#theme: fate

[bthump]

Its been a while since ive read berserk. Correct me if im wrong but iirc Guts and Griffith meeting each other is part of the god's plan for the eclipse to succeed. Its really tragic if you think about it. Did Guts ever know Griffith love/care for him? And vice versa?

Essentially you're right, though I'd say it's strongly implied that everything that happens in Berserk's world is fated/part of God's plan. It's not that fate interferes only in important people's lives, it affects everyone at all times. I just want to make that distinction because I think some people see fate as like a force occasionally influencing characters to do things they wouldn't necessarily do otherwise, whereas I think it's more fundamental than that.

And I think Guts realized that Griffith loved him the entire time in chapter 71 and 72. The chapters between Guts returning and the Eclipse have a strong thread of Guts slowly realizing and accepting that Griffith ended up in a torture chamber because he fell to pieces when Guts left, and I think he finally fully accepts that leaving was a giant mistake around when he's chasing after Griffith towards the lake.

It's ironic in a way fitting the tragedy, because Guts learns his lesson only when it's too late to change anything.

In chapter 130 he also references knowing that Griffith loved him, when he mentions that he had what he wanted in the palm of his hand and threw it away when he left the Hawks.

I think after Hill of Swords it's possible that Guts has once again like, repressed that knowledge lol, and convinced himself he was wrong and Griffith only ever cared about his dream. But given his recent memory of a smiling Griffith in the latest chapter, and Guts' memory of their first duel while having a breakdown on the ship, maybe that's not the case and Guts still knows that human Griffith cared about him. Hopefully we find out more about how Guts feels soon.

As for Griffith, I don't thiiink he ever knew.

Based on what Casca says when she tells Guts to leave again in chapter 71, referencing Promrose Hall and saying that if Guts wants to be Griffith's friend and equal he has to go, it's possible he made the connection that Guts only left because he wanted to be closer to him, and it was never a rejection at all.

But given that we only see him registering the "you have to go" part, and the fact that it sends him into a hallucinatory breakdown, it's probably safe to assume that Casca's reference didn't really register with him as significant.

It's also possible that he made the connection and his subsequent breakdown can be understood in the context of Griffith like, realizing that his dedication to his dream caused the dude he loves to leave and is about to drive him away again. So maybe he did know that Guts loved him or at least never hated him and wanted to be his friend, but it just didn't change anything because he was still going to leave.

That take does feel a bit richer imo, and adds a little something to Griffith choosing his dream in the Eclipse, more of that sunk cost fallacy vibe. Like yeah the dream is why his life is ruined and Guts was about to leave again (he thought) but it's also the only thing he has left so might as well keep going.

I should mention that this is all extrapolation. The way the "You have to go" scene is written it feels like Miura didn't really place much significance on Griffith overhearing Casca mention Promrose Hall/Guts' motivations for leaving, so I don't know if it was even meant to be a factor in the Eclipse sacrifice. But those are the two ways I can think of to interpret it.

Thanks for the ask!

[hp-fanfic-archive]

Lady Fate by jjameslily Pairing: James/Lily Rating: G Word Count: 1k “I beg you—go out with James, marry him, and have his beautiful, practically-blind, curly-haired children.”

[fandomenthusiastt]

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

Here is my fic that I wrote for the sterekvalentineweek2021! Thank you to @hyperfixations-r-us for being my amazing beta/editor! Love ya, Leaf!

[goldenlit]

We call it fate when there is no logical path from then to now. When the man misses a train, then shares a taxi with his future wife or when the cautious woman daydreams through a stop sign at a busy intersection and is hit by a speeding truck. When the man who loves to fly dies in a plane crash. We shake our heads. It's fate, we say.

What Remains (Carole Radziwill) 

[bthump]

This is super obvious but I knew the way the manga showed it is amazing.

Griffith degraded himself after becoming femto, but it wasn’t only his humanity and morality which took a dive.

His dream and the way he went on to achieve it and what it stood for completely changed.

People followed Griffith because he represented hope and a possibility for change for the common man, he came from nothing and inspired and gave hope to people to change their circumstances, he inspired his own soldier to dream and want something for themselves.

As the white falcon he shook the status quo, the people who decided to follow him were the hopeful man, the dreamers.

But now as femto/the falcon of light he submitted to the idea of “fate”, to the idea he wasn’t just a common man, he was always destined to be great and to become a king. The people who came to his kingdom did so out of desperation rather than their own volition. A complete betrayal of everything he stood for before.

I really hate Griffith, yet here I am writing essay analysis about his character and development

Props to Miura for writing such an amazing character, who is utterly despicable and still manages to be complex and somewhat sympathetic to some people.

Assuming the 2nd message is also you.

Personally I don't know if I see the role of fate as dichotemy between human Griffith and NeoGriffith exactly... human Griffith also believed in fate, after all, as he says in chapter 8 ("We are all at the mercy of a great tide... fate, or whatever you wish to call it.") He wants to discover if it's his destiny to be one of the "true elite" by reaching for it as hard as he can, or at least, that's the justification for his dream that he tells himself.

The difference is that NeoGriffith now knows for a fact that he was right about being fated to be important lol. BUT that said, it is still a difference because it validates the lofty justification and makes it a whole lot easier for him to ignore the driving subconscious emotional reasons he has for pursuing his dream.

And yeah I think it's awesome that Berserk inspires you to think deeply and write meta about the story, even when you don't like the characters you're talking about. It's such a good story that gives you so much to think about and chew on, and Griffith is so interesting and complex whether you sympathize or not imo.

[bthump]

Hi bthump, just saw your “is Griffith a victim of fate” answer and it got me wondering.

Considering the fact that Griffith wanted to know his place in the world and if he is one of the keys that set the world in motion, wouldnt he hate the fact that everything got “decided” so to speak, before he was even born? That wouldnt make him that different from your regular king, who was born into the right family. Would Griffith see it that way? And could it play into the idea that he would want to undo the idea of evil?

Yk, I don't think Griffith would see it that way. In that keys speech in chapter 8, he describes fate as something everyone is "at the mercy of," even kings. He sees it as something higher and greater than social status.

And I think he actively wants everything to be pre-ordained. He loves the idea of fate - and I think he believes that it's because he wants to know if he's destined for greatness, but deep down it's because he wants to be absolved of responsibility, and therefore his guilt for leading people to their deaths.

If everything is beholden to fate, even him, then being on a path with a mountain of bodies behind him is just where he's meant to be. It's the reason The Idea of Evil exists in the first place - so people have something to blame for all the evil and bad things in the world. Griffith is a perfect representative of humanity that way.

The first part of my four part Griffith essay is all about this by the way, if you're interested in seeing a better laid out explanation with more references to the text. It's also the shortest part and relatively self-contained.

Thanks for the ask!

[bthump]

Do you think griffith is a victim of fate? And does berserk intend for the concept of free-will to be read as an illusion?

First question: actually no, not really.

Like on a very literal level yes, he technically is, but in Berserk literally everyone in the world is a victim of fate. So it's essentially meaningless to say he's a victim of fate whose life was railroaded and who didn't have any choice. It's true, but like, it's true of Guts, Casca, Judeau, random refugee #523 in the Conviction arc, some villager getting eaten by a dragon, etc. No one has defied fate so far in the story, not even the characters who theoretically have the power to do so, and fate dictates everyone's lives, not just the super special destined gods and their friends.

The Idea of Evil exists to provide a reason why bad things happen, because humanity wants someone to blame and willed it into existence. So presumably it's the reason for everything, from famine and war to some peasant accidentally breaking his leg. Everyone's lives are beholden to fate.

But that's boring. No one gets invested in automations walking around like wind-up toys, without a will of their own. No one would care about those characters. So Miura writes fate in a very hands-off way. Fate doesn't possess people and make them make certain choices despite their personalities, fate just makes sure they have experiences that shape them into the sort of people who would make certain choices.

Griffith is the type of person who would say yes to the Godhand's offer in the circumstances they offered it to him. That's why the sacrifice scene is so good - it's the perfect cumulation to everything we've seen of his character. It feels completely organic. We've learned everything we need to know about Griffith to understand why he chooses the sacrifice. If he felt like a victim being forced to sacrifice everyone with a metaphorical gun to his head, it wouldn't be an effective scene imo. Instead it feels like his free choice, and it works perfectly that way.

So I guess I've also answered question two along with this. I do think free will is essentially an illusion in Berserk.

I think it would make sense if the story climaxed in a paradigm shift for humanity which changes their priorities and ways of thinking and destroys the Idea of Evil and the concept of fate, so maybe something like that will happen. But until then, yeah, no one really has free will.

Even the characters who Skull Knight describes as being like a fish who can leap out of the water, capable of defying fate - Guts for instance, because of the brand - haven't done so at all yet. They're clearly still very influenced by fate day to day, as evidenced by Guts carrying a behelit for example, or Guts and Casca facliitating Griffith's resurrection during the Conviction arc.

Thanks for the ask!

[bthump]

Hi! I’m sure you’ve written plenty of meta on fate in Berserk, so feel free to just point me in that direction if you feel like you’ve answered these questions before, but I was wondering.

In a universe where ostensibly everyone’s choices are predetermined by an external force (however that happens - by putting characters in specific circumstances, by “shaping” who they become through “encounters”), how do you understand Guts’ role specifically? There’s a lot of framing him as someone who exists “outside of fate” (born of death, survived the eclipse when he shouldn’t have). Do you interpret that as him actually having the power to defy/disrupt fate’s plan/order?

And if the answer to that question is yes, then do you think one could argue he specifically could’ve had the power (however unfulfilled) to stop the eclipse altogether?

In chapter 142 Skull Knight says that the brand is what puts Guts into the interstice and therefore a step outside of causality, a fish that can breach the current and all that. So I do think he has the potential to defy fate now, but I don't think he had the power to avoid the Eclipse. It doesn't sound like something he was born with, but a result of escaping the Eclipse once before and gaining a little bit of access to the astral plane.

Ironically I think that means he was fated to escape the Eclipse and obtain the potential to defy fate lol, however that works. Since two sacrifices needed to survive to bring NeoGriffith into the world at the shadow Eclipse in the Conviction Arc, and also I think Slan musing that it could've been fated to happen followed by a silent shot of Void seeming like he knows something implies that it is indeed part of the grand plan, in a way that I think is foreshadowing for Griffith's resurrection, and maybe more later on.

In chapter 237 Skull Knight also says that this is why witches are a threat to Griffith and he had a bunch of them killed, which makes me wonder how many things out there also have the power to defy fate lol, if all it takes is being a step outside the physical world. Like, do apostles? Does the Godhand? Does Skull Knight? Elves?

(It also makes NeoGriffith not killing Guts multiple times when he easily could have extra interesting, since theoretically Guts could be a threat the same way witches are.)

Anyway despite Guts having that ability, I don't think we've seen it happen yet. Everything seems to be going according to fate's plans so far, based on the fact that he's carrying a behelit for someone (or was recently, idk who has it now while he's a prisoner) and the fact that he failed to touch Griffith during their first confrontation.

But considering all the foreshadowing, I'm sure we'll see some fate defiance happen at the climax of the story, maybe resulting in Griffith's death. Maybe it takes a really extra intense act of will or something, or it has to happen in the right moment to have enough of an affect on fate to be more than a blip fate can, like, incorporate into its plans or whatever.

Idk, that's my theory at least, but we don't get a whole lot of concrete information on how fate works, so there's room for other ideas too. Like, it's maybe implied that Guts and Casca both surviving the climax of the Conviction arc was somehow defying fate, with the repetition of Skull Knight's "maybe you aren't a shadow on the water but a fish breaching the water's surface" line in chapter 166? Which would also imply that the two of them surviving the Eclipse was defying fate. But if that's the case then it seems NeoGriffith's rebirth is defying fate too since that relies on Guts and Casca surviving long enough for the tortured angry souls to "sacrifice" everyone in the vicinity, which seems unlikely since Skull Knight talks about his rebirth like it's part of a fated thousand year cycle he's fully aware of.

Or maybe Guts and Casca weren't meant to survive but fate works like a gps system and recalculates after a wrong turn lol. Like, maybe Guts has been defying fate constantly by surviving when he's meant to die, and forcing "recalculations" or something, and it takes something really huge to throw fate off its track entirely.

But if I had to make a bet then I'd say that Guts and Casca's survival is a part of fate's plans so far, and no one's defied fate yet, but someone probably will before the story's over.

Thanks for the ask!