Joker Out interview with magazine Mladina, published on 30th of June 2023
Interviewed by Vanja Pirc
Photos by Borut Kranjc
This year's Slovenian representatives at Eurovision, the five-member band Joker Out, attracted an unusually large amount of attention with their accessibility and playfulness, especially with the song "Carpe Diem." In the days and weeks that followed, it became clear that their Eurovision entry, which only placed 21st, had indeed opened the door for them to go abroad. They started adding new concerts in Ireland, Croatia, the UK, Scotland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Serbia, and others to the ones they had already arranged in Slovenia and the former Yugoslav republics. They sold out all of them, some in just a few minutes. Well over eight thousand people will see them on the UK and Nordic tour alone. For musicians working in Slovene, that's an incredible statistic.
It's a remarkable milestone to see how they've come from "Špil liga," where they first came to the limelight by winning in 2013 when they were still a high school band, to today, being greeted by masses of enthusiastic fans below the stage, and being selected by the Scottish band Franz Ferdinand to be their opening act at Croatia's Špancirfest festival. We spoke to lead singer Bojan Cvjetićanin, guitarists Kris Guštin and Jan Peteh, and bassist Nace Jordan. Unfortunately, drummer Jure Maček was missing, but we could see that he is a man of many talents by looking at the huge wooden structure with a platform that added another floor to the band's rehearsal space in Šiška, Ljubljana.
After Eurovision, you made no secret of your disappointment at finishing 21st, but your Eurovision song "Carpe Diem," sung in Slovenian, is now one of the most listened-to songs of this year's Eurovision event. It's being played all over Europe, most notably in Finland, Poland, the UK, the Netherlands, Spain... Did you expect this turn of events?
Bojan: The result we achieved at the Eurovision Song Contest was really not the greatest. Not even close. But, as you can see, in the end, it doesn't even matter. What is more important for us is that we managed to achieve the rest of the goals we had set for ourselves. We approached Eurovision in a very organic way, aiming to translate our stage and concert experience from real life to the Eurovision stage. It was clear to us that this is the biggest show stage in Europe, maybe even in the world. We were aware that this is a competition of one song, one comprehensive performance to be presented in three minutes. Our goal was to ensure that the audience would remember Slovenia's performance in 2023, and we have achieved that. We also aimed to connect with other performers, and we succeeded in doing so. But most importantly, we wanted both our Eurovision song and our other songs to be well-received in the real world. The data from radio stations, online streaming platforms, and concert offers confirm that apparently, we have achieved that as well.
Before, you were known mainly in Slovenia, and to a lesser extent in the Balkans. However, your Eurovision song has temporarily climbed to the top 50 most viral songs in the world chart on the streaming platform Spotify. You even briefly surpassed Sweden's Loreen, the winner of this year's Eurovision, in terms of popularity.
Bojan: Just to clarify, we only surpassed her for a day or two. But it's really nice that it happened on Spotify's list of the most listened-to songs in the world.
Kris: Well, she did get a billboard in New York's Times Square as the winner at the time, so it's a matter of who surpassed whom, I suppose (gesturing with his hands).
Well, who did?
Bojan: I believe that what we will gain from this performance will surpass what many other performers will achieve. Eurovision has introduced us to a very large audience in a very short time, and they have really connected with our music. They are now translating our lyrics into their own languages and even learning Slovenian. We were surprised to see how many of them bought dictionaries to learn Slovenian - we know this because we were asked to sign them. Others are learning Slovenian through online platforms, and there are even dictionaries being created on TikTok. These listeners are not bothered at all that we are not creating in English at this point; on the contrary, they would like us to keep it that way. However, we have to be realistic. To truly expand our listener base, it's important to be accessible to people.
That's why you have already prepared an album a few months ago, featuring songs from both your previous albums rearranged in English. The album is now awaiting release. One of your main goals was to be able to translate your concert experience onto the stage.
Bojan: The first real international test after Eurovision was in Zagreb, where we performed as the opening act for the most popular young Serbian band at the moment, "Buč Kesidi", at a previously arranged concert. We performed outdoors in the middle of the day, with the sun still high up in the sky. However, we were greeted by a crowd of 2,500 people and received a phenomenal response. They sang along with us, and later we read in the Serbian media that we probably have the most Croatian fans among Slovenian bands. After this show, when we announced a solo concert in Zagreb's Tvornica for November, which is comparable in size to Ljubljana's Cvetličarna, the tickets sold out in five hours. So, we arranged another concert in the same venue, and that one sold out as well. The response in Croatia has been truly amazing, and they have set a very high bar for the future.
You have been intentionally engaging with the countries of the former Yugoslavia lately. Through songs like "Demoni" ("Demons"), you have approached them language-wise. In addition to Croatia, you have also been booked for concerts in Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Your Eurovision song also reminds me a little of Plavi orkestar, which was once the most popular Yugoslav pop band, or Đorđe Balašević. It is probably not a coincidence that the line "The game of hatred is your thing, thank you, don't count on us" is reminiscent of his hit "Računajte na nas" ("Count on us")?
Bojan: No, no, it's not a coincidence.
Is it nevertheless more difficult to plan a breakthrough to the rest of Europe? After Eurovision, the Irish were the first to sign you up, did the audience there also know your songs by heart?
Bojan: Yeah, we haven't really gotten used to that yet (laughs). In Ireland, we managed to sell out our first show in 12 minutes. It's true that it was a small venue, comparable to Ljubljana's Orto bar, and it wasn't a solo concert, but a joint performance with this year's Irish Eurovision representatives. However, due to the high level of interest, we arranged another concert in a club twice as big, which is also their most iconic venue. Soon after, other venues started to show interest. We announced a UK tour, with over five thousand tickets on sale for four shows in major cities, and they sold out. We announced a Nordic tour, with around 2,500 tickets available, and it sold out in half an hour, along with three Finnish concerts in just ten minutes. Later, we released an additional 770 tickets, which were gone in five minutes. Offers are also coming in from many other countries, and it is impossible to predict what will happen in the upcoming months.
A number of Slovenian music artists have successfully reached international audiences, from Senidah to Laibach, from Gramatik to Umek, and you were the first ones to consider using Eurovision as a springboard. Would it make sense for our country to continue using this event to promote established musicians who are eager to make an international breakthrough? You were internally selected for this competition.
Kris: It all depends on what we as a country want to achieve from this competition in the future. We have to decide whether EMA is a competition where we find the most suitable representative and expect them to make the most of their opportunity while promoting our country along the way, or whether it is a competition where Slovenian musicians present themselves to Slovenian audiences. Personally, I believe that it is definitely better to choose a performer who already has an established infrastructure in place and a certain support base, because this can enable him to use his potential to the fullest.
Jan: I think that would be the best approach as well. However, since many musicians see EMA as one of the few opportunities to showcase their work to a wide audience through public broadcasting, it would make sense to maintain that aspect too, perhaps as a prelude to EMA, transforming it into a grand finale for carefully selected artists, similar to Sanremo.
Bojan: The main issue with the previous selections was that Slovenia didn't approach it with the intention of winning. Of course, success in such a significant event is not guaranteed. But why not approach it strategically nonetheless? For example, I believe we should send Senidah to Eurovision in 2024!
Senidah is the biggest star in the Balkans, the most listened-to musician. Is she also your role model in that sense?
Bojan: Absolutely. Senidah is the first Slovenian artist, after Mr. Predin and "Lačni Franz", to truly break through in the Balkans. She does write music in Serbian, but that's irrelevant; what's important is that she's made a remarkable breakthrough in a market that has so far been very closed off to Slovenians. And not only has she broken through, but she is topping the charts. However, I would understand if Senidah refused to participate in EMA, at least as long as the current rules are in place. EMA is too close in time to Eurovision. The winner has only one month to submit material. Imagine having to put together the most important performance of your life in just 15 days? We, on the other hand, had more time since we were internally selected—three months—and we utilized this extra time to design our pre-Eurovision campaign, which ultimately played a key role in our success. That's what left the biggest impression.
You managed to invest between ten and fifteen thousand euros of your own funds in this promotion. You have an extensive domestic touring career behind you. In October, you will fill our biggest venue, Stožice, for the first time, where you expect 12,000 people.
Kris: I've always considered it a privilege to have established a music career at such an early stage in our lives and to have quickly reached the point of financial self-sufficiency.
Bojan: It really worked out for us that right after we finished university, we began our professional lives as musicians.
Those who know you say that you are very disciplined, very organized. Bojan, your fellow classmates from Poljane Gymnasium in Ljubljana also say that even back then, you were absolutely convinced that you were going to make a breakthrough. Many people rolled their eyes at the thought, but you had a clear objective. You were networking with the right people, educating yourself, and Pavle Kavec taught you guitar...
Bojan: Yes, Pavle the legend. I knew during my time at Poljane Gymnasium that I wanted to be an artist. I hadn't fully decided whether it would be music or something else because I was also considering studying acting. But my thoughts were always centered around creating. I suppose that's more or less true for all of us. When Jure and Nace joined us, the first question was whether we were fully committed at 1000%, or if there was another one percent pulling us towards a "plan B," such as the directions we were trained in. No, there is no "Plan B" anymore. At some point, we made the decision to cut it off.
So, the high school students at Poljane Gymnasium may very well forget that you were once planning to be their sociology professor? We've also seen you in a few episodes of the series "Gospod profesor" ("Mr. Professor").
Bojan: I've given up on the professorship, but I still find acting very interesting. For once in my life, I would like to be in a film, playing a totally negative character. I would be mean as a snake. And it doesn't even have to be a Slovenian film; it can be from the Balkans.
Kris: I have to admit that I never thought of making a living from music, although I certainly saw it as an ideal. Even when I was deciding on my studies, I wavered between sociology and chemistry, and then preferred the latter because of its greater potential for employability. Well, later on, I did go into social sciences, for a master's degree in international relations.
Yet Kris, you were the one who had the ideal conditions to become a musician. You grew up playing guitar, because your father, Miha Guštin - Gušti, is the co-founder of "Big Foot Mama", one of the most popular Slovenian bands. Today, you are considered to be their successors.
Kris: I really had the ideal conditions to become a musician who does this for a living. Not only because of my dad, but my mum also worked for record labels for many years and has recently embarked on this path again, so I've been in touch with both sides of the music world, creatively and business-wise, since I was a little kid. But I didn't really start playing guitar until I was 14, 15. And nobody else among us is a trained musician either, except our drummer, Jure Maček.
Bojan: Yes, our Maček finished elementary music school, and he also played a lot, mostly with the "Logatec brass band".
Jan: Let's not forget his performances with the "Golaž brass band", and with the Cantabile Symphony Orchestra...
Jan, you are a mathematician. The link between music and mathematics was explored by Pythagoras after he listened to a blacksmith striking a hammer, and from that he developed the study of harmony.
Jan: Yeah, at the moment it's kind of like, if you have an out-of-tune guitar, you can just say you have a Pythagorean tuning (everyone bursts out laughing). To me, maths is relevant because it's the only thing in the existence of human understanding that you can really count on. It can be used to get definitive answers to at least some questions. I see it as something that gives you structure in your life.
Nace: I would have chosen to study veterinary medicine if I had gone to university, but I discovered very quickly that music was my passion. After high school I went out into the world, I played in a band on a cruise ship that more or less sailed the Baltic, somewhere between Russia, Finland and Sweden. You could say I've got a lot of musical mileage from playing abroad. But it's limited to German schlager and German rock. Our audiences were mostly German families (laughs).
You also have the most experience of performing in front of TV cameras, especially as a member of the in-house band of the TV show "V petek zvečer" ("Friday Night"), which gives airtime to more folk-music genres on TV Slovenia. Have you scrapped this "plan B" now as well?
Nace: Officially, I'm still a member of that band; maybe the managers are expecting me to come back to the show in the autumn. But it remains to be seen whether that will be possible. Most probably not.
Today, together with MRFY, you are considered the successors of our most popular rock or pop-rock guitar bands who managed to appeal to the masses, not only of "Big Foot Mama", but also, for example, "Siddharta" and "Dan D". Why hasn't there been a real breakthrough of new bands of this kind in the last few years? Were guitars considered to be outdated, were young people closer to electronica, trap, hip-hop, mixtures of genres?
Bojan: The music of "Siddharta" and "Big Foot Mama" was a kind of basic building block for me from the very beginning. These people have influenced me more than any other world-renowned musicians. So having them support us really means a lot to me. And the Špil Liga, where student bands have been entering for the last decade, has definitely been a very strong factor in the revival of the scene. MRFY are also from Novo mesto, which is considered a mini Slovenian capital of rock'n'roll, as many of the bands that have developed under the patronage of Tokac, the music producer and frontman of "Dan D", originate from there. At the same time, in last few years the Slovenian youth has become hungry for home-produced music of all genres, and this has stirred up a strong wave of creativity, which is being held in the hands of our own generation, as well as those a little younger and older than us. At this point, the whole spectrum of what we need, from clothes to design to photography, is being created by people our age, as well as those a little younger and older than us. Well, with one exception, of course, being our producer Žare Pak, but he's young at heart.
As you reach out to a wider audience, do you also feel the pressure to meet the ever-increasing expectations of both listeners and the music industry?
Jan: I feel that right now, more than ever, we can be confident and sure of what we are doing. We didn't even enter Eurovision with some deliberately made hit-like song to suit Eurovision ears, but we did a Joker Out song that could easily have been on our album last year. Our achievements so far prove that we are doing something right because people at home and abroad like it.
Kris: I also feel like we have more freedom to create now but also fewer inhibitions to ever go into more experimental waters in terms of music, outfits, visuals, or anything else.
Do you think that's what some people expect from you now?
Bojan: Musicians are often criticized for their style, genre, or sound. But such criticisms are absurd.
In particular, Slovenian rock or pop-rock has always been attacked in this respect for relying too often on tried-and-tested forms and less often, for example, on boldness, innovation.
Bojan: We've been on the scene long enough, and we know that the very concept of what Jokers do bothers some people. And that's why they keep pushing their idea that we don't make authentic music but rather some crap that we invented just to exist. So, they feel it would be good if we would stop doing that. These people want, or even demand, that Joker Out should stop being Joker Out. And we're happy that on the first and second album we were able to make music completely unburdened by expectations of how people would react to it. I think the second album is quite challenging in both its sonic elements and the overall meaning of the lyrics in certain songs. I'm sorry that not one of the critics mentioned "Plastika" ("Plastics") in their reviews. None of these intellectuals who have so much to say against our love songs thought that this could be a harbinger of a different, new direction.
This song was written in response to a study showing that the vast majority of teenage girls today want plastic surgery and other body modifications to meet their perverse beauty ideals.
Bojan: There's a lot of content that people don't want to see. On the other hand, I also don't understand why songs about love, which are in the vast majority in this culture at the moment, should be inferior to those about society. In fact, I hope to be able to sing about love for the rest of my life.
Kris: You will, you will sing "Umazane misli" ("Dirty Thoughts") for the rest of your life (laughs).
You addressed Europe with the words "We'll be dancing all night long, we'll love and play with each other as if there was no tomorrow like there's no tomorrow." You have stated several times that you are not a political band, but isn't that actually very political? What is more political than being able to smile and rejoice even in the worst of situations?
Bojan: I very much agree. I even think that if Tokac had sung our song, the message would have gotten through to a lot more people. But because we sang it, a lot of people didn't take it seriously.
The current Prime Minister, Robert Golob, after learning that the future coalition had brought down the government of Janez Janša, said, "Today people are dancing, I am waiting for you to start dancing too." Do you think that if we had had your song then, he would have said instead, "We'll be dancing all night long"? As some employees of RTV Slovenia did when the depoliticisation of their institution could begin?
Bojan: The song "Carpe Diem" is largely written with the idea of fighting back against the things that are happening today. The fact that we had Eurovision in a country that was not last year's winner, because the event could not be held there due to the war, is quite an indication of the troubled times we live in. On the other hand, our only defense as musicians is to spread positive energy among the people and send socially relevant messages. We cannot do more than that. We do not want to take up arms, and we won't. Our only weapons can be our songs.
Culture and art can certainly be weapons too, especially in situations where people are suffering. Do you think that's why Ukrainians supported you at Eurovision, both the audience and the jury? The country is in ruins because of the war, people are displaced, and there is no end in sight to the conflict. But your dancing until dawn has been noticed.
Bojan: I am a child of refugees from Bosnia and Herzegovina. My parents had to leave their home in Banja Luka because of the war. They came to Slovenia as refugees and stayed here. They had to rebuild their lives. In light of today's events, I can only conclude that the saying 'Historia magistra vitae est' (“History is the teacher of life”) is clearly not true. Because one day, when all the problems of this world are solved, I too will be able to afford the attitude of being opposed to all that is positive. But at the moment, that is not a possibility.
Your parents, Bojan, had to move because of the war, and your mother, Kris, moved from the Netherlands to Slovenia for love.
Bojan: That's a much nicer reason, isn't it?
Kris: Well, I also have a grandfather who fled Indonesia because of the civil war.
Migration flows have been huge in recent years, with thousands of people pouring into Europe, but they are often met with contempt and harsh treatment. Do you feel that your intimate experience of all this migration has also shaped your attitude towards all those who are seeking a better life?
Kris: Absolutely. In my home, this has always been a topic we have talked about. When I was still living with my parents, we often watched the TV program "Dnevnik" together, and whenever they showed a piece on migration, my mother would get very emotionally involved in the scenes on the screen. And that sticks with you. When you see a parent who can understand someone who had to leave home for completely different reasons and on the other side of the world, it naturally rubs off on you.
Bojan: Most of all, you feel the spectrum of pain associated with having to leave your home is much more than just having to leave a place. Only then do you realize that home is really a tangle of space, of people, of smells, of tastes, of everything surrounding you. Leaving all that behind is not the easiest thing to do. It is even harder to leave under duress, and the hardest to leave knowing that your home is in the process of being destroyed and that when and if you return one day, it will not feel like home anymore. The same people will not be there, the same smells will not be there. What has shaped your life will no longer exist.
Alongside wars and conflicts, another key reason why people from other parts of the world are moving to Europe in large numbers is climate change. Your generation is leading the fight to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, to live more sustainably. How important is this cause to you?
Kris: The fight for climate fairness is one of our few very clear common political positions. Here we are completely united and support all political choices towards sustainability. It is also very clear that this is an important issue not only for us but also for a large part of our audience. It was interesting to note that two years ago, at a rally for climate justice in Ljubljana, we saw a poster with the lyrics of one of our songs. We've summed up our own thoughts on the subject in the song "Novi val" ("New Wave)," which was written last year and is currently one of our most successful and important songs.
In that song, you say "The radio only plays lightnings and strikes', the newspaper says that we' ve lost our way. Today we'll sing and raise our glasses, we were born yesterday and have already been blamed for everything." And what are you guilty of? Probably not the fact that your generation faces precarious employment, that loans are hard to come by, and so are real estate, even rental properties?
Bojan: These are the facts of life lived by the "born yesterday" generation. They are the result of the accumulation of bad decisions over decades. These facts manifest themselves in reality as obstacles that reduce our ability to build the pillars of our independence and, as a consequence, are the reason for our failure to live up to societal expectations. In a world where laws have been written for decades in favor of a mega-massive littering of the planet, we are guilty of standing up for environmental justice instead of "doing something smarter and more serious with our lives," even though previous generations have themselves turned the (labour) market into a war zone of precarious employment. We fight day in and day out with the uncertainty of whether or not we will be employed tomorrow...
But even in this song, you sing and you raise your glasses.
Kris: This song and the Eurovision song "Carpe Diem" are actually very similar in spirit and message, except the second one addresses the listener in a dance guise and this one in a much more serious manner.
The song "Novi val" ("New Wave") has received a lot of attention because of the English version you released before the Eurovision, which you performed with the renowned British musician Elvis Costello. Your now ex-member Martin has a godfather who is a friend of Costello's, and in 2013 you sent him the song "Gola" ("Naked") to listen to. He did listen to it and suggested that you send him more songs. So last year you sent him "Novi val" ("New Wave").
Bojan: Yes, that was true, and when I sent him that song, I also asked him if he would be willing to re-arrange it in English. And he wrote back that he was up for it. Shortly after that, only about a week later, he sent me another email saying if we all agreed, he was ready to sing the song with us. Interestingly enough, he felt the song even before he understood what it was about. His first reaction after hearing the Slovenian version was that it was "a charming song that transcends the understanding of language". He recorded his vocals in New York, and we recorded them in Ljubljana. At the end of the song, we kept the chorus in Slovenian, at his request.
Costello has two Grammys, two Brit Awards, and was named one of the 100 greatest rock'n'roll musicians of all time by Rolling Stone magazine. What does his support mean to you?
Bojan: I can say without any reservation that even if I never wrote another song after this, I would forever be proud of what I have achieved. But it was this collaboration that gave us an indescribable amount of new energy to create. I am very proud of it. However, I must add that I felt the same pride when Tomi Meglič or Grega Skočir gave us words of encouragement. The moment when I first felt their sincere appreciation was a turning point for me, and since then I have existed quite differently as a musician. But of course, it is clear that Elvis Costello's encouraging words carry international weight. And that is something completely new for us. It's just a pity that we haven't been able to meet up yet because he was on tour in the US at the time of the recording of the song and later the video.
He will be touring Europe in the autumn, including Hamburg. You recorded the Eurovision song there in December.
Bojan: He honored us greatly then. He sent us the song "Hamburg Postcard", which he wrote especially for us.
Kris: Let's not forget something else. Our band has always described our music as "shagadelic rock'n'roll" (the Oxford English Dictionary defines shagadelic as "sexy, but in a psychedelic or retro way", A/N). We borrowed this term from "Austin Powers", but it was actually spoken by Elvis Costello, who played himself in that film. When we sent him our song "Gola" ("Naked") in 2019, we thought it would be a good idea to let him know that we also use the term "shagadelic rock'n'roll". And then he personally gave his permission to use it because he felt that that was what it was. To complete the circle, Elvis Costello is one of the original protagonists of the English New Wave, and we are now singing together about the New Wave. He is also from Liverpool, which hosted this year's Eurovision. Our collaboration was clearly written in the stars.
Costello, as a Liverpudlian, knew the most famous local musicians, The Beatles, very well and had worked with Paul McCartney. The Beatles are also among your role models, and this year you also visited the place where the Beatles began their musical journey for the first time. Do you now understand better why they remain the greatest?
Kris: For me, visiting Liverpool and the places that influenced the Beatles and their music gave me some perspective. We knew them through songs, like Penny Lane, for example, but in reality, it's much smaller and more 'plain' than we imagined. Liverpool is a beautiful city, but the suburbs where the Beatles lived are very ordinary working-class housing estates. One could say quite bland. Now I walk around Ljubljana with different eyes. I can imagine that one of our future songs could also feature an insignificant, less exposed street that made its mark on us...
Bojan: And this is where you can see very clearly why the Beatles are the Beatles. Because everybody has a Penny Lane in their life, an ordinary street where you meet a friend. Penny Lane is the most universal thing in the world
The English song "Novi val" ("New Wave") was covered by the BBC and ITV, and the British voted for you at Eurovision. Your music and performances have always been influenced by British pop. Is that one of the key places for you, besides the Balkans?
Bojan: I think our focus is on any place that is willing to accept us, but England has a special charm because we ourselves have been heavily influenced by British music. I'm not the ultimate "nomad," I dislike long flights and exotic destinations that can be unpredictable, so Europe is very dear to my heart. I would be very happy if we could establish ourselves as a European band that could travel a little bit around Scandinavia in the summer and then Dalmatia in the winter...
Kris: Or Spain, where we would eat tapas.
Is the interest in your band in the country also related to the fact that Bojan speaks Spanish?
Bojan: Yes, I ended up doing more interviews in Spanish than in English. The Spanish have also been very active because of our links with their Eurovision representative Blanca Paloma.
Kris: It's really amazing how you can charm a foreign audience by speaking their language. I understand it with the Spanish, as they are mostly less proficient in English, but I was surprised by the Dutch. Dutch is my mother tongue, of course, but I didn't expect that it would matter because in the last few years I have noticed that in Amsterdam, almost only English is spoken on the street. Even the oldest market vendor speaks perfect English. But they were very enthusiastic. On streaming platforms, the Netherlands is one of our top 10 countries.
You mentioned earlier that your fans are now learning Slovenian. What about your future - will it be written in English?
Bojan: The next album will almost certainly have songs in English, Slovenian, and Serbian, but it's very possible that there will also be some in French or Spanish.
What about Finnish? At Eurovision, the most talked-about thing was your friendship with the Finnish representative Käärijä, who came in second place. When you, Bojan, sang his song, he praised you, saying it was "better than the original".
Bojan: We haven't talked about a musical collaboration yet, but I was a guest at his concert in Helsinki in June, and we would be very happy to have him at our concerts. Unfortunately, that won't happen in Stožice because he has a big concert on the same day.
Now that it is clear that your international ambitions are growing exponentially, what is the ultimate goal where you would say, well, now we have made it?
Kris: Even before we had international ambitions on the level we have today, we often talked about how performing on the main stage of the Hungarian festival "Sziget" would be a testament to the fact that we have achieved something in our lives. Do you remember?
Bojan: How European of us, right? (laughs)
And - have they called you yet?
Jan: Not yet, but we are already learning Hungarian just in case (laughs).
Kris: And we were just wondering why we shouldn't just announce a concert at Wembley Stadium in London in 2030.
Bojan: Yeah, because if we started selling tickets now, we might even be able to sell them by then. (Everyone bursts out laughing because the stadium seats 90,000).
