“You don’t understand the basics of Manga” — Torishima and Toyotaro (Japan Expo 2025) part 1
Here's a proper transcription of p.1 of the Editor-Mangaka meeting between Kazuhiko Torishima and Toyotaro where we discovered Toyotaro's One Shot manga, with Naz Chris hosting 🥰
Thanks to Japan Expo for this informative conference!
ご苦労様でした！🙇♀️
This is part 1 of the stage conference with Toyotaro and Torishima on Sunday, July 6th 2025 in Paris, France, during Japan Expo 2025.
This is part 1 of the stage conference with Toyotaro and Torishima on Sunday, July 6th 2025 in Paris, France, during Japan Expo 2025.
I would like to thank deeply Japan Expo for their wonderful conferences. I attended this conference as a regular guest, and got to sit quite close to the scene.
I want to transcribe and analyze as accurately as possible as a way to preserve these details for everyone to enjoy, and this is why it took me so long to get to it.
This conference of 45 minutes is divided in two parts, and this article will cover the first part: the part where Torishima Kazuhiko explains why and where Toyotaro failed to understand the basis of Manga.
As always, at the very bottom you’ll find my FR transcript (as closely as my notes allowed me to take).
Notes:
I will use plain last names and not add the honorifics, but know that Torishima uses -san when talking to/about Toriyama and Toyotaro (and not -sensei).
My notes / analysis / addendum will be written as Von’s note: yaddiyadda. Please consider these as additional context.
The YUZU stage where this happened was full. Torishima showed up with a labcoat, and as such, fully embraced his persona as Dr Mashirito.
Chris Naz, the producer of the KosoKoso radio show serves as a representative of Torishima. She is the host of most talks and conferences, but here, she only really introduced the people and let Toyotaro and Torishima talk because of the following point.
This conference is presented as a “lt’s show everyone what a professional meeting between a mangaka and an editor looks like”, which Torishima says is a very boring ordeal (and “why would so many people be interested in this”). The first part of the conference is more of an explainer of manga basis, and general understanding of action.
During my initial twitter live thread of this conference, at the end, I wrote this was basically an “ad” for Torishima’s book that is set to come out in French in March 2026, but it isn’t a bad thing. This truly shows the talent, expertise and mastery of Torishima, and it also showcases Toyotaro’s own growth.
Toyotaro was comfortable and at ease all throughout, he was not fearful, he was not making himself small, and he was very much a willing and playful participant.
Please note that the translator often used third person (Mr Toyotaro is right here..) instead of second person (Mr Toyotaro, you’re right here), because of how Japanese just avoids the use of second person most of the time and prefers using the name of the people you’re talking to. Even if they used third person, please know that for 95% of the dialogue, they are actually talking to each other. Torishima isn’t commenting to the audience about Toyotaro, he is talking to him, not ignoring him or talking about him when he’s right there.
I choose to keep the transcription as authentic to what the translator said, but with my limited understanding of JPN grammar, for the English text, I’m going to be smoothing a few things (such as the use of “novel” for the one shot manga in WJ).
All good?
So after welcoming Torishima and Toyotaro on stage, Chris Naz comments on how this is the last conference around DB in Japan Expo for this year. Torishima says this might not be a normal Editor-Mangaka meeting, but a “confrontation”, but he also expresses surprise to see so many people coming to what really can be described as a “boring meeting”.
Torishima, who is wearing a labcoat quite reminiscent of Mashirito (the villain from Dr Slump which was based on Torishima) also warns Toyotaro:
Torishima, to Toyotaro: I will be telling you very harsh things today, so take a big breath.
Toyotaro actually does that, a little theatrical, closing and opening his arms and taking deep breaths.
Von’s note: in this section above, the translator speaking as Torishima says “tu” (informal you singular in French) when talking to Toyotaro. Everything returns to the formal “vous” after this one instance.
Chris Naz notes that before Dragon Ball Super, Toyotaro started with DBH Victory Mission, and asks him about his experience when it comes to the global reception he’s received. Toyotaro expresses gratitude to his readers and fans accross the world.
Chris then mentions how Toyotaro loved Dragon Ball so much he used to draw it as a student and imitating Toriyama’s lines, and now he is about to meet the person who discovered and published Toriyama, and asks whether he’s nervous.
Von’s note: the translator used the French word “étudiant” which is usually used for post-secondary studies (after high school), and not “élève” which is used for primary and secondary students. I am unsure whether it should be “post-secondary student”, or if it was meant to be the generic term “student” that may ignore age or type of sturdy. Considering Toyotaro’s age and how old DBAF is, the former is not out of the question, but I have no doubt Toyotaro already drew as a kid and teenager. This note is useless in English, but because my notes and the conference was in French, I want to be thorough.
Toyotaro answers that he is extremely tense and nervous, but he’s also extremely honored and happy to meet him and that the legendary editor will have a look at his manga is truly something. It’s an opportunity that could only happen on stage, but it’s truly with great joy he’s here.
Chris Naz: So, Mr. Torishima, there’s a reason why you specifically wanted to have a discussion with Mr. Toyotaro. What was it?
KT: I saw at a glance that there was a huge problem on the page on the right. And I wanted to tell him directly. So, in fact, when I looked at those two pages, I felt that the fundamentals of the manga weren’t being respected, and that’s why I thought about talking to you.
KT: So, action scenes need to be dynamic, and there should always be a long shot, a medium shot, a cutaway — and a shot looking up. If you look at these two pages, it’s missing an angle. And here I’m showing you some pages by Mr. Toriyama so you can compare how he mastered these basics.
(Von’s note: again I want to point out that Torishima says Toriyama-san and not Toriyama-sensei, even if he’s talking about Toriyama as a mangaka / professional)
The pages shown are from the fight between Piccolo and Goku.
Von’s note: these pages are also present in his book, “Dr. Mashirito’s Ultimate Manga Techniques”
KT: On the right-hand page, the top panel shows Piccolo and Goku facing each other. This panel clearly shows the distance between the characters. And thanks to this panel, which establishes the distances at the beginning, when we later see Goku punching Piccolo, this gives us a good idea of how fast Goku moved to cover that distance. And then, when we see how far Piccolo moved back, this allows the reader to see how strong that punch was.
Von’s note: There’s a lot of pointing at the screen which I cannot show you as we were not allowed to take pictures or videos. However if you’re a good DB fan you know what he means just from the description.
KT: And the problem is that in these two pages by Mr. Toyotaro, this first angle, the one which establishes the distance between the characters, is missing. So, as a result, when we met, I asked you what you thought was missing from those two pages. And you got it right.
Toyotaro: As you said, indeed, if there isn’t that starting panel that defines the distance between the characters, we can’t get a clear idea of the scene. That’s exactly it.
KT: I want to point out that it happens very often that authors forget to make this kind of layout that establishes things properly. It’s normal, authors are always eager to get to the impact scene. The problem for me is the henshu, — the tanto in charge of Mr. Toyotaro, didn’t see that and couldn’t correct it. And that’s what bothered me most. Because the author’s editor is the first reader. If he doesn’t see the flaws, if he lets them slide, the flaws will be published as is.
KT: Which also means that the editor here doesn’t understand the basics of manga.
Von’s note: I wrote in my tweet thread that this statement felt pretty harsh towards the V Jump staff, which is a magazine that Torishima was the editor in chief and founder of. It shows also how much of an expert Torishima is about what works and why it works. However, it’s a little strange for a former employee to talk like this about their company and colleagues / subordinates. That being said, Torishima is quite able to be blunt, which he also was as a regular employee and editor with Shueisha. This is very much in character for him, at least according to previous interviews and other stories told about him. I do not think there is anything in particular to infer from this, but I’d like to point it out for those who are a little familiar with JPN professional roles.
KT: There’s another scene.
Here they showed the classical Vegeta v Goku iconic poses from the Saiyan Saga.
Von’s note: Again, there’s a lot of pointing at the screen which I cannot show you as we were not allowed to take pictures or videos. However if you’re a good DB fan you know what he means just from the description.
KT: There’s a long shot in panels 1, 2, and 3 that allows us to see and establish the distance between Goku and Vegeta. The fact that the characters remain still, without moving, gathering their energy, the truth is that this waiting period creates a tension that will add dynamism when the characters finally move.
KT: Which means that even though Mr. Toyotaro loves the action in Dragon Ball, he still lacks the analytical skills to understand what made the impact of this scene work.
KT: I’ll stop there with this analysis, but the thing is, if Mr. Toyotaro continues to make manga without learning these fundamentals, he won’t improve.
KT: Let’s put Dragon Ball aside for now. After all, Mr. Toyotaro as an author, has something to say, and I’d really like to see what you’ve expressed through your drawings.
KT: So, let’s move on to your original manga…
(to be continued in Part 2!)
Thank you very much for reading!
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Transcript of part 1:
(Chris Naz) Bonjour! Nous allons voir avec l’un des créateurs de Dragon Ball — co-créateurs de Dragon Ball et les descendants des créateurs de Dragon Ball. Nous allons étudier justement comment évolue un manga original. Je suis Naz Chris, je viens ici en tant que soutien du livre du Dr Mashirito, les Techniques de Manga Balèzes. Bienvenue à tous !
(claps)
(Chris Naz) Nous allons appeler nos invités!
(Chris Naz) Le rédacteur de manga qui a trouvé M Toriyama (Von’s note: Chris l’appelle bien ‘Toriyama-sensei’) et qui justement a permis que nous ayons Dr Slump et Dragon Ball, le rédacteur: Kazuhiko Torishima!
(claps)
(Torishima) Bonjour, bienvenue dans la réunion avec M Toyotaro. Bon, une réunion, c’est un grand mot… Mais ca va être une confrontation, peut être.
(rires de Chris et Torishima)
(Chris Naz) Et maintenant le mangaka en charge de Dragon Ball Super, Toyotaro !
(Von’s note: gros claps alors que Chris parlait, donc on n’a pas vraiment bien pu entendre la traduction de présentation)
(Chris Naz) Et donc M Torishima nous arrivons à la scène finale de l’équipre Dragon Ball de Japan Expo de cette année.
(Torishima) Oui, alors bon, ceci dit ça fait quand même beaucoup de monde pour une réunion qui a l’air barbante…
(Chris Naz) Ne dites pas ça, tout le monde attend ça avec impatience!
(claps)
(Torishima) Bon M Toyotaro, je vais te dire des choses très dures, donc respire bien fort. (Von’s note: Torishima dit Toyotaro-san tout du long. Le traducteur utilise le “tu” informel dans cette section, mais passe au “vous” après)
(Toyotaro respire bien fort, en écartant et en pliant les bras, en prenant de grandes inspirations. Von’s note: Toyotaro fait un peu de théâtre puisque Torishima en fait)
(Chris Naz) Alors vous connaissez tous M Toyotaro comme l’auteur de Dragon Ball Super mais en fait ses débuts étaient dans le fameux Dragon Ball Heroes Victory Mission.
(Chris Naz) Je pense qu’on a eu une réaction de fans qui ont tous amené leurs volumes de Dragon Ball Super pour venir vous voir, que pensez vous de cette réaction?
(Toyotaro) J’ai vraiment senti une énorme vague mondiale me frapper et j’en suis vraiment reconnaissant… (Von’s note: le traducteur a dit ça de manière assez étrange mais j’ai compris en japonais qu’il exprimait de la reconnaissance par rapport à l’accueil qu’il a reçu)
(Chris Naz) Et donc résultat vous saviez que vous aimiez tellement Dragon Ball que vous étiez étudiant vous faisiez beaucoup de dessins en immitant le trait de Dragon Ball, et maintenant nous arrivons au point ou vous vous retrouvez dans une situation ou vous allez avoir le rédacteur, l’éditeur de M Toriyama, à savoir M Torishima, qui va regarder votre manga. Etes vous tendu?
(Toyotaro) Bah je suis vraiment tendu eh, mais ceci dit, c’est un énorme honneur et un énorme bonheur pour moi d’avoir le légendaire éditeur Dragon Ball qui va regarder ce que je vais faire, et ce genre d’opportunité ne pouvait pas arriver autrement que sur une scène. Je suis très content, mais je suis très tendu.
(Chris Naz) Donc, M Torishima il y a une raison pour laquelle justement vous aviez eu envie d’avoir une discussion avec M Toyotaro, qu’est-ce qu’il en est?
(Torishima): Et donc j’ai vu en un seul coup d’oeil qu’il y avait un énorme problème sur la page de droite. Et je voulais lui dire directement. Et donc en fait quand j’ai regardé ces deux pages, j’ai trouvé que les bases du manga n’étaient pas respectées et c’est la raison pour laquelle je me suis dit que je voulais vous parler.
(Chris Naz) Sur quelles bases du manga vous pensez que cela ne fonctionne pas? Même que sur X, vous avez fait un post en disant “c’est tellement dommage”.
(Torishima) Alors, les scènes d’action se doivent d’être dynamiques, et il doit toujours y avoir un plan long, un plan medium, un plan coupé et un plan vers le haut. Et résultat, il manque un angle dans ces deux pages. Et je vous montre ici des planches de M Toriyama ici et vous pouvez comparer comment il maitrisait ces bases.
(Von’s note: à nouveau, Torishima dit “Toriyama-san” et non Toriyama-sensei)
(les pages montrées sont du combat entre Piccolo et Goku. Von’s note: ce sont des pages présents dans son livre Les Techniques de Manga Balèze du Dr Mashirito)
(Torishima) Sur la page de droite, la case en haut on voit Piccolo et Goku qui sont face à face, ce plan détaille bien quelle est la distance entre les personnages. Et grâce à ce plan qui établi les distances au début, à la fin on a Goku qui donne un coup de poing à Piccolo, et comme on a établi la distance on voit quelle vitesse Goku a parcouru une telle distance. Et ça a permis de définir aussi, quand on voit la distance parcourue par Piccolo après, la puissance du coup.
(Torishima) Et le problème c’est que dans ces deux Pages de M Toyotaro, il manque cette première case qui établit la distance entre les personnages.
(Torishima) Et donc résultat, quand nous nous sommes rencontrés, et je t’ai demandé à ce moment là qu’est ce que tu crois qu’il manque dans ces deux pages. M Toyotaro a donné la bonne réponse.
(Toyotaro) Comme vous le dites, effectivement s’il n’y a pas cette case de départ case qui définit la distance entre les personnages, on ne peut pas avoir une idée claire de la scène. Je le pensais effectivement à 100%.
(Torishima) Je tiens à préciser que ça arrive très souvent que des auteurs oublient de faire ce genre de plan qui établit les choses. Parce que les auteurs sont toujours impatients de pouvoir dessiner des scènes qui ont de l’impact. Le problème à moi, c’est que le henshu, le tanto qui est chargé de M Toyotaro n’a pas vu ça et n’a pas pu corriger le tir. Et c’est ça qui est pêche pour moi.
(Torishima) Parce que l’éditeur de l’auteur est le premier lecteur. S’il ne voit pas les défauts, qu’il laisse passer les défauts, les défauts sont publiés tels quels.
(Torishima) Ce qui veut dire aussi que l’éditeur ici ne comprend pas les bases du manga.
(Torishima) Il y a une autre scène.
(photo d’une page de Toriyama du début du stand off entre Goku et Vegeta, les pages en couleur)
(Torishima) Il y a un plan long sur les cases 1, 2, 3 qui permettent de voir et d’établir la distance qu’il y a entre Goku et Vegeta.
(Torishima) Le fait que les personnages restent dans une pose sans bouger en rassemblant leur énergie le fait qu’il y ait cette attente créé une tension qui va rajouter du dynamisme au moment où les personnages vont bouger.
(Torishima) Ce qui veut dire que même si M Toyotaro adore l’action justement de Dragon Ball, il lui manque encore ce niveau d’analyse pour comprendre à quel point — / comment l’impact est arrivé sur la page.
(Torishima) Bon je vais m’en arrêter là sur cette analyse, mais le truc c’est que si M Toyotaro continue à faire du manga sans justement apprendre ces bases là, il ne deviendra pas meilleur par la suite.
(Torishima) Laissons tomber Dragon Ball. L’idée est que M Toyotaro en tant qu’auteur a quelque chose à exprimer et j’aimerais voir ce qu’il a à exprimer sur la page.
(Torishima) Résultat, nous allons passer à son manga original.
