what the fuck…
You could say that again đź’€
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@annas-exmo-shit
what the fuck…
You could say that again đź’€
you guys can’t just agree that mormonism is a cult and then turn around and say we should kill all missionaries. yes the overall impact is absolutely fucked but these are 18-24 year olds who have no real idea of the harm they’re perpetuating. ask any exmo who served a mission and they’ll tell you how traumatic they are.
if missionaries show up at your door, don’t let them proselytize to you, but at least offer them a safe place if you have it. a lot of them are going to be far, far away from family, questioning their faith for the first time and spitting in their face and slamming the door will only push them further back into the cult.
as kids, we were raised to believe the whole world was against us. it was kindness and understanding from “non-members” that broke me out.
tyler glenn really was right when he sang about how losing faith in a cult is like a breakup with an incredibly abusive and manipulative significant other. and he was right when he sang about feeling like discarded spat-upon trash despite still believing in the faith. and he was right when he sang about wanting to be as shameless as possible to stick it to them and about even that feeling hollow ultimately. and he was right when he sang about praying at midnight to try and find any way to continue believing in it. and when he sang about the church feeling like a lying ex who keeps coming back because this time is different and how he just wanted to believe it really would be. and when he sang about his first vision being the realization that he could grant himself happiness if he just walked away. and above all else he was REALLY right when he said "I found myself when I lost my faith"
Honestly, that’s how the church is reacting to the crazy dismemberment rates of Mormons.
A systems theory on LDS leadership and how personal psychology scales into doctrine
I’ve been trying to understand why the LDS Church feels so different from the one older generations grew up in. Not just doctrinally, but in how it relates to people and how authority is exercised. This is a systems explanation that started making sense to me once I stopped looking at individual decisions and started looking at patterns.
At a certain point, the same dynamics keep repeating.
What I keep coming back to is how personal psychology, delayed authority, and centralized power interact in a church that treats leadership decisions as revelation.
Spencer W. Kimball
Spencer W. Kimball was not far removed from polygamy. He was the grandson of Heber C. Kimball, lived in Arizona near post Manifesto polygamist communities, and came into leadership surrounded by men who still believed Doctrine and Covenants 132 meant plural marriage, not symbolic eternal sealing.
He also lived through the Richard R. Lyman excommunication from inside the Quorum. That mattered. Sexual theology wasn’t abstract for him. It had already destroyed an apostle.
When Kimball talked about sexuality, especially within marriage, it was almost always framed as duty rather than desire. There was no real attempt to integrate eros into holiness. Instead, sex became something dangerous that had to be tightly controlled. That mindset shows up clearly in The Miracle of Forgiveness and in the 1982 First Presidency letter that intruded directly into marital intimacy.
What stands out to me is that not all of his peers agreed with this approach. Hugh B. Brown explicitly said the Church does not involve itself in the bedrooms of its members. That tells us Kimball’s views weren’t inevitable or universal.
The Church later walked back the 1982 letter, quietly stopped promoting The Miracle of Forgiveness, and abandoned some of the most damaging purity based rhetoric Kimball had normalized. That’s the point where it stopped feeling like “just the era” to me. When an institution quietly retreats from a framework it once enforced, it’s usually because harm became impossible to ignore.
Russell M. Nelson
Russell M. Nelson shows a different version of the same structural problem.
As a junior apostle, he gave a General Conference talk criticizing the use of the word Mormon. In the very next session, Gordon B. Hinckley publicly corrected him. That kind of correction is rare in LDS leadership culture, especially in that setting.
The disagreement was public, unresolved, and then simply shut down. There was no space for it to be worked through. It just sat there.
Decades later, once Nelson became president, the exact same position returned, unchanged, but now framed as revelation. Mormon was suddenly a victory for Satan. Along with that came a presidency marked by sharp reversals, heavy personal branding, unprecedented temple announcements, and a tendency to moralize past member obedience without acknowledging institutional responsibility.
I don’t think this requires assuming revenge or pettiness. It makes sense if you understand how a delayed power hierarchy works. In a system where disagreement cannot be resolved and authority eventually becomes unilateral, suppressed preferences don’t disappear. They wait.
Dallin H. Oaks
Dallin H. Oaks is the most troubling example for me.
As BYU president, he presided over an institution that engaged in aversive conditioning and electroshock therapy on gay students. That this happened is not really disputed. What is disputed is administrative knowledge and moral accountability.
Oaks has consistently denied awareness or responsibility, even as documentation and scholarship suggest the issue was known at an institutional level. What makes this worse is that denial has been paired with continued opposition to LGBTQ inclusion and with the disciplining or excommunication of those who publicly refuse to support him.
This is where the idea of consent falls apart for me. The Church claims moral authority while withholding transparency, denying harm, and punishing dissent. That isn’t informed consent. It’s coercive authority.
The pattern
These are three very different men, but the same mechanism keeps showing up.
In a centralized, gerontocratic system where authority is delayed for decades, personal psychology doesn’t get checked. It gets sanctified.
Kimball’s sexual alienation became shame based doctrine. Nelson’s unresolved disagreement became revelation framed reversal. Oaks’s institutional denial became loyalty enforced over moral repair.
Each time, God’s will is claimed, members absorb the cost, corrections happen quietly if they happen at all, and accountability never flows upward.
Why this matters now
The Church today still asks for enormous levels of time, loyalty, obedience, and money. But it provides less local community, less transparency, and less return on that investment than it once did. At the same time, it centralizes authority, dilutes the distinctiveness that once gave people identity, and reframes late social adaptation as revelation.
Millennials and Gen Z aren’t leaving because they’re offended. They’re leaving because the numbers don’t add up anymore.
My conclusion
I can’t believe an institution that repeatedly sanctifies personal and institutional failure, suppresses dissent rather than addressing harm, retroactively moralizes obedience, and demands loyalty without accountability is being led by God.
That conclusion didn’t come from anger. It came from watching the same pattern repeat and finally admitting to myself that it isn’t accidental.
Holland’s dead! 🎉🥳
GENERAL AUTHORITY DOWN 🦀🦀
WAIT JEFFERY R HOLLAND DIED?????
CRABB RAVEEEEE
Now that Holland’s dead, let’s all take a moment to remember the time he gave a talk at BYU about how upset he was that a gay kid came out during graduation a year earlier and then lowkey threatened queer people with violence. And then every Mormon I knew tried to insist this wasn’t malicious in any way. And then BYU started using that talk in their curriculum.
So uh, no. I’m not sad that he’s dead.
you fuckers thought i forgot about elf practice didn’t you?
if i took a women's scholarship and then transitioned during college would that count as swindling
WOULD THEY TAKE THE MONEY BACK
plan of action:
> take womens scholarship
> go to law school
> transition during law school
> get sued about it
> take it to the supreme court
> defend myself
> trans rights?
stop being funnier than me
you guys can’t just agree that mormonism is a cult and then turn around and say we should kill all missionaries. yes the overall impact is absolutely fucked but these are 18-24 year olds who have no real idea of the harm they’re perpetuating. ask any exmo who served a mission and they’ll tell you how traumatic they are.
if missionaries show up at your door, don’t let them proselytize to you, but at least offer them a safe place if you have it. a lot of them are going to be far, far away from family, questioning their faith for the first time and spitting in their face and slamming the door will only push them further back into the cult.
as kids, we were raised to believe the whole world was against us. it was kindness and understanding from “non-members” that broke me out.
hate telling people i was raised mormon because their only frame of reference is the secret lives of mormon wives
and it's like no diva I'm talking about utter devotion, sermons on blood atonements from the pulpit, praying to die before i turned 8, and men you're taught to never ever say no to
Mormons are so busy fighting the racism against black people allegations (also true) they completely forgot that their entire theology revolves around an alt-history bullshit racist retelling of Native American history that can be legitimately disproven by any group of Native Americans that still exist on the continent with oral histories despite their open and documented attempts to exterminate them all. They're not fucking European nor were they cursed to be brown by god. đź’ś Fuck
One thing I've had a hard time explaining to my still very active Mormon family is that the queer community still experiences hurt from the church and its members. And because of that, they may distance themselves from anyone who is still an actively practicing member.
My sil is frustrated that at UVU people see she's active and assume she's homophobic. My mom is hurt on behalf of her friend who's child is obviously transitioning but won't come out to her. My brother doesn't understand why it took me an entire year and being two states away to tell him I was queer.
These are not isolated incidents. The Mormon church actively is against queer people, talks are being given from the pulpit about how we are sinful and fallen creatures. So no, we won't run to you with open arms. That is the baseline queer people start with in regards to the Mormon church. You have to do the work to show us you are trustworthy and safe. And until that happens, queer people will be hesitant and weary and I get you think that sucks but your church is bigoted and you cannot blame people for not wanting to come out to you instantly even when "you can tell".
quitmormon.com (a pro-bono legal team that helps people resign from the church) is fundraising to get a full-time paid lawyer and provide free mental health services to people leaving mormonism (especially LGBTQ+ people and our allies)
link to send support:
Help Quitmormon.com Empower More People in Faith Transitions … Mark Naugle needs your support for Help Quitmormon.com Expand Free Re