#western discourse

[lapismaid]

i love language and i love this term so much

the source is here, and the original JPN post is here

it's a very good post about the author, a Japanese artist, dealing with harassment from western antis over OMORI fanart, and learning about "proship" discourse, written as an informative piece for others to learn from, and as a warning of how to deal with potential harassers

it also sometimes hits raw as fuck like here

[sammroo167]

I think scientists are operating in an environment where they are oblivious to how colonial culture is distorting their method of enquiry. Paulette Steeves, a First Nations American archaeologist, is battling the same preconceptions in her country. Establishment archaeologists are determined to believe that First Nations people arrived in America no earlier than 9000 years ago. They work on the accessibility of the Bering Strait land bridge at that time, despite the fact that sites with human occupation ages of 20,000 years and older are turning up in bork North and South America.

Scientists and First Nations people who accept these ages are ridiculed. Their careers are lighted and they are hounded whenever they speak about these ideas. Steeves says:

Scholars working as handmaidens of colonizing nation-states often created indigenous peoples as recent migrants from the Eastern hemisphere who were present for a short time before they mysteriously disappeared or became extinct. They have created scenarios where contemporary Indigenous people's links to ancestors and lands are suspicious or non-existent.

This is why Aboriginal people are suspicious of adherence to low estimates of First Nations occupation, economy and population. Even scientists can be subject to the powerful forces of colonial determinism.

-Bruce Pascoe, Big Sky, When the Emu Left the Earth, 2026

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

how can I know a country is western? Mason Koh from Quora mentioned Japan & S Korea as Western Countries and I'm confused. Others said Brazil & Chile

Hello, anon. Opinions are divided on that front, we’ve had a big debate over that here at FHPOC a few months ago. You can find all of it in the #western discourse tag. That should answer in regards to Brazil, Chile and all of Latin America (which is part of the “western world” as per how it is taught in most parts of Latam). 

Europe and the US seem to have a pretty convenient definition of the West that leaves out a big part of the world that was also influenced/colonised by Europeans and that is, thus, part of the Western World - that part, conveniently, is exclusively from the global south (aka “the thirld world”, an outdated term that is also used intercheangably with “underdeveloped countries”, but that originally meant “the part of the world that took no clear side on the Cold War”). Whether Japan and South Korea are part of it, you’d have to ask them, for the same reason that you’d have to ask latines about Brazil and Chile. However, to my knowledge the answer is “no, they are not western”. ~mod ara

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

Just for clarification, when I talked about rural parts of Latam, I wasn't referring to being poor or not, or how developed a country is. I am talking about the difference in culture. The influence, and existence of native customs and traditions is much more prevalent in some of the rural parts of Latam.

@ anon

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

different anon but third world is also defined as countries that have been exploited by 'first world' countries.

as a matter of fact, the first uses of first world and third world were during the cold war - the capitalist allies called themselves “first world”, the communists “second world” and those who didn’t take any part in the conflict were called “third world.” (source) The cold war’s been over for years. Those terms are out of date, and their current use is classist. 

That’s why I’m reluctant to use them and prefer others such as “developing countries” and “economies in transition” (though some people consider them to be somewhat classist, those are the words the UN uses), or, my personal favorites, “global south” and “global north.”

Mod Ara

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

honestly tho. the idea that latam isnt western is rooted in subtle racism. no matter how poor or disadvantaged a village is, it is still the west. we have brown kids living in extreme poverty in the us on reservations. but no one would point to those places and be like "see this cant be the west look they're suffering" and its just because the us is mostly white. the west is run by white people but occupied by people of color. time some of these anons just deal with it.

What can I say, I agree. I’m not going to define other people’s lives but hey, in my experience you’re right. ~ mod ara

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

Guys I'm making the "latam is western" post and asking around to different ppl their onions and everyone i talk to keeps looking at me like "this bitch passed high school, how!?" (or in my dad's case literally telling me that lmfao), like, everyone considers latam as part of the west and they find questioning it as the most unexpected, ridiculous thing. (And i didnt ask just argentinians, though im not gonna use the "my peruvian friend said so" 'cause i know its not valid).

The point: were the ppl saying that, no, latam is not western, a. non latinxs or b. diasporic? (born and raised outside latam) 'cause im feeling really silly with this and i wanna punch some gringx authors on the throat. ~mod ara

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

Can I give my two cents on the discussion of wether LatAm is part of the western world or not? The way I feel about it (I'm Brazilian) is that we are part of it but at the same time I constantly feel excluded from what in my mind would the "whole experience of being part of the western world". It's a feeling of incompletude that separates our experience from that "complete experience" which is found somewhere else and is constantly out of our reach.

Yesss agreed!!! Imho that’s due to North/south power dynamics (or how the first world sees the third world) ~ mod ara