I love that the artists in Clair Obscur needed to make a handsome old man and just made Pierce Brosnan
This was exactly my thought. The first time I saw him.
i don't do bad sauce passes
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@vinff7
I love that the artists in Clair Obscur needed to make a handsome old man and just made Pierce Brosnan
This was exactly my thought. The first time I saw him.
New objects up on my shop! This isn't all of them-- there's lots more (and a few restocks)!
"Why didn't Renoir just--"
Part of the tragedy in Clair Obscur is that the 33rd expedition enters a situation on the continent where all the parties involved have been atrophied into their respective roles. They've been playing these parts for so long that they don't intend to deviate and they don't trust change.
Painted Verso doesn't trust enough to reveal his true intentions, so he keeps secrets. Painted Renoir doesn't trust enough to risk making new allies, so he doesn't negotiate. Painted Alicia doesn't trust enough to believe a better future is achievable through her own actions, so she offloads the duty to act onto others.
It's like joining a play where everyone else has the script, and you don't. Even though another story is possible, the people with knowledge are too blinded by their own history and tragedy to push for that alternative.
Painted Renoir is the most striking example of this. He could've tried every single year for 67 years to reach out to the Expeditioners. He could've spent decades guiding Lumiére directly towards knowing the truth and fighting their real enemy. He could have min-maxxed his way through the situation like he was in a litRPG trying to optimize his chances against the Artist Renoir.
But he does none of those things because he's an old man who loves his family, and he's scared of losing more than what he's already lost.
100% agree, and when it comes to painted Renoir, I really wish we had more of an insight into what happened around expedition zero to make him so stuck in his ways. Obviously huge thing that made him decide to ignore the city is his son getting tortured by these people. (then later his daughter getting captured too.)
But what shit was Clea stirring that in Vero’s journal talking about him getting tortured and having to kill Julie he wrote that painted Renoir thought Julie was one of Clea’s creations?!? ma’am what fucking mind games were you playing with these poor people? XD
Yes, he’s stuck in his ways, loves his family more then the world, but also apparently been driven to really weird paranoia by Clea doing something!
Some Lore Tidbits from the Artbook:
(thank you to @asaara-writes and @liulyam for helping with the translations!)
Renoir was already a painter before meeting Aline and had a habit of staying in canvases for too long due to his creative passion, described explicitly as a tendency towards self-destruction.
Aline came from a more noble family than Renoir.
Alicia was the main victim of the writer's plot and Verso died in the fire while trying to rescue her.
Aline is consumed by guilt for failing to protect her children and Alicia's state after the fire haunts her mind for her inability to help her youngest.
Before the fire, Aline is described as dreamy, charming, passionate, and a little stubborn. She exudes a natural aura of leadership and confidence, interspersed with deep sadness and a cold determination.
Aline painted Verso first, and then Renoir. Lumière was created to give the Painted family a sense of normality and to give Verso a "beautiful and healthy living environment."
There is a cardinal rule for Painters in the real world where creating a copy of a real person, especially without their knowledge or consent, is considered an ethical violation.
Ok I was watching a video from Hello Future Me about the phycology of Kora, and the psychological concepts they talk about really made me think of characters from Expedition 33, mainly the Dessendre family, so I’m posting a large rant lol.
(Low key so much makes me think of that game it is so good and the characters are all so complex!)
Spoilers under the cut
saw your tags on the "would the Paintress have a Smeargle" poll and i WANT to know your thoughts about E33 character Pokemon teams 👀
Sorry it took so long to respond to this! I have many thoughts on this subject.
Okay for starters, the Fading Boy has one pokemon, and it’s Arceus. He’s just walking around with God in his pocket. Don’t worry about it.
This whole thing started about Aline having Xerneas and Renoir having Yveltal, so we’ll go into them next. They have an unfairly stacked team of legendaries and mythicals, because of course they do.
Aline:
- Xerneas, the granter of eternal life! Whether the recipient wants it or not!
- Smeargle. It’s a painter. Aline is the most powerful of the Painters. Smeargle is her silly little guy. She did give it stupidly good stats and an insane moveset.
- Mesprit, the Being of Emotions, for the lady who is primarily motivated by grief!
- Jirachi, the granter of wishes. It has been known to create artificial pokemon as part of a wish. Yeah, that’s an Aline pokemon.
- Lurantis. From the Violet entry: ‘A lot of time and effort is required to maintain the vivid colors of its petals. This Pokémon puts its Trainer's attentiveness to the test.’ It fits Aline’s obsession with realistic detail, and her love of plants/flowers as evidenced by her connection to the glasshouse.
Renoir:
- Yveltal, the opposite of Xerneas. It absorbs life force from all living things. Seems like a good fit for Renoir ‘Extinction Event’ Dessendre.
- Solgaleo. Big fuckoff lion.
- Uxie, the Being of Knowledge. Contrasting Aline’s Mesprit, for the man who wants his family to face reality!
- The last three are just his Axons:
- Ho-oh for Alicia. He wants her to fly, and a phoenix that is reborn from fire seems like a good fit for Renoir’s wishes for her.
- Regigigas for Clea. An absolute beast that was said in legends to have towed the continents on ropes, for the daughter who bears the weight of the family.
- And lastly, Ogerpon. The mask pokemon. Has a whole bunch of masks. Was mistreated by humans and its true nature is misunderstood. Who on earth could that be about. And speaking of—
Sometimes you just gotta stay up real late to draw your fav you know???
Bonus silly drawing beloooow
Started as a cool pose idea, it became a full fanfic through drawing :v
Which is your favourite? I personally like the second one, Renoir and his two baby girls :3 proud girl dad.
Bonus:
The Mask Keeper is Renoir's Counterpart for Visage *Spoilers ahead!*
To start, each Axon that Renoir has painted of his family members has, seemingly, had a metaphorical counterpart to himself and how he views himself in relation to that family member: with the Reacher he's the green orphelin, always trying to construct ways for Alicia to fly, with Sirene, he's the Tisseur, a being entranced and always in service to her, spinning her dress so that she can continue to dance and mesmerize. We don't know if he had a counterpart with the Hauler as likely Simon killed him dead just as hard as Clea's Axon. But with Visages, it's a little less clear, as the Expedition comes to the conclusion that the real axon is the Mask Keeper following the defeat of Visages, but I raise you this instead:
-The Mask Keeper isn't the Axon of Verso, he's Renoir's counterpart-
To begin, I'd like to talk about what an Axon seems to represent, because the decision to call them 'Axons' in the first place is very interesting. An Axon mainly refers to the structure found in Neurons, nerve cells, which connects the main cell body to the terminal synapses which interact with other neurons, it looks like this:
But, what does this structure have to do with the Axons found in the game? It could be because, like the axon of a nerve cell, it connects Renoir's view of his family members into the canvas. Clea quite brutally severs that connection into the canvas by directly killing her own Axon via Simon, and it's implied that she doesn't directly ever return to the canvas afterwards, that connection between the painted and real world has been cut, for her. Another interesting factoid- the origin of Axon comes from the Greek word axōn meaning axis, in reference to the midline of the body upon which it turns, the line upon which one would flip an image to mirror it.
"But we get the chroma needed for the barrier breaker by defeating the Mask Keeper, not Visages" you might ask, but I think that Visage isn't as powerful because, similar to Clea's Axon, the connection is one-sided, Real Verso is dead so this mirror has no subject and thus no substance. There are a couple reasons why I think the Mask Keeper isn't the "real" representation of Verso, but I think narratively it is the 'axon'. I'll start with this reason:
Mask Keeper's Demeanor and Dialogue
This is the first thing that gave me pause, because something he says during the fight is something I wouldn't associate with a representation of Verso, this line in particular->
The fact that he calls the expedition "Child" seemed very strange to me, something that I wouldn't associate with anything representing Verso, no matter who painted it, because it's so... paternal, but also old? Then I looked through some more dialogue he says during the fight and this jumped out ->
Because this is almost word-for-word what the second unknown Journal entry says, which is implied to be Renoir speaking to Verso
Mask Keeper also only comes out after Visages is defeated, almost as vengeance for him. Which, we know that Clea wants to free Renoir from the canvas in order to wage war together against the writers, in recompense for Verso's death, implying that, were he not preoccupied in the canvas he would be seeking revenge along with Clea. Aline did also paint him as very protective after all, how much of that was true to life?
We meet Mask Keeper almost immediately after the first flag on Visage island. He invites us in to meet Visages in his "chambers", on behalf of Visages, almost like a loyal retainer or butler. This behavior is similar to the other depictions of Renoir with the other axons, that he is in service to his family, that he lives to help and "serve" them, in particular maybe this depiction is how he felt in Verso's life, leading opportunity to him, inviting offers and fielding discussions, trying to lead him to maybe take up a more active role in painting, rather than music. Speaking of, my next point for why the Mask Keeper is Renoir's counterpart is that Visages is unequivocally representative of Verso, like there is no doubt about that, which only gives the option that, according to the pattern, Renoir's counterpart is Mask Keeper because he's the only other named boss enemy.
Visages Design and Behavior
Visages design is very interesting because, mainly, I think Renoir managed to depict him (Verso) quite accurately. One mechanic of the fight that I didn't get to see, because I killed him too fast I guess, is that if Visages attacks with all his available masks, he just straight up dies, you don't even have to get his health bar all the way down, he just falls over. It's very funny, and also like, very poignant, like geez.
Like he just gives up. But this is also interesting because it gives us a good look at his model, and it's weird. Mainly because, despite being the "stronger" axon according to Verso, Visages looks worn and damaged while Sirene the "weaker" axon looks pristine. Parts of Visages seem to be crumbling and breaking apart, especially around the end of his body there. His middle mask is crumbling and has holes and cracks everywhere ->
Considering how pristine all the other axons and Renoir's counterparts are, I don't think this is deliberate on his part. I think Visages is crumbling because it's a mirror without a subject, with Verso dead, there isn't any real subject for it to be about except for Renoir's own memories and of Verso, which might be fading or untrue. Its subject is an unreliable source and unlike the other axons, it doesn't have the opinions of its real counterpart to solidify it, no matter if that representation is accurate or not having that animosity makes an artwork more real. It's this inaccuracy, with its crumbling facade, that makes the Mask Keeper the more accurate depiction, and thus the actual "axon", with the concentration of Chroma to prove it.
Another point as to Visages being Verso's representation is that Visages is summoned in Renoir's final boss fight, not the Mask Keeper. Renoir paints all his family members as larger than life, because that's how highly he thinks of them, it's quite sweet, and it's why they are all so dang tall. Visages fits with the rest of the axons a lot more than the Mask Keeper does from a design perspective for sure.
Well that's all I got. I heard that initial dialogue from Mask Keeper and just thought, "Wait a minute..." and everything spiraled from there. Hope this makes sense to you guys? I'd love to hear some more thoughts if anyone has any, because the axons are really interesting to me!
I have various scattered thoughts about Painted Renoir and Painted Alicia's relationship shown in their scenes so am going to attempt to consolidate and dump them here along with screen shots I enjoy.
I guess I choose to believe that someone Renoir loves so much wouldn't be an absolutely terrible mother to her daughters, and also, I choose to believe that both Clea and Alicia wouldn't be so fond of their father and have respect for him if he loves a woman who is a terrible mother to them
I very much agree. I’m trying to give Aline more slack because I know I’ve been judgmental of her before.
This game is set during a time when Aline is at her absolute worst and I think pre-game she turned Verso’s canvas into a place where she could privately try to process all of her chaotic feelings about her child’s death and other child involvement in that without involving or hurting her actual family.
But then because she got so attached it ended up getting everyone involved, turned into the game, and us players essentially ended up seeing her Vent journal and decided to view it as her true character, not the occasionally shameful thoughts she’s trying to work through during the worst part of her life that got WAY out of hand. I think her not having a mental breakdown self is a much better mother and person then we get shown in game. 
Spoiler thoughts about the painted family especially Clea under the break.
OK, I love speculating about the painted family before the events of the game. And I noticed that there’s a split of people who think that Aline made them as completely true to form as possible, altering nothing, and those who think that she made tweaks. (I flip-flop, the idea of her changing them adds so much juicy sad drama that I love it too much to fully abandon.)
I see this especially around painted Clea because of Simon. I 100% understand the urge to make her either A-romantic or lesbian, and the drama around ‘my perfect version of you is you but in a heteronormative relationship’ from Aline is so juicy. So the presence of Simon means either Clea IRL is dating Simon and we don’t see him, or Aline did tweaks.
However, I offer to you a third option I thought of this morning. I’ve been trying to give Aline more of the benefit of the doubt lately so we are going with the idea that she changed nothing, painted them as true to form as possible. And Simon is a post fracture acquisition for Clea.
Why would she get involved in a romance during an apocalypse you ask? Well, in my head cannon, the painted family hung out in Lumiere for at least a couple months post fracture while the city gathered supplies, got slightly back on its feet, and the search and rescue mission got created. Clea did not kidnap Painted Clea on fracture day. And Painted family doesn’t know they are gods favorite and have magic powers yet.
During that time Renoir was very sad and angsty because he needed to go find Aline. If there was a chance she was alive and out there he had to search for her. Damn his lack of experience fighting monsters or outdoor survival skills, his desperate longing for his wife would see him through.
And Verso people pleasing mama boy that he is decided to also join, because two people with zero experience are surely better than one. He would contribute so much to keeping Renoir alive. The concert pianist, and an old painter with a limp will surely survive all the dangers.
Seeing the boys of her family being idiots but also knowing she wouldn’t be able to convince them to not to search for Aline, Clea decides to seduce Simon! the most anime protagonist of the entire city so that way he would feel obligated to protect her family while they wandered around the woods.
So it’s very pure love from Simon’s point of view, very ‘will probably dump him once he gets back with her family alive’ on Cleas end so she can be whatever sexuality people want her to be and still Simon/Clea is real and not a fucked up thing from the mom!
Is this shifting bad implications from Aline to Clea? Potentially? But like, I feel it gives Clea more control and agency over the situation so it feels a lot better then their romance being a forced upon painted in thing.
“If saving you means losing you, then so be it.“ ▬ RENOIR
Clair Obscur: Expedition 33.
trying to explain to anyone who will listen that I truly believe to the bottom of my heart that this old man of the baleful, malevolent, villainous eyes has the Platonic Ideal personality and I genuinely really admire him as a person. you don't have all the facts. (which are?) I love him. I did not just start to crush on the first murderous wizard I saw in the story, it's deeper than that. he's also very hot
I don't think this really holds up, but a theory I kick around is that Painted Alicia is really Re-Painted Alicia, and the Original Painted Alicia was both in color and unscarred
Aline was permitted some time to grieve in the canvas before Renoir became desperate to extract her. She was not the same woman we fight on the top of the Monolith then. She was lost in grief, but was she *that* lost? She blamed Alicia for what happened, but did she want to punish Alicia more than she wanted to bury her head in the sand altogether? Would she really step into the canvas and on day 1, with absolutely no opposition or outside pressure, deliberately paint a big inescapable undeniable reminder of the worst anguish she'd ever experienced?
If Aline originally painted Alicia with scars (forget greyscale for now/see tags), what is the in-canvas explanation for this? The Painted Family lived, loved, etc in (Old) Lumiere. There would *have* to be an explanation for the rest of the family and the neighbors. Another fire? Would she have made herself live through even half the trauma again just to build the set? Or, would it have been easier both technically and emotionally to instead paint her family exactly as they were on December 32nd, and let them resume their lives as she felt they deserved to live them.
Which includes Alicia, because Aline does love her despite everything. They may never have been close, they may never see eye to eye, and Aline definitely was never mother of the year, but on this day 1, when her only goal is to banish the family's pain and grief, that includes Alicia's.
So say she originally painted an unscarred and full-color Alicia, and it was only when her reclaimed life began to fall apart again that she lashed out and painted over her daughter, stealing her color, scarring her face. Renoir wanted Aline to face reality so bad? Well, how about *that* for reality. The Painted Family becomes then as the real one is: fractured. Clea lost to them, Verso caught in a web of grief, herself and Renoir at war, Alicia set apart and in pain.
And about the greyscale, there are only 2 other people like that: Painted Clea and Simon, both known to have been repainted. When (Re)Painted Clea is defeated, her eye is shown returning to its normal color because the re-painting is only a veneer; inside, she is still as Aline made her originally: in color.
And when Painted Alicia asks Maelle to send her back to her family, which is very conspicuously the the *only* time she's shown opening her mouth? Her tongue is pink.
I do love the idea that Alicia is repainted, and am stealing this and adding it to my own head cannon. My only addendum (based on next to no real in game evidence) is that Clea might have been the one to re-paint Alicia.
She jumps in and out of the portrait a few different times so has the means, and motive of not viewing the painted family as people and wanting to snap her mom out of it. Could have also been an attempted wake up call of ‘Hello? Remember this is how your daughter actually looks, also I have to take care of her since you are playing here!’
Plus Painted Renoir being paranoid that the Search and Rescue team torturing Verso being Clea’s fault would make more sense if she has actively antagonized the family directly multiple times.
I feel like I already have enough reason to dislike Aline without adding her purposely crippling Alicia after drawing her as whole to start with. Clea being the one to do it seems less cruel somehow.
This is speculation about who created this Nevron so putting thoughts under the spoiler cut.
CRACKSHIP
Ok my brain is on some 2 AM juice. Interested in MHA and Arcane right now, and my brain connected the idea of Ambessa the twink hunter and in canon S-tier twink Hawks meeting and banging in under 20 min. I just can’t get the idea of Ambessa being super demanding and Hawks just rolling with it and helping to immediately escalate things.
And now whatever unfortunate souls read this have to think about it to, you’re welcome