#stage 1!killer

[theartsynebulawhodoodles]

ｓｏｍｅｔｈｉｎｇ ｎｅｗ

{Something New AU Art-no ship}

Closeups 𓏲𝄢

Something new belongs to Rahafwabas, dividers either sister Lucifer or other creators who labeled it as reblog/like/free to use

[somethingnewarchive]

Here’s where everything Killer Sans and Undertale:Something New is archived. There’s the tags to try and find things of course, which might be out of order and misplaced (especially if the tags aren’t working), but in the meantime here’s a masterpost and here’s a Google Doc not made by me.

[howlsofbloodhounds]

I’m not an expert on characters like Murder and Horror, so those who are who happen to come upon this can correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ll try my best to answer.

For Killer, the answer is a very big yes. In his comics, Killer thinks to himself things like how he can’t be Sans, because Sans wouldn’t kill Papyrus—and this is one of the reasons why he knows he’s “different.” In asks, it’s revealed that Killer doesn’t think he has earned the right to be called Sans again or to ever change his name from Killer. He talks about how he wants to change in his Good Ending—how he wants to be Sans again, and begs Color to help him with doing that.

(To which Color seems to think the way to do that is to somehow fix Killer’s soul—suggesting that the way Killer’s soul was unwillingly changed without his consent had a major effect on Killer’s sense of identity and perception on himself. On top of that, his code—like in a video game, meta sense—was altered from his normal coding to “k1ll_sans,” and we see that code seems to be tied to, potentially “active,” depending on what state (Stage) his soul is in.)

On top of that, there’s the whole “two personalities” thing. A lot of debates in the fandom on what exactly this is supposed to be or represent, but most seem to agree that it is dissociative in nature—so the idea of this character, Sans, having developed a dissociative disorder due to the events of this timeline (Something New timeline) isn’t too far fetched.

According to Google, “Dissociative disorders are mental health conditions that involve a loss of connection between thoughts, memories, feelings, identity, behavior, and surroundings. They can involve involuntary escape from reality and are often linked to breakdowns in memory, awareness, identity, or perception.”

So yes, Killer does not consider himself Sans—or at least, not the Sans he was, and he seems to consider himself different from both alternate timeline Sanses and especially from alternate universe Sanses. This whole identity has a very big hold on his day to day life—Nightmare can use it to override his choices, perceptions, thoughts and emotions. Killer relies internally on these two “personalities” on making his own choices.

He seems to experience black outs and loss of control of his own body when encountering something that triggers his soul into Stage 4 (or when something triggers a flashback that winds up triggering that Stage).

He talks about himself in Stage 3 in a very removed, detached way—not as if it’s a different person entirely, but in a way that suggests that he either doesn’t have control over himself when in Stage 3, or that he doesn’t see any issues with anything he does when in Stage 3 or why he shouldn’t do it or not want to do it because it makes sense to him when he’s “like that.”

He talks about himself when in Stage 2 in a very similar—only with less emphasis on “immediately kill me” and more on “don’t trust me when I’m like that. Ever.”

For Horror, it’s to my understanding that he doesn’t really have any reason or need to consider himself not Sans—Horrortale doesn’t seem to dive much into AU stuff canonically. I do know he seems to have some type of amnesia and/or memory issues, as well as seemingly a bit of a personality change—but that seems to be due to both his skull injury, his current situation and environment, and the trauma of his attempted murder and betrayal of his two friends.

But his identity and sense of self seems to be mostly intact—he is Sans, even if he may or may not remember long stretches of his life before the events of Horrortale.

As for Murder, he also seems to have an intact identity and sense of self—he is Sans—but just different, thanks to time, trauma and stress, as well as his own actions and choices driven by his own desperation. I remember reading somewhere that he just doesn’t like who he was before.

As for Delta and Color, this one’s a little tricky, as not only has that type of stuff not been very picked into in their canons (and Delta has very little), but they also absorbed human souls—souls that belonged to entirely separate, developing beings with their own personalities, senses of selves, experiences and memories, and therefore likely their own motivations, desires, narrative and interpretations of events, goals, dreams, and voices.

I know Gaster still calls Color by “Sans” in the canon Othertale material—but like Horror, it’s not actually canon that Color ever leaves his universe and starts meeting and interacting with other alternate universe characters, besides his encounter with Core Frisk in the Void. He’s also aware of alternate timelines, but not alternate universes.

Not to mention—Color (or Sans) would’ve realistically spent about two decades of his life completely trapped in the Void and isolated from the rest of the world, both physically but also in their own memories.

The person he was doesn’t even exist or matter to anyone else in Othertale. This is bound to cause some identity issues, on top of the dissociating and daydreaming that the trauma and stress and just loss of everything he knows is bound to have—already with the six human souls layered on top like a fucked up identity cake.

We know that superyoumna has said that the souls is not like “multiple personalities,” but adding traits on top of Sans (possibly in a way that makes Color), and we have seen a few drawings of that in action—“you’re filled with Kindness”—and although nothing obviously changed other than the color of Color’s flames and eyelight, it does seem have an almost possessive effect on Color and his behaviors when that happens.

To the point that he’d disregard others boundaries and others saying no in an attempt to be kind, almost in the way a friendly but excited child would—like, for example, very tightly and very suddenly hugging Cross even as Cross struggles, attempts to push Color off, tells him to get off, and calls him a freak.

For Delta, we do see the Bravery soul and Sans communicating—with Bravery encouraging and picking Sans up when his grief and depression stops him from wanting to keep fighting anymore. Gives me the idea that Delta is almost like a fusion from Steven Universe.

So i don’t think it’d be a stretch to potray Delta and Color with some various presentations of plurality/multiplicity, although it is not due to trauma or a dissociative disorder, even if the characters also have trauma (and will show signs of CPTSD and/or PTSD, with the possibility of the souls themselves also having their own memory, traumas, triggers, and flashbacks) and may experience dissociation and identity alteration, identity confusion, switching, co-con, blurred sense of self, fusion, passive influence, and/or just a sense of “becoming” different or someone else. It’d be very rooted in the elements of the fictional universe—magic, supernatural, souls.

[stellocchia]

A little headcanon I have about Killer's stages is that each of them has a different relationship with touch.

Stage 1 is touch starved as all Hell and is desperate for any positive interaction. However, he also struggles with it, both because every time someone approaches him, even if it's a friend, he has to fight the expectation of harm, and also because he's afraid the closeness may trigger one of the higher Stages (and he's then scared that they're the ones who are gonna go down the violent path).

There is nothing he wants more and less than a hug.

He probably has to introduce touch very slowly even once he's with Color. Start with fingers brushing against each other, leaning shoulder to shoulder, a head path here and there. Things like that.

Stage 2 feels rather detached from their body. They're overall rather indifferent to touch. Likely only paying attention to it when it hurts (that's why sometimes they find themselves craving the pain, it helps them stay grounded. It is not, in this case, a healthy coping mechanism. Stage 2 refuses to set proper boundaries and take care of their needs. It is not a priority for them. And they're hella self-destructive).

They tend to allow touch if they can gain something from it (be it a feeling of control from trying to suppress their trauma responses to certain types of touch, or tying someone to them).

If anyone ever doubted that they need a therapist, well, they do.

Stage 3 is pretty much a cat. As long as you play by its rules, you're both gonna be happy. If you do anything it doesn't approve of, you're getting bit. Hard. Stage 3 to me is mostly nonverbal (it often is unable to speak because of the condition of its soul and the panic needed to trigger the switch. It is not a choice for it not to speak, it genuinely cannot) so the bite is all the communication whoever is brave enough to cuddle it is gonna get that they did something wrong.

That said, one is mostly safe as long as they avoid the chest area (where the soul usually rests), the face (with the teeth so close, the temptation to bite just because it can is too strong to resist), and any fresh injuries.

It is not easy to gain enough of its trust to even get it to allow you close enough though. It doesn't matter how much Stage 3 may recognize that it needs support and closeness to keep the body healthy, its priority is fighting off the danger always. But Color and, in time, the rest of Chromatic Crew probably manage it.

Stage 4 is, without a doubt, the most compliant. At least toward whoever it identifies as its master, although if whoever that is orders it to stay still and let someone else touch it, it would. Stage 4 is, above all else, obedient. It likely does not even know if it likes touch or not, nor if it wants it or not. Not because it's in any way stupid, just because it doesn't see itself as a person, but as a tool. And tools don't have preferences, so why let itself wonder about such pointless things?

Any attempt at establishing its personhood is gonna be met with extreme resistance and likely also panic if it comes from its master-figure. The desire to obey them would end up in conflict with the orders of everyone that came before and if the two are too conflicting, Stage 4 is always gonna default to following Chara's orders as they were the one who molded it.

While Stage 2's issues could be helped by therapy, I don't know if that's the case for Stage 4. It would probably be better if Color just learned to work around them or with them to still give it a better life than before without its fight or flight instincts too much.

[stagesofkiller]

I think another reason killer may avoid and be wary of things such as sex—or any type of physical intimacy and affection, outside of his own general lack of sexual attraction and low libido—would be the worry that his body would not be able to tell the difference between fighting, killing, and sex and closeness.

Especially if penetration is involved. Being penetrated makes him feel weak, like prey—reminds the body of Nightmare shoving through him, squashing the SOUL into obedience and submission. Reminds the body of knives, of spears, of being stabbed, attacked, overpowered, killed.

Highly likely to trigger distress, flashbacks, dissociation—trigger his SOUL automatically into Stage 2. His body could lean hard into certain responses—either having learned to tense and go still, or violently lash out before he can consciously decide to do that. The body and magic can have reactions before he’s aware of it happening—convulsing, tensing, summoning the knives and bones, reaching for a throat.

Doing the penetrating is a little better—makes him feel in more control, like he has more power, added bonus of doing the acts of service to make someone feel good—but it’s still rife with programming triggers, Stage 2 triggers—but in the opposite direction of if he was being penetrated.

His mind and body may misread and misinterpret his partner, the body below him, as prey, as target, as potential to be a threat. The movements, the smells, the sounds, the look on their face.

This position makes him feel more secure sure, but it also widely swings his mindset into that of a killer’s. A weapon’s. A perpetrator’s.

A monster’s.

Movements can be misinterpreted as killing, as stabbing—anything that is interpreted as fear, or weakness, or escape can trigger instincts to subdue, capture.

Overpower.

So even if Killer consents while in Stage 1, even if he’s wanting, the second something triggers him into Stage 2’s mindset—a state where his consent is compromised—and he comes back to himself, he may react either disoriented, confused—or as if he had just killed someone.

It’s not something he really consciously decides to do—he’s in a body that has instincts that Killer doesn’t fully understand or control. It truly feels like it doesn’t belong to him anymore.

When he’s in Stage 2, this may be something he’s somewhat aware of— maybe not what exactly triggers what, because Stage 2 is a dissociative state and dissociating from the body is how Killer was ever able to survive let alone maintain some sanity, but aware that sometimes that body moves without him—but Killer may be prone to resignation of this fact. He may just be more prone to leaning into it, or finding a way to manipulate it to his advantage.

When he’s in Stage 1, however, he’s too aware of the body. Of what happens when he’s not present in it. He’s too aware that even mishearing a certain noise as something else—a moan as pain, a gasp confused for someone choking on their own blood, that sounds of someone’s last breaths—can trigger that a I’m killing them thought, can trigger his body and SOUL to act as they’ve been taught. Regardless of if he wants it or not. It doesn’t think or want, it just acts and reacts.

This is likely to plague every moment of his life—not just sex, but cuddling, hugs, things like that. Especially if they feel trapping, restraining, or overpowering. Especially if it takes him by surprise—such as hugs from behind.

This is in large part why Killer, once he’s in Stage 1, warns others—especially Color—not to trust him when he’s like that.

Especially because this awareness about it becomes compromised in higher Stages—he thinks he’s just standing there, but Color would notice the hands curling into claws, too blank stare trailing weak points like the jugular, how the body blocks the exits of every room so no one can escape.

In contrast, however, Color would have to be hyperaware of Killer’s body—its tells, its body language. Color cannot afford to not be aware of it—not when it puts his, Killer’s, and everyone else’s safety on the line. He has to take Killer’s warnings seriously—don’t trust him when he’s like that.

(For example, how Color was able to move fast enough to stop Killer from stabbing Abyss.)

So not only is Killer likely to question and doubt if he’s capable of feeling love—of any kind—anymore when he’s in Stage 2, but he’s also likely to question and doubt if the body he’s in even knows how to receive love.

[regnum-knight]

I think we all know who this is

[ask-codeearasure]

I always seem to think the best while I'm at work or it's 3 in the fucking morning.

Killer but he wants a new name and the Stages but they want their own names too. Probably wouldn't happen but there's always a slim chance they'd explore the notion far into the future of love and safety and where they learn to cut themselves some slack.

They probably would still collectively go by Killer, but have a list of names and nicknames along with it, like K, Kay, Kat, Strawberry, Krill, something related to a comfort of his or just a name he happens to like or finds funny.

But each Stage separately might still subscribe to the numbers pattern of names, particularly Stage 2 because that's my favorite motherfucker right now. Maybe he just likes being called Two in many languages, Dos being his most favorite.

Stage 3 I don't think would care about the names thing, but surprisingly Stage 4 is receptive to words in morse code in which it can communicate nonverbally and while it doesn't assign itself a name preference, perhaps it ends every message with a particular pattern or signal. It could be a vague sign it likes the look of or maybe a tune or specific sound.

Stage 1 would be the most indecisive of if they even want a name change or just another name seeing as they carry the bulk of the guilt for their past and have to fight themself to stop looking for punishments, death, or isolation. But if I look through this with the angelkin!Killer lens, perhaps he'd like something with a theme related to that (can't think of specific examples) or maybe a gemstone like Onyx or Ruby (playing off of dragonkin!Color's attachment to shiny priceless things)

-- Sarco

[howlsofbloodhounds]

One thing I wish we got to see about killer, and especially his relationship with both color and nightmare, is the escape planning period.

Now we all know Killer’s escape from Nightmare was not immediate. According to him, he took that time learning and searching for information on Nightmare—his weaknesses, perhaps anything to have as good enough leverage over the corruption’s head.

Just in case he tried anything or attempted to retaliate against Killer—and even then, with all that information, we see that Killer made sure not to go alone when confronting Nightmare about this. He brought Color, who was definitely not just there for moral or emotional support.

Killer was proven right about Nightmare’s attempt to retaliate, as his old Boss was definitely going to kill or severely injure Killer if Color hadn’t shown up (or revealed himself) with his Rainbow Beam. Which seems to have more than enough power to not only injure Nightmare, but prevent any further attempts to attack.

Helps that both Killer and Color definitely weren’t feeling any strong negative emotions that Nightmare could sense—given that Killer was in Stage 2 when he confronted him.

But more than that, Killer mentions that he had been helping and saving AUs behind Nightmare’s back for some time. Probably even helping defend them, helping residents rebuild. Helping make AUs more positive.

I would’ve loved to see that, because there’s definitely no way everyone would just trust and forgive Killer—even if they knew his situation or learn about it. And Killer would have to be confronted with the consequences and effects of everything he helped in.

Which also opens up conversations about responsibility for harmful actions taken under distress, coercion, intimidation, threat. Trafficking.

Killer would likely overcompensate and take responsibility for everything he did under Nightmare while in Stage 1, but we know that when he’s in Stage 2 he often finds a way to deflect responsibility—even for the things he does do without Nightmare’s orders.

The biggest sign of this is likely to be regarding Swap. And given how he talks about the Underground and everything that happened there whenever confronted about everyone he killed, and how he can never be a ‘good person,’ his only response is to shrug and say “it’s not my fault they are weak.”

This is in stark contrast to how he was thinking of everything in Stage 1, back when he gained more Determination than the Player and was able to control the RESET.

In Stage 1, he acknowledges what he’s planning to do—Reset to give everyone else, especially Papyrus, a Good Ending—as something along the lines of “fixing everything we did.”

There’s no acknowledgment of the lack of power and the elements of coercion—the past of physical and psychological torture that led him to ever agree to that Deal in the first place—from Killer in Stage 1 at all.

Hell, even when asked what Killer plans to do with his new life free from Nightmare, his only response is that he’s gonna “fix everything.”

Would’ve been interesting to see how Killer came to realizations and understandings about the effects he had on others with his actions—navigating that line between what wasn’t his fault, how some people may grapple with the knowledge of Killer’s lack of control and power of the situation with Nightmare but still unable to forgive or trust or like him.

The people Killer decided to hurt, and the people he didn’t hurt, and the people he hurt because someone else decided he would be the one to do it. Killer trying to learn and accept that—despite it still being his hands regardless—that distinction does in fact matter.

Forced perpetration trauma. But also how he made the choice to hurt others because he didn’t believe there was any other way that those people would listen to.

There could’ve been other options, maybe there even were other ways to handle it. But he just couldn’t see them, and couldn’t trust enough that they’d work.