Maester Theomore, tell them! @witchbeyondthewall - Tumblr Blog

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This blog was supposed to be called BitchBeyondtheWall, because I'm a very bitchy person, but I didn't want to be crass so I ditched it for the next best word.

Stupid info you don't really need to know about me:

English isn't my first language, so if I say anything that sounds off that's probably the reason.

I'm just here to reblog the stuff I must reblog away from my main. My mutuals can't know that I'm into asoiaf, they'll draw and quarter me (justified).

creaturepeaches

i hate it when i can tell my perception of a character is diminishing in real time because of fandom wank. like nooooo i want to maintain an objective relationship with the text but everyone is so annoying about you nooooo

#literally half of asoiaf characters #even the ones I think aren't good leaders or good people #(like Stannis or Dany in my opinion)#I find to be extremely interesting characters worthy of being acknowledged for that #but holy fucking shit #this fandom #like holy fuck #I can't even find the words to articulate how gruesomely fucked up this fandom is in how many different ways #ugh

fromtheseventhhell

Catelyn saying that Sansa is pretty: Absolutely infallible, a declaration from god himself, it absolutely has to be the truth, there can be no room for argument, etc.

Ned saying that Arya is pretty: He was just doing it to make her feel better, he was just being nostalgic about Lyanna, he can't be trusted, he's biased because he's her father, etc.

fromtheseventhhell

The moment where he tells her she looks like Lyanna/is pretty is when he is comforting her about Mycah being murdered, so I would really like to know the logic behind the idea that he only said that to make her feel better when that wasn't even the point he was making. Apparently this was what happened though:

Arya: My friend was murdered and it's all my fault, if I hadn't asked him to play with me then-

Ned:

#Arya Stark #Ned Stark #Lyanna Stark #Fandom Critical #like that wasn't Ned's point at all it just stuck out to Arya cause she was bullied for her looks and was rarely called pretty😭#he was saying that Lyanna's wild nature lead to her being dead before her time and that's why Arya needed to grow up and change her behavio #this is basic reading comprehension so it is pretty hilarious how often this scene gets misinterpreted #but no Ned just said that she was pretty/looked like Lyanna to make her feel better for some random reason #<- so true prev

People who defend Dany as some feminist hero who is mistreated by the misogynist fandom cannot, for the life of them, acknowledge the racism inherently built into her chapters, can they?

#Not a good thing coming from a society all too used to erasing Central Asians I'll tell ya that much!#If you go “People are so sexist to Dany! They say that she's a tyrant despite her having been a sex slave!” I beg you to learn #what a slave is #and look into historical methods of erasure and racism against Eurasian Steppe peoples OK?#people dislike Dany's storyline for many other reasons than “They MUST be sexist >:(”#like how the author is expressing charicaturishly racist beliefs through her chapters #and I need you to listen to me when I say that Valyrians having originally been from Essos does not stop this from being an issue #I see people go “Dany isn't a white outsider! GRRM said he might have made the Targs non-white if he had written the series 20 years later!”#and I need you to understand that that doesn't change jack shit #because George didn't do that #he wrote the series when he did and in the way he did #Dany is still described as white in the canon text of the books Martin *actually* wrote before he made that *hypothetical* statement #she's still played by a white woman in the popular live action adaptation of those books #and also because frankly #it wouldn't fucking matter even if Dany was non-white #because the way other non-white people and especially the Dothraki are treated by the narrative is still racist #especially in comparison to her #non-white people are well capable of being racist and regurgitating racist stereotypes themselves #believe me you come to understand that really quickly as a Central Asian navigating the global internet #it's also important to not forget the fact that the author is still a white man from the west #so it doubly doesn't matter if he wanted to make Dany POC or not #the way his white ass treats the Essosi is still very racist and orientalist #and there's a context to that racism and orientalism in the form of his white and westernness #that context doesn't go away because of the races of his characters in-universe because we're talking about his out-of-universe prejudices

gaysquaredwrites

See the flipside of that post is that whenever a potentially gender nonconforming woman or girl actually exists in popular media people very quickly tell on themselves. People will start saying things like “(x) character can’t be gnc, they’re empathetic and kind which are feminine qualities!” or “I think it’s actually more subversive if this female character is almost entirely traditionally feminine because I don’t understand what subversive means!”

Forreal y’all will start saying the wildest shit. That or you all think a femme girl with a short haircut is butch. 0 in between

#You know why I'm reblogging this I know why I'm reblogging this #we all understand right #this fandom is so shitty

The world outside of Central Asia, primarily westerners, owes us a fucking apology btw. You owe us an apology for every single time you've ignored and erased us, for every single time you've swept our struggles under the rug, for every single time you refused to listen to us about our own history, for every single time you took our oppressors' word for anything relating to us. You owe us a big, fat apology, but I genuinely doubt you'll ever become self-aware enough to give it.

#whatever

I have so many ideas for a Stark-centered prequel, but this fandom is filled to the brim with boring idiots so I doubt many would appreciate it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#I have ideas for Free Folk-centered prequels too but for some reason (!) I have a feeling asoiaf-ites would appreciate that even less #whatever #House Stark #Fandom Critical

Look, there are a lot, a lot of things to criticise Martin's handling of the Dothraki for, but oh my fucking god... him making them nomadic and 'tribal' isn't one of them. You can't keep regurgitating this idea that being nomadic and clan-based makes a culture lesser-than, and depicting someone that way is an insult. That was Eurasian steppe nomads' actual way of life, one some central and north asian peoples still stick to — you can't imply that that way of life is insulting to be associated with in the same breath as criticising Martin for being racist against us. Like, that argument isn't treating central asians and Mongolians any better than GRRM does.

#I don't know how to tell some of you that you are still using the same racist-against-steppe-nomads framework as GRRM #there's also the way they hesitate to mention the fact that Martin based them off of Mongols specifically #because the west is so racist against Mongolians and it's so normalised #that to specifise that Martin's being racist against Mongols here would make it sound like it isn't an issue #and since even the people claiming to be progressive and anti-racist refuse to unlearn this idea #they just skirt around the word Mongol like it's a tabboo #they just say he based the Dothraki on 'ancient Asians' or whatever #Asia is wide and diverse #*which* ancient Asians #be specific I dare you #I keep expecting westerners to do better only for none of you to ever actually deliver #GRRM critical #anti asoiaf fandom #anti Daenerys Targaryen #just so that Dany fans don't see this and go “See I told you Dany's chapters aren't an issue!”#no they are #it's just that it's not the Dothraki being nomadic that's problematic

I also don't fucking understand how people can come to the conclusion that there's no ethnicity-based discrimination in-universe in asoiaf, and that certain stans only say that to "make every slight against their faves look like racism." ...There's no way to put this kindly; are you fucking illiterate?

Are these people not reading the language with which Northerners and Dornishmen are described? Were you skipping over the parts where one narrator or another describes the Dornish to be hot, mysterious, and dangerous; And the parts where they describe the Northmen to be uncivilised, wild, and savage? Those statements map cleanly onto existing prejudices against certain cultures in the real world. That is a clear demonstration of discriminatory and/or prejudiced sentiment among some of the populace, at least. Even if they were the whitest people to ever white, the scorn they recieve would still be discrimination.

Instead of calling it 'racism', you could call it xenophobia or whatever else, but it's undeniably there. Like, I don't know what to tell these people. Here, have it from the canon text, since that's how we 'own' people in this hellhole of a fandom

"One is hot and one is cold, yet these ancient kingdoms of sand and snow are set apart from the rest of Westeros by history, culture, and tradition. Both are thinly peopled, compared to the lands betwixt. Both cling stubbornly to their own laws and their own traditions. Neither was ever truly conquered by the dragons. The King in the North accepted Aegon Targaryen as his overlord peaceably, whilst Dorne resisted the might of the Targaryens valiantly for almost two hundred years, before finally submitting to the Iron Throne through marriage. Dornishmen and Northmen alike are derided as savages by the ignorant of the five 'civilized' kingdoms, and celebrated for their valor by those who have crossed swords with them." - TWOIAF

These words are coming from the mouth of Archmaester Brude, by the way, who was Dornish himself. How much clearer do you want it to get?

(I lied, I know why those people come to that conclusion. They do it so that their faves don't look racist.)

#it baffles me how anyone can overlook that #is the argument against the acknowledgement that sometimes Northmen are treated badly on account of them being Northern #that Northerners sometimes say mean shit about Southerners too #because if so what about the fucking Dornish then #they're treated much the same way by the South without much of the same bitter reactions from the North #like it's just so stupid #you don't have to call it racism if you want to #nor do you have to headcanon the North as POC*#but there is textual evidence of a difference in treatment between how Northerners and Dornishmen vs Southerners are recieved #* I only mention the North because when it comes to Dorne their non-whiteness isn't a matter of debate or interpretation #the author himself says they're based on the Moors do these people not know who the Moors are #race in asoiaf #fandom critical

People who throw subtle shade at Lyanna have no business liking any of my posts, I'll tell you that much

#The fact that she was beautiful literally drives y'all nuts doesn't it #like beauty is an oppressive construct that rewards conformity and you just want you faves to win that slippery slope of a contest #because you have also fallen for that oppressive construct and take part in actively enforcing it #so you want your faves to be the most beautiful because if they aren't you have to admit to yourself that beauty doesn't mean shit #but admitting that means admitting that you have been wrong and being harmful all this time #so it's easier to just go 'Lol my faves prettier than yours actually' like that means anything

witchbeyondthewall

Westerners will be westerners, I guess.

witchbeyondthewall

Like, no matter their identity, background, occupation, degrees, qualifications, and any other political stances, westerners will always be westerners, with all of the implications that come with that. And it's so, so tiring.

#I expected better but I wish I could say that I'm surprised

Westerners will be westerners, I guess.

dickroyfingersucking

i am once again asking where is all this media everyone is talking about with strong masc lesbians

#’its so nice to FINALLY see a soft feminine girliepop be gay!!’#’FINALLY theres a physically strong woman character whos feminine and straight!!’#WHERE!!! are all these strong masc lesbians!!!!!!!#<- prev #PREACH #OH MY FUCKING GOD #people are STUPID STUPID about this topic #ugh

Man, I just don't care.

Literally nobody actually cares about Central Asian problems, man. A lot of self-proclaimed leftists are actively doing their best to make it seem like they aren't eal problems, or 'not that bad' or 'not as bad as minorities have it in the US', and it makes me feel like we're so, so alone. Look at my leftists dawg, we're never getting to the bottom of any issues ever.

#Like at a certain point I guess I just have to accept that Central Asian voices will just be invisible to most people forever #not to be a doomer #but there's no use in denying the material reality #people who are supposedly all for social justice don't give a fuck about central and north asians #because our problems don't fit into their narrative that the west is always the height of everything #even when it comes to having something bad #claiming that the US always has something the worst is just as US defaultist as claiming that they have it the best #I'm so incredibly tired man

susandsnell

"uh having female protagonists in period pieces who reject gender roles inelegantly DEVALUES the WORK DONE BY WOMEN --" labour never should've been divided on gender lines so let's start there

#Thank you THANK YOU OH MY GOD #I'm convinced people just turn their brains off when discussing this

witchbeyondthewall

Holy shit, this fandom is so racist, and these books are so racist, and the author is so racist... and nobody ever actually talks about it. They only talk about the racism, both in-universe and in the fandom, when it benefits their arguments, when it makes one character or fandom to be worse than the others — AND AUTHORIAL RACISM PEOPLE JUST DON'T TALK ABOUT.

You people genuinely have to be fucking allergic to criticising Martin. No matter how you approach the text, and Dany, and the story, the way the Essosi are depicted is still unfathomably racist. For the vast, vast majority of the books, the only perspective we have into the peoples of Essos is a white girl. The east is written to be chock full of mystery, magic, sex, and violence, which is cookie cutter orientalism. The Dothraki aren't even given a culture beyond violence and them serving Dany. We do not get a full Essosi POV until Melisandre and even then her relevance to the story is through the western characters. This is not people just pointing fingers and going 'Dany white', this is a big problem and fault on the author's part. This doesn't change if the story or Dany's character goes a certain way, this doesn't change if the text is 'trying to do something else, actually.' But the majority of the fandom is people born and raised in the west, so they just don't want to get it. Fuck.

witchbeyondthewall

And I will concede that some people only talk about the Dothraki because they dislike Daenerys, but I can't stress this enough, THE WAY THEY, AND THE ESSOSI IS GENERAL, ARE DEPICTED IS STILL A PROBLEM. You do not get to handwave that off. You just do not. It's such a cartoonish level of casual racism, and you don't get to ignore it simply because your favorite character is at the heart of it all.

witchbeyondthewall

Literally ALL sides of this fandom are rampantly racist, but as a central asian and middle eastern person this trend within Dany's fandom frustrates me the most. Dany fans genuinely just chicken out of making an actual point against the racism and orientalism asoiaf's engages in simply because it relates to Dany and her chapters the most, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE MAKING A POINT ABOUT RACISM IN FANTASY. Like get a fucking grip, oh my god. If you're gonna be a coward about it, you shouldn't have started talking about the racist tendencies of western fantasy and fiction in the first place. Because you're not acting much different to the thing you're criticising right now.

witchbeyondthewall

And going 'You guys are allergic to criticising GRRM' is the only good way to phrase this, I think. Because since Martin is a god who is immune to having any sort of bigotry or prejudice, who is a genius immune to making mistakes or having faults, the racism present in the text can't be authorial and so has to be a character thing. But if the racism is a character thing, then that means this character I like is racist. But that character can't be racist, I like them. So the way people react to this loop, I guess, of not wanting to acknowledge that the author may have racial prejudices, but also not wanting the racism to be a character flaw because they like the characters it's associated with, is to find a million ways to say 'You CAN'T talk about this'.

witchbeyondthewall

This fandom is also really weird and ignorant about central asians in general, but that's just the entire fucking world so it's my fault for expecting any better.

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Maester Theomore, tell them!