who can go and win a soul to make up for some missing piece of them, just as Angel’s situation would also not happen in our reality.
Me: A lot of us DO want her to end up with fully actualized soul-having Spike as he was by the end of season 7, in season 5 of Angel, and post series. Bangel is the passionate all-consuming first love story, but they NEVER achieved the level of understanding and full realization of the other that Spuffy ultimately did. Probably in part because Buffy was a fuckin’ high school teenager when Bangel happened, but that’s vampire genre for ya.
Me: The speech Spike gave Buffy in Touched is something Angel could NEVER deliver at any point we’ve seen them, because Angel never knew her the way Spike did, and Buffy’s conceptualization of Angel is super idealistic and passion-charged, lacking the full range of understanding she has of Spike, probably because, again, she was a fuckin’ high school teenager when Bangel happened.
Me: If she loves both of them, which I believe she does and the creator of the verse believes she does, it would take years for Buffy and Angel to discover and know each other to the depths that Buffy and Spike already do. Never mind that Buffy and Angel changed - they didn’t even know each other THAT well when they were together. The more Angel the Series dives into the whole of Angel, the more clear that becomes, and Buffy wasn’t anywhere near her full growth when he left for LA. Why go back and rebuild Buffy’s first major relationship when Spike is right there, the feelings are developed enough to where if she said “I absolutely do love you and you were wrong for doubting it” it wouldn’t seem wild whatsoever, and the natural romantic endpoint of her journey has more substance there? Because you just like Bangel more? Cool! You do you, but Buffy/Angel is still in no way the morally superior tv couple.
Me: Also, not to be a dick on that whole love-at-first-sight deal, but it’s canon that Angel loved her the moment he saw her, which is weird to me since the first time he saw her was watching her creepily from a distance when she was 15 years-old in a short skirt and literally sucking on a lollipop.
Okay so I’m just being a prick with that last part because that too is a byproduct of 90s TV and vampire genre.
“Bangel or Spuffy” is mostly a “which type of fictional relationship do I vibe with?” based debate. Bangel is one of those epic earth-shattering-consuming-my-whole-being-at-first-kiss romances, and the people who love that kinda thing will be inclined to support them, and I do love Angel as a whole.
What I will always fight, no matter how old this subject and these shows get, is this wack idea that there are problems within Spuffy that make it more unshippable than Bangel, or even more hilariously that Buffy “deserves” better than Spike and yet “deserves” Angel.
Though, if you tell me you think she’s too good for both of them, you have a much stronger case there, but that doesn’t make me love Spuffy any less, nor would it make someone else stop loving Bangel.
