#victimgate

[bylerschmyler]

I might need some help folks.

Im S4 when Owens explains the Hawkins Situation to El he gives us the home address of all 3 victims that got killed to that point.

We also know that Max lives in the Forrest Hills Trailer Park.

I have yet to find the streets from the victims in any in Show source.

We also have this piece of the S2 Map that indicates the Trailer Park being in South East Hawkins.

the Map isn't really reliable anymore because Lovers Lake was moved to north west Hawkins.

[evilbookworm]

something is going to happen to Mike wheeler. The odds are literally stacked against him.

One: he’s been very emotionally closed off during volume 1, especially after his parents were ATTACKED and his sister went MISSING. Nancy broke down, but Mike didn’t even cry?

Two: Nancy’s vision from Vecna mentions Karen, Ted, Holly, AND Mike. And this isn’t mentioned in s5 at all?!?! Like, it’s almost like they dance around it. I highly doubt Nancy just forgot.

Three: Mike is literally highlighted as one of the three most important people to Will, including Jonathan and Joyce. And even at the end of Volume One, with all those people still at the base, the demogorgon CHOSE to target Mike, even though JOYCE was also there, not to mention, again, that PLENTY OTHERS WERE STILL ALIVE.

[littleprincefan]

also mike drinking coffee and looking a little bit miserable victimgate crumbs for those with eyes to see

[littleprincefan]

i recently found out about victimgate while researching the byler gates and i've been thinking about it really hard because in my eyes it makes complete sense. in fact, even if its a bit speculation heavy on my part, the pattern it brings to vecna's killings in relation to the party and will&el specifically is REALLY satisfying in my eyes:

the first victim: chrissy - getting their attention

i think that chrissy was a very intentional target not only due to her trauma and her struggles, but who she was in hawkins: a popular cheerleader, the basketball team captain's girlfriend, and a girl who was very well liked as far as we can tell. her death would shock the town, and most importantly, get the party's attention.

i don't know if vecna attacking chrissy when she got to eddie's trailer was intentional on his part or not, but it very well could've been. eddie was close to dustin, mike and lucas, and lived right next to max. the party would probably be alarmed by chrissy's death, and by eddie being involved. they would probably try to look further into it. chrissy dying would get the party's attention.

it's also good to note that mike didn't know about chrissy's death because he left to california the morning her body was found.

the second victim: fred - luring them in

fred was a great second target for vecna for a few reasons, including the things he was dealing with, but i think it's interesting that out of all of the party's new friends / people they know that are clueless of the upside down, he targeted a boy that was friends with nancy.

we all know that nancy always wants to get to the bottom of things, and vecna probably knew that very well, as we see him target her at the end of s4 with barb and the guilt she feels for barb's death. we know vecna (the mind flayer in reality, but i like to think vecna was also seeing what the mind flayer saw) spied on the group through will in s2, but he also did that through the flayed in s3, and who got flayed early on in s3?

nancy's boss and colleagues from hawkins post.

i have reason to believe vecna knew that nancy was always trying to figure things out, so he targeted fred for that reason. fred and nancy were friends from the school paper, and being the closest to her it only made sense that he went along with her when she eventually decided to take on the investigation herself. he offered nancy confirmation that there might have been a pattern to these killings on a silver platter. nancy, then, would clue everyone else in on what she found out, while the others who went after eddie also investigated. they then would be able to piece things together from then, recognise the pattern, leading to:

the third victim: max - direct involvement, direct attacks

max is a very smart girl, and she easily pieced it together that she was the third victim. i think vecna meant for max to figure it out, because he knew they would try to form a plan to stop him. in the end, max survived the attack because nancy and robin figured out the music being able to snap people out of the trance thing, which he didn't expect.

BUT, looking at max being a target through the lens of it working, max was a perfect target.

max was a member of the party, she was directly connected to the group's inner circle, but most importantly, a close friend of will and el. emphasis on her being close to el.

as we saw in the end of s4, max being killed would greatly affect el, seeing as before lenora she was the closest to el (other than mike, but we'll get to that) in the party. targeting max would make el angry, and she would definitely want to kill henry in return. killing max would be a huge blow to the party, and it would affect everyone. by having them laser-focused on defeating him, stopping more deaths from happening and getting revenge for max, vecna would be getting them exactly where he wants them to be.

and especially, he would be getting will and el exactly where he wants them to be. will and el are vecna's main targets, but ultimately, we have reason to believe that vecna's main goal is getting will.

and to do that, to hit the two of them where it hurts, it only makes sense who he'd pick for his final target.

the fourth victim: mike - the final blow

in a perfect world (for vecna), mike never went to california. in that perfect world, he stayed in hawkins, where he could've been targeted by vecna.

mike went through a lot of trauma throughout s1-3, and even before that with all of the bullying. we can be fairly sure that mike was (and still is) suffering from depression, and we have seen him show suicidal tendencies in the show, by jumping off of the quarry in s1 without knowing el would save him. and thats not mentioning his very likely struggle with internalised homophobia + liking will.

we also know mike tends to be very selfless and reckless when it comes to his friends. hell, he literally jumped off of the quarry to keep dustin safe, and we all know what lengths he went to to get will back.

i have reason to believe that while looking for a possible fourth target, mike would either ignore the signs that he was a target or purposefully keep the symptoms to himself.

in this scenario where max died, they never figured out the music thing, so maybe he just felt hopeless anyways.

mike's death would also affect will and el the most, considering they're the two people closest to him.

el would already be destroyed from max's death, and losing mike on top of that would possibly shatter her completely. romantic or not, el's love for mike is insanely strong, so losing him would destroy her.

vecna also probably knows about will's crush on mike. he knows mike is the most important person to will, he saw mike's swingset confession in s2, he was inside of will's mind. he knows mike dying would affect will the most, and that he would even possibly try to give himself up to save mike.

mike is the heart, and once the heart dies, everything else goes with it.

so yeah all that to say mike is 100% FUCKED in s5 and i am scared for him (i am cheering so hard)

[fandomhopper23]

Jeez, mike's screwed ain't he?

[evilbookworm]

Guys???

[bylerschmyler]

Vecna's curse and Time Fuckery

OMG! I Noticed something that ties into the general time fuckery happening.

So I've been talking about the timings off the killings back in the day and how it's weird that Chrissy talked about her symptoms with Ms. Kelley on March 13th.

Which is super weird because Max talks about Chrissy's symptoms on March 23rd like this

Which doesn't really make sense for me because Chrissy's headaches started 10 days prior to the day Max talks about them but she is referring to the start as a week ago. Which in context of the rest off her reference is basically saying 7 days (without saying 7 day straight).

So I tired to explain that with Chrissy's symptoms from the 13th are not the real curse symptoms but something like a pre curse. But since we are talking about time fuckery and Vecna all the time (courtesy to tag @aemiron-main and @henrysglock here) I think it ties into something else.

So when I analyzed my #victimgate analysis I was talking about how the timeline Max is giving us the implication that the cursing went like this:

March 17th -> Chrissy gets cursed

March 18th -> Fred gets cursed

March 19th -> Max gets cursed

I don't talk about Patrick here because I don't think he was an original victim but rather a replacement for Mike (my whole analysis about it is pinned on my blog). Following the timings Mike would have been cursed on March 20th.

So considering the timeline I just mapped out Chrissy and Fred died on the 5th day of being cursed. Max's timing is off since the original 4th victim is replaced by Patrick on March 23rd (the 5th day of her curse) and she gets her vision later that day and the day after.

Considering Vecna's connection the 5th day seems odd unless you consider my math here about the curse:

4 days off Symptoms

4 nights off nightmares

1 day with 4 visions

4 visions you may ask? Yes 4 visions. Both Chrissy and Fred likely had 4 visions. The first one is just not shown to the audience.

Max says that Fred and Chrissy both died less than 24 hours after their first vision

So how did Ms Kelley know that Fred was having a visions if his visions started at the Trailerpark and he than vanished into the woods to end up on the street where he finally dies?

And how did she know about Chrissy's vision if she did go to Eddie to buy drugs after her vision in the bathroom stall?

Well for Chrissy it's pretty simple:

We know she has fixed appointments on thursdays (see the first screenshot). So her going to Ms Kelley on Friday (March 21st) is an out off the ordinary visit. And what would trigger such a visit? Likely her seeing a creepy grandfather clock attached to a wall before waking up and the clock is not their anymore. And why would she so upset? Well if someone tells you that everything bad that is happening right now is just all in your head.

For Freddy it seems more complicated at first. Until you remember where we see him first at on March 22nd. He is at school. In the newspaper room. And he easily could have went to Ms Kelley if she was at school too. So she would know about his vision too.

So since we have established how I think the curse works now get back around to the timer fuckery.

Remember what I initially talked about how Chrissy symptoms started on March 13th according to the notes from Ms Kelley. So you know how their are too different dates for the creel murders. March 21st and March 25th (if not check out @aemiron-main's posts about it). So if we do the Math here and consider that the victim's were cursed in a day's interval each we have the following situation.

In the timeline we get presented by following the Date from the first episode (March 23rd when the Hawkins gang breaks into the school) we have the following situation:

March 17th -> Chrissy gets cursed

March 18th -> Fred gets cursed

March 19th -> Max gets cursed

March 20th -> Victim no 4 gets cursed

March 21st -> Chrissy dies

March 22nd -> Fred dies

March 23rd -> Max dies

March 24th -> Victim no 4 dies

March 25th -> Anniversary of the creel murders

So if we now go back to the note from Ms Kelley and do the Math again but starting from March 13th we have the following situation:

March 13th -> Chrissy gets cursed

March 14th -> Fred gets cursed

March 15th -> Max gets cursed

March 16th -> Victim no 4 gets cursed

March 17th -> Chrissy dies

March 18th -> Fred dies

March 19th -> Max dies

March 20th-> Victim no 4 dies

March 21st -> Anniversary of the creel murders

Coincidence? I think not.

[bylerschmyler]

So I wanted to look something up for a reblog and watched the scene where Max explains to Dustin what happened with Chrissy and Eddie and the lights and I saw this:

See the clock to the right? It's not in focus and Netflix doesn't want to give me HD Screenshot material but you can see that it's almost 10 o'clock.

So canonically Vecna killed Chrissy less than 9 hours before Mike's plane was departing. (Potentially the next bigger city with an airport is 30-60 minutes away because I doubt Hawkins has an airport, so it would more like 8 or 7 hours before Mike had to leave his house).

He wasn't using Mike as tool or waited for him to be gone. He killed Chrissy in close proximity to someone who knows about the UD and the flickering lights less than 9 hours before Mike was gone.

There is no way Henry would jeopardize his plan like this