It's Time To D-d-d-d-dddd-DUEL

TMA, since all you shitstain teemies keep showing you're inherently transmisogynistic by calling me a man over and over again.

[yuugiiohh]

Tumblr really shouldn't let you be able to just select a new blog from a drop down menu to interact with if someone blocks a side blog of yours. But not my fault the site fucking sucks.

[weapon-of-mass-feminization]

maybe if they dont want to be called mras they should stop acting like mras

[weapon-of-mass-feminization]

notice how i did not mention a single one of my ideological stances or even specifically what group i was referring to. and yet i am still being called a transphobic man-hater who is opposed to reproductive rights and seeks to divide the community because i hate transmascs

[yuugiiohh]

You literally tagged this as "transandrophobia". Motte and Bailey ass argument. That's literally what you're describing as MRA behaviour. Oh well, every accusation is a confession after all right?

[phosphorusab]

I hate this saccharine, cloying, infantilizing way trans men are talked down to by their own community when speaking about the words they choose to describe their experiences and oppression

‘Oh yes, you do experience a valid intersectional form of oppression - but you’re just so fucking stupid, that you’ve chosen a terrible word to articulate your experiences. So we aren’t going to listen to anything you say! You’re just so silly and stupid, you can’t possibly be trusted to articulate your own thoughts and experiences, let alone be trusted to do your own research. In fact, don’t even think or talk at all! Leave all the thinking and talking to the smart people whose suffering actually matters.

Also, no your experiences aren’t unique at all, negating the previous statement of you experiencing a valid intersectional form of oppression’

The tone of voice is no different than when people try to manipulate trans men into detransitioning - overly sweet, infantilizing and concerned while also being incredibly backhanded and demeaning

Nothing will ever be good enough. I just roll my eyes at this shit now

[techiekittie]

God forbid women do anything omfg. When transfems try to explain delicately and nicely they’re being “infantilising”, when they’re direct and serious they’re “rude” and “aggressive”.

Nothing will ever be good enough. I just roll my eyes at this shit now.

[yuugiiohh]

Hit dogs holler

[yuugiiohh]

"Binary cis man" I somehow doubt that

[yuugiiohh]

Some of y'all fall so fucking quickly to tme tactics and transmisogyny as soon as a trans women has a different experience to you. It's fucking disgusting. "Protect your sisters but not the ones that you don't like :((( actually fuck them they deserve to have their accounts termed and die"

[yuugiiohh]

Literally y'all are so quick to unperson and degender and misgender me because you disagree. You could just not do all that.

[yuugiiohh]

Some of y'all fall so fucking quickly to tme tactics and transmisogyny as soon as a trans women has a different experience to you. It's fucking disgusting. "Protect your sisters but not the ones that you don't like :((( actually fuck them they deserve to have their accounts termed and die"

[sunsetinfinity]

come to dropout tv, where we have:

✅️ copaganda

✅️ jokes that trans women are pedos

✅️ one (1) appearance ever by a trans woman who is now starved for work

✅️ no other transfemmes

✅️ a conspicuous overload of TME people

✅️ several TME trans people.

✅️ like, so many TME people it's kind of glaring that there are zero transfeminine people on the show once you notice it

✅️ nepo product of the fascist american empire running the show

Dropout TV: "Comedy For Liberals" ™️

[samthecatgirl]

"So many TME people" I mean, uhhhh... Isn't everyone who's not transfem TME? Or is TME being used as a standin for transmasc again? (I don't know, I don't watch Dropout)

[sunsetinfinity]

yes thats correct.

[samthecatgirl]

Then isn't that phrasing redundant?

[yuugiiohh]

There's been multiple trans women and transfems on dropout multiple times? They have one transmasc, though, who I'm not even sure identifies as such actually. Zero trans men.

And of course it's mostly going to be TME people if you're also talking about cis people, because cis people make up 99% of the earth's population? What? If you want to only watch things with TMAs then go support and watch trans women who make content instead of spending the time you could be supporting us complaining that this one company doesn't do what you want?

[thingsisaidweredumb]

the fact that sweetheart wants to watch barbie with me tomorrow specifically because i've been on a feminist kick lately is just the sweetest and hottest thing in the world

he's like "i see you getting amped politically and intellectually, let me meet you in this space" and like THANK YOUUUUUU 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰 ugh he loves me and also what's hotter than feminism ya know?

[yuugiiohh]

Ah yes, the barbie movie. With the famously transmisogynistic ending where because she's a "real woman now" she goes to the gynaecologist. Of course. Hashtag feminism

[yuugiiohh]

Another teemie once again calling me a man, this time the cherry on top is that apparently I'm a trans man pretending to be a trans woman. Ah yes, the demographic likely to not want to be called and seen as women are going to pretend to be women online for internet points. Sure. I've got like, three followers. None of this means or does anything.

Also I didn't actually send that anon I was just fucking with you because you immediately thought it was one of those disgusting bitchy tboys I mean misogynistic gross MEN ewwwwww lmao

[msh2o2]

"You can't be a lesbian, you're a man trying to trick lesbians into dating him, it's disgusting," but then trans men literally expect lesbians to date them and nobody bats an eye.

"If you're trans and a lesbian aren't you really just a gay man?" but again, trans men are in lesbian spaces calling themselves lesbians and nobody is out here saying that this invalidates their transness at all, actually.

"Trans women are dangerous men invading women's spaces and taking resources away from real women," actually, women in women's spaces is normal. But if you're worried about men in women's spaces, you might want to look at the 145 trans men you invited in ahead of me.

"No lesbian wants to be with you, you look like a man," except that I look more feminine than Charles there did even pre-transition, and your tongue's halfway down his throat, so clearly that was never the issue.

"Men are invading women's restrooms!" Well you're not wrong, but the trans demographic doing this is not the one you think it is. Also, stupid thing to be afraid of.

"Biological advantage in sports!" Extremely stupid claim, doubly so considering trans women's testosterone levels are generally lower than a cis woman's. Sure, results may vary, but if we're actually claiming that having testosterone is the equivalent of taking steroids, then there's a whole group of people injecting the stuff weekly who have a standing invitation to compete with cis women in sports.

"Trans women are sex pests" well we're not the trans demographic running sexual harassment campaigns against women, actually.

[yuugiiohh]

Trans men don't expect lesbians to do anything, actually.

Yes, people say this all the fucking time, actually. You'd know if you spoke to trans men, like, at all.

Would love an example of a "woman's space" that isn't either 1. Excluding of trans men, or 2. Shouldn't be a "woman's space" in the first place. Where are these 145 trans men. I need to know.

Yes this is transphobia. That person is being transphobic to both you and poor Charles who they clearly do not see as a man.

I don't have anything to say to this other than its nonsense. Trans men don't want to use women's restrooms. It's dangerous for them. Again, talk to trans men.

Trans men cannot play in most high level professional sports if they're on testosterone HRT because it's a steroid and therefore a performance enhancing drug. Those that had, played on women's teams as a woman pre-transition, and later stopped playing sport altogether and retired after coming out. Except for that one teen guy who was on a woman's wrestling team in high school; he didn't retire, he got kicked off the team. He was not on HRT.

No, you're running harassment campaigns against trans men. Black trans men who are sex workers, to be more specific. This whole post is just one huge piece of transphobia.

[aradiabot612]

transandrophobia believers who believe that trans men cannot have male privilege because they might get clocked / don't always pass, do you think a trans woman Gains male privilege by being clocked? do you think that trans women gain male privilege when they don't pass?

[yuugiiohh]

No, that's called oppositional sexism. It's very easy to see that anyone who isn't a pericis man doesn't have male privilege because being pericis is what it's predicated on.

[aradiabot612]

do you think white cis able bodied men with adhd do not experience male privilege

[yuugiiohh]

.... can you read? I literally said pericis men experience male privilege. You just said a cis man. I think you might be stupid

[aradiabot612]

sorry I got really badly threatened right before this. sorry for not reading the pericis part carefully. I can read i was just not in the state at the time

Also, male privilege is based on being percieved as a man and the privileges that come with it? Both Trans and Intersex men can be periceved as men by society? Someone isn't gonna ask "are you intersex or trans" immediately to every passing man at the start of every conversation before valuing them higher based on perceiving that person as a man [subconsciously or not]

[yuugiiohh]

Sure, we can talk about the interpersonal benefits a very specific subset of trans men can get because people mistake them for cis men. But that deference isn't being given to them because they're trans men, because the system of patriarchy - the thing that grants these systemic privileges - does not view trans men as men, and instead views them at best as tempestuous females daring to try to escape misogyny.

That interpersonal - which is not systemic - deference is given because people do not know the trans status of these men. When people know this, that deference and conditional benefits go out the window, and trans men are put in danger.

Also, if your argument is that "these people experience male privilege because some people assume they are cis men and treat them as such because of outward appearances" then you are also arguing that closeted/non-transitioning transfems and trans women have male privilege on this basis. Hopefully you understand why that isn't true and positing that we have male privilege is transmisogynistic. And I assume this is the very thing you're trying to argue against in your original post, which is why the rest of what you're saying doesn't hold up to scrutiny either. "People who look like men except for closeted trans women for some nebulous reason" doesn't hold any logical weight.

I'd also like to point out the parallel between a stealth trans man and a closeted queer person. Just because people assume the closeted queer person is not queer, does not mean they suddenly have heterosexual privilege. Just because people assume some trans men are cis, does not mean that they actually have meaningful access to male privilege. Both people in this situation can hide their identities to escape bigotry and oppression, and may even be able to experience some interpersonal benefits from people assuming they are part of the dominant class, but being able to do so is still not a privilege in any structural or material sense. Queer activists have spoken about how being closeted is not a privilege for decades.

The reason people think trans men have male privilege is because of their identity, but their identity doesn't have material impact on how they are treated by structures at large. You cant "hey/they pronouns" your way out of structural misogyny and transphobia. And so therefore we must envision male and masculine identities that fall outside of the hegemonic pericis hetero white supremacist patriarchal ideal of manhood and masculinity. Because these expressions (trans men and transmasc) are very real and authentic, even if they are not recognised as such by - and therefore not given the privileges of - patriarchy.

[yuugiiohh]

Holy transmisogyny and transmedicalism???

Trans women don't "socially operate as men" we operate as trans women, even if we're closeted??? Being a closeted trans women means she's still experiencing transmisogyny? There's a reason some trans women are still closeted. I'm not a male I don't experience male privilege even if other people don't know or think I'm a trans women yet. It's not like they treat closeted trans women like men anyway, we all know this. At best we're not performing masculinity well enough (because we aren't men) and they know that.

"Transness pretty much requires transition anyway" cherry on top. What about nonbinary people who can't transition because their gender goals are different? What about trans people who can't transition for medical reasons? Safety reasons?

[aradiabot612]

transandrophobia believers who believe that trans men cannot have male privilege because they might get clocked / don't always pass, do you think a trans woman Gains male privilege by being clocked? do you think that trans women gain male privilege when they don't pass?

[yuugiiohh]

No, that's called oppositional sexism. It's very easy to see that anyone who isn't a pericis man doesn't have male privilege because being pericis is what it's predicated on.

[aradiabot612]

do you think white cis able bodied men with adhd do not experience male privilege

[yuugiiohh]

.... can you read? I literally said pericis men experience male privilege. You just said a cis man. I think you might be stupid

[aradiabot612]

transandrophobia believers who believe that trans men cannot have male privilege because they might get clocked / don't always pass, do you think a trans woman Gains male privilege by being clocked? do you think that trans women gain male privilege when they don't pass?

[yuugiiohh]

No, that's called oppositional sexism. It's very easy to see that anyone who isn't a pericis man doesn't have male privilege because being pericis is what it's predicated on.

[kayla-denker]

Does pointing out that black trans women are more oppressed than white trans women — that white trans women benefit from white supremacy and can leverage it to harm black trans women — mean that white trans women aren't oppressed?

No?

Then you already understand how trans men can benefit from male privilege, how they can leverage it against trans women, how trans women can be more oppressed than trans men, without believing that it means "trans men aren't oppressed."

[yuugiiohh]

No, i cant understand that. You're talking about people who are oppressed on a different axis (race) vs people who are oppressed along the same axis (gender). How can someone who is oppressed along the same axis have power over another on the basis of that axis? Because that means you're saying trans men don't face transphobia and are in fact beneficiaries of it. Which is just demonstrably untrue.

Can you give me a real systemic tangible example of how trans men as a class (not individual trans men - all of them) have material power over trans women as a class (not individual trans women - all of them)? You must cite your sources as well.

[fucktoyfelix]

Why do people have a problem with the terms "transmisandry" and "transandrophobia"? Because misandry and androphobia are anti-feminist terms created by violent misogynists in the 2000s and 2010s. Mens' right activists from this era are like the gender equivalent of "white lives matter". They often advocate for violence against women. You do not want to be associated with that. If you as a transmasc person need a term to talk about the unique ways that you experience transphobia please use: "trans-emasculation" or "anti-transmasculinity"

[yuugiiohh]

Good thing the word is transandrophobia then! Almost like changing the word entirely changes the meaning. Unless you think, idk, misogyny is about soybean paste because it has the word miso in it?

[yuugiiohh]

Nah I'm done arguing with transmisogynists that always reveal themselves in the end. Ooh the scary trans woman is totally dominating the conversation and talking down to you and being a great big male I mean misogynist. Sure.

If you're going to ignore basic material facts that I'm repeating over and over again in exchange for your own fanfic then I'm not going to bother. "You aren't addressing the points" because you keep ignoring material reality. If you can't even agree that trans people are oppressed because of their gender then I'm not going to address your ridiculous points ad nauseam.

[yuugiiohh]

Also imagine saying transitioning is what makes you trans.

Should've known I was dealing with transmisogynists from then.