I get on here to read people's takes about the books I'm reading or shows I'm watching. Just about over my Hunger Games reread/rewatch, just finished Succession, waiting for NHIE s4.
no but I’m still hung up on how female characters are so rarely allowed to be really soft or nurturing or romantic or even delicate in media it’s always got to be either rebel woman or career woman or struggling mother or unhinged Stepford wife or sexy spy or ice queen or sassy best friend or conflicted teenager and everyone’s like “groundbreaking” (never mind the fact that Hollywood recycles these tropes constantly and a lot of books like to play into them because of the need to stay relevant) but like just for once I’d like unrestrained, unashamed softness or even playfulness for female characters I PROMISE you it’s not going to make feminism backslide you’re gonna be FINE
One final Never Have I Ever love triangle thematic analysis
I've said this in one of my posts before, but the narrative is always going to favor what is best for Devi. A lot of what makes this show so juicy to dive into is because so much of its meaning is rooted in symbolism and higher concepts, not just the individual interactions you're looking at onscreen!
I think that's what doesn't work for some (not all) pro-Dxton anti-Ben folks. They see Paxton being respectful and kind to Devi, they see that he's the attractive object of her affection from day 1, and they see that the two of them genuinely do help each other in certain ways. But when these same people look at Benvi, they only see Ben making obnoxious comments to Devi (+ others), they see childish behavior and mistakes being made, and they see them frequently butting heads due to their shared competitive nature.
And honestly? I get it. These conclusions are easy to come to when you're looking at the surface, but they don't take into account the full story that's being told.
Let's get into it. 😎👇
I mentioned before the idea of what is best for Devi. Not what is best for any regular person out there -- what is best for Devi Vishwakumar! Our girl expresses in no uncertain terms that she enjoys her hypercompetitive rivalry-turned-bond with Ben ("Ben's smart and we talk- mostly argue- for hours!" // "I don't want to break up with Ben. He really pushes me.") The fact that they fight and compete is not a detriment to their compatibility, it is actually the thing that makes him most desirable in her mind. She would not have wanted to be with him in the first place if this were not true. Their sharp-tongued communication style may not be the standard picture of a 'healthy' relationship for most people, but, well. Devi and Ben are far from 'most people'.
Our protagonist is an incredibly emotional, dynamic person who's always searching for another high. The knife-edge nature of her relationship with Ben is enough to satisfy her itch for novelty/excitement (her differences with Paxton don't hit this box), yet Ben's presence also provides a comforting long-term consistency in her life that keeps her in touch with her True Self. He's seen the very best and the very worst of her and he always comes back. He frequently brings Devi back to herself, too, when she loses sight of what matters (friendships, family, sense of self, her goals, etc).
Then there's the dream vs. reality dichotomy that very much applies to this love triangle. Simple as it may be, it's accurate. I believe it was built that way on purpose because of how well it reflects Devi's relationships to Mohan and Nalini, which is the beating heart of what NHIE is all about. One (Mo/Pax) is more outwardly palatable than the other and provides an easygoing, self-soothing escapism that she needs in order to work through her grief. This person represents youth and the rose-colored past; Devi's tendency to idealize and indulge. The other person (Nal/Ben) is sharper around the edges, a bit harder to swallow, but pushes Devi to do better and supplies the support she needs. This person represents Devi's grounded reality; her time in the present, which is a gift she needs to embrace and hold close to her heart.
They are both important pieces of Devi's journey, but the themes of past vs. present speak for themselves! The past is something we keep in our heart, someone who has impacted us and we'll always carry with us -- but the ultimate goal is to move forward from that. The central relationship of Never Have I Ever is, without any doubt, that of Devi & Nalini as they heal and grow together. In terms of Devi's romantic life (which is what this analysis is about), her relationship with Ben is the one that more closely shadows the series arc between her & Nalini.
I'd like to address some things by the individual season now. One of my observations watching s1 for the first time was that Paxton was usually aligned with bad things in Devi's life, whereas Ben was aligned with the good. ie, Paxton was the source of Devi's falling out with Elfab and Nalini // Ben is the one who repaired those relationships. These things aren't Paxton's fault, nor do I place any blame on him. They're just subtle narrative choices that send up unspoken flags saying, hey look, this isn't the right person for her. This theme mostly remained in s1, but given that it was NHIE's debut season, it planted several seeds for me about who the boys were for Devi and how they fit into her world.
Season 2 does a lot to sort out the difference in what Devi thinks she wants (Paxton) and what her heart truly wants (Ben). Yes, I'm going there, too: head vs. heart. Devi's underlying preference for Ben > Paxton should be easy to spot as early as 2x01 -- if only for the fact that Devi finally bagged the hot guy of her dreams, yet, choosing to be with him isn't easy for her! In fact, as both Devi and Eleanor confirm later, she wanted to choose Ben in the first place. Like... that's crazy!!! So despite all the pieces falling into place for her and Paxton, and against her friends' shallow advice, she decides that she won't let go of Ben. Instead, she makes the misguided decision to date both. This isn't the kind of mistake she'll ever make again. It isn't Devi acting out because of Ben -- it signals a profound attachment to him when, all things considered, picking Paxton should have been a no brainer. That revealed everything I needed to know in order to understand that being with Paxton wasn't what she wanted in her heart of hearts.
Then, of course, 3x10 brings that all home with the stomach knots comparison. As a bonus, Devi even explicitly states that Paxton was a dream! Ben, however -- her flawed reality -- is the one who still gives her butterflies. This is the result of Devi's slow awakening to her true inner self, the Devi who values realness and authenticity and loving through imperfection. It's a step closer to the complete acceptance of herself. (Notice as well that right after this point, it becomes more undeniable than ever that Ben is who she wants to be with.)
As long as Paxton was a romantic possibility for Devi, their relationship was tied to her feelings of insecurity and inferiority. Again this is not Paxton's fault -- he assures her of the opposite all the time -- but this is Devi's story, and we are shown over and over that Devi fears true vulnerability with Paxton (both sexually and emotionally). Compare this to the way she has always been confident, Seen(tm), driven, and unabashedly herself in her relationship with Ben, even when they were enemies. At a glance Devi may appear to act more immature with Ben, but she grows with him more than anyone else (besides Nalini) thanks to Ben's habit of encouraging accountability and showing her that actions can have consequences.
Anyway, TLDR version:
Paxton = Devi's youth, Mohan, grief, distraction, the past, idealism, and the head (constructed ideas).
Ben = Devi's true self, Nalini, healing, confrontation, the present, reality, and the heart (authentic truths).
Never Have I Ever's romantic story structure rests on the premise of these symbolic definitions. They are gospel, and while the characters will grow and change and become better versions of themselves, they will do so within the lines that are already drawn. The lines exist for a reason -- they are a narrative tool. These characters cannot and should not 'grow out' of their roles because those roles are their identities within the show's framework. Character development isn't being wasted because the characters are exactly who they are meant to be right through to the end. They are symbols. If that's not your cup of tea, so be it! But there's nothing wrong with this writing style; in fact it's one of my favorites because everything is so neatly defined, yet fascinating to read into 🥰
The imperfect Ben had to be Devi's true love because her love interests are, in a way, reflections of herself. By no fault of his own, Devi always felt the need to be "perfect" for Paxton due to her romanticized perception of him. That is the point of their story together. Her acceptance of the deep love she has for Ben (AND Nalini!), despite his sometimes off-putting outer demeanor, is aligned with Devi's acceptance of her own imperfections -- that she is hot-headed, she can be self-absorbed, she makes mistakes -- but that she is also brilliant and driven and caring and radiant, and she is equally worthy of receiving the love that she has to offer others.
Narratively speaking, it was never truly a competition.
One of these days I'm going to write a post about the intentional fusion of Ben and Paxton's archetypes, and why I think it makes people so upset.
We like to distill people into traits, but dynamic characters-healthy characters-integrate qualities of the people they interact with or aspire to become.
Paxton caring about school, becoming more vulnerable, adopting a "Ben-like" side to him.
Ben becoming a bit of a stud, rescuing Devi at the bar, climbing through her window, "adopting Paxton-like characteristics".
It has very little to do with ships, and much more to do with personal development. It’s intentional but it makes people angry, and I have a very specific theory as to why.
I agree with you! I've also noticed a similar but slightly different thing, where main characters often don't have a clearly defined "thing"-- they're very complex-- while side characters are distilled into traits. This phenomenon in NHIE is, to me, one of the clearest pieces of evidence why Devi and Ben are "endgame," because they're the two characters we know the most about and the characters who fit into typical archetypes the least.
Devi, for example, is smart and good at school, but she's also a hothead, she's also obsessed with TikToks/Youtube promposals, has eclectic fashion, grapples with her Indianness, has a complicated relationship with each of her parents, is rebellious despite being a nerd, etc etc etc. She's not about just one thing. It's kind of hard to sum her up. Eleanor, on the other hand, is about theater. Everything she does in the show sort of revolves around that. Fabiola is about robotics (do we even know anything else about her? her likes/dislikes etc?) Aneesa is about sports and *not* being nerdy. They all had other side plots, but their characters just don't feel as real/dynamic as Devi (at least to me).
Ben, similar to Devi, we know a lot about. He wants to get into Columbia and he's a competitive nerd, sure. But he also likes Rick and Morty and the NBA. He speaks Mandarin. He thought art was BS but came around to it. He's a softie at heart and is kind both to Patty and Devi, two of the only people in his life who show a genuine interest in him. His relationship with his parents is fleshed out and informs the way he behaves at school and in the rest of his life (Eleanor got a parent backstory too but it doesn't really affect the way she acts in the rest of her life.)
I think they tried to do this complexifiying (sorry) with Paxton after season 1 but it always felt a bit tacked on as an afterthought. It was always about proving he was "more than just a jock." With Ben, his nerdiness was never the sole thing about him-- he was able to charm Shira (not that much of an accomplishment) and Aneesa (a bigger accomplishment).
Back to your original point, I think part of the ire is because Paxton has been so defined by being the romanticized dreamboat/boyfriend/hot jock (like Eleanor and Fab, I think he has had other storylines, but they haven't really informed his behavior in the same way Ben and Devi's backstories have informed their actions) that the idea of him being deprived of that role is unpalatable.
for all that they both look like their fathers, it is their mothers that Katniss and Peeta seem to emulate in their most raw and broken moments in Mockingjay: Katniss, like her mother, becomes numb and grief-stricken; Peeta, like his, becomes scathing and physically violent; there’s some deeper thesis here, but it felt worth mentioning; the Mommy issues of the main duo are very present throughout the series, though under the surface
I've always thought that though Katniss looks externally like her father, and has his physical qualities like the ability to sing or hunt, her disposition is more like her mother, which may be partially why there's this chasm of resentment between them. There's how they both respond to grief: becoming numb, catatonic, but they're both generally more stoic and reserved characters. It was Katniss's father who was happy-go-lucky, always singing and whistling. He seems, the way she describes him, very jovial. Prim seems to have inherited that easy openness that he had. Katniss's mother always seemed a bit more reserved-- she would only light up for Katniss's father. Just like Katniss only lights up for Peeta.
On Peeta's side, you're right and I never thought of how the hijacking had the effect of making him vindictive and hostile and violent-- like his mom. It's interesting to think whether, if Katniss had been hijacked, she would have become more like a walking zombie.
everyone talks a lot about suffering and despair as it pertains to Dostoevsky’s work which is totally fair and understandable given the subject matter but I rarely see discussion of how deeply and sacredly tender the end of C&P is. I think there’s a very important lesson to be learned which is that you do not unilaterally get to decide that you are horrid beyond redemption and unworthy of love, no matter what horrible things you’ve done. Sonya and Razumikhin and Dunya do not abandon Rodya as he thinks they should and in fact they uproot their entire lives to make sure there will still be a place for him in the world when he gets out of prison. Other people have free will and they can use that free will to unconditionally love and forgive you and there’s nothing you can do about that, whether you choose to receive it or not so you may as well receive it- even if you feel unworthy. And that is like the very beginning of hope and coming back from the place of no return. Is letting yourself be loved. And letting yourself be loved—- even if you don’t feel that you deserve it—- opens the gateway to experiencing love for others yourself after a prolonged period of cutting yourself off from feeling those feelings of positive regard. It’s a stream that flows both ways. And it doesn’t change any of the horrifying facts about the past. But it makes it possible to begin to live again.
Wait, I keep seeing A LOT of angry people talking about Lucy's bow in The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes movie... as it's "too familiar to Katniss's bow many years later." It's literally in the book. Page 30.
Thank you.
see and I would agree that except that within the first chapter, we get the impression that Katniss doesn’t even really know who the first victor was, let alone that Katniss has ever seen Lucy Gray’s games, when she didn’t see Haymitch’s ... thoooooo if you wanted to like, at least read into the CF movie, we could pretend there’s a missing scene where she and Peeta just like, watch TBOSAS
In the TBOSAS, all records of the tenth Hunger Games (Lucy Gray’s games) are never aired, and all copies of the games are destroyed, except for one copy kept by Dr. Gaul. (Snow basically helped Lucy cheat with poison and was caught). So there’s no way Katniss or anyone else from District 12 could have seen Lucy’s bow.
Snow gives his lover a rose and then kills her, fast forward years later, he gives Katniss roses to tell her he’s going to kill her lover. Suzanne is a genius.
“How could I want children? Are you really trying to spin it like you’re being the normal one here?” There’s anger in his tone now. And it sets me on fire.
“Exactly. I’m not normal and neither are you!” I hiss. “So why would we have children!”
“And I suppose you’re the only one who gets a say,” he says, his tone mocking, his face flushed red.
I bark a laugh. “Not at all. Have all the say you want. But find someone else to carry your children.”
And all the anger drains out of Peeta’s face. He looks like I’ve just slapped him. And because I can’t bear to look at him like that and I can’t bear to be in this room where I’ve just said something that ugly, I spring up from bed and march down the hall to another bedroom, throw the door open and slam it behind me.
I stand in the darkness for a few minutes, chest heaving, then crumple to the floor. I don’t want him to hear me crying, so I take deep breaths, hold for five seconds, and release slowly while the tears stream down my face. A few hiccups escape, but overall I’m successful at crying silently. No sounds come from our room. Or Peeta’s room, now, I guess. I’m suddenly so angry I no longer have my house to go back to, nowhere I can be totally alone. I wipe the tears from my face aggressively.
Finally I crawl into the cold bed, wrap the blankets tightly around me, and try to force myself to sleep. I’m shivering hard, my teeth won’t stop chattering. The darkness is oppressive, pressing around me like a hissing animal. I get up and pace, then get back into bed, rinse and repeat until finally, what must be hours later, I fall into a fitful sleep. Every dead person I know is staring at me reproachfully in my dreams, and when I reach out to touch them, to explain, they turn away from me in disgust. I know I must wake up screaming at least twice, but no one comes to the room.
At around six I hear footsteps, rummaging down the hall, and eventually a familiar tread down the stairs. The door closes and I resist the urge to peak out the window and watch him walk away up the path. There’s a dull ache in my chest. My limbs feel like wood. Maybe this is it, I think. Maybe it’s over.
It feels like a colossal effort to even stand, but I work up to it after a couple hours. I make myself brush my teeth and go downstairs although what I want to do is lay down and never get up. A familiar darkness is setting in around me, and I feel like if I don’t get outside now, I might never go outside again.
The cold fresh air forces some life into me. I force myself, step by step, to the woods. There I put my hands on my cheeks and take deep breaths. My brain feels fuzzy and I wonder if I’m finally, truly, going mad. I start making a list of things, good things to remind myself that life can be good. Greasy Sae made me breakfast for months when I was crazy. Peeta planted the flowers for Prim…Delly danced with Greasy Sae’s granddaughter. Peeta brought us bread… Thom honored all the dead people. Peeta fed everyone in town. Peeta, Peeta…
I choke and start crying again, this time with no attempt to make it silent. Peeta! Of course Peeta would still want children. How could I have been so stupid? Of course, he is still good, and whole, and light in his core. He would be a good father. A great father. And he should be. But me, me? How? Never. So this is it, then. When he finally realizes I’m no good for him and he’ll have to move on. And if he won’t, I have to make him. I don’t think it will be a problem after how nasty I was last night. Maybe he can marry Delly. The thought makes me so sick and miserable my crying starts anew. I howl, loud, ugly sounds. I kick at rocks and branches and throw a rock at a tree for good measure.
