would anyone around here 30+ and working and/or owning a home be willing to sit through a zoom meeting with an undergrad who gets paid like $22 for talking about cutlery. you don't have to buy anything the $22 is for not selling anything. i'm kinda desperate for work but also will not be taking this job if it's not feasible (unpaid 2 days of training nonsense be fr)
I just got my SECOND letter in the mail from Vector Marketing (the company that owns Cutco, which is a pyramid scheme that tries to make you sell kitchen knives to everyone you know and to recruit everyone you know) and I would like to tell anyone freshly out of highschool or early in college that this company is a SCAM. Vector Marketing specifically preys on teenagers and young adults with promises of high commission pay when in reality you'll find yourself getting bled dry of possibly thousands of dollars. If you get a letter from them then throw it right in the trash, and make sure to dissuade anyone that's thinking of taking them up on their offer.
MLM stands for Multi-Level Marketing, and it’s an updated term for something we might be familiar with: pyramid schemes. For those who are unfamiliar, pyramid schemes are “companies” where one person or a small group of people at the top and all the people at the bottom send the majority of the wealth to the top. This sounds normal, but the problem is that the only way for a new recruit to make any money is to recruit multiple other people for the company to work under them.
There are two problems with this. The first is that there are quite literally not enough people. If one person recruits 5 people and each of those 5 people recruited 5 more, there are only enough people on the planet to go through this cycle about 14 times. The second problem is that you have to be pretty high up in the MLM to make money. According to the FTC (Federal Trade Commission), about 99% of all MLM “employees” don’t make any sort of money (x).
And that’s just a background on my little rant today. Most of my MLM-hate is directed at one company in particular: Vector Marketing.
Vector Marketing was founded in 1981 and sells cutlery and other kitchen utensils for the company that owns them called “Cutco”. Their annual revenue is about $245 million dollars and is an A+ according to the Better Business Bearuea.
So what’s the problem with them? Well, there are multiple.
The first is their pretty smarmy recruiting tactics. “High school and college students are the most vulnerable age category in the work force and you better know Vector Marketing understands that.” Kaitlin Tomko, from the article “I Worked At Vector Marketing So You Don’t Have To” (x) wrote. While college students are usually adults and fair game, going after high school students is pretty sketchy. Then there’s the fact that they’re rather repetitive while they’re at it too.
I’ve personally gotten at least three letters from them between my Junior year in high school and last week (May 2020 for anyone who sees this post later). All three of these letters promised different entry-level wages ($11.50/hour, $13/hour, and $18/hour). They can also get your number from any of your friends that just so happen to work for the company (see attached screenshot) (also, I don’t blame the person who gave them my number, they’re really trick like that; all love towards her, she was trying to do the right thing).
Then there’s the product itself. By all accounts and reviews, it’s a good product with knives that last. That’s not the issue. Cutco’s knives are stamped instead of forged, a process that has 40 steps in its testing. Forged knives are generally better, but that’s not to say that stamped knives bad. But when you see a forged WÜSTHOF 8-inch knife produced by a 200-year-old German company and compare it with the stamped Cutco knife, also 8-inches, you don’t expect that the less expensively-produced knife to be so expensive. The WÜSTHOF costs $149.95 (x) while the Cutco knife is $142 (x).
Then there’s Vector’s problems with the government. According to the Washington Post, “David Tatar, a Wisconsin consumer protection investigator, said that state surveyed 940 Vector recruits in 1992 and found that almost half either earned nothing or lost money working for Vector, because the company encourages workers to lease or buy a sample set of knives for their presentations. In 1994, Wisconsin ordered Vector ‘not to deceive young people it recruits . . . as salespeople.’ Tatar said the investigation was a catalyst for changes effective Aug. 1 in the state's consumer protection laws,” (x). Wisconsin actually banned Vector within state lines, so there’s that In 2008, there was a class-action lawsuit levelled at Vector for not paying their employees minimum wage and they had to settle for $13 million dollars (x). And these aren’t the only suits: [x]
Why does the BBB say they’re an A+ then? Simple: they have an actual product and they don’t go door-to-door (which a lot of MLMs do), but they do encourage “salespeople” to do so. Yes, the bar is that low.
So. Basically. I don’t like Vector, they need to stop sending me letters, and if they ever contact you, don’t fall for it.
Vector Marketing: Not Quite A Scam, But Might As Well Be One
So for reference, here are the players in this story:
Me, recent electrical engineering graduate in an intense job searching phase
My brother, J, who has never really bothered to do any job searching since graduating high school but recently has decided he needs to start being more responsible
VM Guy, who J calls "The Dad of the Group™", which is pretty fucking creepy imo. We'll also find out later he's kind of an asshole
This all takes place in my hometown, a small rural area in Texas about an hour away from a fairly big coastal city.
So my brother, J, isn't exactly known to take initiative when it comes to job hunting. He's done a few odd jobs here and there, but that was mainly thanks to family members and our parents, but those jobs never really lasted long. Anyway, I get a text one day from him while I was visiting my girlfriend that, surprise surprise, he got a job. I was pretty impressed, not gonna lie. At this point I had been applying for jobs as well, and that he beat me to the finish line, I thought, was a good sign. About an hour later, I get an odd text from a number I didn't recognize saying that J had referred me and asking if I would be interested in coming in for an interview. No details on the job or anything, just an interview. It piqued my interest, but the lack of info was suspicious to me, so I put it on the back burner and waited until I could ask J about it in person (since it was obviously his doing).
Turns out this was the best decision I had made during all this because I later came to find out this "company" J worked for was basically Red Flag Inc.
Anyway, I get home after a nice, long weekend with my girlfriend and J decides to start showing off all his “job tools”: A pretty expensive-ass set of knives and various kitchenware, a binder containing a catalog of said knives and kitchenware, and a nice bag to hold everything in. My initial thought was, oh nice, I guess he’s a salesman or something. He shows me a few things that he demonstrated in trying to sell these items: cutting a rope, cutting a penny (wtf) and a few other things that I don’t really remember at this point. Pretty impressive (we later got a cheese knife as a reward or something for his time there, and, I won’t lie, that is a good damn cheese knife. Also, I think I’m addicted to cheese). Then I ask him the ultimate question: “So, J, who is it you work for again?” “They are called Vector Marketing. They basically just sell all this stuff. Some people were saying they were a scam, but I don’t really think so.”
Oh fuck, J, what have you gotten yourself into this time.
If what he said about them wasn’t already a massive Red Flag™, the things I came to find out about vEcTOR mArKeTInG in the following 24 hours only made my suspicions about them even worse. I won’t detail all that shit here since there’s has been a billion different posts about them, but I’ll talk about the relevant ones. Basically, you sell that kitchenware to friends and family, and you make money off of what you sell. It isn’t a lot apparently, but you at least get some amount of cash off of just making a sales pitch if you don’t sell anything. This also means a lot of driving for someone like my brother who lives in a rural area; getting anywhere means a 30 min drive at the least. The problem I had with them here is they should be at least paying for a portion of your gas, but apparently VM has such a shitty business model that everything their salespeople have to pay for comes out of their pocket and not VM’s. On top of all this is this weird family-esque atmosphere they try to portray. On more than one occasion, J referred to his boss as The Dad of the Group™, which is fucking creepy and weird. If he had been working there for say a year or so, okay, maybe they just are really tight knit from working together for so long and that’s just how employees see this boss of theirs. But it had only been a few days. I honestly believe there’s some weird psychological manipulation in all that. But again, the kicker for me was the total lack of information. “Are you interested in an interview. J has referred you to our company.” If it were along the lines of
“Hey Quasi, we’re Company X. We specialize in the marketing of Product A and Service B. We are messaging you because one of our employees, J, has referred you to us and we would like to know if you want to learn more about our company. Blah blah ...”
You get the picture. I haven’t been to their website, but apparently it’s the same way: total information blackout with what little information there being very vague about what it is VM actually does. If I can’t make out what your company does based on your website, you need better PR and advertising. I shouldn’t have to learn about your company from Reddit and tumblr post asking if you are a scam or not.
So yeah, that message I got from them? Deleted. Didn’t even bother to ask my brother about it. I actually got another message from them a couple of days later asking if I was still interested. Haven’t heard back since, don’t intend on replying. I think I blocked the number, to be honest.
J, on the other hand, worked for them for all of 3 weeks I believe. He quit when Dad Boss™ started toying with him about meeting hours. Basically, Dad Boss™ set a group text to all his employees that a meeting was being held. J complied, as a good employee would, and drove 30 min (rural area, remember?) to get to the office only to find that no one was there. J would get another text then saying the meeting was pushed back a few hours, so he would wait around until the designated time, only to find the office empty again. This went on for a few days until I think J realized that Dad Boss™ didn’t want him as an employee anymore. One phone call from Dad Boss™ later and he was out. I don’t think he made much money from the job, and as far as I can tell he’s been trying to get a new job. Hopefully, the next one he gets is better.
I’m going to be honest, I don’t think vECtOr mARkETiNg is an outright scam. It does seem like it works for some people, but from the various threads and posts I’ve read those people are few and far in between. They might even be lying about their work there to try and lure more people in, but I have no proof of that and I’m only speculating. But for someone like my brother, high school graduate only with no job experience, that’s not a good way to enter the job market. And again, I’m no business major, but VM’s business model is definitely crap and highly suspicious the closer you look at it. But from what I could see, it simply sounds like shitty work for little pay and a massive waste of time.
TL;DR: If you see an advertisement for, an email from, or get a call or text asking if you are interested in Vector Marketing, don’t do it. If you see any sort of job ad that provides little to no information about said job or company hiring, don’t do it. I know how hard it is to get a job with no experience in this economy; I’m a graduate electrical engineer who has applied at least 30 times in the past two months and I’m only just now getting an interview. Job hunting nowadays is a lot of waiting and it can be discouraging. But trust me, it is better to bide you time by applying to legitimate places and waiting for interviews to come your way. Use Indeed, get a LinkedIn, go apply on the companies website, literally do anything other than take vague job offers. Your hard work and patience will pay off.
not actually a scam. they don’t force reps to buy their set of demo knives to use, or even pay to start up. if a branch has you pay, they are way outdated and you should complain to the higher-ups
actual quality merchandise. Cutco is a great company and many people are happy with their knives. and they will often say it’s better than anything they’ve used prior. a very nice product guarantee, too. “Forever Guarantee.” solid customer care
that said, Vector targets young college aged kids and high school seniors who are still a bit naive about the world to be reps
ask you to sell out your friends (90% of your contacts list) for a sweet prize. they can’t force you, but you will get the Disappointed Dad stare if you don’t. this is fully legal. they can’t force you to give out personal information like that, but if you volunteer...well...
advertise as a “make your own hours” job and then pushes you hard to have a full schedule 13 hours a day, 7 days a week (even on holidays). you get another Disappointed Dad stare if you don’t
seems to be run by people who don’t actually know how poor people economics work
they expect everyone to make $6k in sales in one week. unless you know some fancy rich people who are in the market for some knives, you’re out of luck
unpaid training that lasts for a full day of work, several days in a row. this is mandatory. so is the weekly meeting/team-building exercise. you will never get paid for this time. nor will you get paid for working your ass off calling everyone you know to set up demos. again, you’re supposed to be working for 13 hours a day, 7 days a week, no vacations. or you get the Disappointed Dad stare. also, if you do REALLY WELL, you will be forced to come in for an extra hour every day, at way-too-fuckin-early in the morning for a shiny new job title
if you sell out your friends and family and your soul, and push really REALLY hard, and don’t mind working for no pay (you get paid per demo, or commission, whichever’s higher. commission increases as you make sales), you can actually earn a ton of money (which covers the cost of not getting paid for doing work)
you will be constantly harassed via email and snail mail to return to vector. shredded paper makes good nesting material for birds
Hey, if you get a call or letter from “Vector Marketing,” it’s a scam. They make you train for free, (or even pay for training, according to some), then they make you pay at least $144 to start, and then finally you can start work. And make no money because you’re not paid hourly or commission, but based on appointments. They’ve also tried flooding search engines with fake sites and paid people to rave about Vector on forums and such. Be careful.
Sources: X X X
