Random Musings/Meta

Multishipper/Writer

[randommusingsstuff]

Hello💕

I need to know your opinion! This season wasn't perfect, but like the last 2 episodes? That was a romcom! So how are we feeling?!!

Hello back 💕 Definitely not a perfect season, but I’m very happy with what we got!

They could have made Ben’s arc of integrating his shadow self a touch more explicit. They played with the presence of the shadow quite literally last season, using the metaphor of contrasting pears to reveal his internal psyche. But most people tend to place romance in a separate bucket from character development, not understanding that an effective love story is transformative. So, the general audience might feel short-changed by his growth.

I also think that Aneesa could have been woven into Devi’s arc of cultural acceptance as a continuation of the intergenerational conflict between Muslims and Hindus. This was a thread left hanging in 1x04, and if I’m being honest, I don’t think Mindy wanted to tackle it.

My other (minor) quibble is that while I loved Paxton’s general arc and his stand-alone episode, I didn’t like what they tried to do with him and Lindsay. Some of their scenes were clunkily placed in episodes to give Paxton screen time, and I didn’t buy them as a good fit romantically.

That being said, I really love this season. I will always be an advocate for unabashedly happy endings, especially in a story exploring trauma and healing through human connection.

I will miss it very dearly, but I hope that all the incredible writers, artists and fans stick around to talk about it for years to come.

[randommusingsstuff]

What did you think of NHIE season 4? :)

It’s funny, I watched the season in a day and processed almost none of it. After marinating on my thoughts and letting the initial euphoria fade, I can honestly say that I adored season 4!

I peeked at my moots on Tumblr and have been enjoying the intellectual analysis of Ben’s arc, Ben and Devi’s relationship progression, and overall sentiments towards the season. And I’ve come to the conclusion that the way I feel about season 4 is how many of my moots felt about season 3.

Which is to say that the ending really resonated with me, and that I’m pleased about how most main arcs were handled. I’m still deciding if season 1 or 4 is my favourite, but my order is : 1/4 > 3 > 2.

There are a few things I want to write about:

Ben and Devi’s soulmate symbolism. I expected the love confession, but the foreshadowing of marriage and the explicit nod to them being mirrors of each other blew me away.

I’ve made it no secret that Devi is the most interesting character to dissect, but this season has compelled to make a much-needed Ben meta. While understated, I thought his arc was handled well, and I actually think the decision to not bring up season 2 directly was intentional.

General thoughts (and quibbles) – which I’m more than happy to answer through asks 😊

[randommusingsstuff]

One of these days I'm going to write a post about the intentional fusion of Ben and Paxton's archetypes, and why I think it makes people so upset.

We like to distill people into traits, but dynamic characters-healthy characters-integrate qualities of the people they interact with or aspire to become.

Paxton caring about school, becoming more vulnerable, adopting a "Ben-like" side to him.

Ben becoming a bit of a stud, rescuing Devi at the bar, climbing through her window, "adopting Paxton-like characteristics".

It has very little to do with ships, and much more to do with personal development. It’s intentional but it makes people angry, and I have a very specific theory as to why.

[thinkinthankin]

I agree with you! I've also noticed a similar but slightly different thing, where main characters often don't have a clearly defined "thing"-- they're very complex-- while side characters are distilled into traits. This phenomenon in NHIE is, to me, one of the clearest pieces of evidence why Devi and Ben are "endgame," because they're the two characters we know the most about and the characters who fit into typical archetypes the least.

Devi, for example, is smart and good at school, but she's also a hothead, she's also obsessed with TikToks/Youtube promposals, has eclectic fashion, grapples with her Indianness, has a complicated relationship with each of her parents, is rebellious despite being a nerd, etc etc etc. She's not about just one thing. It's kind of hard to sum her up. Eleanor, on the other hand, is about theater. Everything she does in the show sort of revolves around that. Fabiola is about robotics (do we even know anything else about her? her likes/dislikes etc?) Aneesa is about sports and *not* being nerdy. They all had other side plots, but their characters just don't feel as real/dynamic as Devi (at least to me).

Ben, similar to Devi, we know a lot about. He wants to get into Columbia and he's a competitive nerd, sure. But he also likes Rick and Morty and the NBA. He speaks Mandarin. He thought art was BS but came around to it. He's a softie at heart and is kind both to Patty and Devi, two of the only people in his life who show a genuine interest in him. His relationship with his parents is fleshed out and informs the way he behaves at school and in the rest of his life (Eleanor got a parent backstory too but it doesn't really affect the way she acts in the rest of her life.)

I think they tried to do this complexifiying (sorry) with Paxton after season 1 but it always felt a bit tacked on as an afterthought. It was always about proving he was "more than just a jock." With Ben, his nerdiness was never the sole thing about him-- he was able to charm Shira (not that much of an accomplishment) and Aneesa (a bigger accomplishment).

Back to your original point, I think part of the ire is because Paxton has been so defined by being the romanticized dreamboat/boyfriend/hot jock (like Eleanor and Fab, I think he has had other storylines, but they haven't really informed his behavior in the same way Ben and Devi's backstories have informed their actions) that the idea of him being deprived of that role is unpalatable.

But I don't know, I'm just spitballing here.

[randommusingsstuff]

Wow, you managed to put this in a way that's not only 100% accurate, but far more eloquent than what I would have written myself.

[randommusingsstuff]

Hello 💕

I want to ask. Not predictions. What would you like to happen in S4? For benvi and Devi

Hi love 💕 Thank you for this ask!

In no particular order:

A love confession.

A scene that involves passionate, angst-ridden yearning through intense eye-contact (since Maitreyi and Jaren pull it off so well).

Devi going to Princeton, Ben going to Colombia.

A conversation that addresses the ramifications of season 2 head-on, subtlety be damned. Something akin to “Devi, I was in love with you, and you broke my heart.”

Ben being proud of Devi when she wins valedictorian, showcasing his ability to put aside his competitive drive and support her.

An acknowledgement of Ben and Devi’s loose threads (valentines day card, Eleanor’s reveal to Ben that “it wasn’t always him”).

Devi choosing Ben (instead of Paxton being the one to shut things down again) and making it clear to Ben that he is her first choice.

Ben letting go of his trauma from season 2, being an emotional anchor for Devi, and fully accepting her as she is.

Fun banter laced with sexual tension

Ben and Devi finally dancing together (throw in an almost-kiss for a side of extra torture)

Full-circle moments and call-backs to previous seasons

Nalini giving Ben and Devi her seal of approval, denoting a rite of passage into liberty, and ushering in the next phase of Devi’s life.

[randommusingsstuff]

the trailer gave what it needed to give about Ben and Devi without giving us anything at the same time. It teases Devi and Paxton almost kiss and already teases Ethan and Devi. Nothing romantic from Ben and Devi.

All I know is what the bed scene is going to wreck us. maitreyi and jaren about to deliver their best scene together for sure.

It’s true (source: my imagination)

The one thing necessitated by every romantic male lead is not his looks, his charm, or even his wit - it’s his ability to portray a sense of yearning without so much as a word. 

And in that regard, Jaren Lewison’s big blue eyes can do no wrong.

As for Maitreyi - she’s an absolute prodigy, and I think we’re about to witness her best work yet.

[randommusingsstuff]

They surprised me because I was sure they weren’t going to do it so now this adds another layer to Ben and Devi because it’s a new level of intimacy unlocked and it feels serious now. Not the level of playfulness banter. There’s this still from 403 and Devi and Ben still seem to be avoiding each other on class and Devi still seems angry. But as someone theorized they’ll talk again in the trip to NYC (405) but won’t address the thing they need to address.

Ben and Devi at odds props to Devi being Devi and getting w Ethan. I don’t think this will be a Des situation. Ethan was described as a really bad guy so he’d probably be unpleasant. And this teaches a lesson to Devi about guys she definitely doesn’t want in her life (but also that she can pull bad guys now good for her).

The Ethan and Paxton arc will wrap before 408. Ethan’s arc probably earlier. So now they can focus on their endgame. I think the Paxton and Devi scene being teased is their only suggestive one and it will mark closure. A sweet one about their impact on each others life’s and that’s it. And that scene happens in 407 according to the picture source.

Prom episode is 409, at this point I agree with your that Ben and Devi know they are in love with each other so it’s not them but the fact they need to make choices about college. I see the bed scene to be rather emotional (and another sex scene happening there but this time is signifies a whole new thing for them)

Another person pointed out that Maitreyi and Jaren’s last scene with the yellow dress and corsage could be a retry to prom. And this is their confession scene after Devi gets a much needed push from Mohan. And the very last scene about the library could be Columbia’s library and this is a tiny bit of a skip forward to give us the answer that they’re together.

I love how this was sent to me weeks ago and every single point still stands. No notes, anon.

The only thing I’ll add is that Ben and Devi’s conflict won’t just be about college because that would lack emotional resonance. When building to a satisfying finale, we have to ask ourselves: what are the personal stakes in this conflict?

Okay, so Ben and Devi might not end up together. Why should we care? How does this affect Devi?

And, well, the obvious answer is that she’s in love with him and would be heartbroken. But the underlying stakes of her being afraid to embrace love are that she’s letting her own insecurities stop her from living a life that’s emotionally rich and fulfilling.

This will come to a head in the series finale, because that’s where the show’s central thesis of self-love needs to intersect with (and bring closure to) her core relationships.

[randommusingsstuff]

To me the trailer shows exactly what they needed to show to tease but leave us curious. They couldn’t ignore the big cliffhanger so it was going to be mentioned on the trailer so I knew the answer of whether they did it or not would he answered there. This is the final season they are not trying to collect new audiences for a renewal. This is the endgame. I think the trailer shows what it needed to show. I could theorize about it but I still not nothing about them or what it’s happening.

And it also makes me think they will sleep together again (prom night) but this time without miscommunication and both being on the same page about what it means so it parallels the awkwardness from their first boink but this time is them being fine and confident of what it means for them moving forward.

I love this theory.

I haven't wavered from the idea that the love confession is happening in episode 10, but I think it would be interesting if Devi and Ben have sex again in episode 9, and are much confident in their decision. It would elevate the stakes of the finale in an unexpected but fitting way.

Never Have I Ever's style has always been: give the audience the most expected outcome in the most unexpected way possible.

I like the way you think Anon!

[randommusingsstuff]

One of these days I'm going to write a post about the intentional fusion of Ben and Paxton's archetypes, and why I think it makes people so upset.

We like to distill people into traits, but dynamic characters-healthy characters-integrate qualities of the people they interact with or aspire to become.

Paxton caring about school, becoming more vulnerable, adopting a "Ben-like" side to him.

Ben becoming a bit of a stud, rescuing Devi at the bar, climbing through her window, "adopting Paxton-like characteristics".

It has very little to do with ships, and much more to do with personal development. It’s intentional but it makes people angry, and I have a very specific theory as to why.

[randommusingsstuff]

what do you think of the scene of the men grabbing devi at the party in New York in the trailer?

Hi, what do you think of ben coming to help devi from the creep grabbing onto her? do you think someone told ben to come quick or do you think he knew something was up and after that got knocked out? what do you think of that scene???

So… if I’m being honest, that scene hits a little too close to home. I think it’s an accurate representation of what happens to young women at these nightclubs.

As far as Ben’s involvement, I don’t think he has to be told to help her, he’s already watching her. We know that Ben tends to get more emotional when he’s drunk (“yeah well she broke my heart”) so I see him having a contemplative moment about his feelings, perhaps showing a bit of jealousy. When he notices the situation, he steps in without being told.

It’s pure impulse. A nice juxtaposition from 1x08 where he makes a move to help Devi out of the pool but doesn’t get there in time.

[randommusingsstuff]

SO, Ben and Devi boinked… and it seems they haven’t spoken about it at all so Ben interpreted that as a one time thing and now are tip toeing around the whole thing. it’s weird but fair, I’d hope we get some inside on this in one of Dr. Ryan sessions which I assume we will since it’s a big thing for Devi. That changes the dynamic a lot for Ben and Devi separately and together because there’s this layer of intimacy that now exists between them that complicates things. I really need Devi’s inside about this situation and how does she feels about it, because as kamala said, is she ready for that vulnerability? and of course, Ben and his feelings. if he choses to date Margot out of fear of the boink not being a real thing for devi and interpretation her silence as a situation that will never happen.

surprisingly, i don’t think ben/margot will last long and she will have a lot more grace than what the writers showed to Aneesa (sadly).

the michael cimino situation as you guessed it’s going to be just in between the margot/ben situation but I doubt it gets past ep6. paxton and devi won’t get much screen time but will have a cute moment of closure. ben and devi will tip toe around their status until ep9 because i think the bed scene is THE moment. it’s after prom and i think something does happen before this that gets used as the detonate for them to grow some sense and just talk to each other.

Hey anon,

I'm glad you brought up Kamala because I think that Devi and Kamala are eventually going to have a conversation about the situation which will push her towards Ben. And to answer your question, I think that Devi wants to be ready for love, but that she still has some ways to go.

Even in the trailer, we get this line: “Now that I’ve done the deed, I can focus on what’s important.” It’s reminiscent of her mindset in season 1: compartmentalizing and refusing to process her emotions.

Devi’s never been in love before, and it terrifies her. But what’s far more terrifying is the thought that Ben loves her back. Because in order for her to be comfortable with that level of intimacy and vulnerability, she has to embrace herself.

All that to say, Devi’s feelings are going to come out at some point. :)

Unfortunately, I don’t share your optimism with the Ben and Margot side plot. I think it will drag on for longer than it has to, ending in what I hope is an amicable split between Margot and Ben where he breaks up with her. (Please writers, give us this one thing!)

I think the timeline for Devi’s relationships will be as follows:

4x01 - Ben and Devi fallout

4x03 - Ethan and Devi first kiss

4x06 - Ethan and Devi breakup

4x07 - Paxton and Devi closure

4x08 - Family-focused episode

4x09-4x10 - Ben and Devi’s love confession

But I think you’re correct about there being something that brings them together beforehand. I’m assuming that things are tense between them until the New York trip, at which point Ben defends her. From then on, they’re on talking terms, building towards the big finale.

[randommusingsstuff]

trailer for season 4 👀 devi and ben did have sex but ben thought it was one time thing since devi didn’t say anything else. oh boy, now that’s an interesting thing.

Very interesting indeed 👀👀

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that they went through with the "one free boink". As I mentioned recently, it's the more challenging route but also the more rewarding one if they write it correctly. Season 4 has to dedicate the time to unpacking Ben's trauma from season 2 and Devi's fear of embracing her agency. And from the looks of it, that's exactly what's going to happen!

Also, there was just so much in that trailer (boink aside) that looked immaculate.

Devi going from insulting Preethi and the Bollywood dance group in 1x04 to dancing at an Indian wedding? Perfection.

Ben climbing through her window, except it's intentionally clumsy and awkward because she sees him for who he is (without the "romanticized lens") and loves him anyways? Mwuah 💋

Nalini saying change can be a good thing after spending so much time being terrified of losing her daughter?

Yeah... I'm fine... it's fine

_______

Thank you to everyone who's sending asks - I love and appreciate you all! I am getting to them slowly but surely. 💗

[randommusingsstuff]

Hello! What are your thoughts about the trailer? I'm kind of scared, ngl

Hi! 💕

My thoughts on any and all promotion material are as follows: all of it is meaningless when it comes to predicting the overarching story.

It has its uses for the episode-to-episode plots, and there are people much better at figuring those things out than me. But when it comes to Devi's arc and her relationship with Ben, the writers don't play around. (I don’t care what Lang Fisher says in interviews, Ben and Devi’s endgame has been locked in since the season 2 finale.)

The trailer could have shown me anything and it wouldn’t change my confidence in Benvi endgame. Because that’s just the story.

But since you asked about the trailer, let me put on my investigative hat!

It does feel like the gloves are off when it comes to this being a season heavily centered around Devi and Ben. What I find interesting is that all the scenes of Devi and Ben have an element of angst, interspliced with obvious bait of Devi/Paxton and Devi/Ethan.

Many people came away with the idea that there was too much Ben and Devi in the trailer, but they’re hiding a lot. They’re hiding all of Ben and Devi’s romantic scenes, while liberally handing out kisses and almost-kisses for Ethan/Devi and Daxton. The intended purpose is to give the impression that everything is going wrong for Ben and Devi, but that the story is centered around them.

And since everyone came away from the trailer confused, excited and eager to discuss, I’d say they did their jobs. :)

[randommusingsstuff]

Since you are answering questions I wanted your theory over Ben potentially having a scene with Mohan on Season 4 for his POV episode.

The Mohan actor congratulated Jaren on his birthday last year and said he couldn’t post their recent picture together because it’s a spoiler so maybe next year so if they were to show a flashback with them, what do you think it will be about? I always imagined that if Nalini was familiar with Ben so was Mohan. He is been Devi’s “nemesis” since they were little children.

Hey anon,

Sorry for the delay on responding to this! I had tedious, adulting things to take care of.

Everything I've seen of season 4 so far has been about bringing things full circle. Devi's journey towards self-love, her culture, her aversion to change, her relationship with her mother, and her desire to be seen and loved for who she is. And of all the theories I've noticed floating around, this is one of my favourites.

I don't think we're getting a Ben POV episode, but a flashback is possible. We are definitely getting another Mohan and Devi scene in the finale, and he's going to push her to give a love confession.

Mohan has always been her guiding beacon of light, and will encourage her to love, live a full life, and fight for what she wants.

This is my long-winded way of saying that yes, we are definitely getting a scene of Devi and Mohan talking about her feelings for Ben (and how it ties into her greater arc of self-acceptance). As for Ben and Mohan being in a scene together? I'm intrigued, a flashback would be fun!

[randommusingsstuff]

NEW THEORY based on the trailer:

Devi and the girls won’t be able to show up at prom. They get into that limo accident and get stuck in the way so they won’t show up. Ben notices this and goes to see her on her bedroom (climbing window/bed scene) if you notice Devi is wearing her prom dress. I’m still trying to figure out if Ben doesn’t go to prom either but by choice because he isn’t dresses for prom. He is in normal clothes.

That will be the scene they’ll talk about their feelings for each other after a season of avoiding the inevitable. Devi is the one that has to chose Ben on her own terms and this will be it. And then an impromptu prom moment between them in her bedroom.

So I bet the scene with Ben in that pink jacket in front of Devi‘s locked is actually *BOYFRIEND* Ben and I bet to predict the pic of them happily studying is them on the last episode. We might get one episode of them as a couple because prom is 409.

Hey anon,

Let’s theorize together 🙂

I think it’s possible that Ben asks Devi to prom and comes to her when he realizes that her limo crashes. And I think all the Paxton/Ethan drama will get wrapped up by episode 8.

This still, however, gives me a pause on them being happily together. There’s so much sublimated yearning, intimacy, pain and comfort in this one shot. Maitreyi and Jaren do an incredible job. They are going to emotionally wreck me.

This shot simultaneously says “I love you” and “I don’t know what to do with myself”. I think that by this point, they know they want to be together but there’s a final obstacle in their way. Whether that obstacle is that they’re boyfriend and girlfriend but are worried about going to different colleges, or that they have yet to define that relationship… your guess is as good as mine.

While I’ve always had a firm grasp on the overarching themes and arcs for the shows, the specific plot points manage to elude me (much to my delight!). I absolutely love hearing everyone’s theories, keep 'em coming!

[blues-valentine]

devi’s endgame will be devi solo or ben. those are the options.

I agree. The trailer just reinforces this idea. I would be really surprise if it goes differently.

I think if Devi were to have a definitive romantic ending it will be Ben because they are being portrayed as the romance of the show. They’re the slow burn, will-they/won’t they romance and they are the ones being kept apart for narrative proposes. They have been the only ones without a real chance at a relationship.

Actually, I am on the team Devi ending up alone with hints of her and Ben in the future for college is the most likely ending but this post by @randommusingsstuff made some good arguments against it. Mindy is aiming for a non-ambiguous ending. She’s not doing stuff half way, and I think she wants Devi (and so the audience) to end the series feeling hopeful and happy about love. Not to do with the idea of “realism” because NHIE is after all a romcom.

[randommusingsstuff]

You make a good point on how the writers really said “the only way we can make Devi and Paxton interact it’s if we thrown them in high school” because they always strike me as the people that will stay in high school. The memories of their relationship will stay in that place and never go further than that. They don’t strike me as people that can easily interact without being together like Ben and Devi.

If you think about it, all the times they had to interact has been because they are forced to it. On Season 2 Paxton would’ve never talked to Devi again if it wasn’t because she was assigned as his tutor and he needed her to get to college. As opposed to Ben and Devi despite the turbulence not being able to not talk to each other because that’s who they are.

I believe Ben and Devi as a romantic pairing and as a platonic pairing. Paxton and Devi only function when they’re trying to pursue each other romantically because they don’t have much in common, evidence by the fact that Ben and Devi still had a close friendship during Devi dating Des but Paxton and Devi were not close but exes that spoke once in a while.

So, the writers only having them relink their romance in high school (and not outside) feels very in the nose with the symbolism.

You're absolutely right, anon. It's very symbolic that Devi and Paxton's relationship is confined to them being in high school together.

I think it's @thefabulousfab-3 that always talks about this, but d/b have such a strong foundation of friendship. Something that's so underrated about their relationship is how easy it is for Devi to be vulnerable with Ben, how easy it is for them to have meaningful conversations. They love the mere act of being around each other, and they are going to be in each others lives forever.

I'm going to use a quote from one of my other favourite TV couples, because I think it also applies to Ben and Devi:

[randommusingsstuff]

A long ask since I love your theories so much!

I agree abt the “boink” not happening because either they will make out but get interrupted before it happens or Ben backs down from it. S4 needs to actualize Ben’s story line cuz the events of S2 were really hard on him and while he is friends w Devi he is still reserved cuz he is too afraid of getting hurt again. I don’t think they’ll have sex and later ghost each other, it doesn’t seem like them. And having their first time together and then dating Margot doesn’t seem like Ben either. I also want Devi to have sex cuz she wants to and not because she doesn’t want to be the last of her friends still not having sex. So I 100% agree that they won’t have sex but Devi will be under the impression they’ll be together for senior year so it’s surprised to see him dating Margot.

I think S4 would benefit from exploring Ben’s vulnerability and reservations about falling deeper for Devi and I’m a firm believer Devi is the one that needs to confess to him at the end. Jaren said he got everything he wanted from Ben on S4 plus 406 seems to be another Ben episode and according to some it seems to be the episode before the trip to NYC which is 407, interesting.. I wonder if we get something similar to the UN trip. A lot of parallels.

I believe in a Devi and Ben explicitly romantic ending but the show needs to work on Ben’s perspective for the ship to end in a full circle.

And I believe Devi needs to be faced with the possibility of getting back with Paxton but this time she’s the one to reject him because she realized for herself that she wants Ben and the dream idea she had with Paxton is long gone. Paxton was the one to break up w her the first time. I want Devi to make the choice for herself because Ben is anything but a second choice.

Another thing I’m interested in is that there’s a confirmed wedding this season and since I know Mindy is a sucker for romcom moments I know we will get some Benvi foreshadowing with the wedding speeches by the couple in a very classic romcom fashion. I am optimistic that this season will tie Benvi in the endgame I’ve always known they were destined to have.

Yes.

Yes to all of this. Perfect post, no notes.

It's like you plucked my own thoughts out of my brain and worded them better than I ever could.

I've never spoken about this, but one of my biggest aggravations with season 2 is that we did not get Ben's perspective. I understand that they wanted to "even the scales" by giving us a Paxton episode, but they deprived us of some much-needed character building. Ben is about to have a POV episode in every season except the one where he needed it the most.

And fwiw, I still think that it's possible that Devi and Ben had sex, but the writers are going to have to put in a considerable amount of legwork to make the general audience understand his actions after the fact.

Okay, back to gushing about this post. Yes to Devi having to reject Paxton. I made an entire post about Devi's agency, stating that Devi has to have both options available to her so she can choose what she wants. I've seen people say that "obviously, since Paxton's gone, she's going to go with Ben." Season 4 should dispel that notion. She’s choosing Ben because she loves him, not because she can’t have someone else.

And finally, yes to the classic rom com ending. We're getting a very traditional, (hopefully?) semi-Bollywood-inspired love story.

So in conclusion: yes.