Thanks again for answering the prev question on safety 🙇🏻♀️ New question, from your experience, do artists who transition from singing/perf to acting ever go back to doing full albums/concerts? GGDD both have great voices/performance skills and its a bit of a shame that they can’t do a full solo concert due to their schedules. So far its all single releases, would it all just be compiled for fan meets? Or there’s a possibility they may embarked back on a music journey?
So I previously actually wrote a big answer for this, but then my browser crashed so I lost it. xD; This is try #2! Let’s hope my computer cooperates this time!
Disclaimer: This post contains both speculation and facts informed by my 10+ year career in the music industry.
In my experience, Asian artists who also have a career in acting do often return to music - especially if music was their original love.
In an interview I recently watched, XZ previously had stated that if he had to choose between acting and music, he would probably choose music, because that was his original love and where he first began! So we know that with XZ in particular, that he most likely does want to continue his career in music!
Note: The following section is 100% factual and universal across the industry worldwide.
That being said, the single biggest reason why artists often can’t always put on full concerts isn’t actually a busy schedule (though schedules are often a deciding factor, since touring is super time-consuming). The biggest reason why artists can’t always put on solo shows is due to the size of their solo repertoire.
When promoters book concerts, there is always a clause in the contract that stipulates how long the artist must perform for. Usually, this period of time is 90-120 minutes. If an artist does not have enough music in their solo repertoire to fill 90-120 minutes, that usually means they would have to sing covers to fill up the rest of that time.
What I know from my work experience is this: While some artists are actually okay with doing that, many artists are not. Many artists take great pride in their music and want to bring a stage to fans that is their own - not someone else’s. While performing someone else’s music is good and fine and fans will still be happy no matter what, many artists wouldn’t consider that to be “good enough,” especially if it is a solo stage.
I have worked with artists who used to be part of a group and later on ended up having their own solo work. Those artists always wanted to perform their own music in their solo shows - and refused to even rearrange songs from their group’s repertoire. They would rather write brand new music by themselves than perform something that was done with others.
And so, given those facts, often it is difficult for solo artists who don’t have a large repertoire to stage a show. Add in scheduling difficulties and you have yourself a perfect storm of reasons as to why artists can’t always stage a solo show.
The following section is speculation:
While it is possible to simultaneously have a music and acting career, it is usually difficult to have a simultaneous touring and acting career. As a good example to look at, you can consider Jared Leto from Thirty Seconds to Mars. When he is focusing on acting projects, his band is usually not touring. And when his band is touring, he is usually not acting. The reason for this is simply a matter of location - if you’re on tour, you’re constantly moving, and there is simply no way to also be on set for up to 16 hours a day to film.
If XZ and WYB are anything like the artists I mentioned before, then most likely, they would want to take the time to actually record enough music to put out an entire solo album. If that album has 12 tracks on average, with each track having a run time of about 4 minutes on average, then that would be 72 minutes of songs. Add in any additional solo music that isn’t on the album (perhaps, music from soundtracks) and that could maybe bring it up to 90 minutes if you also add in a few 2-3 minute segments of audience interaction.
Back to facts:
Generally, if an artist puts out a full album, most labels would want to then schedule a tour, as tours help to promote the album, and the album helps to promote the tour.
So if you’re a big supporter of XZ and WYB’s music careers, keep your fingers crossed and hope for solo albums sometime in the future - as that would more or less ensure (most of the time) that a tour would follow.
Heya Peek! You wrote in one of your replies that it is difficult for asian artist let alone a Chinese artist to hold a tour overseas. Can you expand a bit on that? Also adding onto to this, I understand that if we were to compare it with kpop, the western reception is quite different towards cpop/c-artist. Though has there been any c-artist who have achieve the feat of a proper world tour overseas?
Disclaimer: This post is informed by my experience in music. All of this is fact, not speculation.
Hi! You always ask such great questions!
Let’s talk a bit about touring!
For many artists around the world, touring is often the #1 income generating activity for an artist (unless they have a ton of really high-valued endorsements). Though it is exhausting, it is also very rewarding, as artists get to interact with their fans in a controlled environment and reap the rewards. It is is also a necessary part of the music ecosystem, as many tours tend to support album releases, which generate more sales.
Many artists in Japan and China actually have very successful careers in their local markets and never have to even leave their home country to tour, because the size of their local markets are really just that huge. Artists from Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea, however, do have to go outside their immediate local market to maximize their earning potential because their local market isn’t big enough. This is why Kpop is actually South Korea’s #1 export and contributor of South Korea’s GDP.
For artists who don’t technically have to leave their country to tour, leaving comes with the risk of losing out on local opportunities and higher earning potential, especially if the overseas tour doesn’t come with the same dollar value as local tours. This is easily the very first hurdle all Asian artists have to overcome: passing up on local opportunities for the chance of developing a career abroad.
The second hurdle that artists have to face is finding someone who will pay for the tour. The misconception that many people have about touring is that record labels or management companies are the ones who organize the tours and pay for them. This is completely incorrect. Instead, concert promoters are the ones who fund, organize, and produce tours.
You see, all venues are owned and operated by a concert promoter. A huge majority of venues in the United States, for example, are owned by Live Nation or AEG. There are a number that are owned independently, but there’s no question that Live Nation and AEG are the biggest power players in the game. So in order to put on a concert, you have to deal with the venue owner, which is always going to be a concert promoter. (Or a Chinese casino.)
The reality is: without a concert promoter such as Live Nation or AEG or an independent promoter (or multiple local promoters) to help pay for a tour, major tours just never happen in today’s live music industry.
The problem with relying on local concert promoters is that most of the time, local promoters are only willing to shell out money and take a risk on artists that have a track record. Often, they’ll turn to resources such as Pollstar Pro, which track ticket sales, box office revenue, etc. for live events per artist. Unfortunately, many Asian artists actually aren’t registered in the Pollstar system, and so this information is usually inconclusive. As a result, talent buyers for local promoters who are unfamiliar with Asian artists would need to rely on a few things:
Their own research on the artist to determine the artist’s market size, especially if this is an international artist who has never performed locally before
Their trust in the agent/individual who pitched the artist. The trust placed in the agent is actually a huge factor, especially if the agent has historically been able to demonstrate a solid track record of strong box offices.
If the Asian artist in question doesn’t have local representation via an agent or someone else who can pitch them to a buyer, then that means the only way they would be able to tour would be if there is an independent Asian promoter or talent buyer who knows who the artist is and is willing to take a risk. (The alternative would be for the Asian promoter to act as an intermediary agent, but that is literally another post in and of itself and is more complicated so I’m going to not focus on that for now.)
So, let’s assume there is an independent Asian promoter who wants to take a risk on an artist who has never toured internationally before. Let’s further assume the Asian promoter already has all the money available to pay for this tour. They know who the artist is, sees that the artist is trending locally in their market, and believes that the artist can stage a successful tour.
First, the promoter has to contact the artist’s management company and ensure that the artist has availability for the time period in which they want to tour. They also have to convince the management company to even be willing to consider the offer. At that point, they have to request the artist’s technical and hospitality rider from the management company so they can actually price it out.
Then, the promoter has to route the tour by securing venue availabilities. This is actually a lot harder if the promoter is funding the tour 100% independently because venues are unwilling to place “holds” on any dates for too long if the show is a rental and not one that involves their own talent buyer. So, the promoter has to act very quickly to secure a number of dates.
Once the tour is routed, the promoter then has to send a lucrative enough offer to the company that will make the company feel it’s worth the local opportunity cost - and it cannot be a small amount or one or two dates, unless those two dates come with such a huge price tag that the management company simply can’t turn it down. The offer also has to have an entire list of cities, venues, venue sizes, and dates. This is usually delivered in the form of a deal memo to the management company.
Deal memos for most Asian artists also always include the following:
Artist guarantee per show
Hospitality clause that includes 5 star hotels, international travel for X amount of individuals, including business/first class flights for artist (and potentially the artist’s security and manager), and luxury SUVs or comparable vehicles for internal transportation
Per diem for X amount of people, including artist
Cost of visas
Attached tech and hospitality rider provided by artist management
Requirements for artist (i.e. XX minutes of performance, any meet and greets, any PR etc.)
Now, at this point, if the management company agrees to the terms of the deal memo, they then turn this into a contract which is signed. Once the contract is signed, the promoter is responsible for paying the artist at least 50% of their guarantee as a deposit. They then need to begin working on securing the artist’s visa. This is actually the hard part, especially if the artist previously has never performed in the country.
So, if we are talking about the United States as an example, as it is the biggest market in the West for Asian artists, the artist has to obtain either an O-visa or an H1-B visa. This usually requires a visa attorney who specializes in international artists who will actually get a letter from a Senator to recommend the artist for a visa. The artist then has to go to their embassy for an interview and their embassy side has to also approve it - especially if it’s a Chinese artist, so that sometimes requires lawyers on the artist’s side. If the visa doesn’t go through and is denied, and if appeals don’t manage to go through in time, then the tour is dead on its feet. So, a visa is really important!
While this is happening, the promoter has to also work on obtaining a CWA (central withholding agreement) to avoid having to withhold 30% of income that would otherwise go straight to the IRS. If they do not succeed in obtaining a CWA that they can present to the venue, the venue will be required to withhold 30% of all box office proceeds at settlement. (Yeah, I know that’s kind of insane, but it’s technically the law.) This 30% would ultimately impact the promoter’s bottom line, and potentially the artist’s, depending on the kind of contract that is negotiated. (If the artist is made responsible for tax withholding, then the artist’s income will be hit negatively if the promoter is unable to or fails to obtain a CWA.)
I can go into far more detail about all the promoter’s responsibilities from this point on, but you asked why it’s difficult for an artist to hold a tour overseas - and as you can see, even before we get into the actual technical production part planning for the tour, it’s already extremely complicated. Many Asian management companies simply do not want to deal with that kind of complication when they already know how things work from home and it’s a relatively “easy” paycheck.
Touring overseas usually comes with a big cultural shock for the artist. Many Asian artists don’t enjoy the same level of fame abroad as they do at home, which means, they often don’t get the same level of care that they do at home. What their team can afford for them locally is not necessarily what the local promoter can afford abroad. Some artists who normally are used to a 5-star experience everywhere may sometimes have to settle for less and be comfortable with the idea of scaling down production, which not all artists are willing to do. (Scaling down on production is usually the #1 most contentious area of negotiation between promoters and management companies. The second thing that they tend to fight on is usually the hospitality rider, but that’s not often as bad as negotiating tech riders.)
Sometimes, the tech rider issue is such a huge problem that the artist will blow their tech budget entirely out of the water - especially artists and management teams who have massive egos and have a lot of trouble understanding they really are not as big of a deal as they are overseas.
I can think of a particular Asian artist who performed internationally in the United States and insisted on actually shipping their entire stage that they toured with in their country to the U.S. Instead of renting locally, which would have saved a huge amount of money, they shipped the entire stage and all of the equipment. They also decided to fly out over 100 people, 30+ of whom flew first or business class with an average price of about $3000/per ticket.
The promoter did such a bad job actually marketing the show that they were literally giving away tickets and even paying people to fill seats because of just how bad it looked to have an empty venue.
It was a complete disaster.
In any case, there are a lot more reasons why touring abroad is difficult for Asian artists, but as you can see, getting a tour off the ground itself is already insanely difficult - and we haven’t even gotten to the actual performance itself.
As for your other question - I’ll have to ask that you actually submit that in a separate ask because this particular blog post has already gotten so long, and I think that is another conversation entirely!
I hope I’ve helped to shed some light on some of the many difficulties that come with trying to stage an international tour for an Asian artist!
Heya Peek, got a question about schedules for you. Not sure if there’s an industry standard for this or if most companies just milk their talents dry. What’s a usual day to day schedule for artists? I understand depending on campaigns/festive seasons there will be crazy weeks packed back to back with plans bleeding into each hour, but are the talents given ample rest? Is there a working limit or do most of them get pushed to do OT? Are they even able to claim days off? I guess all these questions are stemming from my worry for WYB after the recent saesang mobbing 🔥😡 Also with the upcoming event he is in, is it a common practice for that many days of dry-run pre-film practices? (Or its due to the pandemic that they have to stretch it out?)
Disclaimer: The following is informed by my experience working in the music industry.
Honestly, there isn't really an "industry standard" for artists, because every artist has different schedules, and it can really vary depending on the artist's commitments, whether or not they are touring, if they have film projects, etc.
An artist on tour might have a schedule that involves them waking up and then exercising, arriving at the venue to sound check by 3PM, hair and makeup/styling by 6PM, dinner at 7PM, press between 7PM and 8PM, then show time between 9PM-11PM. If they have a particularly complicated stage, they might want a longer rehearsal, but largely, rehearsal time depends on when the crew can load into the venue. If it's a big enough venue, usually load in happens the day before the show, so the artist can rehearse early in the morning, and then get into hair/makeup, followed by press.
An artist who is not on tour who is actively working on music might show up at a studio at 9AM and work till 9PM if it's a long session - which isn't unheard of. Generally speaking, management companies like to organize an artist's schedule by specific activities if they can help it - i.e. if the artist is recording, then they try to limit the day to just recording if the schedule allows. (Sometimes the schedule doesn't allow, and the artist has to cram in recording plus press at the same time.) It isn't unheard of for artists to have back-to-back interviews if it's a press day. If there is a photo shoot, usually a big chunk of the day is blocked off for the shoot.
Artists do get days off sometimes if they just don't have any large commitments and/or aren't recording. But, it really does depend on the artist and their management team.
As for the event you were asking about, this question was submitted 20 days ago (sorry it took me so long to get back to you, I've been insanely busy) so I'm not actually sure which event you are referring to or what was happening during that time so you'll have to be specific if you still have a question about it! I haven't been able to pay as close attention in the past month due to my job being kind of overwhelming these days.
Thank you so much for sharing your insights! I have a question, its regarding safety for ggdd whenever they are travelling between hotels/venues/airports. Aside from security staff protecting them, given how China is strict on public conduct, how is it that fans can ignore/bypass security measures? Especially airports, you get checked before entering but some fans just nope thru. They also wait at hotels prior, is the location leaked each time? Also at event rehearsals. Do they not get caught?
One of the scariest things I discovered when I started to go on tour with idols is just how unethical people can be. The reason why fans often can figure out schedules is because information such as airline bookings and hotels get leaked by airline or hospitality staff, especially if artists are flying on commercial airlines.
While one might think “Why can’t you just use a fake name?” for hotels, the fact of the matter remains that usually when booking large groups at hotels, you have to contact the entertainment manager for the hotel to negotiate a group deal. If there is additional security measures that you have to put into place to coordinate with the hotel’s security, that also has to be taken into account. Because of this, when routing a tour and booking hotels, you can’t lie to the entertainment manager about who you’re booking - especially because you have to send ahead a hospitality rider. And while the entertainment manager might not be the one who is responsible for the leak, when the hotel briefs their staff on what to expect, the game plan, etc. inevitably, lower level staff find out the details of who will be arriving. (For the record: we do put fake names into the system for the artists, but we don’t lie to the hotel when booking said rooms.)
Fans catch wind of these details sometimes weeks in advance because hotels and airlines are booked far in advance. As a result, at airports, fans can actually book flights to try and get into the terminal and bypass security. (Normally, the majority of fans actually wait outside the gates for the artists.) Fans also can catch wind by following various paparazzi that follow the artist and post about their movements - which is how fans find out about hotels or the fact that an artist is taking a flight. (And then they can arrive at the arrival airport around the time the flight lands to “greet” the artist.)
I have experienced some pretty weird shit like fans finding out artist movements and booking the same flight, or stalking the artist to the gate if the artist wanted to wait in public at the gate with their staff. (For this reason, we usually bring the artist into the first class lounges to wait.)
The only way to 100% deter fans is to fly on private planes that will allow cars to meet the plane on the tarmac while deboarding.
I was looking at the mic pic cpn ppl shared during NYE and thought to ask you 😬 Aside from aesthetics/branding, do artist usually get fancy custom mic for image purposes? Or the quality of mic is different from say the ones brought in by the sound/production team? And on shared stages like NYE events, how do they even sync everyones mic/in-ears? That’s like so many changes (is that why xz perf also got affected?). Also do artist buy their own mic? Or its like given by the company just to maintain branding (i.e BTS for example).
Disclaimer: The following post is informed by my personal experience working in the music industry. Industry practices may vary by region.
Oftentimes, artists get custom mics and mic stands specifically to fit the creative direction they want for their stage. It’s pretty common for major artists in particular to have their own custom mics and mic stands. This is usually an aesthetic decision.
The mic that is most often listed on technical riders is the Shure SM57. This mic is often used as the base of custom mic encasements and tends to be an industry standard when it comes to wireless mics.
On shared stages, such as NYE events, all in-ears and mics are synched with the audio consoles. Each in-ear monitor is actually its own audio system, which is directly connected, with wires, to the digital audio console. The corresponding system transmitter is then placed on side stage or as close to the artist as possible. I am not an audio engineer so I can’t actually tell you the specifics of how it’s all done, but generally, that’s how I’ve seen it done.
On the console itself, when the engineers are setting it up, they usually will take a piece of masking tape and stick it onto the board with the name of the artist so that they can keep it organized. (Incidentally, lighting directors do this as well with their gear too, to keep track of all the lights and special effects.)
As for who is responsible for paying for equipment - it really depends. If the artist is going on tour and a promoter such as Live Nation is footing the bill, then Live Nation is responsible for the cost of the microphone. If the artist is doing an event without a promoter, then the cost usually will come out of the company’s pocket first.
The following is speculation based on my experience in the industry:
As for XZ, there could have been any number of reasons why things went wrong with his performance, but I think there is a very, very, very, very high chance that the monitor engineer simply didn’t have the master volume turned on for his in-ears, so he couldn’t hear himself or the music. (Which is why he had to pull out his in-ear to actually hear himself after.)
Heya Peek, got a music ent question for you. Not sure if you’ve seen this news https://www.koreaboo.com/news/bts-performances-deleted-youtube-big-hit-entertainment/ but my question is more on the business side of why a company doesn’t purchase rights over performances that they may have no control over (cause all the ones listed are owned under private western companies). I understand that some fans are mad, but correct me if i’m wrong, in situations like this, there’s actually a more complex reasoning and costly reason behind why BH doesn’t buy over the rights yea? I mean if we were to swap it around and use say a c-ent company, the entire process ought to be even more complex i reckon.
Disclaimer: The following answer is informed by my experience working in the music industry.
The truth is, I have no idea why fans keep saying that Big Hit did not “buy” the performance rights for those videos to be hosted on The Late Late Show and The Tonight Show’s respective official YouTube channels. That is actually not the way that works. (Artists I have personally worked with have actually featured on those shows.)
When it comes to performance rights, the party that pays for them is not the record label, but instead the party who hosts the performance. So, if the performance occurred on The Late Late Show, then the show would be the party responsible for paying the PRO for their performance fees.
I looked up the songs in question to see if they were registered with ASCAP/BMI/KOMCA, and they absolutely are. I don’t see any issue with the PRO side - at least nothing that appears to be glaringly obvious, anyway.
Here are all of their registrations:
Black Swan
Dynamite
DNA
Boy With Luv
IDOL | IDOL FEAT. NICKI MINAJ
FAKE LOVE
I’M FINE
So what that means is that there may be some other unknown PRO issue that may involve one or more rights owners. It could be an issue of an uncleared sample, or a sample that was only cleared for usage within a specific territory for a specific period of time or for a specific event. (Which would mean that whatever it is would need to be renegotiated.)
It could also be an issue that the actual playback track that was used for those performances had a different arrangement with additional rights owners, but that particular arrangement was not properly registered with all the respective PROs, which would then explain why all of those videos were taken down.
Really enjoyed your prev reply on how the whole process works for c-artists touring overseas 🙏🏼. Any chance (when you have time) that you can pick back up on whether you know of any c-artist who have achieved oversea tours/world tours? So far i think i only know of Jay Chou but he mainly toured US and various asian countries. Aside from that would love to learn more about other artists if there are any 🙇🏻♀️
Disclaimer: The following answer is informed by my experience working in the music industry.
There are actually quite a number of c-artists who have had successful overseas/world tours. They include:
Jay Chou
G.E.M.
Jacky Cheung
A-Mei
Eason Chan
Jane Zhang
Cai Xukun (aka KUN)
Show Luo
Emil Wakin Chau
(The above isn’t a comprehensive list - there’s actually more artists. I just don’t have the time to collect all of the names for you, haha.)
As I’m sure you’ve noticed, with the exception of Jane Zhang and KUN, everyone else on this list is actually from Taiwan or Hong Kong. Crossover from mainland China is far more rare.
It is absolutely impressive that CQL was able to hold a sold-out fan meeting at a major arena in Thailand when EXO was also in the country. Chances are, a good number of fans flew into Thailand just to be able to attend - this is pretty normal for super fans who are wiling to more or less “tour” with their favorite artist in the region!
Man, just want to throw in my support cause one of your Anon is getting real aggro. I reckon most of us here really appreciate your insights that are backed up with decent facts + very neutral. To the Anon/Anons, PB is not obligated in any sense to respond to any of us nor you. What is shared here is done out of PB's own enjoyment, free time and experience. Just because you disagree on something, doesn't mean you have to push THE point. Nothing here is bible. Learn to read the room and cool off.
That aggro Anon is now blocked, so I don’t think they’ll be able to see this post, haha.
That being said, thanks for the note of support. I appreciate it. <3
