50 Shades of NaruSasu @50shadesofnarusasu - Tumblr Blog

There was a shooting in Munich, Germany. People are advised to stay at home, however, parts of local transport have come to a halt and are stuck in areas which aren’t considered safe. Reblogs are very much appreciated. Stay safe.

#munich #deutschland #münchen #germany #Kranke Welt ... Da wird einem erst so wirklich bewusst wie verwundbar man im ach so sicheren Deutschland doch eigentlich ist ...

izzyisozaki

I find the allegedly accurate translation as clear as day. She wanted to ‘attack him’ (or whatever else) at night while he still was recovering. It’s not like Sasuke wouldn’t have been able to deal with it, but this is still a sign of sexual aggressiveness, which you are trying pass off as mere comic relief or, worse, as something innocent cos ‘ambiguity and this panel with 'to attack’ (in English without the Japanese correspondent) from Part 1.’ As women you would probably be irked by such behavior from men, so this turning her into a feminist model of sexual awareness to educate the 'asexual naive’ male is extremely irritating, as if there were no basis behind the negative reception to such characterization. There was a hint that she had a fetish for things he used in the same chapter, explaining the satisfaction on her face in having a garment drenched in his sweat. All these things indicate a clear willingness to invade his privacy, so there’s no need to dance around what is meant to be understood easily. My perception to this post was only worsened by the parallel to Sakura who, one too many times, invaded Sasuke’s space (though not wrongfully in the referenced scene.) Most people have these kind of desires that are harmless when acted upon if there’s consent, but you can’t simply write off the implicit, aggressive nature of such actions. Just like that other part of fandom you “stretch” things to fit your fandom outlook, using realistic thinking and then claiming to have recourse to fictional archetypes, never really reconciling the two, cos of course, that’s the tactic. By creating distinctions you attempt to redefine the questionable act in order to dismiss it entirely, despite it being straightforward and simple: she wanted to make an advance on him at night while he was still recovering. That is the context, and there are readers that, believe or not, don’t enjoy sexually aggressive characterizations the same way as you do.

singingtyphoon-deactivated20200

Hi. I don’t usually intrude on these things but I think this is important enough to merit a discussion. Before I start, I want to say that what the OP said comparing the Karin quote to the Sakura quote is not something I agree with at all. Making comparisons like that isn’t relevant or helpful, and it’s not something I find worth arguing about in any capacity. We’re not here to play “red is better than blue”. What I want to discuss is the Karin quote only because of the widespread misunderstanding based on ambiguous translations. I speak Japanese and I have many friends, family, and acquaintances who are also native speakers. Some read Naruto, but most do not. The translations that follow are both my and others’ interpretations, a mutually drawn conclusion that satisfies the interpretation of the average Japanese reader of this manga.

Firstly, I agree that the connotation here is sexual in nature. Karin is attracted to Sasuke and she’s not denying it to herself (this is a thought bubble, not something she said aloud to any other character). This is nothing new. Her exact words are:

重五と水月が寝入ったら寝っ込みのサスケを襲ってやるぜ！

“While Juugo and Suigetsu are sleeping, I’ll pounce on an unawares Sasuke!”

I translated the 寝っ込み part as “unawares” because, while the kanji literally means “within sleep” it is not necessarily literal. This phrase is used to describe an incapacitated person, such as someone who is very drunk, dizzy, or physically weak. In this case, Sasuke was very weakened after his fight with Deidara.

The issue here is the word 襲う。This word means “to attack, assail, or assault with the element of surprise.” That surprise part is essential, which is why I translated it as “pounce”. This word is used in such contexts as a tiger pouncing on a zebra (a surprise attack), to give some background. This word can be used with sexual undertones in certain contexts. Karin’s inner thought is one such context, and it is simply another reminder that she is sexually attracted to Sasuke.

Your issue (and correct me if I’m wrong) seems to be that her comment implies that she wants to sexually abuse Sasuke in some fashion. To quote you:

There was a hint that she had a fetish for things he used in the same chapter, explaining the satisfaction on her face in having a garment drenched in his sweat. All these things indicate a clear willingness to invade his privacy, so there’s no need to dance around what is meant to be understood easily.

I’m assuming you mean that “what is meant to be understood easily” is that she is ready to practice some form of aggressive sexual assault upon Sasuke, something he wouldn’t consent to that would make her a “rapist” or an “abuser” in some way. That is entirely false, and here is why.

As many others have said before me, Karin is sexually attracted to Sasuke and that is okay. That is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. Her thought here is just that: a thought. It is a fantasy that is never acted upon. She never even expects to act upon it because we immediately see things getting back to normal after this panel, business as usual.

Have you or anyone you know ever seen an attractive person (or someone you know and are attracted to) and thought to yourself, “Man, I would totally do him/her” or “Wow, I wish I could hook up with him/her”? Perhaps even in more graphic terms? I have, and I’m positive a majority of people have had similar thoughts at some point in their lives about another person. That is exactly the purpose of this panel: Karin is having a private fantasy about wanting to be with Sasuke sexually. She doesn’t voice it aloud, share it with others, or act on it. It is an unattainable fantasy, and she knows it.

The reason why Karin stans view this quote as comic relief is because they interpret it as a fantasy that is a facet of Karin’s tsundere characterization. She shows her softer side to Sasuke in private, as we’ve seen, but it’s always been non-aggressive and innocent:

And then she extricates herself immediately when Suigetsu walks in:

It’s clear from this scene that Karin is attracted to Sasuke and she isn’t afraid to show it even in front of him, but she isn’t trying to force him, coerce him, or otherwise manipulate him into being with her physically. She’s not that kind of person. In fact, she pulls away from him when Suigetsu enters without a fuss. If she truly wanted to assault Sasuke, she would have incapacitated Suigetsu instead of leading him astray (knowing he would find them eventually) and perhaps done something to incapacitate Sasuke, too. That’s how date rape works in the real world, but that not what’s happening here or at any time in the manga.

Back to the 襲う thought bubble, it’s in line with this behavior because it’s a private thought that reveals an inner truth (her real sexual attraction to Sasuke), but it’s never something she’s acted upon, attempted, or felt bitter about. No, she’s never been with Sasuke, but clearly that’s not going to upset her or drive her to extreme measures, such as the sexual assault/invasion of privacy you are suggesting:

Most people have these kind of desires that are harmless when acted upon if there’s consent, but you can’t simply write off the implicit, aggressive nature of such actions.

You’re missing the point: no one is trying to write off her thoughts. We are acknowledging and accepting them. What’s important is that she doesn’t act on these fantasies. She doesn’t even attempt to act on them. As you yourself have just said, most people have these desires. Is it wrong to find someone so appealing that you wish you could be sexual with them? No, it’s simply human nature. Are people who have these desires inherently bad people simply because the object of their affection is unaware of such a fantasy involving them? No, and it’s not fair to pass that kind of judgment. If we take your logic as a rule, then anyone who has ever fantasized about being with another person is a sexual deviant who merits some degree of scorn. That is ridiculous. It is unfair to classify her as sexually abusive, a rapist, or inclined toward sexual violence in any way simply because she had a singular thought about wanting to hook up with Sasuke. LIke I said above, it’s an inner fantasy that is not meant to be taken literally or as a real threat. Further:

Just like that other part of fandom you “stretch” things to fit your fandom outlook, using realistic thinking and then claiming to have recourse to fictional archetypes, never really reconciling the two, cos of course, that’s the tactic. By creating distinctions you attempt to redefine the questionable act in order to dismiss it entirely[.]

There is no “stretching” going on here. It’s a factual translation and comparable to a realistic context, as I noted above. No one is dismissing the fact that this quote denotes Karin’s sexual attraction to Sasuke or her fantasy about being with him, and if they do they are wrong; in fact, I am supporting this claim. But to take it as literally as you have and to demonize Karin for having this thought is to blow it entirely out of proportion.

…[S]he wanted to make an advance on him at night while he was still recovering. That is the context, and there are readers that, believe or not, don’t enjoy sexually aggressive characterizations the same way as you do.

Yes, that is the context and as I have already explained that it is not as horrifying as you are implying. There are words for “rape” and “sexual assault” and “abuse” in Japanese, and 襲う is not one of them. While the context is sexual here, it is not malicious and it is not threatening, nor is it meant to be interpreted in such a way. You and others are perfectly free to dislike this panel and no one should stand in your way. Everyone has different ways of expressing attraction and fantasizing about being with another person, and that is totally fine. But while you are free to have your opinion, it is not fair to claim this quote as something it is not. Doing so grossly misrepresents Karin’s character, the intention behind the writing, and the meaning of it in the context of the story.

blue-analytic

Excellent post. I would also like to add that this scene can be also interpreted as “making a move on him”, or “going to seduce him” if we were to consider the context. So nothing about rape, and there’s always the possibility she could have asked Sasuke if he were interested in whatever she had in vision. So this “rape” accusation is a hasty conclusion, and there’s nothing that can support that. As you’ve already demonstrated, Karin isn’t the kind of person to force Sasuke against his will. If he says ‘no’, she respects that.

Sincerely blue-analytic

#nothing to add here #excellent post #sasukarin #karin #pro karin