#tw endo

[crossparties]

just need you guys to see this bullshit that happened to us. “nonconforming”.. and “plural systems” just straight contradiction 😭 THERE IS NO “CONFORMING” ITS A DISORDER!!!!!! WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!! we need to get more aggressive towards endos. genuinely. i dont care

[npdculture]

why are you anti endo? not an endo system myself but. who gaf

They're based entirely on ableist rhetoric used to co-opt language and resources made for and by real systems.

[freeyourparts]

We're conflicted.

So one of our irl friends is also a system, and with what they have described from their experiences they are definitely a system and not going through something else. But, recently I found out that they claim to be Endo. Which, is the thing I'm conflicted about. Because they certainly have trauma, that's very apparent. And I think they have childhood trauma as well, but I can't really verify that because their parents hate me and I'm not really friends with their siblings. I suppose all of this is to say; I don't think they're Endo, I just think they have trauma that they don't remember or is being kept from them. But I can't tell them that because it's not my place to be saying things like that. Honestly, if I went by the same principles I would probably identify as Endo myself, but I don't, because you don't have to remember your trauma to be a system. I wish I could remember, and it frustrates me that we cannot remember, but that does not make us any less of a system. I suppose all of this to say, I'm frustrated and I hope they can come to the conclusion that they are not Endo(because I highly doubt it for multiple reasons). But I can't make that choice for them.

Also ngl the only reason I know this is because I recommended them your blog and they said oh I would love to but they have endos dni in their bio.

So um, yeah.

ohh :( that must be very saddening for you anon. im worried for your friend, also. i think you should consider showing them some resources about endos? like that one huge post about "endo movement origin" by anti-willo-solivan or the harmful effects believing you're endo may bring. sorry we're ill and brain fog is really heavy rn :(

edit: please do not look at the reblogs of this post. any endo or pro endo who comes across this post fuck off right now. i don't care. this blog is explicitly anti endo and anti pro endo. i will not tolerate you badmouthing my anons either. i don't care.

[icarus-collective]

Also, only post I’ll ever make about endogenics n shit, but I am one the endogenic parts that Johann was referring to. Our sign offs are 🫧, 🦢, 💘, 🔥, 🍭, and 🔎. You can call us(in order of sign offs) Aurora, Eve, Ellie, Icarus, Sweetie, and Sherlock.

No I don’t support the demedicalization of CDDs. No, I don’t think CDD plurality and endogenic plurality is equivalent. Yes I believe that CDDs are traumagenic only. That’s all I’ll say on the topic.

Anyway, can I just say that the anti-endo community is so much better than the pro-endo community? So much infighting over there if you don’t agree with every endogenic sub-label.

[thesicksys]

on my dash btw

but tell me again how people don't use sysmed

[battycemetery]

i figured since endos have a "TW anti endo" tag, im making a "TW pro endo tag" !! or alternatively, a "TW endo" tag as well

[aspd-culture]

hey, i've really enjoyed this blog so i want to make absolutely sure: your stance on endogenic systems is "they have trauma, they just don't know it"?

Yep. If someone is genuinely a system, that is incompatible with having no trauma. If someone genuinely did not have trauma, they by our current scientific understanding cannot be a system.

That said, unlike many other people with this take, I try not to push endos to realize that because if they were ready to, their system would have told them. I know *multiple* people who identified as "endo" before remembering their trauma when they were ready to and realizing they were very wrong.

I also know people who formerly identified as "endo" but realized that trauma to a child can be things as "simple" as a divorce or death of a very important person in their family etc. It's not always super intense abuse. Whilst that is much more likely to cause a system it is in no way impossible to see it from things that are not commonly thought of as traumatic. It's a great time to acknowledge this actually because it's true of every trauma disorder - childhood trauma is inherently going to be different than adult trauma because children are less resilient with less life experience and their brains are still in development so they are much less likely to "bounce back". It gets cemented in their development that pain like this is part of the world and they need to develop ways to cope.

The things that an adult believes they cannot manage to survive, and therefore need to change the way their brain functions to tolerate, has a *much* higher threshold than the same for a child because a child has not seen proof of what the human brain and body can survive. Further, a child hasn't developed the ability to emotionally support themselves, so emotional neglect can make it so what in no way even upsets a child with a support system may feel unsurvivable to a child without any. If you didn't know how much blood you could lose and still live, you would think the smallest scratch might kill you - that's what life is to a child.

All of that is to say, systems don't need to have lived through unspeakable horrors to be systems, but they *do* need to have some sort of trauma as far as we currently know. If you look into adverse child experiences (ACEs), you will probably be surprised as to what counts as traumatic in the mind of a child. I cannot stress enough that a kid may become traumatized enough to develop a system from almost *any* normal negative part of life if they have no emotional support to teach them how to adjust and handle pain. That is where, in that case, the system would come in - to be the ones helping them process and handle pain since no one else is.

If the psych community were to find in multiple repeatable studies that there is a reason for non-traumagenic systems to develop, I would change my stance because I know that psych knowledge especially has a very short half-life. We learn new things all the time. But for what we currently know about how systems develop, they cannot do so without some type of sustained trauma.

If that affects your enjoyment of this blog, I'm not sure what to say. It is not common that systems even get discussed here, though it does come up sometimes because both are trauma disorders (with ASPD being infrequently purely genetic I think?). When it does come up - because all of this blog besides the culture asks are based in current psych knowledge, the DSM/ICD, and my personal anecdotes - you will see my understanding in my discussions of it. It's not to alienate anyone, but it's no different than someone asking me to say something currently believed to be factually wrong about ASPD for their comfort; I can't and won't do that.

I don't mean to come off hostile, this is all /neutral, it's just that I hate the idea that an ASPD blog that is helpful or enjoyable to someone might in some way have that positive impact affected by a currently accepted truth about a completely unrelated disorder.

Is it right of me to take that out on you though my tone? No, because you're not the one causing that emotion bc I don't even particularly know your stance on this. Unfortunately though, despite rewriting this post like 3 times, I cannot seem to get the /neutral tone to come across properly. Just... please understand it is there because my autism is not letting me phrase it right.

[mildew-mop]

Read my DNI in my pinned post. If you fail to look at my page, and get upset with me over where I stand about things, and get it wrong, I’m just going to ignore you.

“Endogenic systems” who use terms like “sysmed” and “traumascum” are just blatantly admitting that they know they are wrong. They have to use terminology relating to transphobes so that they can trick people who are uneducated about what a system is to gain sympathy points. It is absurd.

Becoming a system is a trauma response to repeated abuse as a child. The type of system can vary (DID, OSDD, etc), as well as the abuse, but being a system is a trauma response. It is possible to not remember your trauma, it is possible to work through it and live a functional life. It still originates from childhood PTSD.

“Endogenic systems” try to compare this to being transgender. I have seen posts about “xeno origins” trying to compare this severe psychological trauma response to gender aesthetics. You cannot compare these two things. Its just completely absurd. A lot of times actual systems find it difficult to articulate how its absurd because these are not comparable things at all.

I’m not even sure if I know exactly how to explain this, but I feel like it should be considered common sense that PTSD responses and gender identity are vastly unrelated. Someone pointing this out does not make them the equivalent of a trans-medicalist, harassing non-binary people for not transitioning.

This comparison is only made because a lot of people understand how trans-medicalism is bad, and when the comparison is made to that, they want to take the side that was right in that discourse. Its an understandable response, that is why those terms are used to manipulate people.

You cannot become a system without trauma first, regardless of if you can remember it or not.