Corruptiongate p.4: The vanishing never-existence of Jonathan Byers, Suzie Bingham, Barbara Holland — and the drama of the real finale + doppelgangergate
[ p.1, p.2, p.3 + visual erasure of Will in s2 ]
Jonathan seems to be a character created by the Lab to give Will a brother. Jonathan could be visually based on David Bowie and performing tasks of supporting him and also introducing Will to music, which would keep Will in the simulation.
(although I’m not sure that he as Jonathan acknowledges it, and probably is genuinely living in Nina and loves his ‘brother’)
But Jonathan isn’t just an empty hologram.
(meanwhile, notice how the colour palette of Jonathan’s room, including the Bowie shot, duplicates in Will’s t-shirt)
…Have you ever wondered why we love Robin so much?.. Why she is such a good friend to Will? Why she has basically substituted Jonathan for him? Why is she so good at music and even knows what Will would like, barely being acquainted to him?
(we’ve known for a long while that Holly is Mike, and who knows who’s Max atp, but Ig, this door also has a lock on it)
my og post with 👆 visual analysis + @beaulesbian meta finds
Robin is good at music like Jonathan, Robin likes Nancy like Jonathan, Robin is Will’s support like Jonathan. Robin knows the kids. Bc Rockin fucking Robin IS Jonathan.
And it’s Robin who plays Jonathan, not vice versa, bc👇 Steve and Robin are Brenner’s numbers 👇
(It can also explain the absence of their parents)
The way I see it is that Robin was placed in the hologram when, let’s say, Will needed a brother figure; as soon as he’d grown up, he got a queer friend who helped me where Jonathan could’ve but he wouldn’t understand Will that much. All this time it was one character, who was originally a girl, but changed their gender to fit in Will’s life.
Jonathan yearning for Nancy while Stancy, anyone? (now I even see Steve in Dan. And El)
this also explains why the characters keep quoting each other: sometimes it can be literally just one character, or it can be switching-arcs-s5 (like in @warmglowhc example of Dustin being Mike), or repeating storylines, mixed up with each other.
(do we still remember that Priah wasn’t that satisfied with Erica’s ending? could that be bc Erica is not real either?)
What fascinates me is the tendency of switching genders of the characters, depending on what was needed for Nina tv-season:
At this point I believe that Dustin is in the lab, same as Henry is 001; but Suzie and Barb are their versions needed for other characters for the plot.
❗️Along with this there’s a pretty solid evidence for stonathan endgame by @strange-anni which also matches Will’s erasure from the narrative; so far I’m not exactly sure how it aligns, but as there are also shots of Robin and Jonathan together, I believe in the simulation they can be duplicated (doppelgangergate, anyone?): like, here’s a nurse looking like Nancy, aside from Vickie being Nancy:
Ted and upper Hopper doppelgängers are from @erikiara80 (one, two) the last one is from my post here
and as for this gang, I’ve always felt like they are a crew here, so I even assumed that they might be just the “agent smiths”, however, as we’ve just seen, I still believe that just partly —
I think it’s gonna be the drama of the real finale:
some of our characters are just a program, but they’re attached to each other, they have feelings, and they might be not ready for this to end.
Stonathan might be endgame inside Nina, if Steve chooses to stay. Ronance will become endgame irl. Max’s been sus too long not to be a program, so does it speak in Lucas staying in Nina? (We’ve had theories that Lucas could’ve stayed with her version wherever she is, and somehow we’re back there?) If Steve stays for Jonathan, Dustin might stay for Steve. It also means that Eddie might get back into the picture, but generally we need to lock in sfm with doppelgängers, as it’s a huge hint at who’s real.
The ticket from Tales quite truly foreshadowed:
[ main corruptiongate posts ] [ other key theory posts ]
p.s. here’s one more genderbend and self-insert from this post by @lesikm
Just recently we have discussed that we don’t know why El was looking at the camera in Nina as if Brenner could see her: my assumption to that is that he also visits his holo-worlds.
tagging those who might be interested, if you don’t wanna be tagged, lmk 🫶🏻: @gritstartar @worldofsouthernwind @daeshikoba @rgwriter @alexiswrite @thisbarbieisineffable @ten-universe @sherlockbyers @iwakeupslowly @dawnschild @misspracticallydelulu @mike-wakes-up @bbghostbones @persistentmimicgrail @youaremess @sorafyr3 @slavless @cypher-heart-no-key @sidoniemoon @demogorgirl7 @beautifulsoulsaretaken @honeymandarin @cara-ti-amo @wrathfulstarlightcavern @artiandthebeat @lavenderlatte222
I'm convinced that T85 is some kind of vision for Mike, and everything we see is from his POV, which means that the Will we see is how Mike views Will.
I think the real Will is represented by Charlie.
What happens to Charlie in T85 mirrors Will's possession story and shows how he can be freed by Mike's love.
The first time we see Charlie, he's wearing a yellow hoodie, which is Will's color.
He gets taken (in the woods) by the vine monster, which grabs him by the face in a way that looks similar to what happened when the Mind Flayer possessed Will on the field.
Charlie ends up being inside the Snow Shark. He's got a vine hooked up to his mouth, so it can use him as a host.
When El rips Charlie out of the Snow Shark, we can see from his eyes that even though he's out of the Snow Shark, he's still possessed. He's still connected to the hivemind just like Will was after he came back from the UD in S1 and got his true sight and again after they got the Mind Flayer particles out of him in S2 and he started getting his "goosies".
The next time we see Charlie, he's wearing a red (Vecna) hoodie. And he keeps wearing it for the rest of the show.
He tells Dustin that he saw a red light at the top of a tower, which looks a lot like the the WSQK tower, which is where the Mind Flayer particles went when Will connected to Henry and got possessed again.
The red shading on Charlie's image of the tower also reminds me of Will's demovision, which aligns with Charlie seeing the tower from the queen's POV.
When they run into Charlie later at the arcade, he's got huge purple bags under eyes, almost like he hasn't been sleeping well.
In detention, Mike, Will, and Nikki get chased through the hallways by the monster. They're about to escape when Will and Nikki remember they had to go back to save Charlie. Interestingly, Mike didn't want to. He just wanted them to save themselves.
If real Will is the builder of this Camazotz type of world that they're in, Mike doesn't really want it to end. He doesn't want to save Will because then they could get out, and he's comfortable here.
Sure there are still monsters, but he's got his safe, seemingly happy relationship with El. T85 is set before S3, which is when he started really overcompensating for his feelings. It's when the lip glances started and when he started making a really strong effort to "grow up."
T85 is also set before he found out that Will's gay, so he didn't have to think about the possibility of them actually being together and be sad that they couldn't be because (he thought) Will was over him.
In this world he (and probably Will as the builder) has created, Mike can go on thinking that he's straight and not in love with Will.
But even in this world that's he's made for himself, Will and Nikki (his queer self-insert) know that they need to save Charlie (real Will), and Mike reluctantly agrees.
The plant monster attacks Charlie, again by grabbing his face, which also looks very similar to the way Vecna places his claw over people's faces. (We don't really get an angle like that when he does it to Will in Escape from Camazotz, but it's the same motion Vecna uses on him.)
They manage to get it to release Charlie, but after this second time he's been attacked, he goes into a trance.
Will says that creature got him once before and wants him back (I'm losing my mind about Will's hospital gown being covered in triangles).
The thing that actually kills the monster is the potato taser that Will throws at it (mixing with the goo Nikki/Mike's queerness poured on it). The electricity sets it on fire.
Remember that this is Mike's vision of Will. He sees Will as the one with the electricity.
Then we get this interaction:
Nikki (Mike's queer self-insert) asks Will if she can still join the party, and Mike leaves that decision up to Will.
Mike's queerness is asking Will whether he'd accept it, and Mike is letting Will say what he wants instead of assuming that his queerness would be unwelcome, which is what he's always done before.
Will says Nikki can join, and that's the moment Charlie stops being possessed.
All Mike needs to do to save Will is stop assuming that Will won't want him and let himself be vulnerable enough to actually ask.
Once Charlie's ok, Mike pulls the fire alarm so that someone will find him.
They don't have sprinklers that go off in the show, but that's what I associate fire alarms with.
Fire and water are often used to represent hate and love, respectively, in art, and I'm convinced that water (love) will play a big roll in the actual ending to the show.
Setting off the fire alarm here subtextually indicates that Mike wants to stop hating himself and allow his love for Will to come through.
Part Two of The Hollywood Reporter’s exclusive interview with showrunner Eric on T85.
Part 1
Did you remember to tell the characters that? Because there’s sure a lot of references to s3-s5 in the t85.
Bridge mention. Who moved.
How the hell was Karen integral to the story in any way.
Hey here’s some evidence for anyone that thinks the entire cast and crew were all tired during s5 and that’s why it was so shitty.
He loves this story. It does feel a little bit metagate to me. Because is he asking “me” as in Dustin or “me” as in Gaten?
I personally didn’t like the theme. I thought the original stuff was cool. But it felt disjointed in how they mixed it with the original.
But this plane metaphor is…interesting. First of all, this obsession with “landing the plane”. Something the duffers didn’t do. And of course there’s been many theories as to what this could relate to.
But even on a basic level. The intro starts off original. The first five seasons. Then it transitions to t85, the animated series. And then…they land the plane by bringing the original ST back. Hm.
i both hate and love being a mileven fan right now,
because on one hand, we’re getting the cutest content, tales of 85, MAX MAYFIELD SHIPS MILEVEN HARD btw (for all those who think she would ship byler) and yes i do NOT stand by what i said earlier t85 is adorable and canon for me:)
on the other hand, mileven is still down in popularity both in number of followers and in public opinion too! i literally saw a reddit post saying they “don’t ship byler but hate mileven” i- why would you make it your primary aim to hate mileven😭
