VacationShip

[marianasue]

Groundhog day and The Bear :

every movie poster appeared in the bear , is giving hints about where the story is heading , and most importantly Groundhog day poster that appeared strangely behind syd and carmen in s1 :

phil = carmy , rita =syd

the places of the characters are really interesting .

phil is behind carm , rita is behind syd

the main story of groundhog day begins after phil get out of the car in snowy storm :

the policeman quote is really important .

the story of s3 of the bear , begins in the end of s2 when carm was stuck in the freezer : he get out of it but mentally he is still stuck in it.

phil get out from the snowy storm but since that day , his days is repeating itself .

this is what phil said about rita :

she´s fun but not my kind of fun : does it sound like someone , in the bear having struggles to have fun with someone else : maybe !

phil high school ´´friend´´ still remembers phil but phil didn´t remember him :

the same situation with carm and kyle :

now let´s get to the most important point :

in the movie , in order to change the day or make a difference and end the same cycle : phil gets informations from a woman named nancy , and guess what happened the next day :

phil pretended to know nancy , and her character was introduced as :

nancy ´´phil high school friend" , poor nancy didn´t remember phil but she pretend to know him because : he is phil connors , a famous meteorologist in the tv .

anyway , the two went for a date and end up making out but phil mind was thinking about rita , during the whole make out :

hhhhhh , I read some posts , here , that carmen during that sex was in truth thinking about sydney , and this is really funny if we will find out about it :

in the bear this cut is really important :

why after the first picture ,directly , we have syd dressing .

phil quote about time :

in the bear we have : ´´every second counts´´

phil was shy to say his love confession to rita , so he said it when she was asleep :

that scene was wery very emotional , the soundtrack was amazing ,everything was amazing

but this words doesn´t describe someone feelings in the bear :

by the way phil voice tone was like carmen under the table

phil : ´´the first minute I looked at you .....´´

carm was stunned !

aha

phil finallove confession :

´´ just knowing you exist has kept me alive ´´

´´carm : you make me better at this / I wouldn´t do it without you ...´´

sydney calming carmen ......

sooooooooooooo , jeremy knows what he is saying , he just spoiled everything !!!

next topic will be ´´the true claire dunlap !´´

[fairestbeard]

"Bill fucking Murray! Bill fucking Murray"--> the story from Ceres Richie and Mickey told.

(for context, Bill Murray was the star of Groundhog day)

[vacationship]

Holy fuck.

Season 3 and maybe Doors especially is them being stuck in the same frustrating day, then subtle changes as Carmy starts to thaw and deal with himself… This will eventually build to a love confession if they stay consistent with the parallels

[thoughtfulchaos773]

What always felt the most real for me, based on my personal experience, is how Donna appears to be a more nurturing mom to people outside her own children. Maybe performative reasons, or there's a bearable distance between these other kids, where a wounded mother like Donna can pretend to be okay.

For Donna, We see this infectious mother-child relationship with Richie, where they're boisterous with each other. With Pete, she expresses love to him. The Faks love her, and Tiffany invites her to the wedding. Notice that Donna takes in the children without moms, Richie, and Tiffany's broken relationship with her mother. Maybe the Faks have a fractured family.

Some are worried about Donna meeting Sydney. But when Sydney and Donna meet, there will be some comfort on both sides. It's because she's better with 'children' other than her own, and it will be a scene that will serve Sydney's absence from her mother. Sydney needs guidance about Carmy, it's not a business decision that she can talk to her father about because feelings are involved. Donna knowing Carmy personally while at times having motherly wisdom is what Sydney needs.

Another thing Donna understands is the challenge of being the woman who has to do everything on her own while the father of the family is absent. Something Carmy keeps doing is checking out. More wisdom on that front? Sydney needs to hear the gritty about a family business- because Donna, like Jimmy, knows balancing work and family can be confusing and difficult, yet it is filled with so much love.

...I'm excited to see how the dialogue unfolds during the Sydney and Donna meeting.

[vacationship]

Hmm yes yes I resonate with this very much for Donna, intuitively but as you point out it’s certainly textual in the show that better sides of Donna come out with Richie, Tiff, Pete, the Faks. I mean that’s a lot of moments of Donna with multiple other kids when you add it all up. And now Sydney—the trailer alone gives enough to see that we are getting yet another moment where Donna opens up/provides something to a person who is adjacent to her children.

And I feel it’s so true in general that we can mother (parent) other kids better than our own sometimes. We have distance, more perspective. And kids are also sometimes more open to other adults than their own parents. This is why we need a village! Aunties and uncles and elders and even stepparents that come in later can provide kids with a different model.

But with the Berzattos it’s like Donna knows she messed up but she can feel out how she’d like to be with these other kids. IMO maybe not so much to pretend but to try it on or to find relief? Or if we want to put on darker glasses she is getting back at her children for “abandoning” her by being closer with these other kids. But truthfully I don’t really believe that, it feels like it’s a genuine way where she finds herself being the person she wants to be or the person deeper inside without all the protective responses and defenses she has with her kids. Especially with Pete—I feel like she is most honest and vulnerable with Pete.

[fairestbeard]

Delulu Opinion:

Carmy messed up the lacto ferment/marinade.

Alright bearitos, this one's controversial.

I think Carmy may have messed up the lacto ferment and marinade. In fact, I think he may have sabotaged it.

Remember how Carmy already had an asking-out fail in the locker room scene?

After that he goes home stares weirdly at his chef's coat, then comes up with a plan to get Syd in the apartment to spend time with her jam on the menu and somehow the chef's whites, which had been somewhere else, by the way, just so happens to be sitting pretty on the kitchen counter for Syd to approve see.

We all know he staged that, right? RIGHT??

There are certain things I feel don't come naturally to Carmy. He can quickly come up with a plan to fulfill an overload of orders on a bad day in a kitchen, but a sneak date on the fly? He couldn't manage imho. So it had to be something he had thought about beforehand.

"It's not ok if it's two times in a row"

The first day, when the lacto ferment was ruined he instinctively apologizes with the sorry sign saying "I must have given you the wrong count". The next day with the marinade "you marinated it too long, it's ok though" before asking them to go out for "inspiration". I feel like the fact that he had that idea ready meant that it was something he had considered and possibly planned. He even had the exact restaurant on the tip of his lips. Also look at their faces while the try the radicchio, it looks like Carmy already expected it to be bad. That's probably why he made sure to tell Sydney "this was almost perfect", because it wasn't really her fault?

Could it be that he might have thought of it but the opportunity presented itself naturally? Yes. But it's also very highly likely that he engineered that outcome as he already had done to get Syd in his apartment (bear in mind that in Sundae, Sydney found a kitchen to use on short notice and Carmy, a bigger chef with more clout and a better network, could have done the same).

This is why I think it was so hard for him to tell Claire he had plans. He could have easily said he had a work thing but he couldn't say it cause it wasn't really about work for him. He was literally scanning his to do list to look for another reasonable excuse. Because in his head it was a date but in actual reality, it was just work. Carmy is bad at being honest but he's also terrible at lying so he'll deflect or tell you some version of truth that's not the actual truth; eg his answers to Claire about the fake number, not answering about his plans just stuttering then saying "I'm in" to her plans.

I think Claire's call slapped reality onto him and scared the ever living sh!t out of him. So he went from making all these plans with Syd to avoiding her for most of the rest of the season.

[vacationship]

Like others already said, this is really not delulu at all. It’s in fact a very good read of Carmy. Love this to bits! And I have no problem or hesitation in believing it. The comment in the tag where he saw the line between cute and creepy is so interesting. Carmy seeing a little of himself in Claire?! Or he’s asking himself, wait is that what I’m doing with Syd? That’s not a take we get every day, there being a reflection between them Carmy and Claire, and yet it’s been right there and makes so much sense—they went to HS together.

The thing for me is, Carmy finding a way to orchestrate it and yet make it feel natural to the BOTH of them (which is actually always something I’ve felt about the way he asked her out for the food inspiration tour) is incredibly sweet and connected and finessed? It’s romantic. Bc Syd is a little awkward herself. It’s a class in how to ask someone out. Because that is nerve-wracking!

Also to Carmy scanning the to do list, I’ve had that thought. What he was planning with Syd was a date, and Claire was asking him to help her with a chore, so he looks to his to do list to get out of it. If his plans with Syd was purely a very important creative/menu planning tour with his biz partner, why wouldn’t he just tell Claire that? That would def be a very good work reason not to help her mom move.

Fun post!

[vacationship]

I was just reblogging @thoughtfulchaos773 but I want to make a separate post to say

Carmy is and needs to be his own peace!

Carmy was assigned to be the peace and the calm in his family from the time he was a baby. By being the Lost Child who stayed out of the fray, he made himself available for soothing and regulating the family system and especially Donna. HE was the pacifier, the peacemaker.

I think this will be Storer’s final message on this topic of who is Carmy’s peace. He is. And Sydney reminds him to be his own peace, but be there for each other.

It’s the connection that brings the peace.

What Storer has said about his relationship with Gillian Jacobs was that getting together with her, he finally found peace. I don’t think he said SHE was his peace. (Correct me if I’m wrong. Honestly if I heard someone irl say that someone else IS their peace I would have felt ick and I don’t remember feeling that way.)

Carmy found his own inner peace in Copenhagen.

By assigning anyone the role of being “the peace” as he said about Claire, he is merely doing to her what his family system did to him. And Claire’s role in life it seems is to be the person who IS someone’s peace. It’s impossible.

Tagging @freedelusionshere

@yannaryartside Carmy was the family’s anasthesia?

[vacationship]

EDIT: I said it’s impossible. It’s unsustainable. It’s possible for your nervous system/body to be used as a place for someone else’s stress, making it possible for them to feel soothed and “at peace.”

Maybe the joke about Claire being the peace/a piece (of ass) is not just Theo Fak’s sexism but that Claire is a piece as in an object, understood by Object Relations theory. @thoughtfulchaos773 the psychoanalytic theory about parent-child relationships shaping later relationships. Connecting with your note about all episodes s3 being about parent-child (and the whole series). The internal image/template/object of the parent that accounts for their later patterns of relating needs to be restructured. Calo said Carmy has to figure that out first!

[scyeschef]

Thinking about how Chris saw sydcarmies repeatedly say Syd is peace, and him flipping it on us for Carmy to say Claire is peace, but it sounded like Carm was trying to convince himself.

There has to be a reason why they decided to take that from us and make Carmy sound so unsure when talking about Claire.

[vacationship]

Oh this post probably influenced my post on Carmy and his peace! I do think Storer has done something intentional here, and at one point did he possibly become aware of fan theories linking his words about his partner with Carmy and Sydney would be delicious to know!

[vacationship]

I was just reblogging @thoughtfulchaos773 but I want to make a separate post to say

Carmy is and needs to be his own peace!

Carmy was assigned to be the peace and the calm in his family from the time he was a baby. By being the Lost Child who stayed out of the fray, he made himself available for soothing and regulating the family system and especially Donna. HE was the pacifier, the peacemaker.

I think this will be Storer’s final message on this topic of who is Carmy’s peace. He is. And Sydney reminds him to be his own peace, but be there for each other.

It’s the connection that brings the peace.

What Storer has said about his relationship with Gillian Jacobs was that getting together with her, he finally found peace. I don’t think he said SHE was his peace. (Correct me if I’m wrong. Honestly if I heard someone irl say that someone else IS their peace I would have felt ick and I don’t remember feeling that way.)

Carmy found his own inner peace in Copenhagen.

By assigning anyone the role of being “the peace” as he said about Claire, he is merely doing to her what his family system did to him. And Claire’s role in life it seems is to be the person who IS someone’s peace. It’s impossible.

Tagging @freedelusionshere

@yannaryartside Carmy was the family’s anasthesia?

[thoughtfulchaos773]

Each child's relationship with Donna is different, and each child handles Donna in their own way to keep the peace. But I often wonder with Carmy how much he had to be there for her to the point he had to leave, and Donna guilts him and makes sure to point out he left her and how hard it's been doing it by herself. No wonder he avoids.

Sydney’s situation? She can rely on her dad, but she chooses to move out because she wants to rely on Carmy just as Carmy wants her to depend on him.

The theme of not leaving Sydney alone and Sydney and Carmy keeping that trust that she can rely on him? All Donna. Donna's influence subtly affects their happiness together, even if it’s not immediately apparent. As I rewatch season 3, I notice that while we focus on Claire and Donna, Donna's impact is what haunts Carmy and Sydney throughout the entire series.

[vacationship]

Brilliant! Brava! I actually cannot wait to see how the Carmy-Sydney-Claire-Donna thing plays out. I’m excited for it—your post makes me excited for it.

My understanding is that Carmy looking at a photo of Donna holding him as a baby is intentional, bc my speculation is that Donna used baby Carmy to regulate her own inner baby/child part. We’ve said this before!

Likely from birth, Carmy was tasked with keeping Donna regulated. She was so mad and resentful of his birth process being difficult bc she really needed him to be that for her from the moment of conception. And after the painful birth, she may have felt even more owed. (Someone else wrote about this—sorry I can’t remember. Maybe @whenmemorydies or @moodyeucalyptus ?) There’s some mystery and theories around paternity, but Carmy may have been the “save the marriage” baby, which is often the case when the youngest is a good deal younger than the rest. Or if he is a child from an affair, she would have mixed feelings but still need him to regulate her.

At the same time that his role is to help her with emotion regulation, he’s also the lost child in the alcoholic family system—an avoider. That might seem a contradiction but it’s not. It’s precisely being an avoider that helps the system to regulate. Lost children stay out of the fray, and will often leave, but at the same time the family system depends on them to absorb the feelings and energies and to help de-escalate the stress. The lost child is the pacifier. They stay quiet and are seemingly less involved but they are quietly internally absorbing and managing the family energy. This is why being dysregulated and being called Donna by Richie gutted Carmy—his role has been to be the opposite. See how Carmy barely says a word at the table in Fishes. But he’s internalizing everything.

He would have been used by the family system when and only when he is needed. If he can’t help before the inevitable blowup (he was tasked to go calm her down and make her feel loved in the kitchen and bring her to the table, but it didn’t work) he will be expected to help soothe and regulate after the blowup. The rest of the time it’s best that he stays out of things. He can’t be a problem himself, because he is needed to help regulate everyone else.

Just imagine that by the time Carmy was born, things were pretty stressful in the family and Donna’s alcoholism has progressed. There are blowups, but then she picks up baby Carmy to soothe herself. Because who better to soothe her than an open less protective baby who will absorb everything? And as he grew he was assigned this role explicitly—go calm mom down. And then be began to do it without even being told. And maybe even Mikey and Nat used young Carmy to clam themselves down—the baby/toddler/child to take care of and focus on.

But Fishes was the final straw for him, so he left. And he gets blamed for it: Carmy being Carmy, like Nat says on the porch. Mikey and Nat began to think that Carmy wasn’t holding his end of the bargain, and may have never consciously understood the huge role he had to play in the family as the baby, the pacifier, in the first place. They see themselves as the little father and little mother picking up the slack, and Carmy’s role was less visible.

Man, your posts always get me thinking—thanks so much.

[vacationship]

About that teaser, about Donna and Sydney.

Sydney’s got a lot going on on her face. And that makes perfect sense given everything we know and everything Sydney knows about Donna and just how loaded this moment is. The show has been leading up to Sydney meeting Donna; and Carmy, Emmanuel. It would be weird if these two didn’t meet each other’s parents in the course of this restaurant thing they are doing. The fact they are giving it to us in s4 is telling.

A mother telling her son’s business partner that sometimes work family is closer than family family sounds like advice to me. (Sounds possibly like I know what’s going on between you two, to me, but idk.)

What makes me see this exchange as advice is because of the parallel with Jimmy giving the kids advice. To Carmy, Jimmy said be the guy, and then his uh oh when he heard Carmy had a girlfriend while trying to start the restaurant. Jimmy also gives Nat advice—let your kids take risks, don’t protect them so much. Which is what he did for them currently, letting them take a risk. Donna’s council will be just as connected to the plot as Jimmy’s advice is. It will be to dialogue that may not be explicit but will implicitly tell Sydney exactly what she needs to hear, which I believe is stick with your found family.

Donna telling her son’s business partner that sometimes work family is closer than family family is not just advice, it’s a confession or a confidence. She’s hinting at indiscretions or just how distance was created between herself and the Beef. We know Donna had bitterness and hatred toward the restaurant, just like Nat did s1. Maybe Donna is in acceptance of that now, and passing on to Sydney that that’s just the way the business is so might as well let it be your family.

Donna told Nat about her own birth stories to connect with Nat and help her frame her parenting journey. Here she may be telling (or just hinting to) Sydney about her restaurant stories, her family stories, as a way to help set Sydney on her path.

Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion because we have not seen enough evidence of it, but Donna is well on her way in her redemption arc and my gut says this is going to be a positive interaction as flawed and complicated as Donna is. The birth scene with Nat—Nat having a baby—is what causes Donna to listen to Nat, to want to understand. Meeting Sydney (and being in the background of the birth of the restaurant) is what will help Donna want to listen to Carmy. Sydney has that effect on people.

I don’t think Donna will be perfect but she will have a redemption story, it’s already happening. It started the moment she showed up at friends and family but didn’t go inside, and Pete bridged understanding and care between her and Nat by saying it must be hard for Donna to face all the people and the history.

So what’s going on in Sydney’s face? So so much. I feel that she is empathizing with Donna while simultaneously taking in and even accepting the advice. Staying at the restaurant is complicated for Sydney, staying is her growth edge. Also the huge thing about this scene is that Sydney is the work family that has been closer to Carmy (and Nat) than the family family, Donna. That’s what Sydney’s empathy is about: I’m Carmy’s family now. She gets the pain of that for Donna, and she sees that Donna is moving through it. That she will be back as part of the family now. Just like Sydney told Carmy to call Richie, Sydney may assist Carmy to be open to his mom’s progress.

If you listen to their voices in the clip it is actually quite soft. Donna’s chin up appears domineering but it’s actually protective in my opinion, because deeper inside we know she is fragile, and maybe also she’s keeping her chin up about all the mistakes she made. And Sydney’s little smile is because she feels seen, she recognizes what Donna means. The panic attack led her to start to see this.

Everybody talks to Sydney. And whenever Sydney hears from anybody, she has empathy and uplifting energy. She sees the positive side of things and reframes. I think it’s interesting that in this scene she may be getting a positive message from Donna of all people.

[sydneysrissotto]

this was my first thought as well!!!! And imma stick with it till summer.

I don't think it will be a redemption arc strictly speaking because well, it's donna, but the whole premise of the show has also been navigating extremely imperfect human beings and relationships and making as much peace as you can with the way things are. And we've had Richie go through a substantial change in a matter of one episode soooo. the relationship of this show and time are wonky ngl but if we as the audience are rooting for Carmy who has been downright ridiculous so many times, and are seeing the potential for atleast a lil change then Carmy himself must do that for the people he has been given and those that he chooses as well. That is where he will find his peace.

And that might just be the whole point of it really.

Til the season comes out lol idk, it's lord Storer and his ship then once that happens.

[freedelusionshere]

To me, Donna is 100% a Carmy problem and not a Syd one. Syd didn’t have to deal with Chef David, Carmy did that on his own.

After what Storer put Syd through in S3, I do not want Syd having to manage Donna up front. Just her own feelings, thoughts, fears, and her feelings for Carmy.

What I want is for Carny to tell his mom he’s making his own choices and she can be happy for him or self-select to not participate because he’s not a baby and he’s not Mikey.

I’d absolutely love it if that promo scene is Syd and Donna at Tiff’s wedding and you think Donna is going to drop a bomb and then she doesn’t because she has already been put on notice by Carmy (who has avoided all difficult conversations like this to this point except Chef David). It would be direct evidence he’s changing his ways and doing it to be able to be a good partner.

Not Syd having to do more emotional labor for Carmy problems.

We’re set up to not fully trust Donna. It’s glass half-full with her. A work in progress; it’s easy for Storer to use Donna to create explosive drama and would be predictable at this point. But he also gave us the Fak explosion in S3, and Claire is still lurking to put a dull on things, so who knows.

Really praying Syd doesn’t have to deal with racist micro aggression stuff like Donna did in Ice Chips. Do not want. Would sure be nice for one of her kids to have that talk with her instead.

Point being, it would be better if Donna sees a change in Carmy and can only attribute it to Syd, and knows that she has to back off and Carmy is serious.

[vacationship]

THIS! When I was writing my post about the look on Sydney’s face (empathy) I had this niggling in the back my mind too—that Sydney shouldn’t have to do that work. And I like that it’s maybe possible that in her own way Donna (or Donna’s words if I can differentiate that) may be helping Sydney further recognize her feelings about a specific member of her work family. That may not be Donna’s intention but it seems that somehow Sydney’s face-to-face with Donna could be helpful to Sydney, because her face does not look burdened to me in that scene. Even if it’s just more deeply understanding Carmy’s upbringing and then taking care of herself and having clear expectations of him. Absolutely, it should never be on an in-law (Sydney :-) to fix the family. Add in that Sydney is a black woman with a white woman MIL like Donna, no way. That’s not her job. Carmy needs to deal with Donna and protect Sydney from her microaggressions.

[vacationship]

lol reblogging again because I want to say that in-laws DO bring a chance for healing into a family system because they’ve been outside of it and they can offer something new. I wrote something about that once, and Pete is a huge example of this. But it shouldn’t be a burden on them.

[freedelusionshere]

Definitely. I agree with this. Pete had to put up with a lot of shit from Nat’s family, too! I’m sure Syd could deal with Donna and in the long-term would have to, right? But based on where things are at at this moment…

And this is speculation based on a clip edited without much context, but Syd and Carmy’s relationship is complicated by him avoiding dealing with his own stuff for 3 seasons.

The narrative is set up specifically that he’s avoided things and shown it impact his staff and his relationship with Syd, which was built on a literal agreement (unlike Richie stuff). They show Carmy confronting Chef David, which was a good step for him, and it seems to have given him clarity and perspective.

They foreshadowed Carmy doing that in his convo with Cicero who also tells him to talk to his mom. Carmy also asked Syd to the Ever dinner. The next step is to deal with Donna. They put Donna doing racist microaggressions for a reason, would be weird if it isn’t addressed.

If they make Syd have to do more work because Carmy still can’t do it, seems like going backwards again, so I don’t think they’ll do that. There will be other stuff in the way, like Syd misinterpreting his intentions, Claire popping off, etc.

Or Donna speaking out of turn and suggesting things to Syd Carmy is not ready to say for himself (very Berzatto behavior, last seen in Fishes re: Claire).

[vacationship]

Right Cicero said to Carmy to talk to Donna! Then who do we see talking to her in this snippet?! Sydney. And the shot of Carmy is him staring off per usual. It’s setting us up for Carmy’s big step with Donna, and a relationship with Sydney is Carmy’s motivation.

Agree that Donna’s microaggressions with the black L&D nurse were most likely put there purposefully, and there will be some continuity with s4.

[freedelusionshere]

To me, Donna is 100% a Carmy problem and not a Syd one. Syd didn’t have to deal with Chef David, Carmy did that on his own.

After what Storer put Syd through in S3, I do not want Syd having to manage Donna up front. Just her own feelings, thoughts, fears, and her feelings for Carmy.

What I want is for Carny to tell his mom he’s making his own choices and she can be happy for him or self-select to not participate because he’s not a baby and he’s not Mikey.

I’d absolutely love it if that promo scene is Syd and Donna at Tiff’s wedding and you think Donna is going to drop a bomb and then she doesn’t because she has already been put on notice by Carmy (who has avoided all difficult conversations like this to this point except Chef David). It would be direct evidence he’s changing his ways and doing it to be able to be a good partner.

Not Syd having to do more emotional labor for Carmy problems.

We’re set up to not fully trust Donna. It’s glass half-full with her. A work in progress; it’s easy for Storer to use Donna to create explosive drama and would be predictable at this point. But he also gave us the Fak explosion in S3, and Claire is still lurking to put a dull on things, so who knows.

Really praying Syd doesn’t have to deal with racist micro aggression stuff like Donna did in Ice Chips. Do not want. Would sure be nice for one of her kids to have that talk with her instead.

Point being, it would be better if Donna sees a change in Carmy and can only attribute it to Syd, and knows that she has to back off and Carmy is serious.

[vacationship]

THIS! When I was writing my post about the look on Sydney’s face (empathy) I had this niggling in the back my mind too—that Sydney shouldn’t have to do that work. And I like that it’s maybe possible that in her own way Donna (or Donna’s words if I can differentiate that) may be helping Sydney further recognize her feelings about a specific member of her work family. That may not be Donna’s intention but it seems that somehow Sydney’s face-to-face with Donna could be helpful to Sydney, because her face does not look burdened to me in that scene. Even if it’s just more deeply understanding Carmy’s upbringing and then taking care of herself and having clear expectations of him. Absolutely, it should never be on an in-law (Sydney :-) to fix the family. Add in that Sydney is a black woman with a white woman MIL like Donna, no way. That’s not her job. Carmy needs to deal with Donna and protect Sydney from her microaggressions.

[vacationship]

lol reblogging again because I want to say that in-laws DO bring a chance for healing into a family system because they’ve been outside of it and they can offer something new. I wrote something about that once, and Pete is a huge example of this. But it shouldn’t be a burden on them.

[freedelusionshere]

To me, Donna is 100% a Carmy problem and not a Syd one. Syd didn’t have to deal with Chef David, Carmy did that on his own.

After what Storer put Syd through in S3, I do not want Syd having to manage Donna up front. Just her own feelings, thoughts, fears, and her feelings for Carmy.

What I want is for Carny to tell his mom he’s making his own choices and she can be happy for him or self-select to not participate because he’s not a baby and he’s not Mikey.

I’d absolutely love it if that promo scene is Syd and Donna at Tiff’s wedding and you think Donna is going to drop a bomb and then she doesn’t because she has already been put on notice by Carmy (who has avoided all difficult conversations like this to this point except Chef David). It would be direct evidence he’s changing his ways and doing it to be able to be a good partner.

Not Syd having to do more emotional labor for Carmy problems.

We’re set up to not fully trust Donna. It’s glass half-full with her. A work in progress; it’s easy for Storer to use Donna to create explosive drama and would be predictable at this point. But he also gave us the Fak explosion in S3, and Claire is still lurking to put a dull on things, so who knows.

Really praying Syd doesn’t have to deal with racist micro aggression stuff like Donna did in Ice Chips. Do not want. Would sure be nice for one of her kids to have that talk with her instead.

Point being, it would be better if Donna sees a change in Carmy and can only attribute it to Syd, and knows that she has to back off and Carmy is serious.

[vacationship]

THIS! When I was writing my post about the look on Sydney’s face (empathy) I had this niggling in the back my mind too—that Sydney shouldn’t have to do that work. And I like that it’s maybe possible that in her own way Donna (or Donna’s words if I can differentiate that) may be helping Sydney further recognize her feelings about a specific member of her work family. That may not be Donna’s intention but it seems that somehow Sydney’s face-to-face with Donna could be helpful to Sydney, because her face does not look burdened to me in that scene. Even if it’s just more deeply understanding Carmy’s upbringing and then taking care of herself and having clear expectations of him. Absolutely, it should never be on an in-law (Sydney :-) to fix the family. Add in that Sydney is a black woman with a white woman MIL like Donna, no way. That’s not her job. Carmy needs to deal with Donna and protect Sydney from her microaggressions.

[vacationship]

On the topic of the Bear and therapy

I’m a therapist and I don’t need to see any of these babes go to therapy on screen.

These people absolutely would benefit from therapy, and there was a hint that Donna is seeing someone for help and I’m glad that was put in the show. There’s definitely references to Freud and various therapy concepts like self-actualizing and other things Richie says. None of what’s put in the show that’s therapy coded particularly resonates with me, lol, and that’s fine, I’m still glad it’s there artistically. As far as I’m concerned therapy can stay in the background.

Twelve step meetings are not therapy and I really really enjoy those scenes because it’s a chance to go deeper with Carmy’s healing journey. So it’s not that. But the process of someone like Carmy getting into therapy (and the time it would take) would not be done justice in a show that is trying to accomplish so many other messages about family, community, and work life within a specific industry.

Besides all this, I’m a firm believer that we can and do grow without therapy. Not everyone all the time of course. But just going through the process of life can carry us through more than we realize sometimes. Being confronted with our fears and rising to the occasion or experiencing losses and griefs and allowing ourselves to go through it. It’s the “fix it” culture that unfortunately can overlap with therapy that’s often in the way of people finding their strength, resilience, compassion, peace.

Anyway. It’s a weird thing to say maybe. While it’s not professional fatigue behind what I’m saying, it’s the joy of seeing something healing play out that is not directly connected to the work and labor of therapy. It’s a feeling of, it’s possible to get there and just be doing your best. You’re not broken. It’s a feeling of, free the therapy room as the only place where healing happens. It’s a feeling of, if you can’t afford therapy or you can’t find a therapist that you trust, you can still find yourself inside and learn from the people around you.

PSA: please go to therapy if you can when you can, you don’t need to be alone and figure things out by yourself. Sometimes therapy is a must.

[vacationship]

About that teaser, about Donna and Sydney.

Sydney’s got a lot going on on her face. And that makes perfect sense given everything we know and everything Sydney knows about Donna and just how loaded this moment is. The show has been leading up to Sydney meeting Donna; and Carmy, Emmanuel. It would be weird if these two didn’t meet each other’s parents in the course of this restaurant thing they are doing. The fact they are giving it to us in s4 is telling.

A mother telling her son’s business partner that sometimes work family is closer than family family sounds like advice to me. (Sounds possibly like I know what’s going on between you two, to me, but idk.)

What makes me see this exchange as advice is because of the parallel with Jimmy giving the kids advice. To Carmy, Jimmy said be the guy, and then his uh oh when he heard Carmy had a girlfriend while trying to start the restaurant. Jimmy also gives Nat advice—let your kids take risks, don’t protect them so much. Which is what he did for them currently, letting them take a risk. Donna’s council will be just as connected to the plot as Jimmy’s advice is. It will be to dialogue that may not be explicit but will implicitly tell Sydney exactly what she needs to hear, which I believe is stick with your found family.

Donna telling her son’s business partner that sometimes work family is closer than family family is not just advice, it’s a confession or a confidence. She’s hinting at indiscretions or just how distance was created between herself and the Beef. We know Donna had bitterness and hatred toward the restaurant, just like Nat did s1. Maybe Donna is in acceptance of that now, and passing on to Sydney that that’s just the way the business is so might as well let it be your family.

Donna told Nat about her own birth stories to connect with Nat and help her frame her parenting journey. Here she may be telling (or just hinting to) Sydney about her restaurant stories, her family stories, as a way to help set Sydney on her path.

Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion because we have not seen enough evidence of it, but Donna is well on her way in her redemption arc and my gut says this is going to be a positive interaction as flawed and complicated as Donna is. The birth scene with Nat—Nat having a baby—is what causes Donna to listen to Nat, to want to understand. Meeting Sydney (and being in the background of the birth of the restaurant) is what will help Donna want to listen to Carmy. Sydney has that effect on people.

I don’t think Donna will be perfect but she will have a redemption story, it’s already happening. It started the moment she showed up at friends and family but didn’t go inside, and Pete bridged understanding and care between her and Nat by saying it must be hard for Donna to face all the people and the history.

So what’s going on in Sydney’s face? So so much. I feel that she is empathizing with Donna while simultaneously taking in and even accepting the advice. Staying at the restaurant is complicated for Sydney, staying is her growth edge. Also the huge thing about this scene is that Sydney is the work family that has been closer to Carmy (and Nat) than the family family, Donna. That’s what Sydney’s empathy is about: I’m Carmy’s family now. She gets the pain of that for Donna, and she sees that Donna is moving through it. That she will be back as part of the family now. Just like Sydney told Carmy to call Richie, Sydney may assist Carmy to be open to his mom’s progress.

If you listen to their voices in the clip it is actually quite soft. Donna’s chin up appears domineering but it’s actually protective in my opinion, because deeper inside we know she is fragile, and maybe also she’s keeping her chin up about all the mistakes she made. And Sydney’s little smile is because she feels seen, she recognizes what Donna means. The panic attack led her to start to see this.

Everybody talks to Sydney. And whenever Sydney hears from anybody, she has empathy and uplifting energy. She sees the positive side of things and reframes. I think it’s interesting that in this scene she may be getting a positive message from Donna of all people.

[moodyeucalyptus]

Mm! You pointing out what Donna says also reflects back on her, that with her children she's not as close to them as Syd is, moves me. I Love the idea of Donna knowing how much Sydney means to her kids because of that. Her acknowledging that must be painful for her, but it is the truth.

It definitely is a tragedy what happened with Mikey, and Donna’s role in his mental health and her surviving kids' health. She seems to know that’s true too, you’re right though. From how she removed herself from Friends and Family, and the honestly thoughtful things she tried to ask Natalie in "Icechips" at points.

I also have no doubt Natalie has talked about Sydney! Jimmy might have too, since we know he’s been working w Donna on something er other. Richie might’ve said something too, since we know he’s been journaling about the conundrum of Carmy Sydney!

I’m pretty excited for this conversation. It’s long, long overdue at this point. Same with Carmy talking to Emmanuelle.

I honestly think Donna is a fascinating character because she's not a good mother, or even a good person, though I do think it matters if someone tries to at least make amends for the wrongs they've done.

I could totally see Syd helping Carmy work through the complicated feelings he has for Donna.

[vacationship]

Thanks moody! Yeah I found that insight while I was writing it—oh wow this is Donna telling Sydney that she is closer to her family than she is!! It’s so significant that’s it’s Donna saying that. And yes I get that the Berzatto and sundry family have been talking about Sydney’s entrance into Carmy’s life and those twos’ near immediate partnership and major business venture. How could they not be? Emmanuel has been all over it! (Poor solo dad, who does he get to reality check with?)

Donna Donna Donna. Me too, she is so well-written and acted as not a good person who couldn’t get a handle on herself, yet who is still managing to try to go on with life and ask questions and share some bit of something that she feels she knows. I feel like her chin up may be about finding her dignity again instead of the superiority and rage she’s relied on.

Seconds of a teaser and months to wait! But this revives the fandom a bit, that was needed… and they know it.

[vacationship]

I just have never been able to believe that the Bear won’t end with a parallel to s1 ending: Carmy and Sydney together, cooking, being a family, laughing, creating their legacy. They never know if their story is gonna make it past one season so that first finale tells their intentions. Sure, tv stories change, creators will go in a different direction, and often they lose their way and mess it up badly. Just as often the additional seasons they weren’t sure would happen are the twists and turns, but all getting us back to the intended resolution. The story begins with a tragedy but they insist it is a comedy. All will be right in the end. There’s funerals, birthdays, weddings, holidays. Life and death and everything in between. This is a family story, a community story. No one is leaving for another restaurant or shifting to a fine art career, the restaurant will pull through, sydcarmy as partners (I’m praying in all senses of the word but shipping is a raw deal so it’s hard to trust completely) will be endgame.

[thoughtfulchaos773]

It is funny initially. Sydney tried to keep her guard up and make this strictly work-related. She didn't know what she was getting into the moment she stepped into a family business, a family that's messy, dark, kind, aggressive, and incredibly sensitive.

As she gets to know the group Marcus shows he's not some guy picking on her because she's a woman in the kitchen or that Carmy is more than the angry boss. Suddenly, these relationships and dynamics become messy and become family, and she misses them. She can't quit and work at another job like she's used to —she sees just how wonderful it is to be part of a family.

Occasionally, she slips back into wanting it to be about work, but we've proven it's not simple to leave because work is suddenly becoming more personal- part of her heart.

Now, it seems like she knows it, too, and the season has less to do with a spoiler on whether Sydney will sign with Shapiro. It's Sydney accepting that this work family—Carmy's—has brought down her walls; now, what will she do about it?

[vacationship]

Yup! Shapiro offer is old news

[vacationship]

About that teaser, about Donna and Sydney.

Sydney’s got a lot going on on her face. And that makes perfect sense given everything we know and everything Sydney knows about Donna and just how loaded this moment is. The show has been leading up to Sydney meeting Donna; and Carmy, Emmanuel. It would be weird if these two didn’t meet each other’s parents in the course of this restaurant thing they are doing. The fact they are giving it to us in s4 is telling.

A mother telling her son’s business partner that sometimes work family is closer than family family sounds like advice to me. (Sounds possibly like I know what’s going on between you two, to me, but idk.)

What makes me see this exchange as advice is because of the parallel with Jimmy giving the kids advice. To Carmy, Jimmy said be the guy, and then his uh oh when he heard Carmy had a girlfriend while trying to start the restaurant. Jimmy also gives Nat advice—let your kids take risks, don’t protect them so much. Which is what he did for them currently, letting them take a risk. Donna’s council will be just as connected to the plot as Jimmy’s advice is. It will be to dialogue that may not be explicit but will implicitly tell Sydney exactly what she needs to hear, which I believe is stick with your found family.

Donna telling her son’s business partner that sometimes work family is closer than family family is not just advice, it’s a confession or a confidence. She’s hinting at indiscretions or just how distance was created between herself and the Beef. We know Donna had bitterness and hatred toward the restaurant, just like Nat did s1. Maybe Donna is in acceptance of that now, and passing on to Sydney that that’s just the way the business is so might as well let it be your family.

Donna told Nat about her own birth stories to connect with Nat and help her frame her parenting journey. Here she may be telling (or just hinting to) Sydney about her restaurant stories, her family stories, as a way to help set Sydney on her path.

Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion because we have not seen enough evidence of it, but Donna is well on her way in her redemption arc and my gut says this is going to be a positive interaction as flawed and complicated as Donna is. The birth scene with Nat—Nat having a baby—is what causes Donna to listen to Nat, to want to understand. Meeting Sydney (and being in the background of the birth of the restaurant) is what will help Donna want to listen to Carmy. Sydney has that effect on people.

I don’t think Donna will be perfect but she will have a redemption story, it’s already happening. It started the moment she showed up at friends and family but didn’t go inside, and Pete bridged understanding and care between her and Nat by saying it must be hard for Donna to face all the people and the history.

So what’s going on in Sydney’s face? So so much. I feel that she is empathizing with Donna while simultaneously taking in and even accepting the advice. Staying at the restaurant is complicated for Sydney, staying is her growth edge. Also the huge thing about this scene is that Sydney is the work family that has been closer to Carmy (and Nat) than the family family, Donna. That’s what Sydney’s empathy is about: I’m Carmy’s family now. She gets the pain of that for Donna, and she sees that Donna is moving through it. That she will be back as part of the family now. Just like Sydney told Carmy to call Richie, Sydney may assist Carmy to be open to his mom’s progress.

If you listen to their voices in the clip it is actually quite soft. Donna’s chin up appears domineering but it’s actually protective in my opinion, because deeper inside we know she is fragile, and maybe also she’s keeping her chin up about all the mistakes she made. And Sydney’s little smile is because she feels seen, she recognizes what Donna means. The panic attack led her to start to see this.

Everybody talks to Sydney. And whenever Sydney hears from anybody, she has empathy and uplifting energy. She sees the positive side of things and reframes. I think it’s interesting that in this scene she may be getting a positive message from Donna of all people.

[vacationship]

About that teaser, about Donna and Sydney.

Sydney’s got a lot going on on her face. And that makes perfect sense given everything we know and everything Sydney knows about Donna and just how loaded this moment is. The show has been leading up to Sydney meeting Donna; and Carmy, Emmanuel. It would be weird if these two didn’t meet each other’s parents in the course of this restaurant thing they are doing. The fact they are giving it to us in s4 is telling.

A mother telling her son’s business partner that sometimes work family is closer than family family sounds like advice to me. (Sounds possibly like I know what’s going on between you two, to me, but idk.)

What makes me see this exchange as advice is because of the parallel with Jimmy giving the kids advice. To Carmy, Jimmy said be the guy, and then his uh oh when he heard Carmy had a girlfriend while trying to start the restaurant. Jimmy also gives Nat advice—let your kids take risks, don’t protect them so much. Which is what he did for them currently, letting them take a risk. Donna’s council will be just as connected to the plot as Jimmy’s advice is. It will be to dialogue that may not be explicit but will implicitly tell Sydney exactly what she needs to hear, which I believe is stick with your found family.

Donna telling her son’s business partner that sometimes work family is closer than family family is not just advice, it’s a confession or a confidence. She’s hinting at indiscretions or just how distance was created between herself and the Beef. We know Donna had bitterness and hatred toward the restaurant, just like Nat did s1. Maybe Donna is in acceptance of that now, and passing on to Sydney that that’s just the way the business is so might as well let it be your family.

Donna told Nat about her own birth stories to connect with Nat and help her frame her parenting journey. Here she may be telling (or just hinting to) Sydney about her restaurant stories, her family stories, as a way to help set Sydney on her path.

Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion because we have not seen enough evidence of it, but Donna is well on her way in her redemption arc and my gut says this is going to be a positive interaction as flawed and complicated as Donna is. The birth scene with Nat—Nat having a baby—is what causes Donna to listen to Nat, to want to understand. Meeting Sydney (and being in the background of the birth of the restaurant) is what will help Donna want to listen to Carmy. Sydney has that effect on people.

I don’t think Donna will be perfect but she will have a redemption story, it’s already happening. It started the moment she showed up at friends and family but didn’t go inside, and Pete bridged understanding and care between her and Nat by saying it must be hard for Donna to face all the people and the history.

So what’s going on in Sydney’s face? So so much. I feel that she is empathizing with Donna while simultaneously taking in and even accepting the advice. Staying at the restaurant is complicated for Sydney, staying is her growth edge. Also the huge thing about this scene is that Sydney is the work family that has been closer to Carmy (and Nat) than the family family, Donna. That’s what Sydney’s empathy is about: I’m Carmy’s family now. She gets the pain of that for Donna, and she sees that Donna is moving through it. That she will be back as part of the family now. Just like Sydney told Carmy to call Richie, Sydney may assist Carmy to be open to his mom’s progress.

If you listen to their voices in the clip it is actually quite soft. Donna’s chin up appears domineering but it’s actually protective in my opinion, because deeper inside we know she is fragile, and maybe also she’s keeping her chin up about all the mistakes she made. And Sydney’s little smile is because she feels seen, she recognizes what Donna means. The panic attack led her to start to see this.

Everybody talks to Sydney. And whenever Sydney hears from anybody, she has empathy and uplifting energy. She sees the positive side of things and reframes. I think it’s interesting that in this scene she may be getting a positive message from Donna of all people.