GAIDEN SPOILERS
When Kye-sook says that Hak's role is worthy of a name... what is that, I wonder? King-consort? There is an implication that his status will rise...
Formal title: Grand Herald of the Roads and Eyes of Her Majesty
Short form: Royal Eye of the Roads
Official description
A dignity granted to the person who travels across the Five Tribes in the name of the Crown, listens to the people, inspects roads and settlements, proclaims royal decrees, and reports directly to Her Majesty everything he has witnessed.
Actual description
Hak continues travelling across the kingdom, solving problems and acting as an intermediary, but now Kye-sook has given the position a title so that it looks as though Hak has been promoted.
Yep. I don't see people discussing this either but wtf were the 5 tribes doing? Are they not looking out for their respective tribes? What was the tribal meeting even for? Why isn't Hak working with the Earth Tribe, Geun-tae, Joon-gi etc. and just suffering through this solo?
Yep. Ngl I don't see people discussing this either but wtf were the 5 tribes doing? Are they not looking out for their respective tribes? What was the tribal meeting even for? Why isn't Hak working with the Earth Tribe, Geun-tae, Joon-gi etc. and just suffering through this solo?
I think we may be left without an answer, honestly. There are so many basic questions about how the tribes and the kingdom are supposed to function that I’m not sure it is worth trying to make sense of it anymore.
Yeah there's no substance remaining in this series. It's just the aesthetic larping of a political fantasy. Everyone just naively believes "everything will be fine with Yona as queen". It's dead to me.
Su-Won and his loyalists should have at minimum been faced formal trial during the transition of power, and he should have publicly acknowledged what he did to the kingdom and explained to the people why he did it. Ugh that would have been SO good and a step forward for his character which was all about deception! Carrying out a coup d'Ă©tat can't just be glossed over like that. He gets to just keep it all some personal secret until he goes to his grave? Fuck that, that bastard needs some accountability.
Historically, the way Yona handled this transition was very unrealistic. Rulers don't just absorb people who tried to murder her multiple times without political consequence, that's how you invite future coups. She should have confronted them explicitly about the coup, the assassination, investigated everyone involved, made an official record of its planning, the events, and given terms. She had zero agency in this matter, though, Su-Won called all the shots and she was his yesman.
Welp Yona is an unrealistic person in general. To be fair, no matter the good Soo-won did, what kind of daughter forgives her father’s murderer and now chats with him over tea with honey? Why is Hak still more angry than she ever was? She forgave and surrounded herself with people who spat in her face and wiped their feet on her, I’m not sure it’s something to be proud of.
Yona wouldn’t win any trial though if she tried that, the whole country hates her father, all the nobles, all the generals. No one gives a shit about him and many people were helped out by Soo-won. I don’t think anyone would want Soo-won punished for killing him, even though it was kinda rude lol. Deserved tho
The whole forgiveness trope made it a bit too far in this story overall imo. I think Yona not killing Soo-won and them peacefully parting ways would’ve sufficed, and would’ve been better in general for both of them. But I get that Soo-won never wanted Yona or Hak dead, and he went very far for them. I also see no other place for Soo-won than an influential political figure, he was born for that stuff. To Yona his knowledge is super useful too as she’s now only learning, and he likes what he’s doing soo🤷‍♀️
Same with Keishuk and the other plotters, Yona normally should’ve gotten rid of them. You rule alone surrounded by people you can realistically never trust. If we’re real they’re just using Yona because she’s useful to them, they NEVER were kind to her or in any way proved they mean no harm, on the contrary made it crystal clear - one mistake and you’re dead. But the story didn’t show any substitution for them, I guess Yona simply doesn’t have a choice but to stick with them. Thats why her end is kinda hopeless, it feels as if she had no choice but to go along with this.
Yona did have an alternative: she could have refused the throne.
She was not being compelled by a law of nature, an irresistible prophecy, or an assembly crowning her at spearpoint.
She could have said:
“I do not want the throne under these conditions.”
“I will not govern by relying on the same men who tried to kill me.”
“I will not accept a crown handed to me by the man behind the coup without a clear transition, an investigation, or any conditions.”
But she accepted it. From that moment on, she cannot be presented as someone with no options who was simply swept along by circumstances. She chose to enter that structure.
Even after accepting the throne, Yona still had alternatives. She could have dismissed Kye-sook. She could have refused to keep Su-Won as an adviser. She could have replaced those involved in the coup and formed her own government.
That would have meant actually exercising power. But she would also have needed her own competent people, administrative knowledge, a political network, experience, and a transition plan. She had none of those things.
Then it would have become obvious that Yona was not prepared to govern without relying on Su-Won’s political and administrative machinery.
A kingdom does not remain standing because its queen stares intensely at the reports until they arrange themselves.
So it is not true that she “had no choice.” She had choices, but the alternatives would have exposed her lack of capacity:
Refuse the throne, and give up the ending the narrative wanted for her.
Accept the throne and purge the court, risking serious collapse because she had no competent replacements.
Accept the throne and keep Kye-sook and Su-Won, allowing the kingdom to function while undermining any claim to genuine independence.
Agency does not mean having a comfortable option. It means choosing between difficult alternatives and accepting the consequences.
Yona chose the third option. It may have been pragmatic. It may even have been the least harmful option. But it was still a choice, and it should be called what it was: Yona inherited the crown, but she also inherited Su-Won’s government, including his officials and his knowledge.
She did not build a government of her own. She placed herself at the top of the existing one.
Which makes the idea that everyone now depends on Yona’s extraordinary political ability rather amusing. If she dismissed the administrator and rejected the former king as her adviser, she would probably be left without a kingdom within two days, and without any subjects capable of appreciating how incredibly “fortunate” they are to have her as queen.
The crown is hers. The machinery of government still belongs to them.
That would have meant actually exercising power. But she would also have needed her own competent people, administrative knowledge, a political network, experience, and a transition plan. She had none of those things. Then it would have become obvious that Yona was not prepared to govern without relying on Su-Won’s political and administrative machinery. A kingdom does not remain standing because its queen stares intensely at the reports until they arrange themselves.
Indeed. Yona had no effective strategy on her own how to raise the country out of its ashes. Yona is responsible for this statue as well.
Therefore it is the more logical conclusion to use the given resources, because strife would hurt the whole country further.
If she had wished to get killed sooner than later, she could have tried to eliminate Soo Won, but this would have led sooner or later either to her murder or to Hak´s.
Agency does not mean having a comfortable option. It means choosing between difficult alternatives and accepting the consequences. Yona chose the third option. It may have been pragmatic. It may even have been the least harmful option. But it was still a choice, and it should be called what it was: Yona inherited the crown, but she also inherited Su-Won’s government, including his officials and his knowledge.
I think, it goes even further. How many people of the entire Sky Tribe had collaborated? Basically all the guards. How deep is Soo Won´s rule established? I think, it would be difficult if not completely impossible to remove Soo Won. Or she may call herself "Bloody Mary". The Tudor daughter had tried to reestablish the former belief and remove disobedient people with disastrious consequences.
Should she let Jon Gi, Lily´s father, who has also collaborated also be killed? What about Geuntae, who has a little son? Does she wish for the son to take revenge on her? Or even become like Soo Won´s father, kiling the baby?
Then she would hurt Lily the same way, she was hurt. I think, that this girl has greatly helped Yona to see the possible consequences.
Which makes the idea that everyone now depends on Yona’s extraordinary political ability rather amusing. If she dismissed the administrator and rejected the former king as her adviser, she would probably be left without a kingdom within two days, and without any subjects capable of appreciating how incredibly “fortunate” they are to have her as queen. The crown is hers. The machinery of government still belongs to them.
Indeed. Like in the example I have provided with Japan´s history. Yona was lucky, that Soo Won bent the knee in front of her, as she was also responsible for the disaster in the first place.
The former japanese emperor, the "compassionate" collaborated with the Eagle, because they spared his life.
I never argued that Yona should execute every person who collaborated with Su-Won. Accountability does not automatically mean bloodshed. There were many possibilities between keeping the entire existing power structure unchanged and carrying out a violent purge: investigation, public acknowledgment, selective dismissal, limitations on authority, formal conditions, and gradual institutional reform.
Naturally, none of that could be achieved in a single day. Then again, this is Yona, who became a god-tier archer in a couple of months, so perhaps rebuilding the state apparatus before lunch would not be beyond her.
But I agree with one thing you said: Yona had no effective strategy or administrative structure of her own, so keeping Su-Won and Kye-sook was the pragmatic option. That is precisely my point. She had choices, but she chose continuity because she was not capable of governing without the machinery they had built.
It may have been the least harmful choice, but it was still her choice, and it does not demonstrate political independence.
I never argued that Yona should execute every person who collaborated with Su-Won. Accountability does not automatically mean bloodshed. There were many possibilities between keeping the entire existing power structure unchanged and carrying out a violent purge: investigation, public acknowledgment, selective dismissal, limitations on authority, formal conditions, and gradual institutional reform.
If she had the resources yes, but most of the government served under Soo Won. Yona lacks the literal possibilty to perform this trick. Yona needed the literal education to come up even with this. I think, she might be clever enough, but she surely lacks much methodical knowledge on how to run a country.
Even though I believe, the people involved are all so strickingly and unnaturally nice, that they would have removed themselves.
Naturally, none of that could be achieved in a single day. Then again, this is Yona, who became a god-tier archer in a couple of months, so perhaps rebuilding the state apparatus before lunch would not be beyond her.
If you practice archery, it is not impossible to shoot successfully in a couple of hours, actually. Not on moving objects at the beginning, but later it would be likely possible. Since I have at least a little experience with archery, I believe it is not unrealistic for Yona to become good at archery in a short time frame.
Kusanagi however, was not so unrealistic to establish, that Yona could literally run a country on her own in a short time.
But I agree with one thing you said: Yona had no effective strategy or administrative structure of her own, so keeping Su-Won and Kye-sook was the pragmatic option. That is precisely my point. She had choices, but she chose continuity because she was not capable of governing without the machinery they had built. It may have been the least harmful choice, but it was still her choice, and it does not demonstrate political independence.
Indeed. Japan could only stand on its feet after years after the Second World War. 1952 they became independant.
If becoming an accomplished archer only takes a couple of months, apparently we have all been wasting our Olympic potential.
Maybe you have. I know, you consider my words not true, likely. But I tried it out myself. I was astonished, when I was able to shoot the aim within mere 2 hours.
Did I became a master at shooting? Certainly not. But I was able to hit the aim - an unmoving object - not too far away from the centre. Why should Yona then not be able to learn archery in a short time frame?
If Yona trains for months for several hours, she certainly might be able to shoot moving objects. Yoon taught her how, additionally. She had to take into consideration, how her opponent would move.
Yona must be certainly pretty strong herself, since she is used to draw the bow. You need quite a fair amount of muscle to perform that trick.
Maybe you have. I know, you consider my words not true, likely. But I tried it out myself. I was astonished, when I was able to shoot the aim within mere 2 hours.
I do not consider your words untrue. The same thing happened to me the first and only time I tried archery. I hit the target, quite a few times, actually.
But, like you, I certainly did not become a master. No matter how lucky or naturally competent I may have been that day, I would still be incapable of hitting a small moving target, travelling away from me, at night, from a moving boat in the middle of a battle. And I certainly would not expect to acquire that ability within two months.
Besides, a modern recreational bow used under controlled conditions is also not automatically comparable to an older bow intended for practical combat and made from different materials.
Yoon explaining that Yona had to anticipate her opponent’s movement does not solve the problem either. Intellectually understanding that a target moves does not grant you the physical and technical ability to hit it. I understand perfectly well that playing the piano requires reading music and coordinating both hands. Carnegie Hall is still not reserving me a date.
Yona must certainly be pretty strong herself, since she is used to drawing the bow.
But being able to draw a bow is not the same as being able to shoot it well. I can draw a bow too, but there is a very long distance between physically pulling the string back and using the weapon with consistent accuracy.
More importantly, we do not actually see Yona gradually developing the strength and technique required. The manga simply tells us, through the results it gives her, that she can do it. Using those same results as proof that her progress was realistic is circular reasoning.
That is precisely what I am criticizing: the manga gives her this level of ability without sufficient preparation. The disputed result cannot be used as proof that the process was believable.
I do not consider your words untrue. The same thing happened to me the first and only time I tried archery. I hit the target, quite a few times, actually. But, like you, I certainly did not become a master. No matter how lucky or naturally competent I may have been that day, I would still be incapable of hitting a small moving target, travelling away from me, at night, from a moving boat in the middle of a battle. And I certainly would not expect to acquire that ability within two months.
Amazing. So you tried it also just one time, like me!! I would have loved to continue, but unfortunately, I was - then- too scared of all the people in that club.
And my mother was not really happy, if I grew any muscles. So I stopped after this one time. Also a matter of money, but oh well. I thought recently, now as a grown-up I want to continue.
But can you 100 % predict, if you really gave it your all...not just for 2 hours, but for several months. 2 months to be exactly, that you would not be able to hit the target?
I hit the target suddenly. Again and again, it worked. Just in two hours!!!
Yona trained for months!!! Not just for one hour per day, but hours!!! Again and again. Yona was determined to get it right.
I mean, for fuck´s sake!! Why did you stop??!!! You have talent for it. This was so easy in contrast to so many things I have done so far. Do you even know, how long I took for being able to read?!! So long. I hated to repeat all these words without any sense. The moment however I enjoyed it, when I was able to read whole books, when I was finally able to see, that it worked, I started to read really thick books so quickly. If you see, how it works, you try to think of ways, so that it works even better.
And archery was so much fun. Really fun. Just like with reading. It was different than playing music. I had so much trouble, since I am unable to coordinate much of my movements so well with my fingers. But playing music did not give me so much. However, occasionally I still do it. Maybe it was just the wrong instrument?
Besides, a modern recreational bow used under controlled conditions is also not automatically comparable to an older bow intended for practical combat and made from different materials.
Indeed. But not everything old is harder to use automatically. Or worse. I have read that materials in our clothes are worse than it used to be. The people, who used the bows, used it, not for fun, but because they depended upon it. Therefore it would be logical from my point of view, that they would use materials, that would be practical enough.
The history of the bow and arrow is entwined in the history of humanity. Archery initially emerged as a technique for hunting and then later for warfare. The earliest evidence of archery – arrowheads made of flint – dates back to around 20,000 BC. It’s possible that early humans were using bows and arrows even earlier.
Archery is also quite old and was used for quite an amount of time - that means, it was overall practical enough for human beings to practice for a very long time.
I am not very strong, but it was possible for me to use it. Therefore Yona might be able to use it. Additionally I have read it, that even children as young as 4 or 5 years could use it. Though, to be honest, most are at least 8 years.
Yoon explaining that Yona had to anticipate her opponent’s movement does not solve the problem either. Intellectually understanding that a target moves does not grant you the physical and technical ability to hit it. I understand perfectly well that playing the piano requires reading music and coordinating both hands. Carnegie Hall is still not reserving me a date.
It can actually. It can give Yona enough self-confidence, after she had hit one time, to try it again and again, until she can perform the wonder again.
If you believe you can do nothing and then can do something finally. Oh, what a feeling. To not feel so small anymore, you try it and try it and try it and try it and try it - again and again and again.
And when you finally get it. You feel a lil bit like Heracles. And love the whole world.
How long do you play the piano? Do you like it? The more you like something, the better you can get. You find ways to circumvent limits.
When I got into school, people believed I would be just a good for nothing. i was slow. I was a dreamer. But there was one person, who believed in me and so I did find ways to become better. Much better. (I went to university after all and got my master´s degree.)
This person was my mother. She was so strong.
My mother looked like this to me.
If important people believe in Yona, there is nothing she cannot do.
I learnt reading through writing. And so I wrote. Again and again.
If you give up, you have unfortunately lost from the start.
But being able to draw a bow is not the same as being able to shoot it well. I can draw a bow too, but there is a very long distance between physically pulling the string back and using the weapon with consistent accuracy.
You learn the accurancy with time. Drawing the bow must be like riding a bike or riding a horse. You have to do it nearly without thinking much. You unconciously do the right thing with time.
I understand the importance of persistence because I had a similar experience with sewing. When I was about six, my aunt made my cousins and me spend a couple of hours sewing and embroidering every weekend before we were allowed to go outside.
Technically, I could “sew” the first time I picked up a needle: the needle went through the fabric, and the thread followed it. But the result was terrible. I still have some of those little cloths, and they are precious memories, but they are very badly made.
A couple of years later, my work was much better. By the age of ten, I could make very beautiful pieces, and at twelve I sewed my first pair of trousers entirely by hand. But developing clean technique, speed, consistency, and my own way of holding the fabric and pushing the needle with a thimble did not take two months. It did not even take two years. It took much longer.
That is my point. Beginners can acquire the basic ability to perform an action quite quickly. But quality, efficiency and mastery require persistence and time. A great deal of time. And sewing does not even require the muscular strength or the extreme conditions involved in combat archery.
But can you predict with 100% certainty that, if you really gave it your all for two months rather than just two hours, you would not be able to hit the target?
Could I hit it? Possibly. But after only two months, I could not confidently attribute that result to mastery rather than luck. Luck exists. If I landed such a shot by chance, I would recognise it as exactly that: a lucky shot, not proof that I possessed the level of skill required to make it reliably.
And there would be nothing wrong with that. A lucky shot is still a successful shot. It simply does not prove mastery.
Because yes, I am completely confident that after only two months, even if I gave it my all, my skill level would not be sufficient to reliably hit a small moving target travelling away from me, at night, from a moving platform, in the middle of a battle.
For the same reason, Yona could have hit the target by sheer luck, and that would have been perfectly acceptable. The problem is that the manga does not present it as an extraordinary fluke. It presents it as proof of the skill she has acquired. That is where the feat stops being a lucky shot and begins to require a level of development that the story never provides.
Yona trained for months!!! Not just for one hour per day, but for hours!!! Again and again. Yona was determined to get it right.
If I remember correctly, Yona was said to shoot two hundred arrows every night. That does not simply mean releasing the string two hundred times. She has to nock an arrow, draw, aim, shoot, retrieve it, return to her position and repeat the entire process. Even at an unrealistically fast pace, that would take several hours.
Yona was also a complete beginner who spent her days travelling. When was she sleeping, recovering, or developing the physical conditioning required to repeat that routine every night?
The first arrow is not the same as the tenth, the twentieth or the fiftieth. At the beginning, you are rested. As you repeat the movement, your muscles fatigue, your draw becomes slower, your posture less stable and your accuracy worse.
Nor do you begin the next day from zero. You begin with the soreness, stiffness and accumulated fatigue from the previous session. The body eventually adapts, but that adaptation itself takes time.
Blisters are an additional problem because the same injured areas continue to receive friction and pressure before they have properly healed. Until the skin toughens and the technique improves, every new session can aggravate the damage.
I know this from agricultural work. I have harvested grapes and picked potatoes, onions, almonds and olives. Different tasks, of course, but the body still follows the same basic rules: repetitive work causes muscle soreness, fatigue and blisters, and the next day you do not start fresh. You start with the damage and exhaustion left by the day before.
So saying that Yona shot hundreds of arrows every night does not automatically make her progress more convincing. To me, it raises further questions about fatigue, recovery, injury and declining performance.
Saying that she was determined and had great stamina does not make the training schedule believable. It merely gives the narrative another shortcut.
The more arrows the manga claims she practised with every night, the less plausible the rest of her daily life becomes.
Practice is cumulative, but so is fatigue.
“You learn accuracy with time.” Exactly. With time.
Anyway, archery was really fun that day.
