#twoweeksoftheon

[fleurdeliet]

I finished it!

It's an art for Two weeks of Theon: day 8 - Bravery

Theon and Jeyne escaping Ramsay

[selkiewife]

She should not look to me for rescue. Theon Greyjoy might have tried to help her, once. But Theon had been ironborn, and a braver man than Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with weak.

TWO WEEKS OF THEON ↳ What Ifs- What if OLIVA COOKE had been cast as JEYNE POOLE

[cola-fiend]

TWO WEEKS OF THEON: Animals

Me and the horse that represents my fragile sense of freedom and idealistic egocentrism hate your vibe.

[theonsource]

This was never my home. I was a hostage here. Lord Stark had not treated him cruelly, but the long steel shadow of his greatsword had always been between them. ~ A Dance With Dragons ↳ TWO WEEKS OF THEON: Lovers, Friends, Family, & Foes

[alleyskywalker]

TWO WEEKS OF THEON | Parallels | Theon vs. Armand (IWTV)

[harlothane]

Asha + Theon / Echoes of one another in their POVs

[ladystoneboobs]

Two Weeks of Theon: What-Ifs

i'm not a fanfic writer or fanartist, but sometimes i like to think of au turns of fate for theon after balon's first rebellion. just thinking of all the ways his life was screwed no matter what, all the different ways his childhood could have been worse or bad in a different way, just never really that much better for long. there's no hostage scenario which doesn't turn to turn to shit sooner or later, with misery and/or very real danger of death, and it's why i just can't help but feel for him.

if balon had refused to bend the knee and lost his head for it, or just died fighting instead of leaving all the hard work to his brothers and older sons. with rodrik and maron still dead, theon could be a child lord, but obviously robert would appoint his own loyal regent, not one of theon's uncles who had just fought against him. and imo the person for that unpleasant task of ruling the isles as a foreign invader would be stannis, royal master of ships who'd just helped robert defeat the iron fleet. so theon is raised by stannis, he who is notoriously without mercy, a captive in his own home. there would inevitably be an ironborn resistance, trying to free theon (and asha and alannys), but there wouldn't be a united opposition. would vic and pre-born again aeron listen to rodrik the reader? and would they be effective at all without a smart person to lead them? either way, there'd be another group gathering around euron wanting theon (and maybe asha) dead (at their hands or stan's if they could provoke him) so that euron could take the throne as the only greyjoy strong enough to win balon's war and take their revenge. so even if a non-kinslayer uncle, greyjoy or harlaw, or anyone else loyal to balon's kids managed to free theon, then euron would still be waiting as the biggest danger.

alternately, what if robert gave theon as hostage to stannis, rather than the friend he loved more than his brothers? theon grows up on dreary dragonstone, worse than dreary pyke bc it wasn't his family's home and there wouldn't even be boys his own age to befriend. stuck with selyse and axell florent while stannis was in kl (and stannis himself when he was home), the only bright spots being if stannis ever took him to court with him, or when justin massey or other more fun vassals came to dragonstone. then when stannis discovers the incest, returns to dragonstone and locks down the island, theon's stuck for good. and when stannis learned of balon's 2nd rebellion, he wouldn't hesitate to execute theon even if he just fought for him on the blackwater.

or what if robert didn't turn to his brother or his foster brother to take theon when balon bent the knee, but instead his father-in-law. theon grows up in luxury at casterly rock, maybe actually befriends tyrion, but also gets sucked into lannister dysfunction and the tywin lannister school of tyranny, which would be a different mix on top of greyjoy dysfunction/abuse and ironborn tyranny. when war breaks out, theon's drafted on the lannister side against the starks/tullys in the riverlands. if he's in jaime's army, there's a chance he becomes a stark captive under very different circumstances. actually no, wait, becoming a stark/tully prisoner might be theon's only chance of survival in this au bc if he's raised a lannister hostage instead, there's a very high chance that balon would enter the war by attacking the westerlands after all, so if theon was still with tywin when that news hits there goes his head on a spike in harrenhal or the red keep.

or if robert just took theon hostage himself back to kl, rather than delegating a proxy to guarantee balon's loyalty to him. this could be the best au scenario captor-wise, at least while robert's alive. robert was more pro-child killing than ned but also even more short-sighted and ignorant of possible danger, known for winning over/befriending past (non-targ) enemies. would a guy willing to kill tommen and myrcella after thinking they were his own flesh and blood for their whole lives even think to distance himself from a hostage on the faint possibility of another lord being willing to sacrifice his only son? or would he be more likely to let theon get attached only to then do an aboutface and execute him in a rage if balon shocked him by rebelling against the iron throne again after all? since that never happened in robert's reign, theon could have been the eldest son he'd never had (since he didn't care for joffrey and never met gendry), with robert gladly initiating him into drinking and whoring, joining a group of hangers-on like justin massey. (i could also see theon getting along with renly and loras, but considering loras left the redwyne twins--his own double cousins--behind when he and renly split town, idt they'd bother to take theon when they fled after robert's mortal injury either.) the real problem would be joffrey, a jealous and cruel foster brother, with his status as crown prince giving some power to try to bully theon despite being younger, and cersei, a queen overprotective of joffrey and hating anyone close to robert. then after cersei kills robert, she and king joff have complete control over hostage theon, abused prisoner alongside sansa. and again, good chance balon would attack the westerlands in this au as they're much closer than kl or the baratheon stormlands, so theon would need to find some way to escape lannister custody to survive.

or what if robert gave custody to his foster father, jon arryn? lord arryn can't raise a hostage the same as ned and robert, who were straight up wards, and he's no longer childless himself and only in charge of his own homeland as he was back then. in canon timeline jon arryn was too busy ruling all the realm as hand to pay too much attention to his own wife and heir. imagine theon with lysa and sweetrobin. after jon arryn's death, he'd either be stuck with them at the eyrie and later have to deal with littlefinger too or robert would take custody and it would play out like above bulletpoint. most interesting scenario is if robert/cersei manage to send both theon and sweetrobin to tywin at the rock.

or if ned just remembered to keep his hostage close by bringing theon to kl with him. (idt ned ever thought of theon in a fatherly way but he at the least saw him as a kid who was robb's close friend. that has to be why he left theon at wf, bc i can't imagine he actually expected 14yo robb to behead his boyhood friend on what must seem like a slim possibility (esp by then, after almost 10 years) of balon rebelling. whatever his capacity for cruelty to theon, idt he'd be capable of such cruelty to his own child(ren) and mr. personal responsibility wrt killing would have felt this was his personal duty after taking charge of theon, if he actually thought of the possibility at all.) there's a pretty good chance theon could get killed with all the stark guardsmen in the throne room, since cersei's coup was far from foolproof. but if someone reminded her of his (supposed) value as a hostage and arrangements were made to take him alive, then again he'd be captive alongside sansa, except this is the only au where they wouldn't be meeting for the first time.

or if everything else stayed the same except euron returned home earlier, same time as theon at the start of the war. all of balon's and theon's war plans go out the window with balon's murder and euron taking the throne. theon who came determined to be balon's heir would not stand for this, but could only survive by working with asha, who was a stranger to him by then. this scenario has the highest chance of theon's death imo. bc really what it comes down to is theon was always screwed, even if he made better choices in canon acok, even if he took his last chance to leave with asha, they'd still just have to deal with euron later. always caught between foreign captors and a kinslayer uncle with no true chance for escape both.

[hell-heron]

Show VS books - Theon's choice

So, I was hoping to post this for show VS books day and also to have time to rewatch the show to factcheck my impressions, which was not possible as my streaming service failed me, so I welcome any corrections about what I am writing. (Please no insults or like. Objections to the general concept of comparing an adaptation to its source material or of sharing critical thoughts about things you don't like. I think these are fine and fun things to do, if you disagree, just do not read this lenghty tome).

Still, I wanted to talk about the way Theon's choice between fighting with his family and remaining loyal to Robb is framed in the show, even before taking a very obvious Stark-goggles view the way it did in the following seasons. In my opinion, the show handled the ACOk storyline very movingly with great acting and some great writing, but still fell into the trap of conveying a certain amount of "shouldn't it be a no brainer to pick friend who values you over bio family that hates you?" in ways that in many cases weren't the writing's fault as it was impossible for a TV show to convey the same nuances as the book, but in some other cases might have been avoided. Here's how imho:

Theon swearing fealty to Robb explicitely, everyone's favorite bugbear. Not one I am particularly attached to, because really I think Theon's situation of being sent, while technically a hostage, to negotiate an alliance with his father and being refused remains legally ambiguous and kind of unprecedented whether or not he swears specific words of fealty. If he didn't swear it in the books, did he not effectively do it by arranging an alliance with Robb anyway, even though he couldn't know whether that alliance would really work out, meaning it was always a conditional loyalty? If he did, is it really binding/something he had a choice about? Still, it gives a very different impression to the casual viewer.

General less established worldbuilding on the taboo of kinslaying and taking arms against family which is just inherent to the medium of short-season TV show VS enciclopaedic saga and couldn't really be helped

Not seeing Theon's inner thoughts on the matter of family, another thing which can't be helped, which show his attitude as more nuanced as he's very aware and critical of the toxicity of his father and brothers but still has an expectation of being welcomed. Thus the hint that he remembers being loved and valued as a child even in a broken dysfunctional way and so reasonably expects to be again on his return

Ditto re: Theon's thoughts on the political situation of the islands which he does have an understanding of and feels a sense of duty to improve, mixed with the desire for glory and being a hero to his people

Starting with some things that can be helped: absolutely 0 sense of the Islands as being in a crisis, destroyed, in poverty, or being damaged by Robert and Ned's host or having somewhat substantiated desires of revenge, besides the deaths of Rodrik and Maron.

Actually expanding on this point bc the show chose to not get to any extent into what the relationship between Theon and his brothers was like. In the books, Theon remembers being abused by them and only expresses a desire of revenge when it helps justify himself to his family, developing a frequent theme in the books that vengeance is often very much not a simple and natural feeling but selfish and weaponized. The show understandably doesn't get into this sort of thematic/psychological analysis, so why not use the deaths of Theon's brothers as something that has a bit more weight in his choice? It was not difficult or time consuming to add some comment about their childhood or about mourning them etc, not as difficult as doing some of the other stuff I mention on this list lmao. It would have built more sympathy for him.

Theon is apparently getting no official welcome besides his sister's initiative to seduce him (Its possible Balon sent Yara and Yara independently decided to seduce him, but it meshes kind of weirdly with the way she lets Theon in on his own and then makes her cinematic entrance in the middle of the conversation) in the book, while Theon is unhappy with Aeron due to his desire to have his parents welcome him instead and Aeron's change and attitude to him, he's objectively a perfectly good person to send to fetch the heir, as a close family member and a priest with great authority and respect.

Theon has no one who loves him on the islands, no mother, no Dagmer, no childhood friends he finds he can't quite connect with again, no Wex, no men who choose to remain loyal to him at Winterfell. Wex is particularly interesting because, while some interpret the offering of a disabled bastard squire as a sign of the ironborn noble families's disdain for Theon, I think it's actually a fairly normal feudalistic exchange of favors. After all Theon is asked to take Wex on as a squire as payment for his horse, so certainly with the understanding he's doing the Botleys a solid by giving an opportunity to a boy who would otherwise not be allowed many, and Lord Botley later champions Theon's claim against Euron. So this little detail could have been a helpful shorthand for Theon succeeding in developing some kind of relationships and loyalty on the islands which he could think he might have developed if he had time and proved himself

Theon in the show is given a ship for his diversion raids while Yara gets 30 ships that appear to be the entire deployed force (??), which is a lot more extreme than "Victarion gets the whole fleet, Asha gets 30 ships, Theon gets 8". The book arrangement feels like an insult to Theon but is reasonable for someone who was never a captain before and who's unknown to his father. The show arrangement is a lot more of an open insult that doesn't really allow us to understand Theon's hope to improve his standing.

Probably couldn't have been helped, given the tight timeline of the show, but: book Theon gets a shining military success, though one of modest proportions in his victory against Benfred Tallart's sortie, before he undertakes the mission to Winterfell, which makes the plan seem somewhat less dumb. Also taking Winterfell being his own idea rather than it being pushed by show!Dagmer shouldn't have huge weight in this but it does make his choice seem more motivated (by his own rage and revenge, for his own political aims) and less pathetic

Moving the pivotal execution of ser Rodrik so early after Theon's taking of Winterfell undercuts the slow descent into despair and violence that Theon experiences in the books. We're supposed to think Theon made an irremediably wrong choice when he burned the letter to Robb, rather than having several chances to stop himself on the path to becoming a child murderer which he for various reasons doesn't take.

While Alfie and for once imho the writing as well do a great job of conveying Theon's pain and trauma for what he went through at Winterfell, it was evidently chosen not to focus or even explicitely mention outside the worldbuilding videos (iirc) how Ned would have been expected to execute him and his fear of that. Skipping the Beth parley is obviously a factor in this (which I will never understand, btw, it seems so perfectly made for TV...) , but even the very beautiful emotional moments that were scripted to replace it just focus on other things. The dialogue with Master Luwin for example has Theon associate fear with the walls of Winterfell, in a line so good I frequently forget it wasn't in the books, but still there's a writing choice to center a fear that comes from a sense of intimidation and inferiority towards the people who defeated his family rather than the material reality of being constantly up for execution. That completely recontextualises the situation and his relationship to house Stark

The matter of Theon's men loyalty to him deserves some expansion in general because like... GRRM, for all that we tease him for the "what was Aragorn's tax policy" line, does invest much time and attention in portraying in detail the choices of all his leader characters, their popularity and relationships with their followers. So even Theon whose leadership skills are not very important gets the sketch of a nuanced political situation. We know that Theon leads his men into several missions before Winterfell, that he's able to convince Dagmer to support his plan to take Winterfell and that his men follow him in this high-risk mission, that he punishes them for fighting over plunder and for committing rape, that he has some of them killed and that he executes Northmen to give them a semblance of justice and is haunted by both, that he doesn't feel like they would keep the secret of the murdered boys' identity, that they grow restless and ambivalent during their time in Winterfell but still do their duty, that one of them specifically takes issue morally with him using Beth against her father and wishes they could just have an open battle, that he offers them the chance to surrender rather than die with him and they are reluctant to refuse it but most do it. There was never going to be anything like that in the brief plotline of a minor character, obviously, but needing to simplify, was really "they knock him out and hand him over to the enemy" the best simplification? It was for the theme they wanted to convey, which is that there was a right and a wrong choice obvious from the start and that poor Theon, understandably and tragically, chose wrong.