Tvfantic87

She/her I’m just crazy about Tv particularly the Bear 27

[freedelusionshere]

whatever you need, chef - Chapter 1 - freedelusionshere - The Bear (TV 2022) [Archive of Our Own]

Made a fic of my post here about Syd introducing Carmy as her "friend" to her family members.

[whenmemorydies]

Baby’s breath, tulips and chrysanthemums

I know some folks aren’t into analysing subtext, which is fair enough. But it’s established that The Bear uses subtext and hidden messages to convey meaning. The legerdemain of it all is officially part of the show’s communication. The Bear’s episodes are also fairly short and are not many in number which means every frame, every bit of writing has a purpose (or multiple purposes). There’s not really time for filler (we can argue about the “bad trades” D*sney made - as noted by @freedelusionshere - with excessive Cl@ire and Fak scenes later lol).

You can still watch The Bear without looking at its subtext. It’s been written, shot, costumed and recorded in such a way that it’s perfectly possible to do that and still enjoy the show (a remarkable filmmaking feat imo). But I love deep analysis and am personally wired for it, so all the subtext is very satisfying for me as a viewer.

Expecting subtext is how I approach watching every episode and it’s in questioning why a bit of dialogue has been used or why a shot was set up a certain way etc, that the show’s subtext becomes clearer to me. Others might have different approaches for their watches (if you do, please share! I’m always keen to learn how others approach their analyses!).

So with that context, I reckon 5x08’s flower chat between Richie and The Bear’s florist is actually another juicy, subtextual treasure chest! Because why else would Storer spend precious minutes of the final episode of his show talking about flowers?Let’s get into it, shall we…

Divine light

I wrote here about the code lighting for love used in 5x08. That lighting is directly referenced by Richie and the florist to reinforce its purpose in the episode.

Recall the below scene in 5x08 where Richie and the florist are talking arrangements for The Bear’s dining room. The florist tells Richie that the selling point of delicate baby’s breath flowers’ is their airiness. Richie replies:

Yeah, they let the light pass through them.

Which is exactly what is happening in each of these shots of romantically-linked couples in 5x08:

The light is passing through Jess and Richie, through Nat and Pete, and through Syd and Carmy as they find and see each other anew, through the lens of deep love and care.

I also don’t think it’s a surprise that the show has Richie and the florist talking about baby’s breath to make this point, as these flowers are also meant to symbolise everlasting love. And truly, the selling point of The Bear to its fandom, particularly to Sydcarmies, has been its incredible heart, its ability to show that there is light that resides in all of us and crucially, how deep love allows you to see that light in others (you know...the kind of deep love that allows you to see the "You are considerate. You...You allow yourself to feel things, right? You allow yourself to care. You are a natural leader and teacher. And you're doing all this stuff for every right fucking reason. And- And I get it. This is a great opportunity, right? And its for a lot of fucking money and you can hire whoever the fuck you want, right? But this place, right now, this is starting to gel. It is starting to feel alive, right? And you have seven people in this building who will jump in front of a fucking train for you right now. And I'm gonna do everything I can to set you up for success but any chance of any kind of good in this building, it started when you walked in. And any possibility of it surviving? It’s with you." of it all).

Sigh.

I see you and commend you, writers’ room!

But the subtextual insights from the florist aren’t done yet! She also tells us that baby’s breath are perfect for The Bear/The Bear because,

You don't want a crowded... [...] You don’t want anything taking away from that beautiful food you put here.

On the dialogue's surface, the florist is clearly talking about the floral arrangements not taking away from the food served at The Bear. But subtextually, we, as the audience, have been fed many things in the course of The Bear, including healthy serves of romance, sex and love. And its in relation to these things that the florist gives us more insights; specifically she helps us understand what Chris Storer and the other writers may have been intending for how romance, sex and love are portrayed in this story.

Choosing to depict romantic relationships where the light ultimately shines through the couples, where each person sees - and is seen by - their partner, where they are accepted in their wholeness unconditionally - as beautiful, ugly, messy, joyful and scared as each of them can be - is as close to the divine that many of us will ever come to experience in this life. So why would you crowd that with anything else (like Claire or Francine-shaped subplots, for example)?

It really felt like this subtext was telling us that at least part of the reason why Chris Storer decided to set 7/8 episodes of S5 across one day was cos that framework made it very easy to cut the chaff from the show and focus on the real food: the relationships that the creators and the fandom actually give a fuck about, the most important of which is Sydcarmy.

Explicit Sydcarmy endgame (or lack thereof)

So what does the flower chat have to tell us about that most important relationship? A lot actually.

After discussing baby's breath, Richie goes onto ask the florist about chrysanthemums.

The florist then tells Richie that he can call chrysanthemums "mum" for short. In fact, what she says is,

You can just say "mum".

This is important because "mum" is short form for this type of flower. Its also used to mean "silence" as in "keep mum" or "mum's the word".

If these flowers are being used to subtextually convey meaning to the audience about romance, sex and love, the florist here is telling Chris Storer's director-avatar (as has been theorised by @currymanganese and @thoughtfulchaos773 here and here) to say mum - say nothing.

In fact she even goes so far as to tell him that overt romance of the kind that might be seen when you include two lips (ie. the body parts you need for an onscreen romantic kiss - a kiss that many Sydcarmies were devo didn’t happen in S5) in your show isn't a bad idea. Of course, she spells "two lips" differently to those of us looking at subtext:

You know, the tulips aren't bad either, but the mums...

She then tells Richie, its the mums that hold up:

Mums...And they hold up well too.

Subtextually what this means is that keeping silent - keeping mum - on whether romantic Sydcarmy is endgame is a strategic move by Storer. One - rightly or wrongly - he feels will give this show longevity and allow it to hold up over the years. I can't predict the future but I do know that this show - which uses subtext as part of its communication in the same way it uses lighting, costuming, dialogue and acting - has made it VERY obvious via subtext that Sydcarmy was always intended to be endgame. So much so that we didn’t need a kiss featuring tulips two lips to confirm it. And so, as @turbulenthandholding has said repeatedly on here, how can this be anything other than what it is?

I should also note that right after the florist-Richie scene, we get a whole sequence of shots of Richie and Jess discussing an engagement at the The Bear, including Richie looking for a wedding box and Carmy seemingly down on one knee offering Syd a ring two Michelin stars as hers and hers alone. @sublimepeachtriumph has written meta about how these scenes have been set up as a proposal from Carmy to Syd here. So more romance, sex and love is undoubtedly on the cards for these two.

I will say, if anything, Chris Storer saying mum has made this brilliant, brilliant show infinitely rewatchable (imho) and if that isn't indicative of a television show holding up well, I don't know what is.

[tvfantic87]

@whenmemorydies your analysis is always top notch!!! One of my top Bear/Sydcarmy analyst in this whole entire fandom. Your deep insights show my deep appreciation of the show.

[freedelusionshere]

Carmy is definitely a sensual person you can tell by how it comes out in his art and how he plates food.

He didn’t draw Claire as sexy, though, when he was younger. Which was refreshing to me? Carmy isn’t interested in being gross about young women his own age he’s interested in wondering what Claire’s interiority is like.

Now, he drew erotic food drawings his whole life. As Donna flips through those notebooks in S5 it’s evident if you care just to dig even just a tiny bit deeper. He was thinking about sex at that point and projecting his feelings onto food.

We also see the same kind of sublimation in the drawings he makes for Syd of the chaos menu to make up for spending time with Claire.

In fact, it’s implied Syd reactivates this sensual part of him, not Claire. The show tells us Claire and Carmy’s relationship was empty and unsatisfying with both of them being fake (not honest/real) the whole time.

Meanwhile, Carmy is buying and giving Syd lavish presents based on her notebook she left behind, and making plates of food based on her outfits with different sauces trying to futilely find ways to impress her based on his past chef career.

Syd also dreams of food in the middle of the night (raspberries) and has an erotic panic dream by S4. Syd runs away from love (because it scares her, she associates it with loss and feeling alone like her dad is) and Carmy, meanwhile, is waiting on his second, third, fourth chance with her to get it right.

Which he finally does by treating her like a partner and a friend.

I don’t think all of this paints Carmy in a bad light for dating Claire, but it was never a serious relationship and Syd wasn’t going to let him get close to her right away.

It does get bad when he lets Syd influence him to call Claire his girlfriend just because he doesn’t want Syd to think he’s shitty.

Carmy tried it with Claire thinking that maybe sex and her knowing things about him would be enough for him to form a bond with her and it doesn’t work. He’s thinking of Syd when he’s with Claire.

Claire makes him feel like he’s on fire because he was feeling used and later admits he was using her, too, by trying to force himself to love her instead of being himself. People do this all the time IRL.

Which is different than just using someone for casual sex to me.

It’s a very interesting and different perspective on masculine sexuality.

And yes, he most certainly fucks up along the way by being competitive with Syd and not treating her like a partner and thinking he is the one that can get the stars.

Because that doesn’t build trust and intimacy. But he gets there.

Part of the reason he does is that Syd doesn’t compromise and he watches her every move in the restaurant.

She wants to see he’s going to put in the work first before she trusts him. She was smart and right to do it, too.

She knew he was asking her out on the Kasama date and asking her questions about her family to get to know her.

She was more concerned what the repercussions would be to her having him as a long-term partner to chase her dream and if he would mess that up for her.

He hasn’t met her dad by the end of S5 because he’s only just earned his way into her arms and his arms as a safe landing place for her.

But he’s clearly devoted to her at this point and they love each other.

Anyway, I think it’s pretty great.

[raainstorms]

[tvfantic87]

I mean…

[raainstorms]

[freedelusionshere]

Salsa di San Bernardo

Salsa di San Bernardo - Chapter 1 - freedelusionshere - The Bear (TV 2022) [Archive of Our Own]

A fic inspired by tumblr metas and this post about the return of the cleaver by @sublimepeachtriumph

[tvfantic87]

Love this!!!

[sublimepeachtriumph]

Another Dimension to the Red Color Theory

I think one of the reasons they invited Tom Skillig as a guest star is to be able to bring up Doppler radar. Richie asks Skillig if he can buy a Doppler and after he leaves, the (supposed) Star Man asks Skillig, "What's Doppler?"

That's to clue us in to the significance of Doppler--ostensibly to do with weather but also used in navigation (as it is in relation to Star Man and stars) actually relevant in this context as having to do with celestial bodies. In space, the Doppler effect is measured through redshift; objects receding away from the observer are redshifted. So, taking that back to Red Flag, she is receding away from the narrative. As @turbulenthandholding noted in their meta, the final scene of Carmy talking to Red Flag is of facing backwards from the camera as if facing his past.

coachbeards

See above from Season 2 such an underrated shot of DD leaving after talking to Pete. I marvel at the crew managing to capture all the lights turned red at the exact moment she turns the corner. Her red tipped nails are worn only by Red Flag. No other woman on the show has that kind of manicure and we are shown Syd's nails are unvarnished, kept pared. When we have a flashback episode of Mikey's downward spiral, he is donning a red beanie as he talks to a redheaded stranger who cannot arrest his spiral. It's not only that red is bad or signifies stuckness; red is danger and signals leaving everyone behind.

cruisified

Then there is the way DD's exiting foreshadows Red Flag's later the same night---both women struggle (one successfully, one not) to let Friends and Family night be about Carmy's success instead of their own need for constant attention. Chris Witaske's interview about his scene with Jamie Lee Curtis has the astute observation which could apply as well to Red Flag as it does to Donna: "She's an addict who plays the victim...They blame everybody else but themselves for everything." We see twice how Red Flag arranges her face to cry (for Richie in Season 2 and to emotionally blackmail Carmy in Season 4). We never hear her express guilt over nearly killing a young girl or abandoning Carmy during his brush with hypothermia. She's pictured against sirens (in the scene she turns back to grab another drag from Carmy's cigarette) and aurally, sirens may be heard when she is mentioned in Syd and Carmy's phone call.

thoughtfulchaos773

In Season 5 when DD enters the restaurant and asks Pete about Sydcarmy directly, her nails are green. Her jacket has shades of green and red.

riickgrimes

Going back to Doppler, redshifting is not counterbalanced by greenshifting. Instead, if redshifted stars recede from the observer, blue-shifted stars are moving closer towards the observer. Which makes sense because, according to Carmy, the most memorable shift ("the most fun" he ever had) is the night all the Bear family was dressed in blue Berf shirts. These are the stars aligning, Syd and Carmy coming together and his place at the Bear, being Syd's right hand man, appearing in sharp focus for Carmy. He's not running away (redshift); he's getting closer to the people, especially Syd, who help him grow and who he can help grow in a cosmic tangle that gives his heretofore tragic life a new, energized, hopeful direction.

[tvfantic87]

Shoutout to @sublimepeachtriumph for their fantastic meta about Carm proposing to Syd

Enjoy!!

Shoutout to @turbulenthandholding for introducing us to this beautiful song (Hairshirt by R.E.M.)

I love Sydcarmy so much and how real they are.

This is one of the hardest edits I made but the result is worth it.

[theroyalmisfitmess]

Second loves can be just as good, maybe even better, than first loves

I think it’s been talked about before about how the other (romantic) relationships in The Bear mirror SydCarmy. JessRichie’s parallels move me the most, to be more specific, because along with SydCarmy, treat the “second/next love” concept so kindly.

Oftentimes, the media gets obsessed with the idea of an all-consuming first or previous love that is always harsh on what comes after. With SydCarmy and JessRichie, however, this notion is broken. We don’t see Syd or Jess reduced to a second choice. Instead, we see them as a renewed first choice. They aren’t backups of Claire and Tiff. They are their own persons who love Carmy and Richie differently.

Let this be a beautiful reminder that first is not always the best. Because sometimes, your first love is not the one who wholeheartedly understands you, nor is always going to be the love of your life.

[freedelusionshere]

Yes! I love this.

Also we see Tina and David who are supportive and stick by each other as the opening bookend to S5.

It tells us that this is all only going to work out if you have a partner that truly supports you. And S5 ends with that happening.

Tina tells Carmy in S4 her and David had been fighting, but her advice is to not go to sleep in anger, and then Carmy and Syd show up in the kitchen in the first episode of S5, and they have talked through things from the night before.

It appears that Carmy took Tina’s advice after fraught way Goodbye ended in S4! They’re smiling at each other in Soda and Carmy is saying he wants to be useful to Syd. They just hadn’t figured out to tell the restaurant fam what they’d agreed to, but they took that step.

It ends with Syd and the restaurant fam all being at Eva’s birthday party and Carmy looking at Syd full of joy, and Richie leaving to explore this new relationship with Jess.

[tvfantic87]

[freedelusionshere]

The Bear and The Odyssey

I've been listening to the intro to the audiobook that's narrated by Claire Danes. It's really fascinating, it goes into the differences between The Odyssey and the Iliad and focuses a lot on how the female characters in particular are portrayed, and how it was possibly a commentary on the roles of women in that culture and how the Odyssey actually portrays women's thoughts and feelings (I know, the bar is low here) from a culture where we actually know very little about the lives of women.

Several of the ideas made me think of narrative and characterization similarities between this work and The Bear, and in particular Carmy and Syd's relationship, and I wonder if The Bear is a condensed and metaphorical retelling of this story? This is gonna be long, so thanks in advance if you're intrigued enough to get through this.

Odysseus leaves home to fight in the Trojan War (Empire). He wins the war but loses himself. He spends a long time away from home, eventually returning to reclaim his family's legacy (his estate/the restaurant). He finds that a bunch of rivals have moved into his house and have competing interests and are bothering his wife ("Pleasure to meet you sweetheart."). He's in disguise, even though he's famous ("I know who you are.") and he is emotionally distraught at what he finds when he returns home. And even though he's highly skilled and regarded as a hero, he's also aggressive and bombastic and a lot of people don't like him.

His wife Penelope is an equal and a mirror to him in terms of intellect and capability and manages to push away other suitors until her husband finally reveals who he really is to her. She is next-level patient and wise but is at times skeptical about him, and kind of stonewalls him. Penelope, after all, has been the one running the estate the entire time and keeping the rivals at bay. Penelope gets underplayed by scholars while she's a central figure to the story (hmm who else gets this shit treatment by a lot of fans?). Odysseus would literally have nothing without her.

Odysseus is also helped along the entire time by the goddess Athena, who admires him because they are similar as well; he is talented and clever like she is. Athena is also the goddess of war, so they worked in the same industry. Incidentally, she's also the goddess of weavers, which Penelope is extremely skilled at, connecting them in the narrative. Syd is a combination of both Penelope and Athena, who both in turn mirror Odysseus. The side of Syd Carmy really wants to know and have intimacy with versus the distant goddess, although Athena is almost always "with" Odysseus throughout his entire journey and speaks to him and reassures him. Just like Our Mother of Victory (divine guidance/protector), who is also associated with Syd in the narrative.

Odysseus has to go through many trials in order to get back home. He goes through periods of despair and even gets lured away and offered immortality (eternal youth/high school) by Calypso, who tries to make him permanently stuck and prevent him from returning to his wife and home. Claire. (Circe is also in the poem in a similar role to Calypso, to distract Odysseus from returning home, and she has potions and herbs she uses to do it.)

The rivals wanting to move in and take over his property is also reminiscent of Cicero almost from Day 1 wanting to sell The Bear and telling Carmy he now owes him the money he loaned Mikey (shady, where is it written down, LOL). Cicero also comes with the constant undercurrent of possible physical violence and attempting to manipulate or pull strings/leverage people in the background, but ultimately, he wants the restaurant to cash out and probably needs the money now. Carmy essentially tricking/guilting him into giving him even more money than he gave Mikey is an extremely Odysseus move, very much like him tricking Polyphemus the violent cyclops, who has a cave filled with gold and tries to trap Odysseus and his crew there.

The Bear being like the ship and the crew are like the sailors that accompany Odysseus while he tries to find his way back home. Carmy tells Syd she is the captain now in S2. Carmy "goes away"/regresses in S3, leaving Syd to be poached by rival Shapiro who tries to lure her and bring her to his restaurant, taking her from her family, and attempting to persuade her that he will give her everything materially Carmy has not, when really, she is essential to the success of The Bear and it will break up their found family.

Odysseus's father, according to some accounts, was the famous boulder rolling Sisyphus. Who is similar to both the MIA Berzatto dad and Mikey and their futility. His mother was Anticlea, who dies before Odysseus returns home, and he travels to the underworld (the past/death/grief) to speak with the ghost of his mother, who tells him how she grieved herself to death when he was away (Donna resents Carmy leaving home) and issues him a warning about losing his family (family/family vs work family). The other man who is identified as his father is Laertes (some think Anticlea married him after having a child with Sisyphus), who stays away the entire time while Odysseus is gone and only returns after Odysseus has gotten rid of all his rivals. Anticlea also served Artemis in her youth, goddess of the hunt. Donna is associated with leopards in the show, who are opportunistic hunters.

Richie as the swineherd Eumaeus, whose loyalty to Odysseus is tested and represents hospitality, one of the greatest virtues in ancient Greece. Richie's kind of a pig when we first meet him, but like Richie, Eumaeus helps Odysseus reclaim his birthright. Through his loyalty to Carmy, Richie wears suits now and wants to help him reconnect with his wife, Syd, who he considers to be like family. (Eumaeus is also the first person Odysseus meets when he finally returns home.)

The Faks are a stand-in for a Greek Chorus (the Odyssey is an epic poem that was performed). They provide insights and foreshadowing to what is happening during the performance. Neil in particular foreshadows a lot of what will happen and what the audience thinks about the characters, even when it's not true or applied to the wrong person. For example, Neil telling Claire Carmy loves her more than himself, which Claire tells us (the audience) immediately this is obviously not true. Neil then assigns sexist tropes onto their relationship, about Carmy needing to be taken care of by a woman (because his mom was bad at it) and that he'll in turn protect Claire with his "strong arms". This does have a ring of truth, though, because Carmy does love Syd and wants to protect her and take care of her. Syd is the one who has been holding Carmy up with her "strong arms" (that are tired now, LOL) like Penelope held things down for Odysseus waiting for him to finally show up for her.

Poseidon, the god of the Ocean, is Odysseus' chief rival in preventing him from coming home. Water is often featured symbolically in The Bear, with both Syd and Carmy shown staring contemplatively at Lake Michigan. Waiting for their lover to come back home from the war? Other moments show water used in a way to represent cleansing, washing. Odysseus was shipwrecked multiple times on his journey home. Trains are vessels often shown in The Bear, the same way ships and shipwrecks appear in the Odyssey, with Odysseus repeating the same kinds of mistakes multiple times (I need a second chance, a third chance, a fourth chance).

Lastly, the "siren call" of the Michelin Star, depicted in Forever with all the famous chefs cheerfully commiserating about soldiering along at their jobs, similar to Odysseus journeying to the underworld and speaking with the dead. Offering food and drink before meeting with the dead. How he risks eventually sharing in their fate unless he changes his ways and returns "home".

[freedelusionshere]

Just reposting this in light of S5 and the flooding of the restaurant bearing a resemblance to Poseidon as the unseen antagonist in The Odyssey. The references to water all along as a journey which culminates in The Bear flooding, forcing everything to the surface.

Some others:

Carmy being reunited with his mother who reviews his “exploits” as a famous chef.

Syd telling Carmy that hidden retelling of eating the blood orange hamachi being like Penelope telling Odyssey that she knew who he was all along once he returns home as a beggar now.

Carmy telling Claire/Calypso he tried to force himself to love her but he couldn’t (all he thinks of is his beloved wife instead).

Syd is Athena (our Mother of Victory) and Penelope in one. At the heart of the story and also Syd is associated with her own mother her mother becomes a part of The Bear’s legacy through her family meal that is later served to all the guests at the feast.

Richie who is going to help them now is Telemachus who is sent away at the end to find himself. He’s concerned with hospitality and reputation the whole time. He’s also like their kid who has abandonment issues and beefs with his mom and dad at different points.

Syd, like Penelope, had the most suitors in the show. Carmy, Marcus, Luca, and Shapiro were all wanting her attention.

Cicero still has a myopic view and is concerned about money and “air rights” above everything else and represents the pov of The Mouse House/Poseidon.

The Trojan horse of the show as a whole with Syd being The Bear; and the scorched earth imagery shown in S5 about renewal and rebirth, and the sacking of Troy, but it’s all done in reverse here, to show that trust is built by collaborating and supporting one another, not extraction and empire building.

I think the character and plot beats aligning are pretty strong here.

Might do a rewatch with this in mind.

[whenmemorydies]

Syd protects her heart. She also doesn’t want to be a burden. We’ve discussed here how she’s likely a high functioning and high masking person in high functioning-survival mode.

Syd holds her deepest feelings and emotions close.

So of course she’s never told anyone, not even Carmy, exactly how much a certain chef means to her.

Syd’s lie in 5x04 about the grapefruit scallop dish was done on purpose, just like her lie in 1x01 about coming to The Beef every Sunday with her dad. Both lies serve the same function: to obscure her naked heart just enough from view of the one person she wants most to see it, to see her.

She does this so that she can withdraw and protect herself if needed.

It didn’t make sense for us to get the full blood orange hamachi reveal in S5 bc of how rushed the context of that season was. But we got a very natural beginning to that conversation.

A conversation where, maybe, eventually, Carmy will pull Syd up after a particularly busy future service. He’ll touch her back and ask if they can talk in the office. She’ll say sure and follow him, completely unaware, looking down at the draft menu on her clipboard while she walks. He’ll ask her to sit down and he’ll sit across from her, gently taking the clipboard from her hands and setting it on the table.

Carmy will ask Syd if he was working at Empire when she had her first-best bite. She’ll say yes, her eyes wide and dark. Carmy will tell her they never served grapefruit and scallop while he was there. Syd will smile tight and say something like, it might have been something similar. There was citrus and the protein was a fish.

(She knows exactly what the dish was but he’s calling her out and she still has too much pride to admit to lying, because what good reason can she give for doing so, other than protecting her heart?)

She takes out her phone and shows him the photo she took of the dish that stole her breath away. She’ll say oh, I remember now. It was blood orange and paupiette of hamachi. Best meal of my life.

And she’ll look up to see Carmy’s eyes glazed and smiling. A tear might escape his right eye.

Carm? What’s the matter?

Nothing. I’m good. I’m good. We- We’re good.

Because of course they are. Syd has shown him her heart and she has seen his. And neither of them is going anywhere.

[tvfantic87]

[freedelusionshere]

Carmy admitting out loud in a job interview at a large Chicago architecture firm that he was using other people as tools to get something for himself means he’s already flubbed the interview.

He tries to downplay his success as a chef almost immediately.

But let’s remember! He got this interview because Stevie probably sold him this way (just like Michelle did to get him a spot at yet another super-famous chef’s restaurant, Daniel Boulud), and was telling him to lean into his weirdness and family stuff to hype him up for the interview.

Think back to when the foodie tourists are allowed into the kitchen during service in S5 by Richie to turn tables, Syd makes Carmy talk to the guests and revisit all those places he’s worked at before. Carmy then pulls in Luca, who also worked at Ever and now works in Copenhagen and is planning on going right back there.

Marcus had just recently received a major culinary award, btw.

Syd has also just been awarded two stars at this point (not Carmy, he only ever retained them), but in the interview Sue mentions eating at Ever and perks up immediately when Carmy says he worked there.

Sue goes on about the experience she had and the artistry of the dishes at Ever. I think, probably knowing he worked there from his resume and hoping that this weird interview will now turn back to design and making carefully curated “experiences” for mostly rich people, which is still what the architecture industry mostly revolves around.

But, Ever is closed now in The Bear’s world, and that’s not what Carmy really wants to talk about.

He leans into what Stevie suggested and starts talking about his family, and that he loved the colors of the food, when, we’ve just seen very clearly, that while Carmy has been drawing food (very erotically, btw) in his books since he dedicated his whole life to fine dining, he has really been learning techniques mostly and balancing flavors in the French culinary tradition (lots of cream-based sauces), and drawing what he sees other chefs make.

His family’s cooking isn’t informed by color, either; it’s inspired by chaos.

When it comes to color, and Carmy being inspired, it has alway been looking at Syd directly for inspiration related to this. Her scarves are the only bright colors in the restaurant. Her outfit at the wedding also inspires him making sauces for the lamb dish he wants to present to her.

Even his drawings about Claire are colorful, but he doesn’t even know her or spend time with her and when he finally does he can’t force himself to love her.

So, he’s lying during the interview to Sue. He’s lying the same way Syd did on the first day she showed up about going to The Beef as a kid.

Carmy is talking about Syd as his real inspiration; not his love for design. Which is the same way Syd is talking about Carmy when she brings up the best dish she ever ate. She doesn’t mean the dish, she means she felt inspired.

Carmy wears a suit and tie to the interview, which we only see him do at Mikey’s funeral (it could even be the same suit?). There’s a flashback scene where he’s sitting in the car outside the funeral and it looks like he’d just taken off his tie to me.

He doesn’t wear a tie to the Ever funeral dinner, either, and he doesn’t wear a suit he wears mismatched separates that don’t even fit well.

And when he goes to the architecture job interview, he can’t hide the tattoos on his hands, but he doesn’t feel comfortable with the tie around his neck.

The interview feels like the reverse of his expectations when he shows up in S1, and he looks the part of “cool” “bad boy” chefs we’ve all seen (like they even showed an image of Bradley Cooper at Ever and he played Anthony Bourdain).

Carmy brought all his notebooks and his culinary books and awards into The Beef in S1. Because we see Marcus checking them out.

But Marcus only really does that once Syd shows up and confirms that Carmy is “the real deal”. Marcus didn’t trust Carmy to be any different until Syd shows up.

Marcus will later tell Carmy, “Take us there, bear.” To me, it was obviously making fun of the movie The Blind Side and audience expectations that Carmy was “the guy” when it was always going to be Syd, and that reference comes up again in S5, Syd brings it up.

The firm Carmy goes to interview at is in a hi-rise in Chicago. That means it’s very likely a major corporate office or HQ or hub for that firm.

After COVID, most architecture firms allowed staff to work from home, but it created a crisis in the real estate industry (domino effect in banking/investment and insurance industries). They had all this unoccupied real estate that was empty, and wanted people to get back into offices as fast as possible.

The Bear was one of the few shows that didn’t ignore the impact of COVID on the restaurant industry and openly talked about it. They were expected to keep feeding people (Chi-Chi brings this up), but the corporate model changed as whole, and the small businesses who couldn’t pivot fast went out of business. They comment on this inside the show and also with the delivery bot.

Carmy fails his interview the moment he describes how struggling together in this one service, when everything seemed so horrible, but he loves these people so much because they grow together.

The architecture industry is tied to the same kind of historical extraction and exploitation as the culinary industry.

Both pre-exist the entertainment industry, but they were both definitely forms of entertainment and patronage mostly accessible to wealthy white families in the West who accumulated wealth through imperialist wars and the slave trade.

Syd’s scallop dish always had her flavors and Carmy didn’t mess with that, but she breaks it down even further to something you could make with just three ingredients that aren’t expensive. Same with the cola ribs (but they take time and thinking about family).

Just like the lamb Tonnato dish Carmy made for Syd was a tin of anchovies and a rack of lamb stretched further. Just like how Syd elevated the Hamburger Helper in Worms.

Carmy appears to go back to The Bear. He texts his dead brother Mikey everything is “good”. Carmy said Syd was the “good” that walked in the door and changed everything.

And Syd said during the service that we’re not doing this “the Berzatto way” without saying those words, but that’s what happened and that’s what she did.

She also told Donna to her face that’s what she would accomplish.

And Richie asks Syd what happens the next day (and basically the one after) and she says we keep doing THIS.

[bootlegramdomneess]

Donna and change

I've seen a lot of pitchfork and torches concerning Donna's arc and I want to chat about it....

I think the show isn’t asking has donna earned forgiveness or redemption, it’s asking can a person who has caused profound harm become honest abou ti? Which are different questions.  Donna’s arc in season 4 and especially in her conversation with her children doesn’t erase decades of emotional abuse. Her children still carry the consequences.

Carmy has panic attacks, Natalie lives in a constant state of hypervigilance, mikey’s dead, and Richie, even though he’s not her bio child was shaped by that chaotic family system as well.  The trauma remains.

I think what does change Is Donna. I think for the first time, she stops defending herself. People with severe emotional dysregulation, whether related to a borderline personality disorder, substance use, trauma etc often spend years trapped in shame. Shame can paradoxically make accountability harder because admitting wrongdoing feels mentally traumatic and impossible. Instead, people rationalize, deny, blame, or make themselves the victim.  Which, if you’ve watched since fishes…classic Donna.

As the show progresses, Donna starts to do something that is very difficult. She starts to tolerate the shame. She acknowledges that she hurt her children without demanding that they make her feel better, which is a significant shift in the stages of change. If we remember season 4 where she apologized for the harm she caused Carmen. The silence between them was proof of that change. If we compare it to the fishes episode where she was blaming and accusing Carmy of not loving her etc.

I’ve worked with a lot of people in recovery. I’ve worked with a lot of donnas and even adult children of someone like donna.  Recovery is measured by whether the person has accepted responsibility with excuses. Allowed other people to be angry. Respected boundaries. Grieved the harm they had caused. Chose different behaviors moving forward.

Those are simply the markers of change, not proof that damage is undone.

We extend grace to Carmy because we’ve watched his internal suffering. We know why he shuts people out. We understand his anxiety. His perfectionism. His trauma. Yet Carmy also hurt people repeatedly.

So, the same question would apply: does Carmy deserve redemption? I mean the answer is obvious but it’s easier to say yes because carmy’s pain is witnessed from the inside while we’ve mostly experienced Donna through her children’s perspective. Empathy naturally follows pov. We get Carmy’s nervous system because the camera lives with him. We don’t spend nearly as much time inside Donna’s head.

That doesn’t mean Donna deserves automatic forgiveness. Forgiveness belongs entirely to her children, and they may never choose it. Reconciliation isn’t owed to someone simply because they’ve changed. But redemption, in the moral sense, isn’t something another person grants. It’s something a person pursues through sustained accountability.

That’s why I don’t see Donna as redeemed, so much as beginning redemption. She’s finlally walking the path rather than asking everyone else to pretend nothing happened.

I think the bear has resisted simplistic, moral categories. It doesn’t divide characters into good or bad people instead, it asks how trauma moves through families. Donna passed her pain to her children. Carmy, in turn, begins passing his pain to the people who love and work with him. The cycle only breaks when someone becomes willing to look honestly at themselves.

Donna starts doing that and Carmy is learning to do that. Neither one of them is finished. This seems more about accountability, which is where real healing begins.

[yannadoesart]

I was always gonna be mad if they redeemed Donna as an abusive parent in a show based on depicting the consequences of abuse. But I’m especially mad that they redeemed her in a show where David Field exists. What transpired in the confrontation between Carmen and Fields was super important to me cause that’s the reality of people who have been abused; the victim has to find healing on their own regardless of whether the abuser is ever gonna acknowledge or comprehend the effect of their actions. Carmy, like many victims, justified the abuse he went through with excuses provided by the abuser himself: ‘I made you the best ’; ‘you were a worthless piece of shit, and you needed me’

Carmy wouldn’t have accepted that treatment from Fields (or he wouldn’t have processed it and justified it the way he did) if he hadn’t been abused by Donna first, which on its own would have made for a more cathartic final if Carmen had decided to cut ties with Donna, at least for a while. To showcase his capacity to cut ties with the systems that oppressed him from the beginning, to acknowledge the core of the wound inside of him. Instead, getting an apology from Donna was apparently enough for Carmen to open himself up to enjoying life again. It really didn’t; Syd made that happen for him even before he got to talk to Donna.

And the show tries to give you the idea that Donna understands she did bad things, that she acknowledged it the way Fields never did. And I think what they implied here is that Donna deserves a chance at redemption cause she knows what she did was wrong. Or that she is more likely to change cause she understands what she did.

Full stop, no. Nobody “deserves” anything; you are either given grace or not. That depends solely on the people you hurt. Carmen and Nat had the total right to cut Donna just while they recover from the things she put them through; they don’t have a responsibility to care for or heal her just cause she is their mom. That’s literally the opposite of reality; they don’t own her shit. Even if she tries to do right by them now, even if she loves them, cause she loved them plenty while she was abusing them too. Why is there a sad pause while discussing that Mickey was Donna’s favorite? As if not worrying enough that the one kid who got the attention and adoration from Donna is also the one who felt the most trapped in life? Donna not only abused her children, but she also neglected them emotionally enough for them to carry into very unhealthy dynamics and coping mechanisms. For Carmen it was Fields and cooking, for Michael it was drugs and failed projects.

It would have made a bigger impact on me and my belief in Donna’s capacity for change if she had ever allowed her kids to distance themselves from her, because she mainly used her kids as sources of emotional security throughout her life. Her understanding that she did bad things doesn’t mean she understands why she did them. It doesn’t imply that she now has the emotional maturity or coping mechanisms to avoid falling back into old habits and behaviors. Donna’s behavior in s5 seemed somewhat childish, as if they were trying to portray her as a bear with no teeth left, as if she dropped all her vicious behavior the moment she decided to. That doesn’t work like that.

Carmen has his own arc to overcome his trauma about being in the safe zone. His first and main safe zone is Sydney, then Richie, and his team. He doesn’t feel the ghost of Fields hunting him anymore cause what he did to him was proven wrong- that, no matter how much he failed, he would always be worthy of love. That’s what happened when he dropped the dish, and Syd and Richie calmed him down.

I just don’t think his ending with Donna is justified; it's like they wanted to sell an ending about believing in people, but they didn’t connect that with the reality of abuse and trauma enough for it actually to feel honest. Like Storer tried to showcase the ‘best scenario’, how he wishes his parents had acted with him, but in doing that, I think he betrayed the actual wisdom that could had helped people like him and Carmen; healing trauma is not about redemption or reconciliation, is about breaking loyalty to abusive systems, and victims have a right to do it regardless of that implies reconciliation or not. Most of the time, reconciliation is gonna be out of the question cause you cannot heal from something you are still justifying. You cannot be in a relationship with someone who only sees your happiness as a means to their own, and that’s the vibe Donna still gives me, cause she never got truly confronted, and I don’t know what she would do if she ever did. I don’t have a reason to believe the old Donna is gone, just that it's gonna be a ‘responsibility’ for Carm and Nat to ‘help her’ and take care of her regardless, and I honestly hate that. Cause it implies that they are willing to take bad behavior from her just cause she is 'trying.’ That her victims are supposed to be the ones to do therapy and healing to deal with her, and have to live with the consequences of what she did. Still, we don’t have a clear definition of how she plans to make it easier for them; she doesn’t sacrifice anything, not even a little time, distance or loneliness of her own, to prove that what she cares for most is the well-being of her children.

[waywardangel-wilds]

YES

[tvfantic87]

Imma leave this here

Very well said @yannaryartside

[glittertimes]

Listening to Let Me Live In Your City again - which is the Paul Simon song that plays when Carmy is walking around the Frank Lloyd Wright house in season 4, but the lyrics feel so different after season 5.

At first, I didn't understand why he goes to the Frank Lloyd Wright house around the same time that he calls Claire, like they feel like such different scenes that don't go together? And after the series finale it seems like they left this story line unanswered.

But now I think that this is where Carmy chooses Syd! Because the lyrics tell the whole SydCarmy season 5 story!

"You got the cool water / when the fever runs high" - Carmy self harms by touching fire and burning himself, and Syd's always associated with water, in her dreams and the way she's more emotional and caring - compared to carmy who's a bit more reckless and firey.

He also tells Claire that being with her feels like being on fire - because he's pushing himself to be with her because he thinks it's what he should do, not because it's something he's genuinely ready and excited for.

"It took a little while but you calmed me down" - Syd calms Carmy down 3 times in the series, and he finally helps calm her down this season too!

"Let me live in your city, the river's so pretty" - Sheridan Road is along Lake Michigan, and he literally takes Claire for a drive there!

"And I got a wall around me / You can't even see / It took a little time to get to me" - both Syd and Carm are so avoidant and scared to let people in, but they embrace each other this season and they acknowledge each other's emotions and create a safe family home together!

It also mirrors so much of the dialogue in earlier seasons, like when Syd gets upset with Carm for not calling her when they tore down the walls at The Beef, and when Syd is looking for an apartment her dad tells her the walls are thin - meaning the walls between Syd and Carm were always going to fall eventually.

And the Tom Petty song that plays in season 2 or 3 with the lyrics "Even walls fall down" - even though they both resisted their feelings for each other, they couldn't keep their guards up forever.

But the line in this song that tells me that we got SydCarmy even if it wasn't explicitly shown, is this one.

"Some people never say the words I love you / It's not their style to be so bold / But like a child they're longing to be told"

They never say I love you out loud or kiss or express their romantic feelings but for characters that never let anyone in, or feel safe expressing their emotions - the hug and the "do you trust me?" are a huge milestone in their relationship and probably as close as they can get to saying I love you at this point.

I think this is also why I've had a hard time starting fics with romantic or sexual scenes right away bc they are Soooooooo avoidant! They need to talk things out and make sure that they're safe and that their feelings will be reciprocated, because emotional connection and closeness feels inherently unsafe to avoidant people!

But the chorus in this song is "Let me live in your city / I'm just a traveler eating up traveling time" - he's traveling - being with Claire - or trying to self sabotage and run away by quitting - but all he wants is to live in her city, to work in the restaurant with her.

Season 4 was about Syd realizing she wanted to work in the restaurant with Carmy, it wasn't just about being the best or running her own place or getting a star - but about doing all those things with Carmy!(and the rest of her found family). She realizes this at the wedding, when she dances with Richie and bonds with everyone under the table which is why she calls Shapiro directly after this.

Season 5 was all about Carmy learning to reciprocate that, he ends up taking an interview at a literal architecture firm (building walls) but it seems like either he doesn't get the job, or he decides not to pursue it because he realizes that the walls between him and syd, and him and cooking are gone, he has a safe place to cook and express his talents and passions, he helped create a place that provides amusement and enjoyment, where people feel safe and cared for.

The problem before was that he was trying to do it all on his own and it made him feel incapable, but it was because running a home and a family is a team effort, he needed his partner - and found family to succeed.

Also I've always thought it was weird that Claire asks for a green sweater, when Syd is always wearing a green sweater outside of the restaurant, she has her green puffy coat, and the green sweatshirt with little embroidered designs that she wears when they cook together in his apartment!

[whenmemorydies]

I know folks are pissed that we didn’t get a Sydcarmy kiss in S5 but I’d like to draw your attention to the below quick comparative analysis of the canon romance we got in The Bear this season:

In terms of typical romance tropes we got:

• Nat and Pete fucking in the literal garbage; and

• Richie and Jess holding hands.

Meanwhile, on the Sydcarmy front, we got:

• Confirmation that Carmy has a mental fan edit of the first time he met Sydney on standby to get out of his panic attacks;

• Syd telling Carmy to “fuck me” and him responding with “well fuck” which is just one apostrophe away from “we’ll fuck”;

• Carmy clearing Syd’s The Bear’s plumbing only to make it squirt leak so much that her it’s panties basement flooded (jesus I am getting flustered writing this meta LOL);

• Carmy all up in Syd’s personal space to the extent that she had to ask him to get off from on top of her 🫠🫠🫠;

• Carmy dousing Syd that lamb with his cream tonnato 🪦 (before fumbling the whole exercise by dropping the plate…who finishes them off though? Syd 😉); and

• That embrace 😭😭😭

I’m sure there’s more but I need to do a rewatch and revisit lol

The romance, love and sex was turned up to 1000 for Sydcarmy this season and they managed to do it without getting subjected to the racist curse that is D*sney. They did it on their own terms and I’m grateful for all of it.

[freedelusionshere]

Oh, there is more, and it’s extremely erotic, per usual.

The drain thing is so funny 🤣 I didn’t catch that until you mentioned it.

Is the building actually possessed/falling apart from Sydcarmy UST?

And the Faks not wanting to touch the plumbing! And being called pussies by Syd and she duct taped the pipe herself?!!!

Carmy’s reverse-Mr. Darcy toilet bath in S1 and Cicero bringing up toilets to Richie?

I’m levitating again!

This show is so funny.

[tvfantic87]

[falllpoutboy]

I finally cracked the complex puzzle known as what sydcarmy ACTUALLY is within the canon and context of the show

The relationship between Sydney and Carmy has been talked about, examined and widely interpreted in different ways by almost all fans of the show. This meta isn’t to discourage anyone in how they see sydcarmy but Season five of The Bear has been out for two weeks and having finished it and thought very long and hard on the relationship between Sydney and Carmy throughout all 5 seasons, and what the finale season conveyed and portrayed in regards to it, I have come up with a conclusion that best fits how to define sydcarmy: an implicit romance.

Before I go into the details of this relationship, ask yourself this question, when you think of romantic relationships when you watch movies and TV, what do you picture? Like me, you’ll automatically think of two people expressing grand romantic gestures (giving gifts, going on dates, verbally committing to a relationship), enacting physically intimate scenes (kissing on the lips, sexual relations) and some big emotional confrontation between characters that is verbally expressed. What that is, what we are used to seeing onscreen, are explicit romantic relationships. Think about ross and rachel in friends, carrie and big in sex and the city, harry and sally in when harry met sally and any other movie or tv show with a romantic relationship within it. In the context of The Bear and romance, I think of Tina and David Marrero and Natalie and Pete Katinsky.

Now ask yourself again, when you think of a friendship between characters within a movie or a show, what do you picture? Characters who are friends are consistently there for each other through the good times and the bad, friends talk about both easy and difficult things without much barriers between them and friends always have a clear platonic divide that doesn’t impede on their romantic relationships. Think about any of the core four characters in sex and the city, molly and issa in insecure, jon and sam in game of thrones. In the context of The Bear and friendship, I think of Tina and Ebra and Sydney and Marcus and Marcus and Chester.

In our fandom, I think everyone can agree that Sydney and Carmy’s textual relationship existed outside of the realms of both platonic and explicit romance, never quite veering into either area throughout any and all five seasons of the show. Before season 5, I would’ve defined sydcarmy’s canonical relationship as nebulous and undefinable. In 4x10 Goodbye, we all saw that argument scene and at its peak she tearfully claimed that he’s her (business) partner and he angrily rebutted that he’s her friend. Both assertions fall into the realm of platonic. But both assertions are not true, as Sydney had yet to sign the partnership agreement, which would’ve made them officially partners (the show even ends without us even seeing Sydney inking her name on the renegotiated agreement, an argument for another day lol). And his claim on friendship is also false, seeing as they never hung out outside of work, as we saw Sydney and Marcus doing (in s1 at Emmanuel’s apartment after they both quit and in s3 making a dead mom’s pact), fully working out their differences after a brief falling out like Tina and Ebra did (s2 when he came back to The Bear) or being there for each other after a difficult time like Marcus and Chester (s4 the latter took care of the sale of his mother’s house). The show consistently went out of its way to pull out all stops in showing Sydney and Carmy not having a platonic friendship. In season 2, when he makes plans to meet her at a restaurant where they would’ve hung out outside of work, he bails. In season 3, he doesn’t join everyone else they work with at a get-together at Sydney’s apartment. In season 4, he doesn’t join her at her father’s bedside in the hospital and she refuses his request to go with her and be with her. They are not friends and only Sydney is aware of that.

So if the show refused to make Sydney and Carmy’s relationship strictly professional and also refused to make their relationship a platonic friendship, I can only make the well informed hypothesis (based on prior knowledge, the observable evidence provided in The Bear, and relevant comments from the cast and crew) that their relationship is a highly intense, uniquely intimate, implied and implicit romance.

Tvtropes defines an implied love interest as “when one character fills the role of a Love Interest to another character in the narrative, or otherwise has a lot of tropes related to being a Love Interest surrounding them, but nothing explicit in the narrative or from the creators is ever stated on the matter.” Sydney and Carmy are each other’s implied love interest as evidenced by the romantic tropes, textual and subtextual content between them. The actors have chemistry, that’s undeniable, but the way they both acted around each other is unique in that their interactions cannot be replicated with any other character. Here’s some reminders if you need to jog your memory (A, B, C, D, X, Y, Z). That’s the text of the show, that can’t be changed or misinterpreted by anyone.

Subtextually, many of instances where we see romance implied is where interpretations will vary by how someone sees the show. The infamous s2 panic attack scene, where Carmy breaks out of it by picturing pivotal moments of Sydney in his life. The repeated and indisputable fact that Carmy made the best meal of Sydney’s life (reinforced by actually showing us this moment in s3’s premiere episode). The once thought abandoned plot of the cola braised short ribs being reintroduced in s5 to highlight that Sydney made the best meal of Carmy’s life. The original under the table scene, framed and shot like a sex scene. The scene where they met, the plot of season 1 only occurring because they meet. The repeated instanced of Carmy recreating Sydney’s attire on a plate of lamb. The star reveal and subsequent hug scene. These were all pivotal moments that showed us their love for each other, a love that no other character had with anyone else onscreen in the entirety of the show.

Both the critics and viewers have highlighted since the show's inception the uniqueness between Sydney and Carmy. After season one, when asked about their relationship, main writer Joanna Calo replied that a hook up between them was floated but ultimately shot down and the show's creator, Chris Storer replied that their relationship was a “partnership”. TVTropes goes on to further say that “One reason for this trope is in a serial work, it allows the author to gently cover their bums when it comes to either Ship Sinking ("Hey, the ship never set sail in the first place") or Cleaning Up Romantic Loose Ends ("The potential was there from the start"). The writer may state that they Hooked Up Afterwards, or leave it to the reader's imagination. Expect there to be at least some fans who pair the couple up regardless.” Sound familiar?

I want to especially clarify that when sydcarmy became so popular and synonymous with the show (somewhere between s2 and 3), that I think some fans wanted a clear explicit relationship between them (me included). I would go so far as to say that our wants of explicit romance were known by both cast and crew and were shut down routinely because of the way most romances are portrayed and seen, and they knew that Carmy and Sydney will not kiss, date or be physically intimate onscreen that expresses sexual relations. It is a creative decision that was supported substantially textually and subtextually in the latter three seasons of the show that, for better or worse, solidified the fact that an explicit romance between them was not going to happen.

To conclude, now that season 5 is out and Jeremy himself confirmed there is love between Sydney and Carmy but it is not a romantic partnership, I can only define what they have between them as implied romance and that was the intent from the beginning. It didn’t need to be verbalized and physically expressed onscreen like his relationship with C*****, and it can’t simply be relegated to professional, platonic or familial the way these characters had with others. Sydney loves Carmy. Carmy loves Sydney. That very real but ultimately implicit love exists and is the reason we were invested since the beginning. Their love was written in the margins, indeed.