Team Daenerys Brasil @teamdaenerysbrasil - Tumblr Blog

I really didn't get to like acosaf, in fact, what I liked most about the book was the political part and how these things can evolve in the next volumes. Az's pov was brilliant to make us look forward to the continuation. I don't like Nesta, and maybe that has conditioned the way I looked at this book. She particularly irritates me, so I considered her healing process necessary, but not enough to make me like her. I stared at this book expecting a conversation between her and Feyre, a verbal apology for the years of abuse she offered her sister, unfortunately it didn't.

No, and don't take it the wrong way, but I found the whole scene that she saves Feyre lazy from a writing standpoint. How many more times will we need to see Feyre or Rhysand having to face death in order to have a plot? Why can't sjm think of other alternatives for writing the climaxes of her books? The whole pregnancy plot was unnecessary and didn't need to be here. I didn't feel that Nesta loved Feyre until the last pages of the book.

She just didn't care and went to have sex with Cassian after finding out that her sister could die if a cure was not found. She spent most of her time in a library and never tried to look for or ask anyone who she could help. She never thought about how her sister was or how she could be feeling. She just remembered that Feyre could die in childbirth to injure Feyre and the IC. What the fuck is this writing when we know she would have set the world on fire and acted differently if she went to Elain or any of her friends in Feyre's place? So in the end Feyre needs to DIE for Nesta to finally understand how she feels? This is ridiculous.

Ridiculous because we don't see Nesta's love for Feyre emerging in her thoughts. There is no progression and real concern about this until the end. Also, if I'm going to take into account everything that was written before, why should I be thrilled with Nesta saving Feyre when Feyre has done this for her all her life? Feyre always did his best to save his family, including his childhood, body, life and sanity! I know she reflects on Tamlin, but seriously did you need five books to realize that Tamlin is unforgivable for hurting Feyre?

Nesta gave incredible powers, all right, but they were so poorly developed that the character just didn't care if she had them or not. Why should I see something like that as a sacrifice? We sacrifice things that are valuable to us and that we will be sad to lose, but worthwhile to save someone we love. A real sacrifice: Rhys giving his all, giving up Feyre and her powers to fix the cauldron.

And yes, it shows that she was more interested in saving Feyre than in maintaining those powers, that she is not an ambitious person, but no one was saying that she was either. No one was saying that she prioritized her powers more than anything or that they were an important part of her trajectory. We know Nesta without these powers. They arouse our curiosity, but I believe that nothing more

Although I don't like Nesta, this is not a comment to hate her, but to express my total disappointment with sjm.

This solution seemed much more like a lazy alternative that sjm found to make Nesta lose some of his powers. Powers that the author did not seem willing to develop or simply did not know what to do with them. At the same time she took away from us the possibility of seeing a real conversation between Feyre and Nesta that many of us have been waiting for years. This is very disappointing and that's what made me dislike this book. Feel how Sarah was manipulating this book to deliver a lazy (and repeated) solution to one of the biggest conflicts of overcoming. So suddenly we have to be grateful to Nesta and acknowledge her arc of redemption just because she saved Feyre? Is that what redeems it? Please...

If there are errors in understanding my writing, I beg your pardon, English is not my mother tongue.

ladyaryawolf

People love to claim that Daenerys is mad, because she set the Masters of Yunkai and Meereen on fire, and later on the TV Show(that is not canonic in the books, thanks God, they ruined her in the last two seasons), to the Lannister Army and then King's Landing. (completly ooc the last One)

The whole people anti-dany comes with the same discourse: “This is a war crime. It is wrong to set people on fire. She is mad. Don’t you see what she is doing?”

Yeah. It is wrong set people on fire.

But why is always Dany that have to be called mad?

People don’t call Jon or Tyrion mad when they have done the exactly same thing? I believe that Jon is much more harsh when it comes to war. Much more than Dany ever was. I dare to say if he had a dragon, he would have done much, much worse to his enemies already. Don’t believe me? Read the books. You will understand from where I came from, because the show!Jon is not book!Jon. Show!Jon is like an innocent puppy close of his book counterpart.

Do you know something that is also wrong but you guys close your eyes? Feeding the dogs with a living person. Of course, this just happend in the show, but why you guys don’t come saying: Uh, Sansa is mad, look what she did.

Wait, but you don’t, do you? Because occording to you all “He was his enemy, he abused her, and he raped her.”

Do you think they would just kick her out of the city and everything would be okay?

No, they would rape her, humiliate her and then put her head on a spike. They would not just be like, “get out of here”. It is not a school fight, it is a war. You guys have to put it in your heads. A war where there is no Geneva Convention and no United Nations to help seeking a diplomatic solution.

Double standard much?

When it comes to comparing Dany to men, then? Sexism? Misoginy?

“Oh, but Sansa didn’t do it in the books.” No, in the books she is currectly helping poisoning an innocent child, so she can marry the next heir and become Lady of the Eyrie.

“Oh, but Dany conquered those cities and changed their culture and fucked their economy.”

First: She didn’t change the culture. She respected as long as there were no enslavement involved. She tried to please the Meereen lords, she studied their history, used their clothes.

Second: all the cities she conquered had the main “economy sustent” from slaves. Slave market. Do you support it?

If you had dragons, and an army, would you just look at them: Children, women and men treated as objects, treated like animals. Would you just turn your back, even knowing you could have done something to help? Or would you try to help?

Dany tried to help. She could just have burned the master and go with all her dragons, a dothraki/unsullied army and sail to Westeros, since according to most of you, she just wants to be Queen.

But she didn’t do it. She stayed and fought.

Jorah Mormont: Taking this city will not bring you any closer to Westeros or the Iron Throne.

Daenerys Targaryen: How many slaves are there in Yunkai?

Jorah Mormont: 200,000, if not more.

Daenerys Targaryen: Then we have 200,000 reasons to take the city.

This seems power hungry to you? Just to complement.

Do you know what it is like to be sold, squire? I do. My brother sold me to Khal Drogo for the promise of a golden crown. Well, Drogo crowned him in gold, though not as he had wished, and I… my sun-and-stars made a queen of me, but if he had been a different man, it might have been much otherwise. Do you think I have forgotten how it felt to be afraid?

She is not trying to change Yunkai, Meereen and Slaver’s bay so she can be queen. She is not doing this for power. She is not doing it for some selfish reason, she is doing it because she knows how is to be a slave, she knows what is to feel powerless. How it is to be objetified. And what else? She doesn’t want the others to feel the same. She doesn’t want others to feel like simple objects. Everything she has done in Slaver’s Bay was for selfless reasons. She is not doing it for herself. She is doing it for them, to rescue those people and the only way she believes that is possible changing the system is crowning herself Queen.

Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can’t protect themselves?

This quote is so strong.

She doesn’t believe that Queen is just birthright, no, she believes that a Queen, a leader, has to put their people in first place. It is not about you and your crown, it is about the powerless, the poor, the children and the women. It is about protecting her people.

Also, leadership is not all flowers and glitter. She is fighting a war and when you are a leader, a King or a Queen, you have to make difficult decisions. It comes really close of Maquiavel principles “The Prince” and is really good to read it by Dany’s point of view. Her conflict.

It is such a long way. I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl.

Dany is not even 18. She is a child trying to help the others. Her actions are not out of madness. They are out of a selfless naivety and she is facing the consequences bravely.

They are not strong, she told herself, so I must be their strengh.

Bônus: Tyrion agrees with me.

[...]this Mother of Dragons, this Breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer.

Bye!💕✨

brideoffires-deactivated2023042

“Dragons plant no trees” is not the defining quote for Dany, firstly because an illness-ridden Daenerys experiencing hallucinations while being dehydrated and hungry is not thinking clearly, and secondly because she’s already proven this mentality wrong. She was planting grasses in Vaes Tolorro, a desolate city of bones. She plants olive trees in Meereen. She’s referred to as a little queen and disparaged for her attempts at peace in Meereen which is framed through her planting of olive trees. So if this was meant to be the one scene that defines Daenerys Targaryen, it wouldn’t have been preemptively disproven by the narrative. “Dragons plant no trees” is a representation of a metaphoric rebirth, this time one that will be accompanied by Daenerys using non-revolutionary violence in TWOW, but given that Daenerys has already proven it wrong once, she’ll prove it wrong again later on.

There are many defining moments in Dany’s arc so it’s hard to pick a scene or a quote that truly defines who she is. A character as rich and complicated as Daenerys is difficult to boil down to just one scene or quote, especially because she has so many dualities. But if I had to choose just one quote that encompasses who she is, it would be this:

“To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.” (Daenerys III, ACOK)

Some people make the mistake of talking about Dany’s dark turn as if it’s a surprise that GRRM will spring on us. It’s not. GRRM had told the reader that Dany will go dark pretty early on, at least all the way back to the second novel. Through Quaithe, GRRM makes several things clear: that her journey is winding, complex, non-linear, dangerous, and riddled with frustrating challenges; that she has dualities; and that, yes, there will be a moment in her life where she reaches the lowest point possible, and she will not be able to go back to the light until she reaches that point. Hence, if “dragons plant no trees”, was really meant to be the defining moment of her arc and her characterization, then Quaithe’s prophecies are wasted and meaningless. GRRM might as well have not written them.

Not to mention that GRRM hits us over the head with a very lovely and concise summary of Dany’s character and her dualities through Tyrion’s POV chapters in ADWD.

It’s never been a gotcha moment that Dany will “go dark”. This is one thing I’ve never understood about the conversations people have about Dany X ADWD. We know from Dany’s ACOK arc and Quaithe’s prophecies that there is a time in her life where she will go dark and reach a very low point, and that it will be impossible for her to fulfill her hero’s destiny without it. We know from Tyrion’s speeches and observations in ADWD that she’s a sacker of cities and a savior at the same time. If “dragons plant no trees” was meant to be a “subversive” moment in which GRRM is telling us that “Dany is the hero in her own story but the villain for everyone else”, then he would not have precedent for “dragons plant no trees” by writing “to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow” two books earlier, or having the same viewpoint character referring to her at one point as “Aegon the Conqueror with teats/sacker of cities” AND “above all a rescuer”.

Narratively speaking, in order for a heroic character to have a dark turn, that dark turn has to actually be set up, not just foreshadowed. For good writers, at least, the character can’t just snap and turn dark (which is how a lot of people speak about Dany’s “foreshadowed” dark turn). The problem inherent in this thinking is that people believe “dragons plant no trees” is what foreshadows Dany’s dark turn. It doesn’t; her dark turn was foreshadowed and already foretold by Quaithe in the second novel. “Dragons plant no trees” is simply the beginning of this foreshadowed dark turn. The foreshadowing already happened; “dragons plant no trees” is the beginning of this dark turn.

With Tyrion, for example, we see that he is already going through his dark turn throughout ADWD. It was set up for him early on, he goes through an immense betrayal that catalyzes the dark turn, and he’s experiencing the stages of that dark turn in ADWD through his darkly cynical thoughts and his violent actions. ADWD is the 5th book in the series, and I don’t think Tyrion has reached his lowest point yet. Similarly, it was necessary for Dany to culminate in reaching the beginning of her dark turn at the end of the 5th book, because we the reader already know she’ll go darker before she fulfills her role as a hero in the great war. Like Tyrion in ADWD, we will see Dany doing some awful things in TWOW. She’ll probably reach her lowest point then as well.

But it’s not just Dany. Bran’s dark turn was also set up early on, from AGOT itself. Jon and Arya’s dark turns were also set up early on. Jon and Arya have not gone through their dark turns yet; though, as many have pointed out, dying and being resurrected is a pretty good way to initiate someone’s dark turn. We know how Lady Stoneheart turned out after being resurrected. While he won’t be the same as Lady Stoneheart, Jon was brutally murdered due to betrayal as well, and it’s most likely that his soul is housed in Ghost, a direwolf, a feral creature who is capable of committing immense carnage. Jon, Bran, and Arya have not had their dark turns yet, while Dany is right on the verge of beginning hers, and Tyrion is already experiencing his; but the set up for all five of their dark turns was there from the beginning of the series. George didn’t keep it a secret, he told us that the heroes have dark sides to them that will be fully fleshed out as their arcs develop, and that their struggles against their internal demons are part of one of the running themes in this series (the human heart in conflict with itself).

“Dragons plant no trees” is not the defining quality of Daenerys Targaryen. It is her realization that peace is not an option with men who’ve built cities off the blood and deaths of enslaved people, and it’s also a mentality that will facilitate her use of non-revolutionary violence at her lowest moment. But the point is that Daenerys will have to remember that dragons do indeed plant trees, that she already planted trees and saw them grow, that one of her earliest memories is of a house with a red door and a lemon tree (a memory that she is always reaching toward, always striving for), that she is a Queen who cares and who saves people, that she is above all a rescuer.

brideoffires-deactivated2023042

@sharisfootly wrote a fantastic post detailing all the ways Jorah Mormont deceives, gaslights, grooms, sexualizes, and infantilizes Daenerys. In it, he also points out how Jorah’s advice to Dany often conflicts with her actual political ideology and goals, especially when it comes to slavery. Jorah encourages her to leave the freedmen to her peril, and she doesn’t. Jorah tells her to overlook the plight of the Lhazareen women, and she doesn’t. Jorah claims that freedmen dying of hunger and sickness is an unavoidable cost of war, but she still strives to help them and care for them. At all turns, Dany has resisted Jorah’s “counsel” because Dany and Jorah are fundamentally different people: and so the fact that Dany, who is the embodiment of the anti-slavery perspective of this series, conflicts with Jorah, who sold men into slavery, is very significant to me.

In her illness-borne hallucinations in Dany X ADWD, it’s not Dany saying “dragons plant no trees”, it’s Jorah who says it. Yes, it is significant that Dany echoes his sentiment by whispering “fire and blood” back to him. We’ve all acknowledged hundreds of times that this means Dany has re-embraced her House’s words, this means she’s going to use a lot more violence in TWOW, and this means she’s going to embrace a mentality that enables her to commit non-justified, non-revolutionary violence. Again, I’ve accepted that, because she’s not the only character who’s going to do awful things in TWOW; the rest of the key five most certainly will as well, and I do not think “a dark turn” is exclusive to the key five.

My point is, though, that Dany has thus far rejected Jorah’s pro-slaver, apathetic, complicit ideology. So the point, in my opinion, of “dragons plant no trees” is to highlight that it’s not who Dany is meant to be, but it’s going to take her reaching her lowest point to remember that she’s already proven this wrong, that she’s not the one who said dragons plant no trees, that someone like Jorah isn’t an authority on who she is. Contrast “dragons plant no trees” with “to touch the light you must pass under the shadow”. Quaithe has spent less time with Daenerys but I’d argue that she knows her better than Jorah does. Quaithe did not say that Dany’s destiny is to end “under the shadow”, but that she will touch the light ONCE she passes under the shadow, whereas hallucination!Jorah characterizes Dany’s sole destiny as “dragons plant no trees”.

If “dragons plant no trees” was the be-all end-all of Daenerys Targaryen, someone as different from her, as diametrically opposed to her, and as untrustworthy as Jorah Mormont would not have been the one saying it. Hallucination!Jorah is a plot prop meant to bring out and emphasize Dany’s rebirth in Dany X ADWD. It could’ve easily been someone else, someone more trustworthy, someone who knows who Dany truly is, someone who hasn’t tried to groom her to fit their image the way Jorah has. Hell, it could’ve been Quaithe who said that, but it wasn’t. Quaithe, who has never tried to groom or manipulate or isolate or deceive Daenerys, said “to touch the light you must pass under the shadow”, whereas Jorah, who has condescended to, lied to, betrayed, and assaulted Daenerys, claimed that her destiny is “dragons plant no trees”. He is not a reliable authority on Dany, which means his words are not an accurate summary of who she is, and they are not the final word on who she will become.

The challenge that Daenerys will face and (hopefully, most likely) overcome in TWOW is to remember that dragons do plant trees, that she has planted trees and seen them grow, that Jorah Mormont of all people is not the person who knows her best or has her best interests at heart. She will have to prove him wrong and that mentality wrong and remember and reclaim her passion and love for humanity. Not only that, but I believe the central issue of Dany’s arc, which is how justice undergirds peace and war, and when war is necessary, is part and parcel to “dragons plant no trees”. Daenerys will come to an understanding of when to use violence, whom to use it for, and when violence goes too far and treads over the line of becoming unjustified and harmful to innocents. As she has realized at the end of ADWD, a peace built upon the bodies of children is no real peace, and thus war is necessary to take it out and to rebuild a better world. But in TWOW, after committing violence that is neither revolutionary nor justifiable, she’ll have to realize the value of peace as well. This is the primary issue Daenerys has been facing all along, and it’ll be part of her TWOW arc as well. This is why I believe that when she remembers that dragons DO plant trees and see them grow, it’ll be what will turn her attention North, to the threat of the Others, a battle that will amalgamate the necessity of war and violence to create peace and to create a dream of spring. Essentially, it’s about balancing justified, necessary violence with peace and reconstruction.

soulsofcinder-deactivated202502

oops i drew dany again

cecimonster

Today’s warm up property exploration is #daenerystargaryen of #got7

—– #got #gameofthrones #dragon #illustration #illustrationaday #daenerys #targaryen #characterdesign

cosmiart

“Horses… the boy was mad for horses. Lady Dustin will tell you.”

gracerocky

New Daenerys still from Season 4 [x]

godsfavoritsacrificallamb

ASOIAF as Greek myths 3/? Daenerys as Queen Dido

The exiled Queen

venicepearl

Daenerys Targaryen by ~AimeeCosette

alicenthightower

“Mother of Dragons” by Chris Clark

doomcheese

Tonight I was good.. I worked on commissiony stuff while watching GoT (again :B). But then The Apprentice came on :| So I drew this.

Fascinated by Emilia Clarke’s lips. And eyebrows.

Mostly lips.

And hair (..wig..whatever)

:|

tidustargaryen

Khaleesi by suzzannnn

crystalkung

Daenerys for character design challenge this month.

joleenalice-deactivated20240215

Aurora as Daenerys Targaryen.

hollywoodwhispers

Daenerys by ~KaylaWoodside

beautifulbookland

Unpopular opinion: i hate Nesta and Elain Like I get that they went through shit But you don't just let your 14 YEAR OLD SISTER go into the woods and keep you alive And then you come back and bitch at her(this one is just for Nesta) and make her life hell when the girl gave you an underserved second chance But tell me if you think different! I want to hear a different opinion that makes sense instead of "it's ok because they're sisters" Sorry about the rant lmao

My psychologist once told me that, in abusive relationships, the abuser isn’t just awful all the time; a lot of the time they can be awful, yeah, but they can also be incredibly nice, in order to keep the victim under their spell, to keep them tagging along in the hopes of the abuser showing that kindness again.

Nesta sort of reminds me of that. I’m not saying she’s quite as bad as that, I’m not saying that she doesn’t care about Feyre in her own way, but I can see Nesta in that description.

I’ve literally read so many pro-Nesta rants in the hopes of changing my mind but none of them have changed my feelings for her. Yeah, she has her good moments and her moments of vulnerability, but they’re too few and far between for me. She spent literal years letting her family starve, letting her youngest sister go out into dangerous woods - alone - to provide for them. And then the money that Feyre made for them? Never mind the fact that Feyre’s own clothes were falling apart at the seams, Nesta and Elain spend that money on themselves.

I also hate the fact that some people dismiss Nesta’s abuse simply because they’re siblings, because honestly? It’s dangerous. It’s not a simple case of sibling bickering; Nesta notes Feyre’s weaknesses, what she can say that will affect Feyre, and wields those weapons to hurt her.

And, like I said in my other ask, in acotar, Feyre has an internal critical voice - Nesta’s voice. Because all the digs and put downs got to her. I mean, Nesta literally compares Feyre to an animal rutting around in a barn.

I can see why some people like the complexity of her character, but I have literally no idea why she’s constantly put up on a pedestal. Yeah, she’s been through her own shit, but that doesn’t make her treating other people like total shit okay. You can’t just dismiss it like that.

As for Elain…Elain doesn’t really make me feel much, to be honest. I hated her initially, but I do like her now. Because whereas Nesta chooses to be mean to those around her all the time, Elain’s fault is that she’s naive, and she doesn’t go out of her way to hurt people.

(Haha you’re apologising for ranting? I just wrote you a full blown novel)

(This is just my personal opinion so pls don’t send me hate thank you)

a-court-of-fiction

OMG FINALLY SOMEONE HAS SPOKEN. TBH I DON’T REALLY LIKE ELAINE EITHER BC OF HOW SHE JUMPED AWAY FEYRE WHEN FEYRE WOULD COME BACK FROM THE WOODS AND HAD DIRT ON HER. ELAINE DIDN’T DO ANYTHING EITHER. I DON’T EVEN SHIP NESSIAN OR ELAINE W AZRIEL. I LIKE HER W LUCIEN.