Cryptid

[the17thmuse]

So. Messmer dabbles in archeology and isn't too far in sharing hobbies with Radahn and Rykard, except his area is in fire/Crucible incantations instead of gravity sorcery or death/magma hexes.

Apparently, he's been using Marika's research in Hornsent findings of Rauh to hide his own interest in smithscript (i.e. Impaler Spear). Meanwhile, his men pick Hornsent gaols and Jar Innards apart to treat them, and his Fire Knights help research how his kindling is rooted in Rauh, source of the Crucible, and their culture of sprites, smithing and golems.

Messmerflame has enough spirituality that his flames are alive, the very embers being basically fire sprites aka baby fire elementals or fire spirits.

Conclusion: Messmer creates baby fire spirits every time he summons his flames.

Which means Wego's necromancy does not work as intended because he's been stuffing fire sprites instead of resurrected souls into reanimated bodies.

Like. No wonder the old man feels lonely, he's been surrounding himself with babies incapable of adult conversation. (Please tell him to stop putting baby spirits in dead adult bodies. And furnace golems. And fire dogs.)

That said...there is a great irony that Marika and Godfrey left the Fire Giants near-extinct, then ordered Messmer to purge the Land of Shadows of the Hornsent.

And in the process of destroying settlements and ruins, Messmer propagated and brought the population of fire sprites to new heights since the fall of Rauh and Fire Giants. All by himself. (This man.)

So, Abyssal Serpents are Base Serpent Messmer's kids...

And fire sprites/messmer's embers are also Messmer's kids...?

He's been feeding baby fire sprites on a diet of Hornsent and more in the Land of Shadow

—are his entire goddamn army considered babysitters now.

Messmer, mother of (serpentine) fire sprites...confirmed?

[draken-rotzi]

I had a hard time deciding which pokemon to give him, thanks everyone for the suggestions! 🫶

Elden Eing x Pokemon pt. 6

Mohg | Morgott | Ansbach | Leda | Rogier

Closeups under the cut 🐍🔥

[ghostofashina]

godwyn had the best hugs.

it felt like home for marika every time he hugged her. it got funnier when he grew, his arms always swallowed her whole, making her laugh.

godfrey felt honored but it always ended up in a dispute about strength.

mohg and morgott had a special hug just for them, which they'd touch their forehead against godwyn's. they never stopped hugging like this.

ranni was hugged once. from behind. the first time she ever lost her posture.

malenia used to rest the head on his shoulder. it felt healing.

miquella lived inside his arms, hands attached to his neck. always giggling, blushing. he loved being picked up by him and only him.

messmer never liked hugs. godwyn hugged him anyways. he could always push him away with the snakes, but he never did. once, he lifted a hand to hold godwyn's back. it was the last time they hugged.

[drenched-in-sunlight]

Theory: Messmer's timeline and story will only make sense if you consider him Marika's beloved firstborn

Aka, welcome to my doomed Mother & Son presentation slide 🔥🫡

This is written with the assumption that readers are aware of the big reveal regarding Marika's past.

(spoilers for SoTE and long discussion from Messmer’s birth to his final moment)

edit to add this dialogue from Gideon:

EDIT 2: Messmer's helm description literally stated he accepted his fate. he was just brooding sitting in the dark minding his own business, & he'd have been fine for a long time more if the Tarnished hadn't sauntered in & triggered all of his insecurities at once.

hell, he's still maintaining the jar clinic, the Keep still shows signs of activities, his "suffering" is him not being able to see his mom. but it is what it is, he already accepted that. yet people still love to blame Marika while we are the one fucking his brain chemical up???

his bros are throwing a divine disco light party next to his house and he's like "i do not care 🫤 i do not see 😑". he doesn't even give a shit there would be a new God (as long as it's not his mom marrying someone he deems unfit). i think he'd even take up gardening while waiting for Marika to pick him up, no problem. why can't we just tell him his mom is imprisoned istg

EDIT 3: clarification on the mistranslation of Messmer's armor description

[blender2902]

MARIKA NEVER ABANDONED MESSMER! (IN DEFENCE OF MARIKA PART 2)

Well it would be more accurate to say that they were seeing each other regularly until the shattering. I know I am not the first person to say this but I have not seen anyone make a dedicated lore post establishing a solid timeline with proper evidence so, I shall be the one to do it. My goal is to prove that Marika had contact with Messmer until she shattered the Elden ring.

Let’s first establish a general timeline of the events that are going to be relevant-

We know from gaius’s remembrance and Rellana’s lore that Messmer’s crusade must have begun sometime after 2nd Liurnian wars. The crusade must have begun before Radagon became elden lord as he removed all colosseum practices in his era as per the ritual sword talisman description and in the lands of shadow we find the dueling shield which says that these practices somehow remained in the shadow realm.

Now, whether the crusade took place before or after Godfrey’s banishment is unclear. I have seen many claim that Messmer knows what a tarnished is so the crusade must have begun after his banishment but then you are assuming that Marika abandoned Messmer as soon as she sent him there. If you believe that the YOU ARE DEAD WRONG! Two item descriptions refute this theory completely-

Black Knight Andreas spirit ash-

Focus on the line I have underlined, ‘flight from the Erdtree’. This description is straight up saying that during the crusade Messmer did go back home but then he was chased away

Don’t try to argue that the flight was the beginning of the crusade as it was commemorated which means that the crusade had the support of the erdtree at its beginning.

This means that the flight must have happened after the crusade began.

To further solidify this, the stone tablets at the specimen storehouse and the queen’s bedchambers are the exact same-

This is not a case of reused assets because these tablets are found nowhere else in the base game to my knowledge. Messmer must have brought these to Marika by himself. This also disproves the assumption that Marika wanted Messmer to be forgotten, since if she really did want that, she would have destroyed those stone tablets as well. Why does Marika want these tablets? Well, the answer doesn’t really matter but my personal headcannon is that Messmer found out that the jar innards are still alive and he told Marika so she started doing research in an attempt to cure them but it seems she was unsuccessful. Anyhow, what matters is that Messmer did return to her.

Here is how the timeline looks like now-

So now we know that the crusade must have started around the time Godfrey was banished but we still don’t know when the Messmer was sealed in the lands of shadow. Thus, we must look at another piece of lore from the dlc, the death knights of Godwyn. From what I have seen most people just ignore this part of the dlc lore, which is a shame, because this fundamentally changes our understanding of the timeline. The death knight armour says-

“Cadaver Surrogate” means a substitute for the corpse itself. What is this substitute? It must be what these death knights are guarding.

We don’t see this face in any other catacombs both in the dlc and in the base game. We find one of these faces in stormveil castle. Rogier straight up calls that thing a corpse-

All hints point towards those faces being the “Cadaver Surrogate.” This leads me to believe that the knights did not get to the realm of shadow through some ‘deathroot bulshit’ and got to the realm of shadow using those faces because these knights went there to specifically search for these. If they were transported to them, then it would make no sense to say that they went to search for them. Now, let’s look at some interesting enemies we find in these catacombs.

These guys belong to Messmer’s army. The black knights are right behind the fire knights when it comes to position in the army so it doesn’t make much sense that they would be here without orders. The shield those little guys drop literally says they are loyal to Messmer which means he must have ordered them-

We can argue that these guys are here just to protect the spirit ashes of Andreas and Huw respectively but there is one detail that goes against that, this stake of Marika here which is right before the Death knight boss-

Who could have placed this here? It must have been Messmer’s soldiers as I do not think the death knights would carry these around. Therefore, this heavily implies that Messmer sent these guys here to protect the death knights. The fact that these guys only appear in death knight catacombs but do not in any other mini dungeon further proves that. Now comes the question, why would Messmer send these guys here? His mission is to purge the hornsent not to help the death knights out right? Well, the only way we can make sense of this jumble is if Marika was the one to order Messmer to guard these knights. Remember, after Godwyn’s death, Marika is through with the golden order and has lost all faith in it. The golden order fanatics that hunt those who live in death use fundamentalist incantations which were created by Radagon not Marika which implies the stigma against them was Radagon’s doing not Marika’s. Therefore, it is well within Marika’s character to help these death knights out and send them to the shadow realm. Whether she was the one who came up with the idea of the “Cadaver Surrogate” I am not sure but that does not matter. What matters is that Marika let the death knights go to the shadow realm to accomplish their mission and asked Messmer to protect them. She might have thought that the death knights could revive Godwyn but that is a discussion for another day.

Even if you want to argue that the death knights placed this here, that still implies that Marika sent these guys there which means the Lands of shadow was not sealed yet.

This means that Marika had contact with Messmer AFTER THE NIGHT OF THE BLACK KNIVES which means Messmer was sealed AFTER GODWYN’S DEATH.

Here is the finished timeline-

To clear up some confusion about the sealing of the shadow realm and the timeline-

The shadow realm had two things happen to it-

The shadow land was veiled (the place was hidden but traveling there was possible): During Marika’s ascension to godhood she veiled the lands BUT THERE WAS STILL A WAY TO TRAVEL BETWEEN THE LAND OF SHADOWS AND THE LANDS BETWEEN which likely only she could access. The veiling must have happened before Messmer’s crusade because in the story trailer we see that Messmer is assaulting Belurat when the lands of shadow is veiled. Why do I think the place was veiled at Marika’s ascension? It is heavily implied that the Scadutree is responsible for the veil and the Scadutree avatar’s remembrance says-

The Scadutree is called the shadow of the Erdtree which along with the line from the story trailer ‘gold arose and shadow too was born’ implies that when the erdtree was born so too was the scadutree.

2. The shadow lands were sealed (all forms of travel were cut off): This, as I have proven in this post, happened after the knight of the black knives.

Many people have this notion that Marika shattered the Elden ring immediately after Godwyn died but according to Rogier’s dialogue, there was a period of time between the shattering and the night of the black knives. Messmer was sealed during this time.

Now there are several justifiable reasons I could give to Marika for sealing Messmer away but there is one that is supported the most. Messmer was sealed because in one of his visits the base serpent revealed itself somehow which caused the people to turn on him. Fearing for Messmer’s life, especially after losing Godwyn, she sealed him in the shadow realm where he would be safe.

Here is the evidence pointing towards this-

Let’s look at Andreas’s description again

Look at the part I underlined in yellow, Andreas somehow learned of Messmer’s serpentine nature. This serpentine nature has to be the base serpent and not the winged serpents for 2 reasons- 1) the winged serpents are visible on messmer at all times and 2) the winged serpents are depicted on the serpent crest shield so they must have been common knowledge. This implies that the base serpent was somehow able to reveal itself despite Marika’s seal

2. The Erdtree society hated serpents even before the crusade as we learn from the duelist helm description-

These colosseums existed during Godfrey’s era, when Messmer was living at Leyndell, which implies Messmer was never too popular among the upper echelons to begin with due to his winged serpents. The colosseum practices were removed by Radagon but the hatred for serpents must have persisted.

3.Correct me if I am wrong on this but the base serpent in the original Japanese description is called ‘malevolent serpent’ not base serpent. Either way it is called a piece of shit in every item description which implies that it is not necessarily impure but inherently evil which would only make people hate it more.

All this combined with the details about the timeline makes the set of events clear to me - After the night of the black knives, Messmer visited his mom again. During this visit, the base serpent somehow revealed itself to the public. This caused a massive uproar due the widespread hatred of serpents and the nature of the base serpent. All this pressure on top of the fact that Godwyn died made Marika fear for Messmer’s life, so she sealed him away in the shadow realm where he would be safe. Due to the widespread scorn for Messmer, the people would remove all traces of him from history. This would make for another motive for Marika shattering the Elden ring. This is just my speculation, so you can have your interpretation of events but I believe this is supported the most by facts and implications.

Some counterpoints I want to refute-

Why do Messmer’s armies in the lands of shadow ask Marika for a sign to end the crusade? Would that not imply that she said nothing to Messmer? -

Well, Messmer could simply have chosen to keep that business a secret and continue the crusade. When his armies got mad, he let them decapitate Marika’s statues instead of telling them the truth as then his secret would be known by even more people causing more rebellions, which he did not want as that would result in him killing more of his comrades.

2.Why does Messmer’s armor say that Marika wanted him to take the blame for the crusade? -

If this is what you think the armor description says then I have a lot to tell you my friend.

Let’s look at what it is actually saying-

What does this tell us for a fact? It tells us that Marika wished for Messmer to purge the hornsent. Now for some reason people think the ‘direct thy maledictions, thine ire, and thy grief towards me alone’ part means Messmer took the blame for the crusade. With all due respect, this take is just terrible for many reasons-

Why would he need to take the blame for the crusade? The only reason I have seen people throw around is that the crusade ‘became too violent’ which is stupid for 2 reasons- 1) the Land of Shadows (LOS in short) was veiled during the crusade as we can see in the story trailer so how in the almighty name of fuck would anybody know it was violent? ’Oh someone could have travelled to LOS and seen the crusade.’ Marika is the only person capable of allowing travel between the realms, why would she allow a random noble to go to the LOS which is literally the place where all manners of death wash up. Why would any noble want to wander into the LOS anyway like they would know that is the place where the hornsent reside, you know the race of people racist to everyone without horns. 2) Even if it was violent why would the people of the erdtree mind it? Like they are fine with butchering omen babies and stick their horns on a cleaver and all the fucked up bulshit happening to albunaurics at volcano manor (we do see tortured albunaurics at Leynedell right before the entrance to the sewers). If they are fine with these practices, why would they take issue with the race of horned people who made the lives of all those living without horns miserable? It’s just stupid, Messmer would not have to take the blame for anything.

Let’s translate what those last lines mean into simple english-

"Direct thy maledictions, thine ire, and thy grief towards me alone" means:

"Send all your curses, anger, and sorrow to me only."

If we were to consider that Messmer is speaking to the erdtree people then the first two words make sense, curses and anger, but then comes sorrow. What would the erdtree people be sorrowful of? Nothing! They lose nothing from the purge of the hornsent. Don’t say that ‘Oh they lost their sons who became fire knights’ They did not, they shunned them after scorning Messmer as the fire knights were chased due to their allegiance to Messmer.

This means they had no reason for being sorrowful before shunning Messmer. It is logically impossible for Messmer to be addressing the erdtree people here.

Who is he addressing then? The hornsent. He is asking them to curse him and not Marika. Why is that? Well, there is the dialogue of the hornsent grandam cursing Marika with ‘an omen’ which has some heavy implications which I will have to elaborate on in a future post but nonetheless Messmer is talking to the hornsent here not the erdtree people according to logic and evidence.

3. Let’s question the fact that it is Messmer saying those lines. We can clearly see the hornsent still curse Marika to hell. We can also see that Messmer’s armies have started to resent her and cut the heads off of her statues, which is in a way cursing her. Even Messmer himself curses her when he dies due to the influence of the base serpent. Nobody besides the hornsent is cursing Messmer in the game. All this suggests that Marika wishes for Messmer and his armies to direct their curses and grievances towards her and not towards Messmer. She is the more significant character of the two so this is very much a valid interpretation. You can disagree with this third point but I fell the first two are quite solid.

Ok that should do it for this talking point. If you are somehow still convinced Messmer took the blame for the crusade from the erdtree people then I am willing to hear you out though I think that is simply impossible.

3. Why does Messmer curse Marika with his dying breath? This would imply that she abandoned him, right? –

No. He curses her due to the influence of the base serpent. Messmer knew why he was sealed and was perfectly fine with it. However, when the Elden Ring was shattered, it was seen as a sign of wrath according to the wrath from afar description.

This would make Messmer have doubts which would turn into resentment. This resentment however, is overshadowed by his loyalty and love towards his mother as shown by him having only love and reverence when he speaks of her; her statue in his room is the only one with its head intact. He only curses her when the base serpent takes over. That thing is stated to be evil in multiple item descriptions as I have said earlier so it is not much of a stretch to assume that it would amplify any negative feelings Messmer would have once it takes over. I have also seen some people say that in the Japanese lines Messmer says ‘I curse you’, but the kanji of you he says is the most respectful one which suggests that he was fighting the base serpent for control. I could be wrong about the kanji but either way, what we gather is that 1) Messmer shows nothing but sheer reverence towards Marika before letting the base serpent take over him and 2) that the base serpent is called evil in all item descriptions which implies that it amplifies all negative emotions. This means Messmer was fine with being sealed until the Elden ring was shattered which caused him to have some amount of resentment. When he removed the seal, these feelings were amplified and he cursed his mother.

Other Interpretations I would like to refute-

Marika always planned to abandon Messmer because he was a threat to the Erdtree in one way or another- Impossible, as he returned home and was sealed after the night of the black knives. If she saw him as a threat, he would have been sealed right from the get go.

Marika abandoned him because the crusade got too violent- I’ll copy/paste my points from earlier, 1) the LOS was veiled during the crusade as we can see in the story trailer so how in the almighty name of fuck would anybody know it was violent? ’Oh someone could have travelled to LOS and seen the crusade.’ Marika is the only person capable of allowing travel between the realms, why would she allow a random noble to go to the LOS which is literally the place where all manners of death wash up. Why would any noble want to wander into the LOS anyway like they would know that is the place where the hornsent reside, you know the race of people racist to everyone without horns. 2) Even if it was violent why would the people of the erdtree mind it? Like they are fine with butchering omen babies and stick their horns on a cleaver and all the fucked up bulshit happening to albunaurics at volcano manor (we do see tortured albunaurics at Leynedell right before the entrance to the sewers). If they are fine with these practices, why would they take issue with the race of horned people who made the lives of all those living without horns miserable?

And that is the end of my post. If you disagree with anything feel free to argue. Do present your arguments pointwise

[officialprydonchapter-deactivat]

Can you do something for me, please?

I want you to reblog this if you believe that two people can be very close and physically affectionate with one another, but still have a completely nonsexual, non-romantic relationship. 

Even if the two people in question are capable of being sexually or romantically attracted to one another. 

Because the friendship I share with someone I consider family in a way that transcends blood has been typecast as a romantic relationship ENTIRELY too many times, and I’m beginning to get sick of it.