The Odd Cherry Out

Alessandra. Italian. Back into fandom, not as much into art. Let's see.

[ferencka]

TVL ep7 was brilliant and here's why (#1)

For some reason, tvl seems to invite a wave of dislike from the fandom none of the previous seasons did and i geniuenly. Don't. Get. Why. Yes, the season has its flops because shrinking the material into 7 episodes while still including and giving significance to characters who aren't in the book takes a lot of pondering. BUT. But. but.

First, let's get something straight: iwtv is a NOT A GOTHIC ROMANCE. For god's sake, please stop calling it like that. Let's not mix up period styles, 'romance' (~early novel) components and the adjectives 'romantic' (loveable) and 'gothic' (eerie) as qualificatives etc. It is a supernatural horror. Like Hannibal level of horror. I would add, psychological (or queer, if i really wanted to label). Most aspects I'm gonna touch on are psychological. The sole purpose is not loustat, loumand or dm, so crying or complaining about not getting any 'saucy scenes' or kisses this season show a lot about misaligned viewer attitudes. Yes, and these are usually the same people that criticise the show's realistic SA rep, saying it's not needed or deeming it distasteful towards survivors. Just because you don't want something this disturbing to exist, it won't disappear from the world. Quite frankly, consent becomes very blurry in the vampiric context, so I would argue that most sexual encounters we see in the show would be considered plain violations in the real world. See? Pretty horrific, and not romantic at all. And yet again, so horribly realistic.

(I’m gonna view the 3 seasons together, as a coherent body of work that is able to stand on its own, naturally, as an adaptation of the chronicles. RJ’s logic is sometimes hard to decipher but I’m giving it my best shot. If something isn’t making sense, I’m gonna call that out as well.)

but humbly, let's dive in, let's continue.

#1/ Eternalized human experience: It is human experience that inherently shapes all vampire into the form they're going to be trapped in enternity in. For example, Louis is often mocked for being sentimental, melanchonic, too attached to his humanistic (!) humanity by Lestat and others. Ep7 showed us that no vampires are able to overstep the limitations they faced as humans, almost all cases getting more serious with the amounts of trauma they've inherited and accumulated since their turning. Selfishness, pimping, domestic and sexual abuse, rape, sexual slavery, a fear of loneliness or sickness or death, possessiveness, thirst for appreciation, love, recognition, reassurance, guidance. An obsession to control, to rein, to gain the upper, decisive hand, to dominate, to use, to eternalize the 'rotten experience' Marius uses to conquer his own narrative because, in their vampiric minds, there is no o-t-h-e-r option. Failure falls on top of failure. At the end, all vampires remain humans. No transformation took place. We have yet to encounter a sane, independent one. That's why Lestat's purgatory especially important: he, and not others we thought as better equipped for an inner therapy process like this, took the FIRST STEP.

#2/ Louis's pimp identity: As I have propagated for YEARS, Louis's human identity as a 'collaborative' Black pimp is essential to his character and now it is finally canonically proved. The practice of human Louis conforming white standards in order to satisfy his desire of ambition, personal significance, wealth and status is historically inevitable, since minorities were forced to compete within the colonial economy or market. Louis abstractly or quite literally 'enslaved' his own community, the residents of his new orleans quarter in order to rise up on the social ladder. Once, turning, he refused to conform anymore, because he partly got out of the human 'oppressed-oppressor cycle'. At the same time, he didn't consider that his newfound immunity didn't extend to his community (the lynching leading to Claudia's turning). Obviously, during the process of conforming, he's hurt just like any Black person. He's a vamp but his pimp identity influences his relationship dynamics. He knows it and what's more important, consciously utilizes it to get the upper hand, like we saw in the kitchen scene with Armand.

#3/ Armand's breakdown: Armand's character is the most realistic and painful SA representation I've seen on screen so far. No miraculous recovery, no sudden realisation, no 'speaking-out' for himself. He was born in 1481. He knows, recognizes modern terms, but cannot internalize them, cannot understand them the way we do. The abuse is normalized by not being recognized by the very people he claims to have made him happy in the past (Louis, Lestat) or even people who are capable of contextualising the vocabulary needed for voicing the experience (Daniel). The uncomfortable power-exchange hierarchy in loumand briefly touched on in previous seasons becomes obvious and very frontal. As Assad said "Armand has given up on others understanding him". Each vampire is basically a solitary confinement and Armand doesn't have a voice, doesn't have a vocabulary to express what has happened to him. Louis tips him over the edge once again. His primal instincts: "how I make this right quickly so I can avoid forthcoming punishment?" "oh god, I need to set everything right in this instant to escape the retaliation." "please, I'll do anything, quickly, just don't hurt me anymore." Complete fawning. For a traumatized individual, no clear thoughts exist in that moment. Just the frantic need to escape and to redo any mistakes they've made. All other sectors of their reality are blocked, floating, drifting, slowing down, shutting down. Armand is so deep down in this, he can only act out of hurt because that is the sole emotion capable of occassionally outmatching the burden he carries within. But make no mistake, this does NOT make him a disney level sole villain, nor villainistic.

Let's train back our minds into critically engaging with a viewed material.

Let me know your thoughts whatever they may be~🫶

[chekovbeforeyouwrekovyourself]

I think if you look at it like..

Lestat turned Louis and Louis tries so hard to deny what he is, because denial and repression is what he knows. It makes Lestat furious, to have the dark gift treated such, to see Louis still trying to play human, with the human rule set.

It leads to the fallout of their relationship several times over, which leads Louis to Armand.

And Louis doesn’t want to belong to the coven and doesn’t want to be companions and is still trying to cling to humanity.

Armand takes the fallout and bends it into his favor and Louis goes with Armand to spite Lestat.

And now in the 70’s Louis is fucking men and killing them and coming home to Armand, and Louis is telling his story to a reporter in hopes of luring Lestat back (consciously, subconsciously, whatever).

A guy he thought helped kill his daughter and then had a 3rd act change of heart.

Louis accepts his desire for Lestat, finds out the truth about the play, leaves Armand, thanks Lestat for the gift..

And with Armand who, now as a multi centuries old vampire with so much power, emulates these patterns he had with Marius.. Lestat who continues the cycle of making immortal companions out of people who for one reason or another abandon him.

The art museum and the opera.

Look at me, this is who I am.

Lestat doesn’t think of himself as a victim of abuse, Armand who knows himself to have been, but they both have ways of twisting it around. For themselves, for the side they show lovers and strangers.

Armand who was sent to replace Magnus in Paris. Magnus who gave everything else to Lestat.

Why is Lestat worthy of love and forgiveness and why isn’t Armand? Why does he get to be broken and Armand doesn’t?

Why is Lestat worth growing for?

Why is Lestat

Why aren’t I? What’s wrong with me? What did I do wrong? How do I fix it? How can I be like him?

Is that what makes you fascinating?

[professional-rat-eater]

“otherwise Armand would be there.”

This is what I am telling you guys. Thank you yet again, Sam. It is never Lesmandover or Loumandover. We can never lose if you ignore all the times that we’ve lost.

[iwtv-theories]

"You were sold into what you were sold into. I saw that a lot running the houses I did. We didn't really talk about it..."

Armand: " I cannot be SURE, the abuse at the brothel was such he cannot be SURE that's what his parents named him." Louis in the same ep: "You SURE about that, Arun?" Armand: "yes, Maitre". Armand in that same episode also put the Stein photos in the pile to fuck with Louis' head and ask him : "Are you SURE about that?" . YEAH ... when people say the role play was consensual , I'm like yeah , but 'dubious consent' is a thing too. Armand at the very least had subconscious resentment for the whole thing.

"Who am I Louis? Am I the past I've endured? I do not know anymore". Louis the following ep: "I'm the vampire Armand and my daddy groomed me into a little bitch." .

Armand: "Louis' tri-annual, fuck off ... with apologies to follow." Louis laughing back sarcastically: "I'm sorry". Armand (after Louis flung himself into the sun): "you said the worst things you ever said to me". Louis : "so-sorr- sorry". Armand: "meaningless word." Because Louis right before this said he didn't remember their verbal argument before he went into the sun. Louis: "Arun, you need a love that will cradle you. you should have that .And I was never that for you. And I'm sorry.

Armand to Louis in s3: "I think I'm a room without walls , floors, or ceiling... an infinite nothing." Armand laughing at Louis' life philosophy in the 40s: "Evil is just a perilous gulf one falls into after the FIRST sin? Only one sin is needed? That's your argument?" Louis: "kind of... it's dark and it's empty and I can't see the bottom of it. Armand in the 70s: "My FIRST memory I was being rundown by slavers , my second... a black hole." Armand post-paris adopted Louis' bleak philosophy, but his initial rebuttal to Louis in Paris was :" Aren't there gradations to evil... surely there are variations of goodness?" Louis in s3 admits Armand's life philosophy was a better philosophy to live by. There's variations/gradients to good and evil in every person. Louis : " I didn't want to look at my own sins... You have reason to be dark-sided.. but I did see good in you." Armand: then immediately lets Regina go and tells Rashid to reattach Louis' head.

I wish the 2 could have sincerely apologized to each other (and in a way where Louis didn't have to lose his head). The writers may have been trying to show that even when someone like Armand is doing truly "evil " acts(and feeling trapped in the hole) he can choose to do "good" and get out of it . I just wish it was executed more sensitively. But the symbolism in the apology, was poetic, none the less.

[cloudabserk]

i hate marius terribly but a lot of people portray him as the worst thing that ever happened to armand or his sole trauma and i think that’s a mistake. if anything, his 12 years with marius (only 2 in the books!) being relatively pleasant (compared to what he went through immediately before and after) shaped a lot of his present issues. like oh the Awful relationship that Hurt me was the only time in my life i was having fun and not being tortured. we should do that again!

[miraculan-draws]

costume/cinematography, Armand

AnOTHER THING about how they dress Armand so deliberately: Fake Rashid wearing open necked deep cuts to give the Intentional Illusion of Submission vs Armand wearing open necks because he's the baddest bitch vamp in every room he's in—therefore when he's wearing a high neck it's plain that he's being secretive/avoidant/guarded. We knew that part, Carol did tell us that.

BUT ALSO, now that we've seen him out and about more,, he's in a headspace closer to Children of Darkness

Armand dresses in vERY loose-fitting clothing, (polished! intentional! very trendy in menswear right now, so it never looks sloppy. reminds me of "mode" street fashion in japan--where disguising or changing the silhouette is the whole point) in very muted colors that almost intentionally do nothing for him. Even black looks too bold on him—we get these charcoal grays and army greens and dull navy hues that don't do anything for his coloration, as though he is hiding and trying to melt into the background.

But the thing is, they could put him in a burlap sack and he'd look phenomenal. and THAT!! feels like the point.

"Armand's ability to seduce was almost entirely outside his control" or thereabouts quote

He is so lovely that he CAN'T melt into the background without literal supernatural aid. All it does is make his face stand out like a framed cameo, like all the warmth in an entire shot might be from his face and his eyes alone, which then draws the onlookers gaze DIRECTLY TO HIM.

(Compare this to Paris in the 40s, where he dressed VERY fashionably and with a lot more color variance--even with a few accessories that drew attention to his eyes. He was peacocking! He wanted Louis to see and notice him.)

(Then shoot to 1973--the entire episode is shot in this hazy green/gold fog, which we have been told in previous seasons are meant to be Louis' colors. Even Armand is DRESSED in Louis' colors. But what stands out to the viewer (Daniel sharing our POV) is what DOESN'T blend in--Armand's eyes, looking directly into the camera. The "rest" scene, they've changed the temperature of the lighting to match.)

[venelice]

I may be alone in this, but — I kinda get where she's coming from?

The Loumand story we always tell is: Armand is the manipulator, Louis is the victim. Armand who directed the play and messed with Louis' memories. And yeah, all of that happened, I'm not denying it. But underneath the manipulation there's another layer we kind of skip right over: Armand was the one who loved Louis. Louis never could - that's what he was admitting. He didn't love Armand, not the way he loved Lestat, not really at all. And yet he didn't leave Armand, and made sure that Armand wouldn't leave him.

In Paris, Louis stayed with Armand for what Armand gave him - the freedom to do whatever he wanted without the coven coming for him, protection, someone to put in Lestat's place. Armand stayed because he actually wanted Louis, wanted something real with him. That's not symmetry. That's Armand exposing himself in front of his coven (are you companions? yes, lol no) and Louis just using the shelter he got out of it. And the whole time Louis was somewhere else entirely - Lestat still living in his head, the ghost that never left, the one he kept reaching for anyway. It still wrecks me that the man who hadn't been painted in 500 years thought he was finally being photographed - while Louis was just trying to catch Lestat on film.

And after the Trial (and trust me, I could say a LOT about Armand's motivations during the Trial) the two of them just... tie themselves together. A loveless thing that was never about love in the first place - it was Armand trying to make it up to Louis for 70 years knowing it would never be enough. While Louis hated every second of it. Even Lestat knew Armand would be tortured by the whole situation. And still, Louis was his entire world, and without him Armand had nobody at all.

None of this makes Armand's manipulations and torture okay, to be clear. But "manipulator vs. victim" is such a kids' version of what these two actually were to each other. They were two profoundly damaged people who hurt each other in completely different ways, but who hurt eachother nonetheless.

[hopecel]

claudia and armand are in their female rage era this season good for them

[venelice]

I have always felt armand got claudia in ways nobody else could in the books, and that's why he killed her. I think that is true of the show too.

[bed-bugg]

TVL SEASON FINALE SPOILERS: Book Context

. . . . . . . . To those confused about Louis' apology and where it came from (at least I'm assuming this is what that scene was in reference to)

"And, from time to time, Armand would ask me to take him there. And I, being aware in a gentlemanly manner that I did little to please him and often went for long periods without really speaking to him or seeking him out, wanted to do this because he asked me." Louis, pg. 320 "And it was amazing to me that it took such a long moment to see Claudia's face in that attitude; Claudia, as she stood by the bed in the room at the Hotel Saint-Gabriel pleading with me to transform Madeleine into one of us. That same helpless look, that defeat which seemed to be so heartfelt that everything beyond it was forgotten. And then he, like Claudia, seemed to rally, to pull on some reserve of strength. But he said softly to the air, 'I am dying!' And I, watching him, hearing him, the only creature under God who heard him, knowing completely that it was true, said nothing." Louis, pg. 333 "She never loved you, you know. Not in the way that I loved you, and the way that you loved us both. I knew this! I understood it! And I believed I would gather you to me and hold you. And time would open to us, and we would be teachers of one another. All the things that gave you happiness would give me happiness; and I would be the protector of your pain. But you're dead inside to me, you're cold and beyond my reach! It is as if I'm not here, beside you. And, not being here with you, I have the dreadful feeling that I don't exist at all. And you are as cold and distant from me as those strange modern paintings of lines and hard forms that I cannot love or comprehend, as alien as those hard mechanical sculptures of this age which have no human form. I shudder when I'm near you. I look into your eyes and my reflection isn't there..." -Armand, pg. 334 "'What you asked was impossible!' I said quickly. 'Don't you see? What I asked was impossible, too, from the start'." Louis, pg. 334 Parts of Armand's speech here was mentioned in the S2 finale when he chases after Louis. After this back and forth Armand leaves Louis as shown below.

Turning this into the brutal scene they did was certainly a choice. This chapter is sad because it's the recognition that Louis is no longer the same, that he has been forever changed. That their love was doomed and Armand is suffering for it. That the very thing Armand loved most about Louis he snuffed out himself. But to turn it into torture? Questionable at best. Idk. Book fans, how we feelin'? Thoughts?

[venelice]

ARMAND TOLD THE TRUTH, 2

I know I said "Armand told the truth" was about the Great Laws, but now that I've read the finale synopsis and seen the frames someone posted on reddit from the opening credits… I'm starting to wonder if it's actually a subliminal message about something not adding up in Lestat's narration — like Armand really was telling the truth all along. Like... Lestat is narrating but the visuals are telling us that the narration is wrong. Like the fact that Armand told the truth about something Lestat is lying about is haunting the narrative and Lestat will have to face it in the finale...

Do I dare to hope?

[venelice]

I was referring to these by u/buffysmanycoats on reddit, btw. If you check the writing on the walls in the next image, the font seems to be the same.

[venelice]

ARMAND TOLD THE TRUTH, 2

I know I said "Armand told the truth" was about the Great Laws, but now that I've read the finale synopsis and seen the frames someone posted on reddit from the opening credits… I'm starting to wonder if it's actually a subliminal message about something not adding up in Lestat's narration — like Armand really was telling the truth all along. Like... Lestat is narrating but the visuals are telling us that the narration is wrong. Like the fact that Armand told the truth about something Lestat is lying about is haunting the narrative and Lestat will have to face it in the finale...

Do I dare to hope?

[inlovewithquotes]

I know nothing, because I know too much, and understand not nearly enough and never will. But this you taught me as much as any other I've ever known, that love is necessary, as much as rain to the flowers and the trees, and food to the hungry child, and blood to the starving thirsting predators and scavengers that we are. Love we need, and love can make us forget and forgive all savagery, as perhaps nothing else can.

-Armand

[inlovewithquotes]

That is no mystery unto itself, the making of Daniel. Loneliness will always inevitably press us to such things. But I was a firm believer that those we make ourselves will always despise us for it. I cannot claim that I have never despised Marius, both for making me and never returning to me to assure me that he had survived the horrible fire created by the Roman Coven. I had sought Louis rather than create others. And having created Daniel I saw at last my fear realized within a short time.

-Armand

[inlovewithquotes]

Ah, well, great systems give comfort, and when we feel ourselves slipping into despair, we should devise great schemes of the nothing around us, and when we will not slip but hang on a scaffold of our making, as meaningless as nothing, but too detailed to be so easily dismissed.

-Armand

[platoapproved]

“I was the leader of my coven!” “No. You were the slave of Marius and then of the Children of Darkness. You fell under the spell of one and then the other. What you suffer now is the absence of a spell. I think I shudder that you caused me so to understand it for a little while, to know it as if I were a different being than I am.” “Doesn’t matter,” he said, eyes still on the fire. “You think too much in terms of decision and action. This tale is no explanation. And I am not a being who requires a respectful acknowledgment in your thoughts or in words. And we all know the answer you have given is too immense to be voiced and we all three of us know that it is final. What I don’t know is why. So I am a creature very different from you, and so you cannot understand me. Why can’t I go with you? I will do whatever you wish if you take me with you. I will be under your spell.” —THE VAMPIRE LESTAT

[venelice]

We have been robbed so much :/

[awhitetulip1997]

I’m so disappointed with the lack of Armand in this season. This is the book where we get a deeper look into his character because he reveals himself to Lestat in a way we didn’t see in the IWTV book and IWTV show.

Armand is his most unraveled and honest in his time meeting Lestat and Gabrielle in Paris. He is shown as both extremely cruel and powerful when killing his deserters and as fragile and vulnerable when recounting his time with Marius and Santino.

He was playing the gentleman vampire with Louis in Paris and his volatility was only uncovered in the flashback to San Francisco because of Daniel. So far after five episodes of TVL, Armand has done barely anything to better explain the way he is and to give the audience a chance to sympathise with him. I don’t care about the great conversion that much and I’m super annoyed that they scrapped all his 18th century Paris time to make him hang out with Daniel in random places for 5 minutes tops for two episodes straight. And if you want him to be the villain then make him more violent and sinister. Even his ‘rest’ speech to Larry was 2-3 minutes at most. I would have liked more time with them together.

I like all his romantic relationships with Daniel/Lestat/Louis equally but where is his interiority outside of these relationships?? I also hate this active choice by the writers to paint him as unloveable or unloved this season. This is so out of canon and I’m not sure if there is a purpose for this… It feels targeted to remove the love and desire these men have for Armand. His calling card in the books is that all people see is his beauty and charisma and to remove that to the point where I’ve seen non book readers speak about him as a pick me and loser who no one wants??? I hate it and I hate this choice.

[bifauxnenarmand]

what pisses me off about that interviewer asking sam why lestat doesnt just kill armand is that The Vampire Lestat, the book this show is supposed to be an adaptation of, literally answers that question