#spn 11.14

[straightedgesavior434]

Oh LuciCas and Crowley are doing puppy play, that’s good

[mittensmorgul]

Hi, I have a question, and I hope it would be interesting for you too... Could we talk about angel's wings and feathers?..

I always thought that angel's wings were a part of their true form, a kind of energy which we can only see as a shadows or electric sparks or ash or something like this.

And I didn't think that it could be a real wings with feathers as bird's. Until, while rewatch, I've noticed that angel's feather were mentioned in SPN at least twice (maybe you've noticed more?):

1) In 8.12 when Henry Winchester time travels he uses an angel feather in spell. And then Dean tells that Henry stole an angel feather from the trunk of the Impala. So feathers are reall??? Why did the Winchestets keep the feather in the trunk of the Impala and where they get it? (ok, maybe they found it in the bunker)

2) In 12.13 Sam uses a white feather in spell returning Gavin back in time (we know this spell needs an angel feather)

So now we can see how the real angel feather looks like???

Does that mean that the angel's wings can be presented in physical world like a real wings with feathers and this is not fanfiction? I like this idea so much.

I think that the creators of the show didn't let us to see it, as many other great things, that is sad...

I would really like to know your thoughts about this.

(Sorry for my bad english, it is not my native language...)

Hi there! First off, your English is fine! (lol it’s my native language, and I just typed it “Inglish” by accident, so you’re already doing better than I am :’D)

ETA: DON’T REBLOGGY THIS YET. I forgotted something that @thayerkerbasy just reminded me of, and I’m editing this post... brb... okay NOW YOU CAN REBLOGGY!)

As far as I know, those are the only times in canon we ever see or hear mention of an angel feather, and both times it’s for the same exact spell. They reference that it’s Henry’s spell when they use it again in 12.13, but make no mention in dialogue of it being an angel feather. Yet Sam had a whole jar of fluffy little pin feathers, so the assumption is that they’d been collecting them for a while (unless those were either found in the Men of Letters’ spell ingredient stockpile when they moved into the bunker, or otherwise given to them by Cas at some point).

It’s weird, because they seem like a very limited commodity, especially after the angels fell and their wings all burned up. Even after Cas got his original grace back, his wings never seemingly recovered. When we did finally see his wing prints in 12.23, they were still... not healthy... So my thinking is that any spell that would require them will become impossible to cast when their current supply runs out. All the other angels-- at the end of the series-- were either dead or locked in Heaven with their broken wings. We never learned any of their fates. Maybe they were all rendered obsolete under the Heaven Remodel?

A little behind the scenes from the early days of SPN as a bonus, since it’s tangentially relevant:

When they were filming the very early episodes of SPN, they had a lot of choices to make about what to show us based on what their budget would allow them to portray. Think of an episode like Wendigo, 1.02. One thing I see people say often was that it was a shame we didn’t see more of the monster, but only saw like... bushes shaking, or a vague form moving through the underbrush, or a blur. They made a stylistic choice right there to keep it within budget.

The options they faced were showing us a “dude in a rubber mask” type monster and showing it more, versus one really terrifying shot of a Proper Monster™ dying in spectacular fashion. Rather than go full-on cheesemonster, they chose to leave most of it up to our imaginations, giving us glimpses or hints of the monster.

They went back and forth on this a bit over the years, attempting to show us more on occasion, but most of those times the audience reaction has been varying degrees of wtf... Think about some of the scenes where they attempted to give us more than a glimpse at the supernatural, or a blood splatter, or whatever. It didn’t always work well. Think: the wire fight from 13.23...

I mean, it took us until 11.14 to ever see an angel “flap away,” when we saw Casifer zap Dean off the exploding submarine.

For the most part, I appreciate the fact that they understood the limitations of their own budget and didn’t give angels cheap little wings just to be able to show them on camera. Over time, only being able to see them as shadows, or as char after the angel died, became part of the lore of the show.

I blame Adam Glass for writing that spell, because he probably thought it sounded cool or whatever, that it was effectively a throwaway line because no other spell they’ve ever used has required an angel feather as an ingredient, and in story it was only linked into this larger Men of Letters Legacy plot that in retrospect feels like Chuck tying up loose ends and putting previously “deactivated” plotlines back into play.

I do find it kind of interesting that both iterations of this spell (the second resurrected by Bucklemming) were both tied to Abaddon. Henry’s spell in 8.12 brought her into the story from the past, she eventually travelled to the much further distant past to bring Gavin into the present (presumably with her own power alone, no angel feather required), and then after she was killed, they used the spell to return Gavin to his own time. So in a a way, the spell was part of a closed narrative loop, never to be referred to again.

Kinda wild that we’d never heard of angel feathers being a thing for spells until we learn that Dean apparently had some just stashed in the trunk, though... :’D

As for how corporeal angel feathers are/were, they exist in the earthly plane enough to leave char marks when they burn, when an angel is killed, so they must always have had the potential to manifest physically. I can’t imagine they ever would’ve had a budget to show us anything more than what we usually saw, though. It did give them a LOT of flexibility over how exactly they presented them to us when they DID show us. And I can’t even imagine the suffering Misha would’ve endured as an actor spending all those years wearing some weird wing harness rig. It would’ve been... impractical. And the CGI the show could’ve afforded-- especially in earlier days-- would’ve been... bad...

But what they were able to show us? Was often awesome. Remember when Raphael showed off his wings in 5.03? LIGHTNING!

And when we finally did see actual corporeal-appearing wings in 8.23... it was Dramatique™

And for More CGI Is Sometimes A Bad Thing Science, please have the attempt at Michael’s “true form” from 14.01:

It’s kinda a super-letdown after AU!Michael’s previous shadow wing displays from 13.01, but more specifically from 13.22:

those... were... badass... 

Even the pre-wire-fight wing shadows on Dean were badass:

But if they’d tried to show us more of them, to make them move through action scenes for example, it would’ve been... bad...

So what we’re left with is the knowledge that there is some sort of corporeal element to wings that we simply can’t see most of the time, but clearly angels have the ability to show or hide them at will, even from other angels. Could it be an act of will on the part of the angel that manifests a bit of their grace in the form of a physical feather? Honestly, that’s the theory I’ve personally adopted toward canon. In fanfic, I’ve read tons of various headcanons about what angel wings are and how they function-- everything from “a manifestation of their true form” to “angels share a lot of traits with birds” to “an extension of their grace,” and everything in between.

I personally, in canon, like to think of it as akin to how they’ve used angel grace for other spells. I mean, when we recall that angels haven’t been on Earth much for the last few thousand years (aside from at least a couple of known incidents where angels interfered with humanity, like Ishim and Company in 12.10, for example, and the presumptive extension that the Men of Letters knew of the existence of angels and likely summoned one up a time or two the same way Lily Sunder had, giving one explanation for how Henry Winchester knew of this spell and had an angel feather to use for it, but also recontextualized when Lily Sunder taught us that humans can use their own souls to power spells in the same way angels used their grace... which sort of makes the notion of needing an angel feather AND his own soul to charge that particular spell in 8.12 a bit redundant unless Lily’s knowledge of angelic magic was more advanced than Henry’s... hrmpf.... so much tangent... back to the point)...

We did eventually learn of other spells that required an angel’s actual grace, not concentrated in the form of a feather. The Angel Fall Spell in 8.23 being the prime example. Metatron took ALL of Cas’s grace for that one, even if he didn’t use all of it for the spell and left a “fragment” (Metatron described it as “not a lot, but enough.”). 

ETA: HECK. I have 9.03 on the tv right now and it’s distractedly made me disgusted enough to have forgotten something that Thayer just reminded me of: Lucifer’s “fossilized feather” in 12.07. It held enough grace to restore and heal him after Rowena’s spell in 12.03 had degraded him. Which really only adds to the theory that “feathers” are simply bits of grace that have been rendered solid somehow, but that can be transformed back into grace as needed.

And then there was the Rift Spell for travelling to alternate universes that required archangel grace, as well as the time travel/ward breaking spell that Sam found in 11.14 that ALSO required archangel grace specifically. Would these spells have worked with an archangel “feather?” Possibly, if material feathers are somehow just crystalized bits of grace, but since we never got a full explanation in canon, and never even really saw corporeal feathery wings that dropped feathers or could be plucked, and never even had mention of corporeal feathers outside of their use in this single spell, it’s really up to our own interpretation. And I kind of like it that way, because that way we get to have fun little discussions like this one. :D

I know this isn’t a definitive answer, but it’s how it all makes sense to me, in the hand-wavey sort of way that all of canon works. :’D

[demonologist-in-denim]

As Lucifer’s prisoner and dog, Crowley knows the Winchesters will come. They’ll come to save Cas. Not him, of course. But they’ll still come. Because that’s what they do - save the world, and the people in it worth saving. Crowley just doesn’t happen to be one of them.

[holisticfansstuff]

Misha playing Lucifer playing Castiel ?

Love it

[thebratfarrar]

The Vessel - John Badham

[mittensmorgul]

11.14, The Vessel.

Possibly the most aptly named episode of s11... so many vessels within vessels, I could cry. :')

This is also the point at which I am confident that Dabb had taken over the showrunning, and the story had completed it's turn toward the end run we saw unfold by 11.23. Because in retrospect, so much of that was foreshadowed through this episode.

Dean had to go alone. He talked Sam out of accompanying him. Cas was unable to accompany him (both because he was possessed by Lucifer at this point, but also because he was unable to penetrate the warding on the sub). Dean was the only one who could complete this mission involving a source of power capable of immense destruction (in this case, a Hand Of God weapon connected to and protected by a sigil carved into Delphine's body and directly connected to her own life force, in 11.23 the soul bomb implanted in Dean's body turning him into a walking weapon).

And Dean USED HIS WORDS to resolve the entire conflict, destroy the enemy, and convinced everyone on that sub of his mission.

This was also effectively the beginning of Dean's first period of mourning for Cas in Dabb Era. The first incarnation of What Losing Cas Means To Dean. And that will also evolve through each new incarnation-- from this, to Cas leaving in 12.03 (also written by bobo), to Cas leaving him at the end of 12.19 (hey, also written by bobo), to 13.01 and what Dean believes is the last hopeless loss of Cas. What a journey we're embarking on!

[mittensmorgul]

Destiel relationship development is shown each time Cas dies. #1 he explodes and dean is bummed. #2 the leviathan drag him into the water. Dean takes the coat with him and has a quivering lip bobby-“you just lost the best friend you ever had” #3 dean fights like hell to find him in purgatory and cant contain his joy when he’s alive #4 died in s12 Dean couldn’t even function Had no faith, wanted to die. Destiel is a fricken slow burn but its sure as hell burning! We’re on the right track!!!

OOH. But I have some addenda to this:

1. He explodes (in 4.22), Dean is bummed in 5.01, but also angry and inspired to fight in Cas’s name (*blasts Zachariah with a banishing sigil* Learned that from my friend Cas, you son of a bitch.)

2. He explodes again (in 5.22), and Dean is distraught, but his problems are only escalating. Lucifer/Sam kills Bobby a moment later, and Dean’s still gotta stand up to FUCKING LUCIFER so this is no time to break down and cry, you know? And by the time Sam takes back control and flings himself into Hell, Dean’s got... nothing, and then Cas comes back, heals him and Bobby, and then flaps off again. But Dean’s made a “dying wish” type promise to Sam to get out of the life, to get out of hunting, and live normal... so he lets Cas go... (WORST. PROMISE. EVER. oh my god, I’m still bitter over that.)

3. in 7.01, it looks like Cas is dead for a hot minute right after he returns the souls to Purgatory. Dean looks like he’s gonna cry, and then miraculously, Cas resurrects (again!) This is about the most painful thing in the world, because he gets to be alive for like... three whole minutes before...

4. in 7.02 the Leviathans walk him into that lake and explode him... This is the first time Dean wonders if Cas really isn’t gonna come back, you know? He had THREE TIMES before this, but as the days turn to weeks and Cas isn’t back, he’s got to be wondering. Except... through that whole time, through that long string of stolen cars, during a year when Dean had just about everything (including his own identity) stripped from him HE STILL CARRIES CAS’S COAT WITH HIM. *cries forever about a desperately-in-need-of-laundering overcoat* (come on, you know that thing was drenched in Dean’s tears, okay? he cried A LOT in s7))

5. Purgatory. and then everything AFTER Purgatory, through brainwashing (a kind of death of personhood) right up through 8.23  and “So, what, ET goes home?” and just *rips out own heart because it hurts less*

6. Not really a death, but in 11.01/11.02/11.03 when-- despite the terrifying and unknown threat of the Darkness-- he’s still primarily driven by worry/fear over Cas. He knows Cas is in trouble, and in 11.01 his primary reason for wanting to kill the “zompires” and escape the hospital is so they can find and help Cas. This only gets more intense as...

7. Post 11.14, when he learns that Cas has been possessed by Lucifer. Finding and Saving Cas becomes Dean’s ONLY mission for most of the rest of s11. Sure, Cas isn’t dead, but HECK, you know?

8. 12.19/12.20, Dean’s terror that Jack has “done something” to Cas, and rendered Cas unable to assert his own will, brings back horrors of s8 when Cas was being controlled by Naomi. Leading us up to the horrific angst of...

9. 12.23. This was the first time that Dean had seen Cas die by angel blade. This was the first time he’d seen Cas with the full burnt-out wingprints. Somewhere deep down, Dean knew this was different. This wasn’t something Cas would just miraculously pop back from. God wasn’t answering the phone anymore, and Dean had no hope that Cas could come back from this. He burnt him.

This was the first time he’d had a body to burn. The first time he’d had to wrap Cas and build a pyre and watch him burn. “What’s burned stays dead.” (which is such a disturbing thing when we’re talking about the slowest of slow burns here)

Until it doesn’t.

But yeah, Dean was ready to die in relatively short order when he thought Cas was gonna be gone for good. But then he came back... and not everything is all just hunky-dory, but heck... at least he’s back.

And now it’s Dean who needs saving from Michael, very much like Cas needed saving from Lucifer in s11. It’s time to see this situation reversed.

[mittensmorgul]

i saw the promo for 14x10 and i thought about how theyre going into deans head and i thought how funny itd be if it was like that teen titans episode where they go in ravens head and meet the different aspects of her personality through different versions of her and if they did that with dean lol

I don’t know what teen titans is D:

(I am old...)

I think they’re gonna handle it sort of like they handled Crowley in Casifer’s head and in Sam’s head when he evicted Gadreel.

Just telling Michael to get out doesn’t work the way it did with Gadreel (maybe because he’s an archangel, maybe because of the way Dean phrased the deal, maybe because of something we don’t know yet...). And we don’t know if Cas could’ve just told Lucifer to get out. Cas had a REALLY difficult time even coming to the surface in 11.14 to stop Lucifer from killing Sam, and in 11.18 he was completely incapable of even caring what happened to him because he still believed that only Lucifer could defeat the Darkness and was content to just... give up like that, and therefore didn’t even try to evict Lucifer.

But I think Rocky’s Bar there is where Michael’s stashed Dean this time to keep him “quiet.” Because if Michael thinks Dean would be content to surrender out of hopelessness or something now, he doesn’t know Dean very well...