The Secret Garden

undiagnosed did sys ❀ bodily adult ❀ collective they/them

[fannyirltrust]

could anti endos please kindly and respectfully explain to me why they're against endos?? and no "its impossible" or stuff like that I want explanations

I'll remove any rude comments btw

[th3-secretgarden]

before i start with my full response, i want to link this reblog to a deactivated blog post that did research on the origin of endogenic as a label and community. as it tends to shed a light on why the term came to be and inherently how that community has harmed those with cdds.

the rest of my statement is more so personal & due to looking through the research & evidence presented.

i used to identify as endogenic and it was one of the more unhealthy things i did. it worsened my dissociation at a time where i was already struggling with it. due to refusing to acknowledge my trauma i thought the only way i could explain my symptoms of amnesia and people remembering me as so starkly different was to claim systemhood.

i was taken advantage of by that community, something i will not go into full detail of because i would rather not relive it. but the behavior exhibited while i was in that community honestly kind of shocked me. the way they talked about those with cdds who found the movement harmful was inherently toxic. implying they were lucky to not fight for their identities (inherently incorrect as many still fight to find therapists who either believe in cdds OR aren’t misinformed on the disorders) as well as how they came up with their own insults towards traumatized folks for having disagreements with the movement. (ex. traumascum & sysmed which are inherently transphobic as it implies a disorders responses such as being a system are equivalent to the discourse that used to surround trans people)

as evident by my current stance i did eventually leave. any research or evidence endos often present to argue their existence often either isn’t the case when you read the full article or is simply found to not be reliably researched. there is no ethical way to test the formation of a system and so far many articles only acknowledge the sense of non-disordered plurality as

1. inherently separate from disordered plurality including their terms

2. something spiritual in cultures that are often closed and being taken by those who are not in said culture

non disordered plurality recognized as a spiritual possibility only because of the fact doctors do not want to diagnose something that they are not allowed to. there are many small cultures that seem to view plurality as a spiritual experience or phenomenon. something i think is fine as in those cases even those participating do not call themselves systems or the like. they have special terminology depending on the culture they are a part of.

overall, people with cdds and impressionable teenagers have been inherently harmed by those claiming to be endo. which doesn’t even touch on all the racism that endogenics often leave rampant in their community. (ex. tulpamancy being stolen and bastardized from a no longer practiced and closed buddhist practice, term endophobia being used for a while which is used for people who are racist to their own group, etc)

+ a nitpick. they used endo as their shorthand which as someone with possible endometriosis makes it often times hard to find posts talking about their experience due to many with the condition having shortened it to endo. so many of their terms are stolen from groups who have expressed their displeasure with having such terms used or groups who most of their time have no idea their terms have been stolen.

i apologize if any of this was hard to read, i do not have my glasses on & have a condition that does effect my ability to communicate clearly.

[giantsin-thesky]

possible hot take, i don't believe system apps (pluralspace, berrytree, florality, etc) should have social areas in the official servers. period. running a support server for an app is already such a hassle, not to mention the work that takes to actually get the app functional and do all updates people ask for.

the social aspect of the servers always end badly. we saw it with octocon, we're seeing it with berrytree, we'll likely see it with every other app. the servers grow too much for it to be sustainable for unpaid moderators who have other things going on.

if you ask me, all the social channels – maybe with exception of the inspiration channels – would be deleted completely.

[partlans]

The no you/your movement has gotten out of control.

It's the new "woke" thing to get upset about. It's in its early days of existing as a somewhat mainstream thing on the internet and that comes with a lot of issues.

People who support the no you/your movement haven't agreed on a universal truth yet and contradict eachother when explaining it's existence to people apprehensive about it.

Appropriate reaction/responses to when this boundary is broken has not been calculated yet

Since being introduced to this concept I've:

- Watched people be harassed over asking in good faith why this exists.

- Watched people with limited words or understanding of words be harassed for using you/your.

- Watched people lash out at people for slipping up.

- Watched people focus more on correcting people on these boundaries rather than actually engage in conversations.

- Watched people explain their preferences in a way that makes them not want to be perceived as a person, which is something I'm not comfortable engaging in and never have been.

- Watched people use no you/your to further racist stereotypes (such as Japanese folks talking in third person)

I'm all for changes in the English language however I do NOT support harassment, dehumanisation or racism and never will. At this time, I will not be supporting no you/your.

This means I will avoid interacting with you if this is a boundary of yours, and I will be sticking to interacting in spaces that do not push this issue. If no you/your is so important to you, you can find places where that's respected; it just won't be here.

[th3-secretgarden]

im not sure if u noticed but u used the wrong pronouns for that blog

I honestly didn’t even check the blog as I was running on about 4 hours of sleep and was already quite terrified of the risk of harassment. i apologize for it though.

so ig this is my firm stance until i make a pinned. do not reblog me on misia based or this-is blogs & blocklists. i am not mentally fit to handle any negative attention it will bring in my current situation.

[th3-secretgarden]

decided to make my own attempt a post addressing my personal issues with berrytree and such. not like i really care if people wanna argue.

the you/your boundary

i have opinions on this. particularly as someone who has had this conversation with multiple individuals of varying backgrounds to see if i could have this made understandable to me. inherently this boundary is alienating to a large portion of folks.

if someone already struggles with english they may not be able to easily subtract you/your from their vocabulary. whether this be from english being a second language or from a language learning disorder. (i am somewhat part of both these communities.) the amount of typos that i make in almost every post is embarrassing as an adult. so making me relearn an entire way of speech is a huge task, one i have chose not to put myself through the stress of. this has indeed caused me to block many individuals in the support and inspo server. there are some mods that aren't blocked if they must reach me, but overall i have taken the move for my own mental health.

2. the racism announcement & it's handling

as seen in my previous post/technically reblog. the original response was honestly, not at all addressing the issue. the document was eh better. but i still don't think it felt much like an apology. the entire thing came off more as an explanation and somewhat addressing things unrelated to the problem.

though i don't enjoy making this public information, it feels important to have my stance clear. i am a mixed system. i have been mistaken for other cultures and races and even in the technical umbrella of my group i am seen as a dirtier version. i refuse to specify what groups i am mixed with due to not wishing racism when my family had to shed their actual name just to avoid it.

i avoided the social areas of the server personally, because from past experiences servers either over moderate or under moderate racism. and i can vouch, social situations were the ones i saw moderated almost 99% of the time. i agree nobody should be forced to share their ethnicity or race, it does lead to systems of color getting shut down. i have seen it. but i have also seen systems of color shut each other down. which is why i am not shocked a staff member came out anonymously as being a BIPOC member of the team.

however, i do not think that should have been brought up in the response document. i think if the team was planning to make a response to any assumptions or allegations perhaps the team being perceived as possibly being all white should have been placed in that document as well. but that is my opinion as someone who has had to deal with situations like this in the past.

3. the second "response"

once again it can be seen in the last post i spoke about it. i think noah's behavior has been highly unprofessional. this is coming from someone in the same age range as him. that announcement should have been posted when emotions were not as high.

first and formost. the beginning. reading through every post about your announcement is not healthy. at least not for a single individual. i personally think the team should have stuck to listening to the people willing to go to them about it.

tiktok and twitter are inherently unhealthy communities, i speak from being on both for quite a while. obviously nobody should be harassed, threatened, or doxxed. those are horrible things that i personally have also experienced, even if unsuccessfully. but those two platforms are especially known for being horrid and i think they should be avoided if possible in the future.

as stated in my last section. they claim to apologize multiple times, but many of those apologies were either followed or surrounded by walls of text making them seem minor in regards to an explanation of why it happened. i wouldn't be shocked if the apologies were easy to miss. the doc did not feel very accessible as a person with difficulty reading and who does not have access to a screen reader.

in the end you are running a support server and i personally agree with the sentiment that the team would benefit from removing it. there are plenty of other servers for system, but a support server should be focused on that. support.

i do not want the team or anyone to take this as me tearing into the team or noah. but i want to address that i do think the team has mishandled the situation and should have taken more time to think before posting some of the things they posted.

4. a reblog i noticed on the berrytree tumblr

this reblog has rubbed me extremely badly. i do not think the main account should be reblogging such a thing. if the team has faced harassment from people clearly following the announcement, why was it not taken into consideration that perhaps this user could be harassed for reblogging another individual's reblog from a blog where they have acknowleged that it was there place to speak about their grievances.

if you want to do it on a personal blog, i do not care. but on the official tumblr blog for your application? it makes it feel like the team does not care about other people's safety. this is the most recent and personally concerning action i think the team has made.

this behavior especially feels like having a personal gripe with a specific user and i personally hope the berrytree staff do take time to think about this all moving forward.

feel free to disagree with me in the replies (i may not be able to respond to some people as this is a side blog and i have blocked many folks on my main, so i apologize if that ends up being the case.) my ending statement is simply that i do hope the team grows from this and takes the time to think over this all properly.

[th3-secretgarden]

want to clarify, if the noyou-rmisia blog says anything about me blocking them. its bc i really dont appreciate them interacting on a post where i have clearly stated i am not in a state where i am capable of understanding the usage of such pronouns.

i spoke to native english speakers, non english speakers, white folks, poc folks, systems, and singlets. i truly did try to cover my bases. hell i even spoke to those off of online spaces.

when almost multiple groups, including the same groups they claim to be protecting with this agree that this is poorly thought out and does aliente many individuals.

i struggle with english despite it being my first language bc i was forced to stop learning and began relarning my family's main language multiple times in my life. if i can barely grasp tht, i am not shocked i struggle with other pronoun sets.

this /does/ alienate people. and personally i don't feel comfortable being put on one of those blogs. so if anyone could, i would appreciate asking them to remove their reblog.

[th3-secretgarden]

decided to make my own attempt a post addressing my personal issues with berrytree and such. not like i really care if people wanna argue.

the you/your boundary

i have opinions on this. particularly as someone who has had this conversation with multiple individuals of varying backgrounds to see if i could have this made understandable to me. inherently this boundary is alienating to a large portion of folks.

if someone already struggles with english they may not be able to easily subtract you/your from their vocabulary. whether this be from english being a second language or from a language learning disorder. (i am somewhat part of both these communities.) the amount of typos that i make in almost every post is embarrassing as an adult. so making me relearn an entire way of speech is a huge task, one i have chose not to put myself through the stress of. this has indeed caused me to block many individuals in the support and inspo server. there are some mods that aren't blocked if they must reach me, but overall i have taken the move for my own mental health.

2. the racism announcement & it's handling

as seen in my previous post/technically reblog. the original response was honestly, not at all addressing the issue. the document was eh better. but i still don't think it felt much like an apology. the entire thing came off more as an explanation and somewhat addressing things unrelated to the problem.

though i don't enjoy making this public information, it feels important to have my stance clear. i am a mixed system. i have been mistaken for other cultures and races and even in the technical umbrella of my group i am seen as a dirtier version. i refuse to specify what groups i am mixed with due to not wishing racism when my family had to shed their actual name just to avoid it.

i avoided the social areas of the server personally, because from past experiences servers either over moderate or under moderate racism. and i can vouch, social situations were the ones i saw moderated almost 99% of the time. i agree nobody should be forced to share their ethnicity or race, it does lead to systems of color getting shut down. i have seen it. but i have also seen systems of color shut each other down. which is why i am not shocked a staff member came out anonymously as being a BIPOC member of the team.

however, i do not think that should have been brought up in the response document. i think if the team was planning to make a response to any assumptions or allegations perhaps the team being perceived as possibly being all white should have been placed in that document as well. but that is my opinion as someone who has had to deal with situations like this in the past.

3. the second "response"

once again it can be seen in the last post i spoke about it. i think noah's behavior has been highly unprofessional. this is coming from someone in the same age range as him. that announcement should have been posted when emotions were not as high.

first and formost. the beginning. reading through every post about your announcement is not healthy. at least not for a single individual. i personally think the team should have stuck to listening to the people willing to go to them about it.

tiktok and twitter are inherently unhealthy communities, i speak from being on both for quite a while. obviously nobody should be harassed, threatened, or doxxed. those are horrible things that i personally have also experienced, even if unsuccessfully. but those two platforms are especially known for being horrid and i think they should be avoided if possible in the future.

as stated in my last section. they claim to apologize multiple times, but many of those apologies were either followed or surrounded by walls of text making them seem minor in regards to an explanation of why it happened. i wouldn't be shocked if the apologies were easy to miss. the doc did not feel very accessible as a person with difficulty reading and who does not have access to a screen reader.

in the end you are running a support server and i personally agree with the sentiment that the team would benefit from removing it. there are plenty of other servers for system, but a support server should be focused on that. support.

i do not want the team or anyone to take this as me tearing into the team or noah. but i want to address that i do think the team has mishandled the situation and should have taken more time to think before posting some of the things they posted.

4. a reblog i noticed on the berrytree tumblr

this reblog has rubbed me extremely badly. i do not think the main account should be reblogging such a thing. if the team has faced harassment from people clearly following the announcement, why was it not taken into consideration that perhaps this user could be harassed for reblogging another individual's reblog from a blog where they have acknowleged that it was there place to speak about their grievances.

if you want to do it on a personal blog, i do not care. but on the official tumblr blog for your application? it makes it feel like the team does not care about other people's safety. this is the most recent and personally concerning action i think the team has made.

this behavior especially feels like having a personal gripe with a specific user and i personally hope the berrytree staff do take time to think about this all moving forward.

feel free to disagree with me in the replies (i may not be able to respond to some people as this is a side blog and i have blocked many folks on my main, so i apologize if that ends up being the case.) my ending statement is simply that i do hope the team grows from this and takes the time to think over this all properly.

EDIT: i have removed the reblog feature due to the incident involving the blog that responded. i do not feel comfortable having this post reblogged after that. comments are fine for now but i have genuinely been quite harmed mentally by this. any asks or comments addressing it will be deleted for my own health.

[endo-lies]

Witnessing berry tree's owner have an insane meltdown st 9am was not on my bingo card but it probably should've been. This announcement is embarrassing at best, and insanely unprofessional at worst. You cannot freak out like that when people RIGHTFULLY poont out your apology was inadequate. And as the dev and runner of an app, you need to have an air of professionalism that the dev and the staff clearly dont have. Do better, but maybe don't do better with berry tree. @berrytree-co

Certainly curious to hear others thoughts, im certainly disappointed but also with how little bug fixes the app has gotten I've already sorta moved away from using it...

[th3-secretgarden]

i suppose i'll add my two cents on this but first and foremost. i do NOT support any harassment, threats, or doxxing the team received. the response to the harassment is unprofessional. i am not saying the team and noah aren't allowed to be upset, but announcements like these are inherently aggressive. hell, i genuinely hadn't seen any of this and the aggression of the announcement after fighting my health insurance again wasn't exactly? comforting? idk how to word it but it feels uncomfortable at the least.

i think the document was still quite not the response people needed. it feels like they are trying to appeal to all people, when the stance is. they were letting racism go unchecked while worrying about social boundaries. saying that people weren't pointing out racism completely disregards how often systems of color have had their voices shut down in these conversations. as one, i go as far as refusing to even specify what we are past mixed and stay out of conversations because very often our opinion is shut down bc of our mixed status.

i don't know if meltdown is the word i'd use here, but the aggression in the message is not a good look for a team that seemed to at least imply they were going to work on moderating the server to make it a safer space. this aggression and honestly? hostility? if that word fits here. doesn't make me feel any safer expressing my opinions on how things are handled.

implying that nobody is giving a chance to them seems incorrect from at least a perspective from tumblr in my experience. i would not be shocked if tiktok and twitter users were being harsh, but that is why i continue to insist that teams should stay away from those platforms if they're able because of how toxic they are already.

also the statement of saying how long they took to make the document feels kind of excuse-ish? i can take weeks or months to write a response, but that doesn't mean my response will be taken well. it just seemed very unneeded in a sense? clearly enough people still weren't quite happy with the response, and the aggressive tone (i know i keep bringing it up, but as a person who has helped run large servers it's a big flaw) will make it harder for people to bring it up.

i have seen some mention being comfortable bringing up their issues to the team, but that doesn't mean all systems are. after seeing this reaction, which feels impulsive, i wouldn't be shocked if people feel deterred from expressing their opinions on the announcement.

overall, the team just seems to be very unprofessional. i hope noah and the team steps back for a bit, even if it means a hiatus, as i think the whole looking at everyone's responses on social media clearly caused more harm than good. at least if that's how they're going to respond to it.

anyways, sorry if any of this doesn't make any sense. i am literally writing this at an early AM time.