It doesn't seem so. It would be hard what he did was was beyond redemption.
But then it is a possible background for your spell-caster character when playing DnD. I am not sure what kind of manipulation was chosen here. Regular or magical? It can depend on the player who chose to play Celeb/Bren. Or perhaps it depends on the DM (Dungeon Master) in this case?
I guess magical manipulation can possibly throw him into still redeemable category, but that depends what was chosen here.
After watching one episode, I have some questions. Some things seem like not well-though out. The witches have real power are hunted and killed? Really? I could understand this happened in our world where they had no real magical power at all and it was all a made up bullshit to kill unlikable women or women who might have been in the way. But for the same to happen in case of real power? So in this story world a witch has the ability to burn someone to death and no one in the world sees the possibilities and opportunities? For example, to use them during attack? For how long have witches been around? Only after some dude I suppose from the future was isekaied into the prince body he is the only smart one? The longer witches were present in this world, the more weird and stupid it is that no one thought that someone who can control fire so precisely would be a fabulous person to have on their side either as a bodyguard or as a cannon during attack. And the more witches, the greater the fire power.
Also, this girl from the first episode basically was able to free herself, why did she not do it earlier? I can understand she might have a death wish, but other witches should be able to help other witches and be able to free them with that kind of power. But what is said in the story makes it sound like they are killed despite having power to free themselves.
If she can control fire so precisely with no formal training, why are witches presented as helpless victims?
To be honest it makes no sense to me that witches are hunted if they have a real power. It is like getting rid of strong warriors because they are strong and one can fear them, ridiculous right?
If witches have been long in this world, I would expect them to rather get some position for themselves.
Is it a story that explains it properly or is a story where a boy supposedly from a future is made to look smart because of how stupid everyone else is fro not thinking about the obvious implications and possibilities? And he is the savior of the witches because witches themselves for some strange reason cannot think for themselves and make a position for themselves in their world?
Also, the idea that a medieval-like society wouldn’t think pragmatically about using powerful individuals doesn’t really hold up. Historically, rulers were often quite strategic, for example, the Byzantine emperors employed the Varangian Guard, foreign Viking warriors, precisely because they were strong, reliable, and less entangled in local politics. That shows a clear awareness of how to use powerful but potentially outsider groups effectively, which makes it harder to believe that no one in this story’s world would see the obvious advantages of having witches on their side.
It is nice to see it is going into a proper fantasy rather than school life like Silent Which that in the end was neither a good fantasy nor a good school slice of life or drama and wasted its potential. I hope Witch Hat Atelier is not going to make the same mistake.
This episode Agatto was not nice, but she made a good point. Coco is reckless and doesn't think before she does something. Instead of following this guy, she could have waited to inform Qifrey she saw him. And what would Coco do if she got him? If he gave her a book with forbidden spells there is a good chance he knows them himself and she would be in trouble if he got her.
Speaking of Silent Witch, I wonder why the author of Silent Witch thought a school life will be a good idea? The school life was so average there, if I wanted a good school drama I would like to see something like My youth romantic comedy is wrong as I expected rather than school life in Silent Witch that is just run-of-the-mill.
Another good fantasy story I read by Patricia A. McKillip about music and revenge. I just like her dreamy style and here how she manages to show how playing instruments is magic. Interesting and not typical fantasy with spells to cast and reading books to make magic.
It is a nice laid-back fantasy so far about a main heroine who wants to be a witch. The art is really nice and different from a generic manga. Easy to see that the author must be interested in art.
I hope it keeps being a proper fantasy and will not be like Silent Witch that started well, but then become a story with not so interesting school life. It would be sad if it became just another story about cute girls doing cute things in this case I guess drawing cute pentagrams. Also, I really hope the author was just unaware how it would appear that an adult male is taking care of four underage girls.
It is another nice plot-driven fantasy with some character development that is not in the way of plot and action. I think I like this one better than the Vox Machina.
I wanted to check out this fantasy anime. It was okay, but nothing special.
The start was good 8/10.
The middle part was decent 7/10.
The ending was pretty meh. Nothing interesting happened 5/10.
Monica needs to develop faster. Her constant crying and extreme anxiety, which I guess was supposed to be endearing, quickly become annoying rather than sympathetic. If the show keeps relying on her shyness as its main joke, it’ll get boring fast.
The other characters remain uninteresting. There’s nothing special about them. Even when something potentially interesting is hinted at, it’s never explored further. For example, the second prince: it’s hinted that he might be more interested in magic than in being a prince, but this is never developed. The story could have shown him resenting his royal duties for taking time away from his magical studies, but instead, he’s just a flat, boring princely character.
The romance is dull because the male lead is undeveloped. There isn’t even a proper duo, just a boring prince.
Overall, I’d give this show a 6.5 out of 10.
I suppose the anime studios are trying to ride the wave of Frieren’s popularity, and Silent Witch got a shot thanks to that trend.
Alphabet of Thorn, Perdido Street Station, Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell
After the disappointing ending of Yona of the Dawn, I decided it was time to read something else to speed up the process of forgetting about Yona and washing the poor taste it left out of my mouth. My plan is going great so far.
Perdido Street Station — it’s a strange, but interesting fantasy story. I liked the idea behind the main enemies, it felt original. After a story that completely fumbled its antagonists, this was a relief. They aren’t deep on a psychological level, but at least the idea is imaginative, which puts them several levels above certain other works.
Alphabet of Thorn by Patricia A. McKillip — a good, short fantasy story where women actually play meaningful roles, for readers who appreciate competent female characters. It features an orphan, a newly crowned queen who comes to be a ruler after her father dies, and two sorceresses. I also really like the way Patricia A. McKillip writes, her prose and how she creates images with words. She has a talent for it.
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Susanna Clarke — I haven’t finished this one yet, but I’m about 70% in and enjoying it very much. It’s a very English story about two magicians.
I’d recommend these books to anyone trying to recover from Akatsuki no Yona and recalibrate their expectations.
No, Yona was no candidate for queen before she left the castle
For another post, I am chewing the topic of this part of the manga.
I am actually curious, how Soo Won should have known , that Yona had any potential at all?
This was most likely not only her fault, as her father isolated Yona basically from the outside world. She had no clue at all, how life really worked.
But she had not been prepared as a ruler at all. Above all, she showed Soo Won more her vulnerable side, instead of her strength.
Additionally, even now, Yona is hopelessly naive sometimes... Without the dragon warriors powers and the gods influence, Yona should learn to live the life of a normal mortal, whose capabilities are limited. I am actually quite interested, if Kusanagi will show this difference in the last chapter or not...
It would be nice to see how Yona deals with being normal, but it sounds too good for this manga. I’d rather expect a shameless, self-indulgent tribute to Yona in the bonus chapters, which is why I am not interested in reading the bonus chapters.
Apparently this season is going to have only 10 episodes, which I find sad as it means there will be no The Golden Land Arc. I hope there will be season 3 in this situation to cover this.
The episode itself was nice.
As for Frieren and Himmel, I don't care much about them, but I admit they feel nostalgic. Since they remind me of one of my first anime, Record of Lodoss War OVA, that had as a couple a warrior and long-living elf.
But I suppose the series assumes the viewer already knows this trope.
Yona the problem of presenting someone as being a good ruler/leader material.
Let's look into some stories when a character is someone who is not interested in power ends up being a king, emperor, leader.
I, Claudius - the main and titular character is a studious person. He is shown as interested in history and becoming a knowledgeable historian. He manages to survive the den of vipers that is early Rome Empire, because his persistent stammer makes other see him as a fool. He also advised to keep playing a fool to survive. A fool is not seen as a threat and rival to power. He does it, he keeps studying and mangas to survive, unlike many people in his family.
Lyonesse - Aillas is presented as resourceful and intelligent. He shown getting out of troubles in the story. He is also showing resourcefulness later when he is the king. For example, to check who among his people is spying on him, he tells the people who he suspects a bit different story and then is waiting for signs which of these stories are leaked to the other king. Yes, it is the same trick that Tyrion Lannister uses to identify Cersei's informant in Game of Thrones. Perhaps Martin learnt it form Jack Vance, perhaps some other way because it is an old trick?
Legend of the Galactic Heroes - Yang Wen-li is shown as well-read in history and resourceful. He doesn't become a ruler of course, but he does become a leader in a very particular, reluctant way.
I hope the pattern is becoming obvious. Reluctance works when the character is presented as well-read, resourceful and intelligent. Both Claudius and Yang Wen-li are plainly stated to be reluctant to be an emperor or a leader. Does it mean that not wanting to be a ruler is the only thing that makes them a good leader? No.
I hope the problem is clear here. Reluctance only works when it limits power already justified by competence and awareness.
Why reluctance works for Claudius and Yang Wen-li?
It is because it is presented as signal of a deeper traits and understanding:
Awareness of the cost of power
Lack of narcissistic identification with authority
Recognition that leadership is burden, not fulfilment
If reluctance alone was enough any traumatised character could be ruler material. And this is Yona's problem. Just because she went to through hard times doesn't mean she is ruler material. In her case, leadership becomes a reward for going through hard times. Not because she shows competence and understanding what it means before that happens.
The manga ended and I’ve seen a lot of mixed reactions going around. Nothing perplexed me more, however, than the different opinions people had about Suwon’s ending, with one side seeing nothing wrong with it while the other wailed the destruction of what used to be a complex, interesting character.
As a member of the second side, it was tempting to me to assume the first group was just “too stupid” to get the character, so to them a “stupid” ending was still good. But here's what perplexed me: they were better able to interpret the story, and see where it was going, than I was. They always saw it as “Suwon bad vs. Yona good” and behold, the ending proved this is really what the story was.
How on earth did I see shades of grey where none was intended? Or did the author intend them at first, but later changed her mind?
In my investigations, I tried to remember the story from the start, this time with the assumption that the author meant him to be framed as a villain from the beginning… And suddenly, I saw it.
Alright, so, to sum up Suwon's character, based on everything we have from beginning to end, is this: he’s meant to be a cold, ruthless character who's bent on revenge and gets rid of anyone who gets on his path. He still cares about Yona and Hak, though, and this is what eventually leads to his redemption, where he regrets his ruthless ways and learns to value people's lives.
I KNOW. If you're a Suwon fan, you must be mad at me right now. “That’s not him!” You say. “What about the thousands of times he's shown caring for Kouka’s people, wanting to make Kouka great and overall being a marvelous king? This isn't right!”
I know. He’s amazing and has dozens of scenes where the dragons and others see him as a good person and whatnot. He's often the wisest, smartest, and most perceptive character around (esp in the first half of the story). Saying he’d be stupid enough to be purely driven by revenge and in need of a “lesson” taught by Yona sounds equally stupid, but stick with me, I’m gonna show you how this is possible.
It entirely depends on your perception of Il’s murder.
You see, I made a total of seven people watch AnY’s first episode, and with the exception of a friend, every single one of them saw Il’s murder as something that automatically placed Suwon in the "pure evil, beyond redemption, I want him to die” category. But a smaller section of people, me included, simply couldn't make this judgment right off the bat, because they needed more context. “What if king Il was evil and had truly murdered Suwon's dad? What if Suwon was the true heir? What if Yona’s perspective, as a spoiled princess, is heavily biased?” And so on.
So you can see we have two groups, one who thinks “He’s evil, I want him to die” and one who thinks “I'm curious, I need more context.” And now that we have the full story, I’ll risk saying the first group had the reaction intended by the author.
I know this probably means the author didn't think much about the political side of things and was more concerned with Yona’s feelings in the classic Shoujo style. But if you look at the story as a whole, this is the approach that explains everything.
Now, assuming she's writing for the first group, she has a problem. Since Suwon is meant to go through a redemption arc, people can't wish him to die! They have to see his qualities and learn he isn't beyond redemption. So she does what she can: she makes thousands of scenes showcasing his skills, his good side, his sadness. “Look, he’s actually a competent king!” She says. “He's gonna be important in the end. Don't wish for his death, he cannot die right now. Look, even the dragons think he's good. Lili is curious about him. Please give him a chance!”
But for the second group, the one who was still analysing the context, this sends a completely different message. They take all those scenes as pieces of the puzzle and marvel at its complexity, wanting more clues, waiting for the thing that will be the “final revelation” of his character. They make theories and discuss what might be Suwon's past, or motivations, or plans for the future. They face the difficult question of “what if he's right?” and love the conflict it brings. But since this wasn't the author’s intention, at some point this facade would start to crumble.
I still remember when the Xing arc was happening, and for some reason Suwon had turned strangely uncooperative, even foolish. I remember how some Suwon fans made posts expressing their confusion, while everyone else replied “you sillies, he’s always been like this.” I was so confused. He's been consistently portrayed as a competent, well meaning king who’s willing to be ruthless when necessary, why is he so uncooperative now?
That's because he was meant to be established as an evil, uncooperative character right off the bat in the first two chapters. All the rest, all the good moments, were meant to be read as exceptions to the rule, not a part of his character. The result? The ones willing to give him more time were confused, but those who had condemned him at the start understood the Xing arc perfectly.
From this point onwards, the author stopped showing his qualities and went back to focusing on his flaws as a “vengeful and ruthless king,” so she could make him turn away from it in his redemption arc. But for the people who liked him (or saw him as morally complex), it was as if he had turned into a completely different character. It was disappointing to see all the wonder and mystery going away, and watch him turn into an one dimensional antagonist. Meanwhile, for the ones who hadn't seen any complexity in the first place, it was simply the natural course of the story. And so it ended.
It saddens me to discover it was not that deep. That all the complexity was only in my head, and that I made questions that were never meant to be answered. But at the same time I’m satisfied that I could finally see what the author was trying to convey, and discover the truth about his character. I do think the “ruthless person learns to value people” can be an inspiring arc, if done well, and has a nice message. So I don't hate the ending as much as I could've.
If only the political side of things had been handled better, and if Suwon had properly been established as ruthless in the beginning, I’d have enjoyed it way more…
Interesting, and I think you might be right and it was really intended to be a simple black and white story like for someone who is no older than 12 years old was the purpose here all along.
I would however argue that the beginning gave some hope it will be a bit more complex. The politics while not groundbreaking were decent at the beginning. It is only in Sei arc when politics becomes terrible. Soo-won was shown consistently helping the kingdom.
The story genuinely flirts with gray morality at the beginning.
The readership of Hana to Yume are mostly teenagers 13-18 and young adults 19-23. They should be fine to handle some complexity. At least this is what is says on wiki, perhaps this changed and now the readership is mainly girls who are not older than 12 years old?
I agree in Xing arc and after it became more obvious with each chapter that this manga is not interested in showing Yona being wrong anymore. Naver mind how little she knows. It was not interested anymore in showing the complexity of the situation. It was: Soo-won bad, Yona good. That it didn't want to be a political and ethical drama became obvious.
First, I thought Yona would work hard to be a queen again. She did work hard, but yet she won her battles so easily with the dragons' warriors' powers, so the hard part wasn't that hard for me. She always wins and is always right.
Soo-won had to work hard, but the writer gave him the least time on the manga in the beginning, and now he is sick and maybe will die soon, Hope not.
Another small example is Joo-Doh, who trained so hard to become Yona’s guardian, yet King Il ignored his efforts and gave that role to Hak, who was just naturally strong without any effort.
So it's not working hard theme.
I thought it's friendship theme, but for Yona, Hak, and Soo-Won, I can’t really see those three as true friends. I feel something is wrong. Yona loved Soo-Won, Soo-Won had a trauma after his father's death, and he completely couldn't act like a normal person. Also, i think he knows that Hak loves Yona, and he couldn't do anything about that. Hak, I didn’t get his character he didn’t understand his friend nor noticed that he had a problem or confessed his love for yona.
So maybe it’s gods theme, I don't think so, I don’t understand the current arc, I didn’t see any wisdom in the dragons warriors also in the beginning they decided to kill Soo-Won just because he hurt Yona they didn’t think about the people or the town.
So what is it? It makes me confused.
Sorry for the long message, and I'm sorry for any mistakes. English is not my mother language.
Hi Anon,
I apologize for putting off a reply to this ask. I was waiting for the manga to end. The message/theme of AnY, if you haven't already caught up with the ending is - The average B grade shoujo romance posing as a narrative classic. For the vast manga/anime fan it is not more amusing than watching Solo Levelling competing as a story with Frieren.
If you are wondering what Solo Levelling is; it is sort of the shounen counterpart to the shoujo genre's AnY. If anything, Sung Jin-woo outperforms Yona in his purpose as the MC (you can't complain that its not deep if it was never meant to be deep in the first place.) and he is the poster child for the sub-standard MC for present day shounen.
Yona who was supposed to be on the fast track to becoming one of shoujo's classic FMCs has fallen to such a level, yes. What you are seeing is an example of a work that has gotten so far derailed from its original roots.
The first half of the manga started out depicting interesting themes and meaningful representations of faith, hard work,relationships, mistakes, growth of Yona to doing a complete 180 in the second half, turning a potential masterpiece into B grade wattpad literature whose main plot became heavily reliant on Su-won to make the story interesting.
Just like shounen has its own curses, the shoujo genre's biggest curse is romance. It is the element that bags the most interest in main stream shoujo, and also the curse that most authors fall into.
Most people think, to be a shoujo classic, it has to be a romance, but what many people don't get is depending upon the skill of story telling stories without a speck of romance have become classics in shoujo space (Natsume's book of friends is the biggest example) While romance is indeed the main event in many, to be a classic, the story has to evolve above the romance.
Inuyasha, Fruits Basket, Nana, Sailor Moon, Akagami, Ouran - they are all stories that have romance in them but the narrative evolved beyond the romance.
In AnY's case, instead of evolving, it devolved. It started out as a story that was meant to go beyond the romance, but then crashed into B grade storytelling that was more focussed on romance. Not even the relationship or the growth of the characters involved in the main romance event. Just Romance.
It tried to be and do too many things at once and succeeded at none.
Basara is also decent enough. The story balances out albeit a little aawkwardly, hatred, the politics, and romance, but doesn't try to be everything. Eventually, the stories that have real meaning are the ones where the characters evolve above mere displays of romance that screams fan service.
I am afraid the only thing that carried AnY this far was Su-won. If you're reading it for him and are prepared to be heart broken this manga might be worth your time, but if you are not, then any of the other mangas/anime will be a better worth of your time than Yona's story is what I would answer anyone who wants to start this manga.
And Shoujo genre is no longer limited to japanese manga. There are some excellent Female characters and stories created by chinese and korean authors that puts Yona's story on fifth grader level.
Medea Solon from Your Throne and Shuri from A stepmother's Marchen are some of my personal favourites and have always been unshakeable in my top 10 female main chara list. Yona has regretfully fallen of my list.
I agree wholeheartedly, only one point: Can you remember even one shojo, where "love" was not the main topic? Even in Fruits Basket, it was one central point. The same can be said about Ouran High School and Sailor Moon. Nana is more a josei, so for older women and even this focuses on love, even though the relationship between Hatchi and Nana is a focal point.
I remember, that Inuyasha is actually a shonen, and works for boys hardly focus on romance. For a shonen, it was even pretty romantic.
That means, yes, Akatsuki no Yona has absolutely lost its original meaning.
If we are talking about "love" in the terms of romantic love, and shojo in terms of just manga/anime/light novel the most popular one without it is definitely Natsume. The more niche ones are like Gakuen Babysitters, Yuzuki san, or Richard Jeweller (might be josei, but honestly I dont make much of a distinction between the two.)
If we are going outside of the set manga genre into their sister territory manhwa/manhua we will find ones likes Your Throne, A step mother's marchen (Have you read them? these are my personal favourites where romance is a just a side quest.)
I think you misunderstood, yes, the reality of the shoujo genre is that 90% of its content is certainly revolving around romance/love etc., etc., But how many works in this genre actually stand out? Why do they stand out? Is it just because of the romance?
Fruits Basket in its foundation is a simple story. But what really makes it such an untouchable classic? To me some of the most memorable interactions that I always looked forward to more than Tohru/Kyo were of Yuki/Machi, Kureno/Arisa, Ayame/Mine, Hattori/Mayu, Shigeru/Hattori/Ayame, Shigeru/Akito, Ayame/Yuki.
All of these relationships were written with equal thought put into each character, every relationship, so no matter how minor the encounter was it was memorable. Natsuki did not shy away from giving her main characters less panels if it meant diving into her other characters for some time.
AkaYona just went the complete opposite direction.
Where did we see Yona evolve after chapters 160+? It felt like the narrative was force feeding me her so called accomplishments. The level of effort and the result dont match up. You want to tell me she is a genius, on top of being God's favourite child, but at the same time say - Oh, she is just an ordinary human child. - this is the biggest flaw I am talking about. Kusa wanted Yona to be too many things, all written to contradict each other.
Don't get me started on Hak - he has been the same guy since chapter 1. To me that makes Hak a very unattractive character. The writing might fool fourteen year olds into thinking he is some deep character but his writing is worse than the average shonen male MC.
PS: I always forget Inuyasha is a shonen. Despite being called Inuyasha, I for some reason have always considered Kagome the titular character.
Inu Yasha is a good example if you want to tell that the story needs to 'outgrow' its initial genre and catch the attention of people outside the initial target audience. Inuyasha is a shonen that managed to catch the attention of people interested in fantasy and from what I remember there were fans who read for the romance between Inyasha and Kagome.
Ngl I feel like Yona and Su-Won's conversation should have been an entire chapter of its own. Give it the Hak and Su-Won ch 242 treatment. I was hoping they'd discuss their 4 parents, and Il and Yu-Hon especially.
Il especially wasn't willing to listen to Yon-hi's request and even attempt mend the issues between him, Su-Won, and Yona. That was never even brought up. How he never properly raised Yona to be a ruler.
Or Yu-Hon just being a violent psychopath. Like what did Su-Won think of him growing up anyway? What did Su-Won think of Yu-Hon killing Kashi?
Etc.
Like idk, I feel like 2-3 pages was just too short. It's definitely not given the weight and depth that it should.
They don't talk about the power of gods/power of people dynamic they were having at all. Idk. It's just not treated well compared to Hak and Su-Won's dynamic. It's sad, considering how they were foreshadowed this entire time to be foils.
Apart from this. Yes, but that would have needed more nuance and actual talking. Like even the confrontation between King Il and Yu hon was way better. The feelings were so raw, that you hardly needed thoughts.
But in the case of Yona and Soo Won, I would have given something, to get to hear their thoughts. Soo Won has never explained, what made Yona to a good ruler. And why did Yona suddenly accept it? A little thought-process wouldn´t have hurt.
Yona and co. felt more like puppets, than characters.
You are asking difficult questions. Soo-won doesn't explain why Yona would be a good ruler because in my opinion she shows no strong predisposition.
What she has? Average intelligence, she does nothing in the story that screams 'this is really smart'
She has no predisposition for political scheming , which is connected to her average intelligence and rather naive attitude.
She has no schooling to do the job and few months in wilderness will not change it.
In good fantasy books the author often shows why character X would be a good ruler by for example showing that this character is intelligent and resourceful and can often get out of difficult situation, obviously without deus ex machina, but thanks to clever ideas, planning.
I think we can now sum up the manga and how well elements of it are made:
Fantasy - started average, ended badly. The fantasy element were non-existent for a good part of the story and the end with the dragon gods was just LOL.
Political intrigues - started decently, and this part ended up being poorly made. Zero strategy in last war, spies and gathering intelligence gets completely forgotten in the Kai arc.
Elements of mystery - what mystery? Whatever Yona came to believe no matter how little she knew about it, she was proven right. No mystery here.
Romance - started average and ended being average.
No wonder this manga has never become very popular outside shojo fans.
What the mangaka is implying is that her story is in fact an unfunny anecdote and that all of the depth it had was only something we fans imagined.
Because apparently it’s not Il who was a bad king and Yona who was weak and ignorant, but Soo-won who is an idiot, killed a good man for nothing and didn’t see Yona was a diamond princess this whole time.
The moral dilemma of Soo-won having to kill a horrible king to save the country but also betraying his friends as collateral damage was all a mirage. HIS JUDGEMENT WAS WRONG, remember this chat.
That’s the answer to all questions that Kusa delivered.
It’s not even serious anymore, I’ll try to manipulate my brain into forgetting this ending. It never happened. All is good🧚🏻♀️🪄
You can do it, I remember I disliked the ending of Tsubasa Chronicle manga. Now after years, I don't remember any more how it ended. Only memory that I disliked it is left.
