a sapphic ace tired of exclusionists claiming they care about aces like me who are "appropriately LGBT" to turn around, shit over my orientation, harrass me, and decide they know my experiences better than I do. Dont expect me to be nice to you if you are rude to me first. If i dont reply its because I have you blocked on my main, and cant see your reply (or i think you a rebelbaze, who automatically gets ignored because they dont have anything of worth to say, thats why they have a million urls, because when people realise its them they know to stop listening) var sc_project=11600357; var sc_invisible=1; var sc_security="770c73d8"; var scJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://secure." : "http://www.");
The main people exclusionists hurt are aces who are LGBT+ in more ways than one, through demonizing asexuality as a whole, erasing and denying the experiences of a major % of the ace community where their experiences directly overlap and interact with other LGBT+ identites they have, and making LGBT+ spaces hostile to people who are questioning and people who do not have neatly defined orientations or genders that fit neatly under the first four letters of the acronym.
signed a sapphic ace, who is constantly harmed by exclusionist rhetoric and bullshit.
Im a Sapphic Ace, I don’t use the SAM, so don’t make me, just accept that Asexual is my orientation and the kind of asexual I am is a wlw. Thats all you need to know. If you feel you have to police my identity further, even tho we wont ever meet, and we are not dating, most likely the only reason you find my existence offensive because it challenges your bigotry towards asexuals. And that is YOUR problem, not mine. So stew on it in your own corner, because argueing with me wont change that I exist as a Sapphic ace who is wlw because of my asexuality. All it does is strengthen my resolve to talk about it, so other Sapphics who are invalidated and harrassed into not expressing they are sapphic because of bigots who have a bee up their bum about people whose identity falls into the fringe blurred edges of catagories (or target them because they hate sharing a label with people they have a bigotry against be it nb/trans/bi/pan/ace/aro or intersex) and reminds us all that binaries rarely have a truly defined line because we don’t live in a two dimentional world, I want to remind them they are not alone. and they are not any less sapphic for having an identity that falls on the blur of a binary line.
Im an ace wlw who is not attracted to any gender but likes forming romantic relationships and chooses who i date with factors that are not dependant on gender. Therefore I am asexual because asexual = attraction to no gender, and gender is not a factor in who i date.
I know that it can be hard for people who are not-ace or aro to understand how people can form relationships on other aspects that are not attraction, but that is just because it can be hard to imagine living without something you take for granted. I’m going to try to explain, and i hope it helps some people understand. though I know there are some who see the word “asexual” and immediately want to fight with me, feeling.. they.. not an asexual and not me.. somehow understand my feelings and my experiences better than I do, (they dont, but just you watch they will claim they do anyway).
The simpliest way i can explain how I am a wlw because of my sexuality is to say that my asexuality refers to the fact that my attraction compass has no needle.. so points to no gender, but I like relationships, and I form loving attatchments to people. I want a commited partnership, and I like dating. So i choose who to date and have commited romantic partnerships with based on things that dont have much to do to gender. Some of the people i love happen to be woman. I am a woman, therefore I am a woman who loves woman. My asexuality makes me a wlw, because it is my asexuality that means gender isnt a factor in who i date, and means that I have loved and have the potential to love woman, which means i experience all the things wlw experience dating someone of the same gender.
I know people who experience attraction tend to conflate attraction with action sometimes.. (ans well as conflating romance and sex) because they don’t need to think about it, for them those things are conflated, and its hard to put themselves in the shoes of other people.. where people can experience that those things are different.. usually because they experience one but not the other.
Being in a relationship, and having sex are actions. I have loved people who have happened to be women. I have been in committed relationships with people who have happened to be woman.
Attraction is a feeling, it is a factor in choosing the action of dating. Everyone chooses who to date on a multitude of different factors. because I dont experience attraction, that is not a factor. there is no point in considering it if i will never feel it.
But i can feel affection, loyalty, connection, respect, trust etc. which are all super important.. and some would argue in long term committed romantic relationships MORE important than initial attraction. I base who i date on those things. None of those things have anything to do with gender. But you can build a happy, healthy and loving relationship on those things.
Just as one can experience a craving for food, and not eat. craving is a feeling, eating is an action. you can choose to eat because of lots of reasons.. none of which are craving.
When it comes to love i think Love is both a feeling and an action. but it is not the same as attraction. you can be attracted to someone but not love them. you love a person but not be attracted to them. Its something you feel, but love is also something you enact. you enact it through how you support and cherish a person, those are actions you choose to do.
So no.. i dont need attraction to love someone.. there are are lots of other factors.. and catalysts to fall in love. but also, attraction is a feeling, a relationship is a joint action between two people who decide to be there for each other, and you can make that choice based on a range of different factors and feelings.
and before some teen tries to twist my words, im not saying “you can choose to love any gender, or be gay.” I am saying that we cant choose how we feel, or who we are attracted to and who we are not. but relationships are a choice.
Im a Sapphic Ace, I don’t use the SAM, so don’t make me, just accept that Asexual is my orientation and the kind of asexual I am is a wlw. Thats all you need to know. If you feel you have to police my identity further, even tho we wont ever meet, and we are not dating, most likely the only reason you find my existence offensive because it challenges your bigotry towards asexuals. And that is YOUR problem, not mine. So stew on it in your own corner, because argueing with me wont change that I exist as a Sapphic ace who is wlw because of my asexuality. All it does is strengthen my resolve to talk about it, so other Sapphics who are invalidated and harrassed into not expressing they are sapphic because of bigots who have a bee up their bum about people whose identity falls into the fringe blurred edges of catagories (or target them because they hate sharing a label with people they have a bigotry against be it nb/trans/bi/pan/ace/aro or intersex) and reminds us all that binaries rarely have a truly defined line because we don’t live in a two dimentional world, I want to remind them they are not alone. and they are not any less sapphic for having an identity that falls on the blur of a binary line.
I still can’t believe the level of arrogant entitlement some people on this hell-site have.
I am still getting antagonistic asks because I am A Sapphic Ace and for some reason this really infuriates people. I guess because if they acknowledge I exist then they have to acknowledge their wrong in their assumptions that asexuals are by default straight.
And its easier to be aggressive towards me than revisit their misconceptions.
But the but that makes me tired, is in being aggressive towards me they demand over and over I explain my orientation.. while referencing posts where I have explained it.
Look, I know what I feel and what I am, I live in my own experience in a way you can not, sometimes other peoples experiences are hard to understand, I get it. I don’t hold it against you if it is difficult for you to someone elses experience. If you don’t fully understand what it is like being asexual and so you keep putting it into non-ace perspectives, its frustrating but I understand that sometimes if you’re not asexual its hard to imagine how you can love without attraction. but I do have romantic relationships that are borne out of other things besides from attraction (and without, specifically attraction to gender).
But I have explained it, I have answered the same questions over and over. I am at the point now where if you ask me it again I am just going to copy and paste those posts.
So what is arrogant entitlement is rudely and aggressively asking me yet again to explain it, not because you truly want to understand, but because it irritates you that I exist as an asexual who is a wlw because I am asexual. To think That I have to justify my existence over and over. even when its been made pretty clear that I am an wlw ace,because I am asexual and I have loved women despite not experiencing attraction.
And then, the most hilarious thing is, you don’t understand why aces who are not-het, call bullshit when people say this whole shit-course is just about “the cishets”. Because I can’t say I love women and I am ace and be left in peace.
If it were “only about the cishets”, then a person who is wlw wouldnt be a target, for this kind of gatekeeping. Just because I am not thee “right kind of wlw”.
same for “biphobia is subset of homophobia” AND “bi woman don’t experience lesbophobia”
If bi women experience homophobia.. AND the reason according to the notes is lesbophobia is a thing is because of the intersection of homophobia and misogyny..which bi women face because.. they are women… then do bi women experience lesbophobia? and if they don’t according to these people, why not? why is biphobia not a thing because it is just homophobia, but.. if its a bi woman, they wouldn’t experience lesbophobia.. therefore cant use the same terms
and can you say why not without mentioning not being attracted to men, because heteronormative society has expectations of women being attracted to men, because if you do say that is the reason, you know who else gets shit for not being attracted to the gender they are heteronormatively supposed to?
omg this is so fucking dense and misses all of the points…. bi women can experience lesbophobia… particularly in situations where they are passing as a lesbian or seem like a lesbian… biphobia itself has specific dynamics that are distinct from lesbophobia but still under the large umbrella of homophobia.,,
aroaces - sure - that is the part of this post i’m down with. ironically, biphobia and aphobia (idk is that the term, who ze fuck knows) have some similar dynamics and patterns
I agree with you, like on all points, i think you misunderstood me, but there are people who say they don’t and use that as a reason to justify why bi woman cant use words like Butch and Femme even though those words were used when bi and lesbian women were all considered lesbians.. because lesbianism was an action not an identity. I was saying this to show fallacy in arguments. Because a lot of people that say biphobia is only a subset of homophobia.. not an overlapping prejudice, (some of it is based on general homophobia and some based on binary and often transphobic thinking that you should only be attracted to one gender) also both ignore things that bi women in particular face AND claim bi women are not allowed access to words they are supposedly share oppression for. which is ridiculous.
and yeah, biphobia and aphobia do have similar patterns.
I am an inclusionist PRECISELY because as a sapphic ace i have experienced harrassment from exclusionists who are PISS MAD that I exist. For them I’m fair game because I say I am ace and they attack me regardless of the fact I have repeatedly reminded them I am wlw. Some go as far as to deny that I even can be wlw, because they are so INTENT on being justified in making me a target for being ace. They hate aces that much that they would pretend wlw aces arent “really” wlw in order to justify harrassing them.
Especially an ace who doesn’t use the SAM and has chosen asexuality as the label that best describes my orientation. They hate that.. even tho they are the ones who discouraged me from using the SAM in the first place, because they would willfully misinterpret it to erase that I am asexual first and foremost.???
So..like.. exclusionists.. I literally would not care or be involved in the discourse if it was literally “only about the cishets”. because i am here because exclusionists made discourse a problem i had to face, even when i was minding my own business as an ace wlw.
same for “biphobia is subset of homophobia” AND “bi woman don’t experience lesbophobia”
If bi women experience homophobia.. AND the reason according to the notes is lesbophobia is a thing is because of the intersection of homophobia and misogyny..which bi women face because.. they are women... then do bi women experience lesbophobia? and if they don’t according to these people, why not? why is biphobia not a thing because it is just homophobia, but.. if its a bi woman, they wouldn’t experience lesbophobia.. therefore cant use the same terms
and can you say why not without mentioning not being attracted to men, because heteronormative society has expectations of women being attracted to men, because if you do say that is the reason, you know who else gets shit for not being attracted to the gender they are heteronormatively supposed to?
When will exclusionists learn or accept (b cause we’ve told them a million times and every survey on the subjext has shown the same thing) that inclusionistists are better the vast majority even if they are ace are some other form of lgbtq+ like bi gay lesbian trans or NB and that in every survey of inclusionists orientation only approx 2% identified as het in any way.
And when will they listen when we repeatedly tell them most of the times when inclusionists talk about overlapping experiences between ace and a other lgbt identity we usually share both of those identities. Most of the times when people talk about being trans and being ace and compare them THEY ARE ACE AND TRANS.
For example I talk about the overlap of my experiences as an ace person and as a bi person because I’m a bi ace.
But constantly exclusionists take these discussions out of context and perpetuate the lie that inclusionists are all cishet aces when they are by the vast majority other lgbt ppl even by exclusionists definition of lgbt.
This one has over 700 inclusionist respondents, and found 2.8% were Heteromantic and 1.6% were heterosexual. i had a quick look through and there are 19- 25 who reported being cis and some form of Het. (the spead sheet is not the easiest to work through but even with being over estimating it still comes to about 3%) that is out of 797 respondents
The other survey has respondents from discourse wide, so you are probably familiar with it. It had 1,290 inclusionist responses, out of those 18 (1.4%) responded heterosexual when asked their orientation, and 34 (2.6%) responded heteromantic when asked their romantic orientation.
meaning these two independent surveys show roughly the same % of inclusionists who id in some way as het (bare in mind a lot of those who ID heterosexual also IDed heteromantic so there is some overlap in the % as well) and in both cases they are very low. which shows this argument is predominately between non-straight and/or non cis people. cishets are hardly involved, the don’t care about this. This is a intra-community LGBTQ issue.
So im going back to enjoy my summer, happy and content as a Queer community who has found acceptance amongst both my local Queer and LGBT+ groups as an asexual.
and to other aces, I welcome you with open arms in my Queer community. If your in the North hemisphere i hope you too are having a good summer, if your in the Southern I hope you are enjoying a cosy and warm winter.
it feels like just a year ago (its actually a year and two months ago) that people were claiming asexuals stole purple from bisexuals. {link) (link)
I can’t believe this discourse is back, even in jest. honestly i know a lot of people are on summer holidays but there ARE better and more constructive uses of your time and wild imaginations.
LMAO ive already explained why Im not going to.(which would have taken you seconds to find) but since you seem to be too lazy to check the notes;
The whole point of op is purple discourse is absolutely ridiculous, and ironically not original, but also to highlight that.. i hope you can follow this.. other orientations use purple... the current purple discourse is even more ridiculous when you remember purple is also asociated with the bi flag and the very FACT this purple discourse was mentioned a year a go illustrates that beautifully.
Like... the actual post only minimally add more proof. Those posts show that such discourse existed enough for several people to react to it. Im not making claims that all exclusionists believe it. To say that those links don’t count as proof is to make a claim of some conspiracy that... knowing i wanted to make this point now, a year later.. others.. faked a reaction to..a discourse about the colour purple. To what end? Why?
The only reason i can see is that you are so far up your own arse in this discourse that you are sealioning me for proof of the most LOW IMPACT CLAIM IMAGINABLE. its ridiculous. which in itself is a bigger issue, and the reason i don’t mind typing all this out, because.. i feel like.. pointing out how.. ridiculous it is your not only spending emotional energy on this, but that you are..asking me to search back through posts a YEAR AGO to find the post that started the purple discourse that time.. and consider it a reasonable and rational request. Please ask yourself why, are you doing it in bad faith? or have you lost perspective because you’ve made a hobby argueing with LGBTQ+ people on the internet about things you disagree with? no matter how minor the issue is.
honestly, you need to chill out. take a break, enjoy your summer, because if your asking for MORE sources.. you need to get your priorities in perspective. because purplediscourse is ridiculous.. and it now will forever undermine anything else you say to me.. because im going to be thinking “thats the person who thinks purplecourse is a legitmate enough to want not just Sources.. but ironclad, organic, homegrown pedigree sources” and im sorry im just not going to take you seriously. because its obviously just illustrates... how .... far gone you are in discourse.. its not healthy.
edit: i maintain looking for it is waste of time but someone sent me a link so here you go.
this is the first time ive logged in in weeks, and it is absolutely a great thing just to enjoy summer and leave the discourse behind.
and it is brilliant. Like I can be Queer and enjoy the sun (or rather the shade while the sun is shining too hot) and eat an ice cream , and read romance novels (both queer and not) in the shade. and hang out at pride stuff. Its excellent. I 100% recommend, though obviously if romance novels arent your thing, there are lots of other genres to choose from. Summer is always a good time to pull out that dim store adventure/murder mystery novel.
purple is pretty much used by most Queer and lgbt-sub groups, including people who JUST id as queer, or are organise under the banner of Queer. and like.. im sorry its just so funny someone would think a colour could be “stolen”, let alone that purple only belonged to one sub-group of lgbt/queer people.
it’s the height of intra-community pettiness. its the perfect allegory about how nitpicky and.. pointless exclusionism and lgbtq+ infighting is.
It also is very reveals the AGE of the discourses a lot more than they intend i think, because it sounds like something a kid would say when they find out someone has THEIR favourite colour.
2. We gotta or else we’re at risk of losing funding, either by slander campaigns to established companies (#GiveItBack for GLAAD) or by withholdment of funding from companies that demand we have as high of a number of attendees as possible (which is why, in places with low upcome, some trans organisations can’t deny access to cis people even for sensitive subject discussions).
3. You’re in a position of privilege and you forcing your way into spaces that are for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, people oppressed for same gender attraction/not being cis, by effort of calling us queer, weird, outcasts, different, not normal and insist you fit into that only backs it up.
4. Pretty much every transgender group I’ve been in also accepts cis crossdressers, that doesn’t mean they’re trans, we can’t go against it though because point two and they might be transgender but unaware.
5. Allies are accepted and included for pretty much all offline LGBT groups but they’re not LGBT unless they’re closeted. The majority of the intersex community considers themselves not LGBT and most offline LGBT groups still include them.
1. it means it’s infighting, which you claimed it wasn’t
2. I’ve explained why cis heteroromantic aces aren’t a big enough group to get enough interest from companies here.
3. I’m not straight. I’m not cis. I’m queer and this is my community. Don’t try to exclude me from it by trying to claim I have privilege over the rest of the community when I don’t.
4. what do you have against crossdressers? Also, what’s the point of bringing them up when the topic doesn’t concern them?
5. Again, why do you bring up allies and intersex people when they aren’t the topic for discussion? All you’ve done is argue that the LGBTQ+ is more inclusive than exclusionists would like it to be.
@beingthatfag i mean I am also a wlw, so like.. apparently im in a position of privilige because i laugh at the idea that i can steal a colour from myself because both my ace identity and my wlw identity have associations with different shades of the same colour and for some reason its also offensive to you that I dare, at the same time acknowledge lots of other identities under the LGBTQ+ umbrella also use purple in their identity symbolism. I mean.. come on. if you read my OP that was really the point of it. colours have multiple meanings and multiple associations, and it is divisive to act like one group has sole ownership of a colour, especially when other LGBTQ+ subgroups use that colour in flags and symbols.
Ace people are part of my LGBTQ+ community but also.. like.. maybe dont erase all the other LGBTQ+ groups that have purple in their flags, or a history with purple symbolism?
yes i was being condescending (on PURPOSE) when I called that person “sweetie” their response called for it, like if you are going to sealion such an incredibly ridiculous topic as purple discourse, Im sorry you deserve to be condescended to because you are acting younger than your age.
I mean im laughing at the notion of purple being “stolen” as an ace wlw, who is apparently stealing purple from myself. and then when i point out it is ridiculous because colours tend to have mulitple meanings I am.. accused of forcing myself in as an outsider, nah mate, Im double (or triple if you could biromantic) purple. purple is my colour because of multiple identities.
but such discourse also ignores other Queer and LGBTQ+ identities that use purple. eg. the many identities that have purple in their flags, bi, genderqueer, non-binary, the rainbow flag, one of the queer flags, intersex etc.
not to mention ignores that purple symbolism is used by or associated with queer/lgbtq+ people, eg. the purple hand, lavender and gay men etc.
the notion that a colour especially purple BELONGS to one group and therefore can be stolen is NOT just targetting ace people, it has the effect, no matter of how unintended, of erasing other LGBT+ histories around colour symbolism.
colours can mean lots of different things at once. and I am only talking about this more, because i know its a SMALL MINORITY of exclusionists, because i hope other exclusionists ALSO vocally dismiss their rhetoric for what it is, divisive and petty that causes unnecessary infighting that does not add any merit to exclusionist arguments but detracts from them colouring the whole movement as petty and based on ridiculous accusations of a false boogieman.
purple is pretty much used by most Queer and lgbt-sub groups, including people who JUST id as queer, or are organise under the banner of Queer. and like.. im sorry its just so funny someone would think a colour could be “stolen”, let alone that purple only belonged to one sub-group of lgbt/queer people.
it’s the height of intra-community pettiness. its the perfect allegory about how nitpicky and.. pointless exclusionism and lgbtq+ infighting is.
It also is very reveals the AGE of the discourses a lot more than they intend i think, because it sounds like something a kid would say when they find out someone has THEIR favourite colour.
it feels like just a year ago (its actually a year and two months ago) that people were claiming asexuals stole purple from bisexuals. {link) (link)
I can’t believe this discourse is back, even in jest. honestly i know a lot of people are on summer holidays but there ARE better and more constructive uses of your time and wild imaginations.
