i feel like a lot of the 'i hate kids' crowd would be more tolerant if they understood that due to a kid's limited experience of the world that 4 hour flight might just be the longest they've ever had to sit still for or that trapped finger might literally be the most pain they've ever felt in their short life or they might not have ever seen a person with pink hair ever so of course they want to touch it or nobody's told them yet that they can't run around the museum and they only just learned cheetahs are the fastest animals so of course they want to put that to the test. how were they supposed to know etc etc.
you don't have to want to spend time with kids, but you have to treat them fairly. they're human beings, and vulnerable ones at that
there's a big difference between not wanting kids/not enjoying spending time with them/finding they contribute to sensory issues, and hating their very existence. talking all the time about how you hate kids just makes you an asshole
kids aren't evil or awful or purposely annoying you. they're new to the world, they're exploring and figuring out how things work
also, as someone who has worked with kids, you can't ascribe adult behaviors to them. for example, if a kid points out your acne or body hair, they're almost definitely not trying to be rude like an adult might be. they're curious about what things are and how they work, they just want to understand and learn new things
we were all kids once. treat them with the respect and understanding that you either were or should have been treated with as a child.
Idea 5: Vanessa visits the graves of her victims and sees ghosts
An idea that I've seen exceedingly few fics try and cover is Vanessa encountering the ghosts of the people whom she (as Vanny) murdered after the 3-star ending.
I am unsure as to how one would make this situation happen. Maybe it could be a dream.
A scenario that I like most has to do with the idea that Vanessa visits the graves of the children she (no vanny) killed. After she was freed, she reported the location of the bodies so that they could recieve a proper burial. Vanessa knows that it isn't enough, she doesn't think that she will ever be able to do enough to atone for what she did to all of those children (it wasn't you, it was Vanny.) At the very least she tries to go and visit their graves once a week, making sure to bring flowers for them everytime. Vanessa doesn't say anything during the visits, what is there to say? "I'm sorry?" Yeah right, as if SHE is deserving of forgiveness...
I really like it because there are a lot of things you could potentially cover, including:
How would the ghosts react to seeing the freed Vanessa? Would the children be enraged? If so, what would they do?
Or would they be able to see that the person in front of them is not really the same as the one who murdered them, not mentally, at least? Maybe (relating back to idea 2) the children who were taught by her would be able to convince the other children of this.
How about the therapists? They would likely be more willing to listen, being adults trained in understanding psychological conditions.
One could discuss how Vanessa has been dealing with having 2 sets of childhood memories, a fake abusive one (put there by Glitchtrap for reasons of trying to make her more obedient, which ended up failing) and her true, standard, evidently normal one. (in this universe patient 46 and their tapes didn't exist, save for that one line about lying about childhood, just pretend it was in one of Vanessa's tapes)
And, of course, we can't forget Vanessa. What would she do? It is most likely that she would curl up into a ball and await the punishment that she thinks she deserves (she doesn’t). After all, it is HER fault, right? (No, it’s Vanny's.)
If you include Gregory in this encounter, he, being the "no fear" gremlin that he is, would probably try and start to defend his… uh… paternal guardian of unspecified rank in some way, either by trying to explain that Vanny is no more, or try and actually fight the ghosts.
As you can see, there are many ways that I think someone can make a mini story out of this concept.
Since we know for a fact peepaw Afton could see the ghosts of the kiddies he killed (Or they chose to present themselves, it's blurry lines at this point) due to the Springlock incident minigame, the idea that after the whole Vanny shebackle, Vanessa too can see the kids is so sad.
Gregory throwin' down with ghost children by throwing Ouija boards at them
But her swallowing her fear to confront her guilt and visit the graves, that's such a sad mental image.
Oh I've been waiting for an ask like this to come across my inbox after how popular my Bonnie theories have been. (full theory and spoilers under the cut)
Short answer: I think he's neat!
Long answer: I think Montgomery Gator is one of, if not the, most tragic character in the entire Glamrock cast. And his tragedy, while of course upsetting to see, is also incredibly endearing from a narrative standpoint.
What does that mean? Well, let me explain.
Monty was not made to be part of the band. That much we know in the canon lore. He was his own animatronic, with his own attraction and his own thing. Whether or not he was there from the very beginning when the Pizzaplex was built, or maybe they added him later to bring in more diversity and subvert the burden on the main band, I don't think we'll ever know. (since every main band member has their own attraction, which probably subtracts from their available time to perform main shows throughout the day)
The only bits and pieces we get of Monty's "life" before his joining the band is narrated through the Gator Golf attraction.
Monty's story starts with him as a One Man Jug Band, playing by himself in his swamp.
Now it's already pretty apparent that the Monty we see here is way more docile and doe-eyed than the one we encounter in Security Breach, but maybe that's the point.
We all know the stories of humble beginnings, of rags to riches. To me, Monty was one of those stories. A little guy who ended up catching a big break down the line.
Now to get this out of the way, I don't believe Monty shattered Bonnie or the theory that Monty hated Bonnie (I went into detail here if you want the full explanation). We actually can easily debunk that theory in a few different ways, but the main thing is everything we see about Monty implies he actually admired Bonnie.
In his ride you see how he looks at Bonnie, His Showtime outfit incorporates yellow stars (like Bonnie), and he even still uses Bonnie's bass.
Now if you hate someone, if you hate them enough to kill them and take their place because you felt you deserved their fame, would you emulate that person? Would you use and wear their items, thereby constantly reminding yourself of someone you hate so much? Why would you go through the trouble of getting rid of them, of wiping them from everyone's memory, just to keep things that will always tie you to them? That doesn't make much sense to me.
You could argue that the items are trophies of his 'kill', but wouldn't you keep trophies or things of the like somewhere no one could see them? Why flaunt them and again, bring attention to this person that you hate so very much?
I think it's the exact opposite. Monty admired Bonnie, the depths of which we probably won't ever know the extent of, and when Bonnie disappeared, Monty took his place but never forgot the person who got him there. He wears Bonnie's glasses (which we never see Bonnie wear aside from in his neon portrait, which may imply that he might have given the shades to Monty directly at some time before he was shattered) and he uses Bonnie's bass, which was ALSO given to him according to the Gator Golf ride
I've seen people say that this scene is actually showing that Bonnie was just setting his bass aside after a show and Monty stole it, thereby using it for his own gain and I. . .don't see how people can infer that from the image? It looks like Bonnie is literally holding it out to Monty, who is on one knee and accepting it with respect and a cheerful expression on his face. Besides, you need some MASSIVE balls to just. . .steal a band's instrument after the show and just get away with it? Especially from what we see in game, there'd be no feasible way Monty could do that without the audience or technicians being like "What the fuck are you doing"
So yeah no, this looks like a mutual passing of the torch.
Anyways, Monty uses the shades and bass as a nod to Bonnie, he was a sweetheart with a baby face who got thrown into fame to replace his idol. I think, in some regards, Monty might've felt conflicted. Like, here he is in his dream job, but at the cost of someone he cared about.
You know who Monty DID hate though? Freddy. We can infer from plenty of sources and in game material that Monty HATED Freddy, and the reasoning for that could be literally anything, but it's not odd for a bandmate to dislike their leader/member because they're more popular (you see it a lot in IRL bands too, the favoritism and jealousy)
It's also easy to see that fame changed Monty, as it does for plenty of people. Having so many eyes on you, feeling the euphoria of all the love and attention day in and day out, it gets to your head. It changes who you are, muddles your humility. And we can see that Monty acts in the stereotypical Rocker way, conceited, destroys his greenroom and other things after shows, etc. It's an all too common trope and its sad to see it happen to Monty, though a lot of his rage could also be compounded by Glitchtrap/Vanny/Mimic being annoying (Notably, you never hear of Monty destroying his shades or his bass. Perhaps there are some things that he's oddly protective of)
And then in the main Security Breach, you only meet Monty at his worst. Angry, Corrupted, feral. You spend your time running from him (since Bonnie's shades protect him from most of Gregory's gimmicks), you hear from second-hand conjecture that he was probably the one who shattered Bonnie (which probably weighs on him too, the children asking where Bonnie is, and the technicians maybe side-eyeing him thinking that he's just a meathead who destroyed Bonnie to take his place) and each time you see him, he just gets more and more split from that sweetheart who was happily playing in his swamp.
Not to mention how he "dies"
Monty comes for Cassie, ruined beyond salvation, his mind still gone from all of the torment he endured being controlled and shattered over and over. To save herself, Cassie uses the Faz-wrench to activate the power and escape, only for the electric currents to turn the water into a death trap.
The thing that decommissions Monty, that finally puts him out of his misery, is Bonnie. That's Bonnie's neon portrait (a bit damaged from the dilapidated building) and it is the very thing that electrifies the water, destroying Monty's hardware. Whether or not its karma for Monty shattering Bonnie, or some sort of heartfelt prose that the thing that finally allows Monty to rest is the one person he cared about most, who's to say? You could argue it both ways, but isn't it just a tad more comforting to think that even in death, Bonnie was always looking out for his understudy?
Monty's story and character progression is a trope of Falling from Grace, of Icarus flying too close to the Sun and plummeting to the unforgiving earth. The more I learn about him, the more I feel bad for him. I think he deserved better. Roxanne for her redemption in Ruin, but Monty is left open-ended. A monster and murderer to some, a washed-up rocker to others.
But I think Montgomery was more than that. I think he had the capacity for gentleness and love, but he was in a position where the world was against him. His older and more experienced bandmates always destined to be loved more than him. He was basically an entry level teenager around mastery level adults. He might've lost his mind back then to the pressure and the negativity, resorting to violence for attention. No one was there for him, and Bonnie, the only person who probably would've been there for him and understood him better than most, disappeared without a trace, leaving him all alone in a world that would never fully accept him.
Okay, there's a lot in this theory that I love but something that always bothers me is the assumption that Freddy and Monty dislike or outright hate each other.
Here's the thing: I don't think they do.
"But Freddy is destroyed in the Gator Golf Arcade! And he doesn't have a spotlight or a head in the Gator Golf dark ride!"
True, but if he really hated Freddy and wanted to take his place, why would he miss main performances? Why would he go back to Gator Golf's catwalks all the time?
We know it's outright stated in the "Monty Mischief" log (which tells us how to decomission Monty) that he is frequently missing main stage performances to walk around on the catwalks. If he wanted to be the main star he wouldn't miss performances. He would try to outdo Freddy instead. He'd try to be front and center every single performance.
But he's not doing that; instead it's almost as if he's avoiding him.
And if you look at it that way, Freddy's actions towards Monty makes sense to.
Freddy doesn't know how to treat Monty. As many have pointed out, Monty has "inherited" both Bonnie's guitar and Bonnie's star glasses. And, we know Freddy and Bonnie were incredibly close (and even possibly lovers if you run in certain circles but thats neither here nor there).
But then Monty shows up, with Bonnie's stuff, and tells them he's their new bassist. I'm sure Freddy knows that Bonnie went MIA in Gator Golf, and has probably asked Monty repeatedly if he's seen anything-- only to get no answer. Now he's seeing the things that reminds him of Bonnie everyday, now he's got some newbie kid replacing Bonnie, which means he isn't coming back. Freddy doesn't know what to do, or how to treat Monty, and from what it seems, he doesn't really interact with him outside of official Fazbear Ent setups. Freddy knows a lot about Chica and Roxy, but with Monty we get nothing from him-- like he doesn't know anything but the basics.
And perhaps, Monty is seeing this coldness, this arms' length behavior as non acceptance of him as a new member, and is choosing to keep his distance. He knows Bonnie meant a lot to Freddy, and maybe he thinks Freddy is seeing him as a 2nd rate replacement.
In the end, there's not a lot of communication going on between the two.
And I think Fazbear Ent is taking advantage of this.
Now, the other thing I think people overlook is that the Pizzaplex is run by Fazbear Ent, and they don't have the best track record for a lot of things. But one thing they do know how to do is cut corners and make a shit ton of money.
I think Fazbear Ent is trying to make Monty stand out as different from Bonnie, by giving him the "bad boy" Rockstar persona. It's stated that they want and hope Monty becomes more popular than Bonnie (and I think that's so they never have to come up with an official statement for where Bonnie is or what happened to him). And Freddy and Monty's attitudes to each other only further this.
Now they can build a narrative, and they use Monty-- the newest member-- to do this. You can see this in the dark ride-- if this is Monty telling us his story from his perspective --but built by Fazbear Ent-- of course they're gonna slip in a hint of rivalry. And it's the same with the Arcase. It's Monty's attraction, it revolves around them, so yeah, the company's gonna slip in some hints of band rivalry. It is true that bands/groups did have controversies surrounding jealousy or animosity between each other, but I think Fazbear Ent is playing it up because people love a good story, or good rumors. And a good story brings in business. And additionally, it taps into the nostalgia of parents by making up a "band rivalry" for an 80's themed band.
Monty got pushed into a lot of situations without control over it, and even now, he doesn't get a lot of support. Not from his bandmates, not from the customers, and not from Fazbear Ent.
These are all really valid points, definitely stuff that I too had thought of while pouring over the stuff I needed to craft some of my Bonnie and Monty theories.
I think it'd be utterly fascinating to see and hear in canon that Monty's "hatred" of Freddy was, in and of itself, another trope perpetrated by the technicians or FazEnt themselves. I mentioned somewhere that Monty's reactions to Freddy definitely fell in line with the band trope of favoritism and jealousy due to the differences in popularity, but it was always easy to infer that Monty simply hated Freddy and that's all there is to it.
But if we go the route of "Everything we know of Monty is conjecture and could be a set up to frame him as the bad guy", it is pretty easy to see that maybe, yeah, he didn't hate Freddy. Maybe they had some bad blood or awkward interactions because of Bonnie, but we definitely know that Freddy doesn't have a hateful bone in his body, so it certainly wasnt Freddy who instigated or nurtured those feelings in Monty.
I explained this somewhere (I actually have a post where I look into the theories surrounding Monty hating Freddy) but there's a lot of things that pushes us towards the outcome of "Monty at the very least doesn't like Freddy" since the only "relationships" we see of Monty are either involving Bonnie (admiration) and Freddy (jealousy/hatred/whatever theory you run with) but its incredibly fascinating to realize that maybe I was theory crafting all wrong
This theories revolve around the potential of Monty being framed or type-cast.
We could potentially prove that Monty never killed Bonnie. We could potentially prove that Monty maybe wasn't as jealous as we first assumed. So why couldn't we potentially prove that the "feelings" Monty has maybe weren't his feelings at all and was just the persona that the technicians and FazEnt made to surround him?
Looking at it that way, maybe Monty is even more tragic than I first assumed. They're trying so hard to build him as a loner and a jealous asshole, but maybe he's none of those things at all.
Perhaps I'm guilty of being fooled by the tropes too
I love this. As a guy with anger management, it's endlessly painful to see people say, "He killed bonnie! Why? Because he's angry, that's what angry people do. " I've never hurt anyone, ask my friends/family (@hydrajones, @fandom-gal44), I'm the safest guy ever. They know I'd never hurt them.
I also relate to the Monty, who was an innocent sweet gator with big dreams, before something happened to make him uncontrollably angry.
Speaking of relating to Monty, my personal theories for why he is so angry and misses showtimes are based on things I experience:
tldr: he has sensory issues, with light at least (I mean, the guy literally wears sunglasses indoors), and he's a gator who is no longer getting the level of enrichment he used to by being trapped in his green room and having a packed schedule.
So first, THE MAN IS WORKING 18HR DAYS EVERY DAY, with no holiday breaks because money, AROUND SCREAMING CHILDREN, AND KARENS, UNDER EXTREMELY BRIGHT LIGHTS AND LOUD SOUNDS AND WHEN HE'S NOT PERFORMING HE IS STUCK IN SMALL ASS ROOM, literally in a cage, ON DISPLAY LIKE A ZOO ANIMAL! Also he doesn't get to hang out with coworkers/friends because they go straight to their rooms, the only break he gets is for 6hrs at night when he's patrolling the pizza plex as extra security, so basically his break is a 2nd job (3rd, 4th? I'm losing track of how many jobs the glamrocks have), and if you pay attention, all the other animatronics are having massive breakdowns as well (minus DJMM, probably). Chica stress eats fucking garbage, Roxy has massive self-esteem issues, Sun and Moon have insanely high anxiety (they both clean obsessively & micromanage where the children are) that affect their personalities in different ways, and Freddy is severely depressed.
Sensory issues; we all know the animatronics are affected by bright flashing lights and certain loud sounds (AKA Chica screaming). But Monty seems to be the most affected by light out of all of them. He wears sunglasses 24/7 (maybe Bonnie gave him the sunglasses because he knew how badly he reacted to light). All the areas associated with him are dark as hell. He intentionally broke all the lights in his green room & always keeps the curtains shut. He likes hanging out in the Gator Golf rafters- one of the darkest areas in the game- despite having injured himself up there before. Not to mention, he has the severest reaction to being hit with the camera flash/fazer blaster. The other animatronics will yell something about their eyes or being hurt, but Monty just SCREAMS.
Enrichment; I know from my own experiences with anger management that exercise helps A LOT. Anger naturally makes you want to do physical activity, like using a punching bag or lifting weights to flush the adrenaline from your system. I know when I'm having a bad day, I exercise fairly intensely to calm myself down. I believe this is true for Monty as well since he spends all his "free" time in the greenroom destroying shit and all his real free time after hours running and leaping around the Pizzaplex. Not to mention, the thing that you take from the anamatronics to upgrade Freddy represent things that are really important to them. Roxy's eyes, since she cares deeply about her appearance. And Chica's beak, because she loves eating. And what do we take from Monty? His legs, his ability to run around, climb up into the rafter, etc. This tells me that doing those things was a MASSIVE source of joy for him.
Also, from Monty's voice lines I get the feeling that he likes kids and is great with them (I believe all the animatronics are, like how Roxy immediately puts aside her personal issues when Cassie was around) BUT that many kids under those conditions for that long would be rough on anyone, even people who love kids.
Obviously, he liked performing and was extatic to be in the band, but he's been burned out, and Faz Ent has clearly sapped all the joy out of performing.
I think its wonderful how you felt that this conversation was not only pleasing to you, but made you feel validated despite what you go through and see as misinformation about something you suffer through.
It was very brave of you to mention your own situation and your points definitely added far more to this than I could ever had hoped to see on my own. I'm always looking at things that show up as physical/mental/emotional issues and I find it fascinating to see things from a different perspective from my own. Your theories and info was certainly eye opening to me, and I'll certainly be looking into and maybe implementing some of these things in my own theories and aus in the future.
Thank you again for your input, and I'm so glad you felt that this was a safe enough place for you to not only relate, but to add your own thoughts and feelings!
I'm gonna be honest, this one is my personal favorite, and I am quite surprised that it hasn't been done yet.* Think of the angst potential!
*This is no longer true
Imagine it's been a few weeks since the 3 star ending and the 3 goobers are getting more acclimated to living with each other. Gregory is getting used to the fact that he has 2 adult figures that actually care about him. Vanessa’s nightmares are starting to become less severe. Freddy’s head was reattached to his body, and he now remotely controls a child-size bear doll (like a Lonely Freddy but not evil) so he can still easily be with Gregory when he isn't at the pizzaplex.
The day would start like any other: everyone wakes up, goes through their morning routines, and eats some breakfast. Gregory finishes first and gets up to go and wash off his plate in the sink. That is when it happens, Vanessa starts to feel a little off, like she is moving slower than normal. At first, she brushes it off as her still waking up. Then she hears a voice… a voice she only hears in her worst nightmares… VANNYS voice. Vanessa would then discover that she could no longer move or speak. She could only watch as she felt herself get up from her chair, and pick up a knife from off of the counter. The reason that she still has any knives at all is for Gregory to use to spread various condiments on his school sandwiches when he makes them.
Meanwhile, Gregory and Freddy are near the sink, having a conversation about Freddy's obsession with dad jokes or something (You are the Morbest superstar!) They turn around, preparing to return to Gregory's room to get ready for school, and they see Vanessa, holding a knife. Gregory would feel a sharp twinge of betrayal before looking at Vanessa's face to see that her calm green eyes, ones that had reassured him after many a nightmare, were now glowing a sickly purple. Freddy and Gregory would realize that the person in front of them was no longer Vanessa, but Vanny.
Vanny raises her arm, Gregory is looking for a way out. He is also preparing for the possibility of being killed, and he doesn't want to give Vanny the satisfaction of being scared if that happens. Through all this, Vanessa is trying desperately to retake control, all the while Vanny mocks her efforts, making sure that Vanessa won't be able to mentally look away from her worst fear, the death of her savior by her own hands. Freddy is preparing to try and jump in front of Gregory at the last second to try and cushion the blow of the knife using his plush form.
Just before Vanny is able to deliver the killing blow, she disappears. No warning at all, like a true glitch, Freddy and Gregory watch as Vanessa's eyes flicker from purple back to green, drops the knife and collapses to the floor, hugs herself and sits in complete silence for a few seconds before bursting into hysterical tears.
That is where I will leave it, what happens next is for y'all to decide!
I havent even finished reading this I'm still in the first paragraph but I have to say you say "child sized bear doll" i hear my one true love HELPY THE BEAR-
I have such a vivid mental image of Vanessa/Vanny standing in the kitchen behind Freddy and Gregory, who are unaware of it all. The idea that Vanny can return, like when you try to clean up a spill but the surface is still just a bit damp in a way you can't for the life of you clean off is so chefs kiss
Contrary to most fics, where "freed" Vanessa acts exactly the same as Vanny, just not evil; I believe that in the pre-Help Wanted era, Vanessa was actually great with children. My reasoning is as follows:
Fazbear Entertainment wants to improve their reputation before the VR game release and the pizzaplex opening.
Decide to make each of their "branches" (companies that work for them) send one of their employees to schools to talk about their job as a way to "be transparent."
Vanessa's job is basically "play/ break video games," so Silver Parasol Games, the company that made FNAF VR in this universe, decides to send her out.
Vanessa finds working with the kids to be very enjoyable. She used to babysit kids when she was a teenager. Her positive and bubbly personality (as evidenced by the cut FNAF AR emails) makes the kids really like her. They are blown away by the idea that they can be paid to play video games.
Vanessa especially likes when some of those kids get that look of "I have found what I want to do with my life."
It's a win for everyone! Vanessa inspires some kids to get into tech, the children get a newfound love for technology, and Fazbear Entertainment's reputation goes up...slightly.
All this just serves to make the whole "Vanny" thing even worse, especially if some of her victims were those same kids Vanessa once talked with.
This is so cute and so sad, I'm a firm believer in Nice Vanessa but this takes it up a handful of notches and makes it absolutely adorable. The idea she's great with kids and gets along with them would be perfect for her job, if only she wasn't possessed by peepaw Afton.
That last part was unfairly evil just so you know, my poor heart D:
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What's your opinion on the Michael afton possessing glamrock Freddy theory? It's gotten popular due to Matt's video and that Gregory looks like the crying child
my opinion is that this is such a funny shit. I can't take it as a canon, but I like to think of this concept as an au.
I like Mike, he's cool. and I'm pleased to think that his arch didn't end on fnaf pizza simulator and he came back to us in GR Freddy's form. I just,, I just like looking at Freddy and thinking it's Michael. protects Gregory. man... <3
and also
I'm cackling every time I see these memes about:
this is too brilliant man
so yeah. this theory is pretty cool, I really enjoy it and, I think, has a right to exist -з-
"But but 🥺 Gregory destroyed the animatronics 😭😭" HELL YEAH HE DID ‼️‼️ HE WHOOPED THEIR FUCKING ASSES RAAAAAHHHHH 🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
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