Mike: i am gonna say right now
that any album with a track called 'introduction' gives me bad vibes
Anna: i wish they'd called it anything else, but i like how it works
i just listened to an album by the person who did the music for halo 4
i think they should have hired warpaint
Mike: hahahahaahahah maybe
Anna: intro into first 'real' song is flawless
Mike: this is fair
Anna: or i just think so because this is my favorite song
there’s no words/seein’s belivin’
Mike: just from the get go
this is SOME rhythm section
drums/bass are always, always on point
and then it actually comes to a climax/takes a turn
which is weird because some of these songs that we're getting to just sorta drift for a while
Anna: the cynic in me says that's because it's front loaded with singles
Mike: oh it's totally front loaded
next one is my favorite song
reminds me of the joshua tree
Anna: wow this is actually one of my less favorite
even though i know it's the one that draws a lot of people in
Mike: it's the only song with a real Hook
love is to die, etc.
Anna: haven't figured out what it all means yet
some of the other ones i have a hunch
this one... idk i guess love is to die
Mike: i don't know if it means anything, i dunno if they're really concerned w meaning
bon iver apparently puts the effect the words have way before the actual meaning of the words i think these guys do the same
Anna: these women ty
Mike: oh yeah ur right
i try not to think about them like that as dumb as that sounds
was talking abt them w/a friend who said something kind of biting abt them getting as far as they have, at least in part, because they're all attractive l.a. girls
Anna: surely it doesn't hurt to look like a free people catalog but also both their albums are real good
Mike: and i honestly didn't know what they looked like? and then i realized wow wtf she was totally right
oh man this beat
read an interview where one of the band people said that whenever given the option by the drummer she'd pick the beat that was 'more hip-hop'
and one of the things i actually really dig about this album is the rhythm section i think that might be why to some extent
Anna: that's a good quote, i hadn't thought about it like that
Mike: i know there's something being sung but i just get really into how good the rhythm underlying everything is
they're apparently kind of jammy live?
which makes a lot of sense this is a band that sounds like they do a LOT of practicing/jamming
was not able to watch much of them live (have you seen them) but did read multiple concert reviews describing them as seeming linked together when playing
four bodies one mind/goal
Anna: i haven't
the backing loop at the end of this song, it’s great
Mike: oh man yeah i would agree with that
also ok this synth thing is... one of the only things that ever really sticks with me about this album
like i'll hum this
i'm telling u a lot of my problem w/this album is a distinct lack of hummability
Anna: this is one of the parts that reminds me of the best things about austra
Mike: it seems like they want it to have memorable things/differences song to song but maybe because of all the jamming or something it becomes a mostly homogenous mass
Anna: i don't see what you're describing as a weakness
it's like a geode or a kaleidoscope, and you see different things as it turns but it comes from one source
Mike: i don't think it is a weakness, really? it's just how they are
they're on this spectrum between like 'every song must be very different from every other song' and 'phish'
and they're closer to phish than most things
most things i hear at least
i really like it, it's been a good album to put on while cleaning or cooking
Anna: this was my driving album for a week or so
had to take it out of my car because it was frightening jen
it's kinda bleak!
if this album were a landscape i think it would be a tundra
Mike: foggy but you can see the moon out
sorry i've been listening to a lot of crimson
also for real trip hop Vibes
Anna: i dig it
Mike: i like that part a lot it always feels just right
they just brought it down for a little bit and it was just right, just the right amount, and now that it's coming back it feels just as considered
on joshua tree they gave the album to the producer's wife, said (x) should be first, (y) should be last and then she arranged the songs between (x) and (y) by how much she liked them basically
so the hits are the start of the album and then the filler is in the back
which is cool in a way
Anna: i know you love that joshua tree story
also they have the same producer
Mike: oh i caught the reference
Anna: so disco//very
Mike: yet another rly good groove
and notice that the bass is in the FRONT AND CENTER
louder than everything else
Anna: this has to be the most threatening this band has ever been
Mike: that jittery guitar line in the back... yes
i think these vocals are probably saying something scary or something but there's so much other stuff going on
Anna: hey is that a hum
Mike: sure sounds like it
also this is another pseudo-hip hop drum line and i dig it
sorry but it is really rare hearing a drummer/bassist taking risks/leading things
Anna: go in is the song where i really feel it
the tension is so high, it’s like this mordant jump rope rhyme
Mike: the synth is the part i like best i think
that one that keeps gradually fading in/out
could take or leave the vocals/guitar going along with them
Anna: if there were an instrumental version of this album would you never listen to the vocal one again
Mike: they contribute, sometimes, but they're not that important to me enjoying the rest of it
that part in the songs could be something other than a voice, there could be no words at all, and i'm not sure it would change that much
it would also hopefully mean the instruments would have to step up their game a little/get a bit more complex
Anna: there are certain lines i really look forward to hearing
Mike: oh true like sometimes something emerges out of the ether
not careless, not hopeless, you can't bring me down
i liked suddenly understanding and it was this part
Anna: feeling alright is probably my favorite from the second half
Mike: as i recall this cc song doesn't really go anywhere but i Might be wrong
Anna: she says "holding out for love" but i think it's about drugs, so if it doesn't go anywhere maybe it makes sense
Mike: hm yes
nodding song
why do you think this one is called drive...... hm....
Anna: it's nice tho it percolates
Mike: i just meant because it's like such a night driving song
and it reminds me in a very positive way of 'night drive' by chromatics
Anna: "i'm a lucky child" is climax enough for me
Mike: i think when i started listening to this i was expecting something much more like 'love is to die' over and over again than this
this is very textural, more about a conveying a mood than anything specific
they all are to varying extents but i expected more song
Anna: every track is about the same length but there's not a format
it plays really well as a whole
i have favorites but i feel they're arbitrary and i could easily change them
Mike: it's not a 'favorite song' kind of album really i think it just works for you or it doesn’t
Anna: it does but i might be the target audience
last song has such last song vibes
Mike: no kidding
oh hey everything just got slow and ballad-y
Anna: when i close my eyes i see a credit rolling
one lone credit
Mike: moving heavenwards
ok you know what it reminds me of
four people trying to do something like this live
Anna: remember i mentioned the guy who did the halo soundtrack? neil davidge, he produced that massive attack album
Mike: wtf...
you see what i'm saying though right like big bass/rhythm, ethereal-ass vocals, similar tempo
Anna: totally
apparently there's a relatively small number of people doing it
Mike: it's kind of hard to do better than the people who did it back in the day
also ok pitchfork said
But while trip-hop has long been derogated as functional lifestyle music, it began as a forward-thinking deconstruction, and the difference between the titans of the genre to which Warpaint has been errantly compared (Portishead, Massive Attack) and the forgotten second tier were the same things that guide pop music from time immemorial: a compelling vocal presence, innovation, a perspective, or more briefly, songs.
i actually have a massive soft spot for trip-hop that isn't portishead/massive attack
explains why i kept listening to this album i think
Anna: why not those two
Mike: i don't know if that pitchfork guy really gets it because he's trying to separate the critically acclaimed bands from that time from the lesser ones and trip-hop is all really similar tbqh
it's just really rad background music that rewards some concentration if you want to but doesn't demand it
would say that's warpaint too
Anna: katie n from austra has a better voice but i'd rather listen to warpaint
the vibes are chiller
Anna: so i'm obsessed with this album and i'm not going to shut up
Mike: dude fucking GO FOR IT
what is that mechanical noise
why is it there
it works
Anna: it’s this
but it sounds like the pump on an oil field somewhere, doesn't it?
this song is a drag, really
it's the most mellow possible opening for this side of the record
but it's like the church bells calling you to service
that's what "listen up" is
Mike: ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space
start with a slow one, let people work their way into it
Anna: don't forget the rich ones who were kind
Andrew Carnegie, maybe
the donors who built the church
he’s got a lot to get off his chest
about modern life and religion and his peers
but first it's like "gather round"
did you ever sleep on the floor of a high school gym
god how many times
like think of all the mornings you spent sitting in the gym/cafeteria
or the time or i went on drug-free weekend camp
Mike: i thought of it as being like..
yeah like a youth retreat
Anna: yeah, the kind of nostalgia he’s been too young to think about before
did you notice the beat dropped out
Mike: i mean the dude is actually saying high school
Anna: he’s like whispering to you
Mike: there's a little wobble sort of in the back that keeps time
Anna: and he's about to let loose with everything else he has to say about where's from and who he is and what it means
first on the list
the damned church
like do you even have to ask why i love this song
Mike: i kept hearing this on the radio and being kind of annoyed
Anna: it is in the rare category of being a song i actually listen to and a song i have on my workout playlist
Mike: i guess it has a real hook but the part i always remember is DUNK DUNK DUNK
Anna: lol
we always said grace before meals
i was/am a little unbelieving shit, always passed on my turn, and kept my eyes open
and you construct your whole youth rebellion out of that kind of thing and then where do you turn
Mike: existentialism
then you get out of your teens and it's like hey remember how you always felt off, that's only getting worse
Anna: also you can watch their fame and success weighing on them
hence the fate
also this chariots of fire ending, total workout song
and then we just tone it down again
Mike: i don't know why the font for modern vampires is up in the corner
i would like it if that wasn't there
also i BELIEVE there's autotune on this
let me listen real close to the vocals
Anna: also a buncha puns
Angkor Wat/Mechanicsburg
Mike: this is the shit i don't like.. congratulations you went to college
Anna: did i mention we are going to appreciate VASTLY different things about this album
Mike: i like that they say 'step to my girl' though
Anna: i love and eat up double entendres and literary references
like literary references #1 thing that is going to get me into your music
i read Neon Bible when that came out
Mike: yeah generally the best part about music is the part where it references books, for me
the whole sound thing, i take, i leave
Anna: stale conversation deserves but a bread knife
oh wait wait wait we missed the Talking Heads reference
ancestors told me their girl is better
Mike: i really just like having something to look up on songmeanings after
#liberal #arts #liberalarts
Anna: wisdom’s a gift but you trade it for youth
the sentiments in this song vs. the next one
it's like degrees of anger, almost
Mike: for real though god damn everything about this is gorgeous
the bassline literally sounds like it's stepping up and down between the chords
Anna: there’s this incredibly specific/visercal description of age
being the age to have your wisdom teeth out
and just starting to feel it in your bones
and "such a modest mouse”
which is right back to the high school gym, honestly
Mike: 9___________9
Anna: no idea about the weird lowered voice
w/e Ezra
Mike: the dream does it, ezra likes him
at least one of them likes the song the-dream did with drake a LOT
Anna: did you know Saab got real mad about them torching that car
didn't realize they were giving it away to have it burned on camera
Mike: i did hear about that
also i just call this song 'dying young' in my head because fucking hell who caaaaaaaaaaares
Anna: another thing going on all the way through is a lot of current and historical political references
"flip flopping" and then the Kennedys
things that are short-lived, opinions and people
Mike: music isn't, though
good thing they tied it to that
Anna: i used to listen to this when i would run around the golf course uptown
think you can make it to the 18th hole
and grabbing the wheel
because this is a Car Album
i couldn't put it in the station so i just threw it in my car
so last.fm will never know how many dozens of listens it gets
Mike: i generally don't like the fast songs they do, they always feel like they're dance music for people who get really nervous about dancing
'bad enough just getting old’
i like that
Anna: you know i love the past because i hate suspense
like watching classic movies
don’t lie doesn't really do it for me
Mike: ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i like this one
another slow song
get to hear ezra crooning
he gets WAY better at singing
he sounds the same but he gets better
Anna: but i like that it's right here
because a huge part of this record is the pacing
it's the most classic 12-song album format and they do it so well
i had some deep read of this song set up but i forget now
Mike: it’s about not lying
Anna: it's about mortality
it's the second take on Diane Young
the thoughtful, less angry strain of thought
Mike: jesus christ so they might as well have called this 'holy shit we're almost 30'
Anna: ayyyyyyy-uuuup
"there's a headstone right in front of you" don't get dramatic or anything bro
vamp weeks' "do you reeeeeeeeeallllliiiize"
Mike: that band
is the worst thing
Anna: but that idea, of asking everyone else "does this not bother you"
that's a lot of his frustration
now this one is my Ezra croon jam
one time i listened to this song right before i went into work and they'd rearranged the potted plants
tru story
but imagine going on a road trip with someone and discovering about yourself and your relationship and the middle american economy
living in your own weird car time, and staying in motel beds and not fucking
Mike: i did that, anna
it wasn't like this
for one thing it was much longer
another thing: more driving
Anna: one thing about my BFF is that after about four days in a car we don't get along so well anymore
it's a stress test
hey-o the US dollar
Mike: hi i'm almost 30?
i subscribed to the economist
but i've just been looking at the covers for the last couple weeks
Anna: this is my FAVE
the sing it out chorus and the theremin
this is the most soulful theremin of all time
Mike: yeah
it's... not
it's a slide guitar
Anna: shut up i love this song
and time to flip the record
like i said
classic album structure
so #7 and #8 gotta be catchy
also i just finished watching The Master two hours ago
that's what i'm imagining Everlasting Arms being about right now
Mike: i liked the part where it fell out
that was ok
and confronting scientology
all about that
Anna: thought it over and drew the curtain, like willfully accepting denial
Mike: beneath the chandelier
CALLBACK
Anna: and at the same time admitting he'll never comprehend the slavery experience, the kind of thing they've been accused of since the beginning
hang onto that idea it's about to come back
finger back, if you will
i'm going to have to type fast
this song is kind of silly but it's still worth it
Mike: it has the best part
too bad about the song
Anna: hit with me a wood bat, hit me like a yankee, something something never a slave
baseball being the american pastime and the first sport to integrate
my other theory about this song is that it's kind of a dog-whistle to kinky ezra groupies
"the punishment i needed all my life" "baby you're mine" "baby you're not anybody's fool"
all the enticement and reassurance i needed, thx bb
Mike: what's that one band
dirty somethings
Anna: projectors
Mike: ohhhhhhhhh yeah
that one
ok keep going
Anna: so text in songs
i love em
i love em unconditionally
text in art
Mike: i like this one
it might be the word ‘falafel'
falafel
god DAMMIT they are singing again
i don’t want to live like this anna
Anna: city with the weight upon it feels a bit 9/11 to me
obviously it's about the cover image too
but weight of tragedy, and then the rest of the song being about uncertainty in who you're following/worshipping
Mike: did they run out of african things to rip off
did rostam lose his copy of graceland
maybe that's the real message here
'hello could you please return my paul simon album, world’
Anna: just got a new release that’s a big ol graceland ripoff
you'd hate it
i love it
but how many albums aspire to american geography, and american society, and personal relationships to spirituality
Mike: i mean american geography
sufjan
society
basically any music made is the product of a society right
so they're all about that
personal relationships to spirituality? do you mean... ...
i dunno that could be basically anything
Anna: or it could be bouncing into graceland
i phrased it p badly but it's obvious what album they're harking to
Mike: more importantly yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hey
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hey
second song on their second album literally sounds like they're trying to play a song off graceland
like it's TRANSPARENT
Anna: they used to be a more transparent band
Mike Kramer: um
they started out with like
an album that is basically just half an hour of a song
just one song
and everything they do that's different people are like OH SHIT SWITCHING IT UP
Anna: one of the things i like about this side of the album is that it's a little more spacey and opaque
less angry than the first half
Mike: they made an album that is preoccupied with aging right before they all turned 30 anna
i looked that up and i still am sort of having trouble believing it
it's like they got this book 'HOW TO BE AN ARTIST... AT EVERY STAGE OF YOUR LIFE' at a thrift store
Anna: we’re living in a generation of personal brand fanatics engaged in constant self-reflection
this really shouldn't surprise you
Mike: you can be wayyyyyyyyyyyy less obvious about it
kind of wonder how much of the appeal of these guys is just playing 'catch the reference'
Anna: never realized how creepy some of the effects on Hudson are
didn't enjoy this one ever until i was playing this album while i was moving out of my old house, alone in the middle of the night
Mike: i actually like this song i was just following the inner jerk for a while
Anna: the pacing mike the pacing
it's so good i don't even listen to the songs sometimes
Mike: the pacing... is a thing that's been done though
it's you catching a reference
'only 90s kids will get this'
Anna: you don't listen to as many half-baked attempts at debut albums as i do
their first album worked as a full-length and that is a difficult, subtle thing
this one is like masterpiece structure
Mike: it wasn't their first full length you goof
blue cd-r right
Anna: i have no idea i don't know that much about them
i tried to listen to contra for a second and thought it sounded sort of like the postal service and turned it off
i just love this album
down to this last track that is clearly just here to be an outro and bring the count up to 12
Mike: 12 play - r kelly
also every dream album has 12 main tracks not counting intros/bonus
Anna: i’m not trying to say it's original!
Mike: none of it is
i'm telling you this gets so much love because it's the musical equivalent of a guy doing stand-up like
REMEMBER POGS
REMEMBER POKEMON CARDS
HAHA THAT WAS WEIRD RIGHT
OH MAN AND WE ALL HAD NINTENDOOOOOOOOS
Anna: remember how the pilgrims stole the native peoples' land and introduced the idea of private property
remember the paranoid style in american politics
remember how we got entangled in foreign wars
Mike Kramer: ...references
Anna: yes, totally banal pop culture references, the veritable equivalent of pokemon cards
Mike: they are if you take into account vampire weekend's target demographic
like this shit is aimed at you, me, every single human being who has ever thought 'i should move to new york, go to shows, ride a fixed gear, drink a pourover’
which makes sense because that's vampy weeks' whole deal like that's what They are
i can't tell whether they figured out how to do this on purpose or they honestly think it's coming from somewhere Else
Anna: oh i think they figured it out
they are very keen that everyone know they're clever devils
golly, what am i going to do with this ivy league degree, i'll start a band, that'll show 'em
Mike: yeah but i mean are they like cashing in, writing music and thinking man this shit's gonna look great in starbucks
or are they like man this song kicks ass, we are veritable geniuses
because i was just watching that seinfeld interview
seinfeld had shit ratings for four seasons, you know why it stayed on the air? the people who DID watch it were rich
if you aim at a well-educated group of people you can make a comfortable living
maybe not like... headline glastonbury but i bet it keeps ezra's fridge stocked with soy/almond/whatever milk
Anna: so would the actual job he could get with his degree
but they went for this
so why can't it be both
Mike: well yeah
people cheer you on for this
it's rad as fuck
maybe it is!
i just like the idea of them cackling like
hooooooly shit we keep pumping this shit out and they keep buying it
ok also now i'm listening to graceland it's like
the wiggles vs. the beatles
Anna: i was under the impression they almost didn't make this album
i think you can hear that in some of the ambiguity and sadness and anger that motivates it
and how they clearly feel like they've been stung by their critics and aren't sure they can justify continuing when they're so easy to mock
which, obviously, upper east side problems!
but i don't think it's like, crank up the crossover indie rock factory and the precocious lyrics machine, we're making another one
Mike: they're just
pleasant i guess
pleasant and not especially interesting
wallpaper music
i caught myself putting them on and kind of bobbing my head while doing.. literally anything else
it's like.. i like them
but i don't want to reward boring
Anna: stale conversation
Mike: yeah we run into this a LOT huh
Anna: deserves but a bread knife
that's objectively the best song
Mike: FALAFEL
falafel for best word of forever
Anna: i can agree to those terms
i'm really excited to see what they try to do next
i don't think you can get much archetypically better than this
which means they have to be really weird
very exciting
i don't care if i ever listen to contra
Mike: first album is kinda raw and party-y, second one is lush but still upbeat, this is their 'dark album’
establishing that emotional range
seems like they have two options
one: another rad fun time party album, gets the kids dancing
two: bit simpler, bit darker, lots of articles about how 'deep' this one is
$$$ vs. critics
Anna: ~~stay tuned~~
i swear i used to be disinterested
when they were headlining at Pitchfork last year i left before their set because i just didn't care anymore
but i really, really like this album
any more vamps gripes?
are you prepared to wear the plastic fangs and the "sunday" t-shirt in our vamp weeks couples halloween costume
Mike: i mean not without getting to mention an international zionist conspiracy no
you did get me to like.. listen to something i didn't really like and appreciate it a LOT more
like when it comes to arranging
you can tell it took years
Anna: i mean, do i feel like a fucking idiot when i drive all over new orleans playing it, of course
Mike: let's just get it over with worst case it's funny best case something interesting happens
Anna: for the record i'm sorry this took so long
Mike: ok yeezus
WE GOTTA GO
!!!!!!!!
Anna: major lazers
Mike: the first time i played this for my sister/the first time i heard this it sounded like a joke
Anna: up to like 4 or 5 potentially offensive references in the first minute
Mike: yep
he doesn't give a fuck
also
he'll give us what we need
it may not be what we want
is basically a statement of purpose for the album
Anna: also, dicks in mouths
which is a p decent image of his attitude towards society i guess?
but still
mentally gagging
Mike: this is also yet another kanye song where he talks about how afraid he is of getting a girl pregnant
I LOVE how he cracks up at the end of that line
Anna: it is a nice laugh though
Mike: just letting you know he's in on the joke
OH MAN and then this
the ultimate car wheel drumming song
Anna: he's not taking himself seriously but people sure do love to
Mike: and oh my god gary GLITTER anna
like what a great idea what a great sample
and the screaming
i love the screaming
Anna: i definitely found this whole album a lot more abrasive the first time through
sonically
this song makes me wonder how many racially loaded images i missed when i used to watch lots of VHS tapes of classic cartoons as a kid
Mike: ain't breathin, you gaspin
but yeah this is like the skeleton of a song intended to be HUGE like playing it to stadiums etc.
oh man anna you have no idea
and then this song
that hour-long interview he did w/bbc dude a while back
he talks about how being a kanye west fan is just being a fan of yourself
like his goal is to help you kick ass
as absurd as that is, really works here
Anna: if your workout playlist is Kanye, maybe
Mike: i have watch the throne memorized because it was my workout album for like a year
Anna: i gotta say, i thought backpack Kayne was p cute back when his first albums came out
Mike: well yeah he is a cutie pie
also the SCREAMING again
and the abrupt pauses/silences
Anna: this is my fave verse by far, "i just talked to Jesus"
that's the verse that makes the conceit make sense for me
"he said, what up Yeezus" just doesn't stop being funny
Mike: that makes a lot of sense
this is the part i always turn up
when the kick comes back in
there is something really inherently funny about kanye/jesus just hanging
like oh yeah we play golf together
also ok big thing i like about this album is the attention paid to each sound like everything is PERFECT
most of the time spent working was on the music, not the words
really clear, tbqh
and the line about picking the cotton himself
time to nerd out get ready
one of the biggest jobs fashion designers have IS picking fabric, it's generally done months and months before anything else and determines the basics for the entire collection
and when he says that it's a really powerful line but it's also
'this is why i hired other people to do my collections'
Anna: the ending sample is rich as fuck, i love walls of sound
Mike: and YES
it sounds like
he's four tracks in and doing a victory lap
Anna: i was thinking more giant complicated sculpture in an empty gallery
Mike: the way it goes into it always reminds me of like
breaking the tape at the finish line with your arms in the air
also this album sounds like rick owens' apartment looks
last picture especially
Anna: just add like one orange sofa pillow amirite
i mean, Ye loves sofas
Mike: but you see what i'm saying like it's HUGE but everything was chosen w/care
and it's minimal in a way that isn't.. actually.. minimal
like it's a pointless amount of space and everything is expensive that's not minimalism
but it is pretty close to yeezus
also w/o kanye i would never have given justin vernon a chance
Anna: i don't understand why he's still on the autotune vibes
Mike: he can't sing
autotune both fixes that
and lets him add emotional affect
Anna: it's the one thing that already sounds dated about this album
he doesn't have to sing, that's what justin is there for
Mike: that sounds sort of ridiculous but even going back to 808 properly engineered autotune can make shit sound HEARTBREAKING
to me at least
i would argue at this point we are past the idea of autotune being dated
jay-z released a song, called death of autotune
in 2009
Anna: autotune always ruins it for me
it just sounds like a gimmick
which is arbitrary because i'm all about recording through telephones and shit
Mike: so does fuzz, delay, gated reverb, blah blah blah
i would argue in this case it's not an attempt to cash in
it's a conscious choice
you don't like it because pop music does it, be honest
>:]
Anna: it's aesthetically unappealing
as is most pop music
Mike: to... you
Anna: to me
exactly
Mike: yeah
i LIKE it
like i remember hearing 'believe' by cher on the radio as a kid
and freaking OUT
like how do voices sound like that why does it sound so good
also hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaha this starting verse
if we're talking dated
that REGGAE AIRHORN
i love it tho
Anna: in this song and in New Slaves
i am more than interested in to listen to kanye talk about racism, the prison industrial complex, it's serious and i think his opinion is worthwhile
but it's represented through or alongside disrespectful and misogynistic images
Mike: i can't take it seriously, even a little bit
i don't mind, it's just straight up absurd
Anna: i want to take it seriously but i have the distinct impression i'm not his intended audience
Mike: also this song makes sex sound like the end of the world
which... obviously... appeals to me
pop a wheelie on the zeitgeist
Anna: my main thought about this song and the one before it is "wow glad i'm not in this relationship"
Mike: and the tron reference
and then swaghili like
how are you supposed to take any of that seriously
it's just like gotta be harsh and abrasive here gotta say something ridiculous here
Anna: borrowing words from African languages is a classic black power thing
that's what i figured swaghili was about
Mike: could also argue (about blood on the leaves) that the autotune is deliberately intended to make you remember 808s
did you ever listen to that
Anna: used to overhear it when my roommates played it
realizing the autotune doesn't bother me nearly as much here
somehow it fits into the production better
also it's just impossible to fuck up Nina Simone's voice
Mike: the big thing for me is... kanye would never have hit those notes on his own
and it fits with the fucked up vocal samples
and nina's over there like what UP i'm textural contrast
Anna: really like the image of running naked in the hotel lobby
Mike: this part
kanye = more scared of babies than.. everyone
going back to gold digger at LEAST
Anna: 18 years
ayup
hey maybe we'd be perfect for each other
Mike: he's always seemed like he'd be really sweet
deep down
Anna: u projecting bro
Mike: i mean obviously this is also me imagining waking up before him and making him breakfast
Anna: so if he's so scared of babies why does he have one now!?
Mike: also covered in that bbc interview
kim's got her own money
which is a big deal for him
also this is probably my favorite production on the album here (guilt trip)
Anna: i wonder if that's crucial to his relationship stability, or if he’s going to realize that there are things more important than money
Mike: it's not that so much as
when you're that rich
how sure can you be that she isn't sleeping with you because you're rich
Anna: bc faith/trust/other things more important than money
Mike: nba players esp. are famous for being like.. followed around by beautiful women in the hope that the nba dude will knock one of them up and then be on the hook for child support
seems likely he's been in similar situations before
and is very worried about feigned affection due to income
Anna: but that's a huge insecurity to be entering into relationships with
so maybe he cleverly found a way around it, or maybe he's treating the symptom
Mike: i think if i was in the same situation i'd have the same worry and do the same thing
Anna: anyway i see why you like this production
v non-minimal minimalist
Mike: yeah
everything is HUGE
when you think of minimal music it's like matthew herbert or villalobos or etc.
this is more like
there's a part in one of the later 2001 books
where the black monoliths start multiplying and cover a planet's surface
i like 'dropped out first day of school'
Anna: in total opposition to my feelings about everything else, "both sucked like they came to lose" cracks me up
i guess because it's that joke structure like "lie like a rug" where it's as much a bad pun as an innuendo
oh also this
Mike: OH MAN AND THIS FIRST LINE
since in the club
Anna: and “park they ass outside” cracks me UP
Mike: and 'yeezus just rose again' is the best thing
like... really hard to not think that when erecting
Anna: ...
so glad i'm not a man
Mike: OH MAN AND THEN THIS
Anna: anyway so the first thing i read about this album was about this song as the story of kim and kayne
so it never struck me as too unusual
the other weekend my roommates made me watch this video because they thought it was so absurd and stupid
and i was like
this is enjoyable
it's a song about kim
what do you expect
Mike: i had this whole thing written about how this is like... willfully calling back to the start of his rise to fame
the sped up soul sample and then 'uh huh honey' like 'i know i did this already'
it's also
if you're at all familiar with nick knight's photography
like it's a photo by him but it's moving
VERY similar
Anna: also it's really really REALLY clearly ironic
and they didn’t get that
they seriously think ye is taking himself seriously
Mike: and i like the video because kanye's face is always either half-lit or not lit up at all and kim's is on some straight up photo shoot girl has to look amazing shit
like oh this is how he sees him
this is how he sees her
Anna: [link]
Mike: was thinking of bergman but it's all coming from the same place
which is probably tintoretto and... not bergman
big bergman trick is like
full-frame shot of face = intimacy, vulnerability, beauty
profile shot/face shaded = SOMETHING'S GOING on
also oh man
i'm tired
you're tired
jesus wept
:):):):):):):):):)
Anna: anyway i got in a pretty fierce debate about the video/defended him
wish you'd been there
they just did not see/refused to see the humor and intention
he's saying "straight out the salon bitch" and rubbing his shaved head
that's funny
it's supposed to be funny
Mike: i have no patience for talk about kanye any more
if i hear one more 'love the music, hate the person' speech
i mean
people who think he's serious are just calling him an idiot, basically
not only did he put a song called 'i am a god' on the album
it's listed as 'i am a god (feat. god)'
if you can't realize that was placed there with tongue superglued inside cheek
all i have for u are eyerolls
Anna: on the bright side, you can't really argue against it without sounding like a racist asshole
making it much easier to choose friends
wish i remembered more of what the arguments were specifically but i just got so frustrated that i referenced that Basquiat video where he says, "like an ape? a primate?" and walked away basically
Mike: ughhhhhh
yeah the dude couldn't have intended that
must have been his savage nature
~eyes everywhere roll upwards, heavenwards~
Anna: [fig. 1] / [fig. 2]
people will try to argue with me on kayne being a serious appreciator of modern art
these people are wrong
and i know more about modern art than they do
Mike: don't doubt it
Anna: this kind of ties into a whole other thread in Basquiat studies where the traditional musical tie-in is to associate him with jazz
because he depicts Charlie Parker and so on
but historically/contextually it makes more sense to associate him with hip-hop
and i suspect Kanye would agree
Mike: not to mention like... the sheer amount of jazz samples used IN hip-hop
that probably has nothing to do with anything though
Anna: it does if you consider Basquiat and graffiti-style painting to be visual sampling
basquiat is full of recontextualized visual references
Mike: i like all this shit i don't know, keep going if you'd like
Anna: i tweeted about this a whole bunch one time, i'd have to find it
there's an earlier Kanye song where he mentions Basquiat specifically
and i believe he's known to have purchased some of his work
Mike: yep
I paid for them titties, get your own
It ain't safe in the city, watch the throne
She say I care more about them basquions
Basquiats, she learning a new word, it's yacht
Anna: so i'm well-known to be ignorant of hip hop
but this is when i feel like Kanye's speaking my language
like hey if we ever met we could at least hang out at MoMA and have plenty to talk about
Mike: i like it a lot, i like his willingness to take inspiration from relatively unconventional places
like idk if you knew this but
black skinhead/i am a god are both about him getting very, very angry at hedi slimane/saint laurent
the two angriest songs on the album are his reaction to hedi telling him he could come to the first saint laurent show at paris fashion week if he promised to not attend any other shows
that was kind of an abrupt transition on my part btw i just think that's like.. a very kanye moment
Anna: i should explain Obnoxious Liberals more i guess
Basquiat painted it after his work was selling for a quite a bit, and reselling for even more, so the white art-world people who bought it were then getting even wealthier reselling his work without him seeing any of those profits
and he was relentlessly touted as some kind of self-taught "savage"/"primitive" in a way that totally dismissed his elaborate and articulate ideas about things/representations of them
so 'obnoxious liberals' are the people who are buying the painting and 'not for sale' is how basquiat feels about his image and his work and his integrity
but he's selling it nonetheless because that's the way society's given him to succeed
Mike: kanye has very, very similar feelings, as i remember
and not to bring high fashion back into this but there's a lot of demographic overlap with the art world and kanye's interest in it/attempts to work within it have.. not been responded to very positively
so that same glass ceiling bullshit
and also the fact that the people making the real money are... not kanye west
Anna: you said something about unconventional sources of inspiration but in context i don't think it's unconventional at all
Mike: ok i am about to talk out of my ass
but hip-hop has traditionally almost entirely been sampled from/based on black music
and one of kanye's biggest moves as a producer has been going from like... sped up nina simone samples on his earliest work
to daft punk/king crimson/gary glitter
willfully using music that he's not expected to use and putting it in a wholly different context
like to name a genre of music with a more predominantly white/nerdy fanbase than prog rock you will probably have to make that genre up
and then you look at like asap rocky now, and the dude won't shut up about high fashion
but kanye was front row in paris WAY before rocky was even a deal
and going back to his earliest stuff there's been an obsession with brands that are not traditionally associated w/rap
louis vuitton, etc.
like he's doing a collection with APC this year
Anna: aha i told you about my game which is trying to figure out which fashion brands do not get rapped about?
things that are hard to say, like Proenza Schouler
or things that are excessively girly, like Pucci/Rodarte
Mike: i'm so happy rap has discovered givenchy
walter van beirendonck
miu miu needs to get used
i'm not even kidding it's straight begging for it
Anna: anyway
what you were saying about kayne i think
is that he's super smart and has killer taste
and he puts plenty of other artists to shame for having comparable time/resources and not being into a quarter as much edgy contemporary shit as he is
Mike: yes
Anna: definitely a rich man's game but he's really good at it
Mike: i'd disagree in the sense that like... his collections were gross
not in a glass ceiling i'm hating on the dude way
in a like
poorly fitting, poorly designed, 12 different types of fur way
dude has limits
that weird period where he wanted to be an architect
and that's something i've been getting really into and architecture is like... hilariously absurdly rigorous
the interest is there but i think he thinks the skill is there too
Anna: still want to figure out what the Le Corbusier lamp was
mostly because it's an art question about music and those are my favorite
Mike: oh my god anna you can google it
Anna: no, he never said which lamp it was!
Mike: it has to be one of like.. three
and i don't think it matters which one exactly
Anna: it matters if you can write interesting critical commentary on it
Mike: except that should not happen in this world, there are enough words already
Anna: stick to computer science
i could easily imagine writing a full-length paper on Kanye and Basquiat
Mike: i couldn't, at all
it's possible but it's also possible to say the same thing much more simply/casually
i am so, so over people looking at ANYTHING and thinking
this merits serious, in depth analysis, which the rest of the world should hear about
there is something really gross and egoistical about interpreting things like that and i'd rather just appreciate it
it = everything
Anna: ok ok i understand, it's late you're grumpy
Mike: no! this is a big thing i've been thinking about for a long time
the ethics of interpretation
when it's ok and when it isn't
the difference between imposing your own meaning and doing your best to figure out the artist's
and how weird and grey-area-y it all is, go figure
Anna: are you sure that's when it's ok vs. when it isn't as opposed to when it's well done vs. when it isn't
Mike: you can write a very well done marxist reading of gilgamesh, doesn't make it worthwhile it just makes you good at fitting things over other things
Anna: there are interpretations that are never going to make sense to attempt
but there are also interpretations that sound bizarre and stupid on the surface but are incredibly rewarding when you look at them more closely
Mike: the important thing is to learn to look closely, then
and i'd rather do that and see for myself than let other people do it
Anna: i don't think Kayne and Basquiat is a bad set-up at all though, it is a perfectly sensible comparison to me
you could do it badly, of course, if you make the same mistakes that both of their critics have made or if you get ahistorical and claim that Basquiat was somehow prefiguring Kayne's ideas
but that would just mean that you're writing bad criticism
Mike: yeah, and i'm definitely just burnt out on reading anything about yeezus
like i don't care
i'm doing this because i know nobody's going to read it and i just like talking about music
the best part about the album is the focus on these incredibly visceral words/sounds
and i'd rather be provoked than read about being provoked
Anna: interpretation isn't supposed to stand in for your direct experience/enjoyment/hatred of the original work, but it should help you to understand and relate to it
Mike: i am not immortal
i have 80-120 years
i would rather experience
Anna: sometimes i'm not sure i've experienced it until i've written about it
Mike: i have so many memories that are just me experiencing music in a way that feels better than anything else feels to me
like actual out-of-body experiences
and the shivers and the tingling and so on
Anna: well i get that way about Sweet Jane
Mike: i get that way.. less and less as i get older but it keeps happening and it makes me so happy
and i think the less and less is, if it's anything, my thoughts standing in the way of experience
so i'm sort of wary of the whole 'i like this, i should really think hard about it' thing
Anna: fwiw, i think Basquiat is too
Mike: that's the biggest thing is that music is the thing i experience the most intensely and it's about the only time i feel like i'm a part of something larger than myself
and i don't want to ruin that
like when i sing songs i've written or i sing other songs i really like
i barely feel in control of it, though i guess i am
Anna: well, hilariously, the Spin article openly lamented it not being a Lana Del Rey cover
Mike: that's GOOD
i was about to say like
would rather hear some LDR
Anna: no one appreciates what King Khan's trying to do
Mike: gacy said the same thing man
Anna: he packed a lot into this and he wants you to unpack and enjoy it on multiple levels
Mike: does he really
please please please keep going
Anna: it's sort of bookish and nerdy which is an interesting approach for garage pop
Mike: i mean he's getting real close to 40
gotta grow up somehow
Anna: yeah and he's still doin his thing, i respect that!
so i'm looking at the one-sheet from Merge where he explains all the songs
"'Born to Die' is an apocalyptic ode to the heinous war machine that to this day ruins our lives."
"'Bite My Tongue' is about the unsung heroes who are forced to live in utter poverty but who have made all the revolutions possible and are being silenced as you read this."
Mike:
Let me strip my head
Numb it out into a sacred layer
There's the living jail
With the ashes of my own hair
Talk about angel loss
Mystics told his soul is fully gloved
Well, here we go
The only hope that's left is in our home
^ until the last line it reads like poetry a grad student is too afraid to show his friends
dunno where he's going with that
don't see anything abt an apocalyptic war machine or whatever
and i thought bite my tongue was just a cute song
Anna: i guess that kind of invokes self-immolation for me
like monks during the Vietnam War
one of their album titles/their tagline is "the Supreme Genius of King Khan and the Shrines"
and the title "supreme genius" is a Buddhist-sounding thing
Mike: what's this one about
let's try and get through it like sophisticated explicators
Anna: "'Thorn in her Pride is a girl-power anthem and a celebration of the goddesses who help raise the children of the revolution.”
Mike: you heard that lou reed shout out right
liked that part ok
Anna: it's good because it's subversive
i did a total double take the first time i heard that
how many musicians have ripped off "and all the colored girls sing"
how many of them were musicians of color
Mike: gonna have to put me down for 'don't care' on that one i think
see where you're coming from though
Anna: "'Luckiest Man' is about me and how lucky I was to receive the proper mental care I needed during a very steep and lengthy plummet into madness"
Mike: awwwwww
Anna: so don't try to tell me you can't relate
Mike: that's uh
i actually think about how lucky i am a lot
like that's a thing that comes up a lot when i'm alone
Anna: feel you
haven't even mentioned the best part about the first 5 songs: they all are JAMS
they are jammin' out as hard as they know how, five songs straight
a lot of albums have that track #2-#4 vibe
KK is tracks #1-#5
Mike: this is true but like have you heard james brown live
like if you're going to place yourself within the whole soul/funk music deal
you're going up against like
Anna: that's the one problem
a lot of my enjoyment of this album is based on what i have to listen to at work
which is Otis Redding, Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Little Richard, the Marvelettes
Mike: yeah
Anna: and King Khan can
but he can't that hard
Mike: JAMES BROWN
Anna: JAMES BROWN
JAMES BROWN
JAMES
BROWN
Mike: YOOOOOOO
he's still the godfather of soul, yall
Anna: i always hear his name like they say it in Stop Making Sense
ALWAYS
oh my god
you know exactly what i was doing
Mike: where else would you be going w/that
i was going to say though that this is like ok for a moderate twist or something but i'm always going to compare something like this to james brown and james brown is like
Anna: god level
Mike: yeah like he can't get up there
which is fine
Anna: I love the screams in King Khan songs like Land of the Freak
but he can't scream like Little Richard can scream
Mike: watched a bit of king khan live and i feel like
there's energy and there's more energy than is usual for acts playing the places he plays?
but it's not That Impressive
Anna: FYI: "'Better Luck Next Time' is velvety pop to soothe the ears."
which i can appreciate
label told you you had to have a single
you wrote a song to fit the bill
sounds good here, it's pretty climax-oriented
and then
"'Darkness' is about the ugly beasts that must be tamed inside of us all. It was also my attempt to do something as real as Nina Simone."
Mike: i _LIKE_ this one
Anna: it's GOOD
it is really, really arresting for a slow song
Mike: but again like
putting yourself in the nina simone category
who is again one of those singular people
good, though
Anna: but i ask you
who else is still trying to do that
everything we've mentioned is really, really, really good music
and probably some of the most emotionally compelling
why aren't more people trying to recreate it
Mike: because going backwards is stupid
because when we talk about james brown/nina simone we're talking about people who are about as good as one can humanly be at doing what they do
and it's a very bad idea to step into the ring w/them or their idealized ghosts
Anna: catch this Grease reference
we're talking about 60s-70s mostly but one of the nice things he can do is pull from the 50s at the same time
buncha of rockabilly, like the opening of this song
"'Pray for Lil' is an ode to my wife, who continually saves my life and makes me a complete human being, human doing, and human going."
and it's #1 on the B side
which is cute
like
your other half
awwwww
Mike: that is hella adorable
would not call this rockabilly but see where you are coming from
it is a bit earlier
the tiny little bells/chimes make me think of early 60s girl groupy things
Anna: Marvelettes all day
Supremes/Shirelles
I've read some very bad academic material about 60s girl girls
but I agree it is very important
Mike: ugh this song
sometimes i sing along and sometimes i'm just like wow this might be the dumbest thing
Anna: "'Bad Boy' is a requiem for Bobby Ubangi, who was and is still Atlanta's Finest."
that's sad, hadn't read about him until now
Mike: “B Jay was a founding member of Carbonas before he got kicked out because he didn't like to practice.”
i like him
i like his attitude
r.i.p. buddy
Anna: Atlanta scene isn't something I follow closely but obviously you have to mention the Black Lips at some point during this
I dig 'em a lot which is the other part of my appreciation for this album
Mike: never even been interested
are they like the black keys
The last really good slow dance I've had with a man was with BJ at Jack and Julie's party a few years ago. Half-way through I remembered that I was old and he was young and I got a little creeped out. He was one of my daughter's good friends..., and sometimes a pain in the ass. She's lost too many good friends. I'm glad she had him in her life for awhile and I'm glad he danced with me. D.Klein
i want that when i die
damn
Anna: you'll get "sometimes a pain in the ass" at least i promise
"'So Wild' is a double requiem for the two other Jays I have lost over the last few years, Jay Reatard and Jay 'Berserker' Montour. RIP."
Mike: i dunno a lot of my issue with this album is that i'm like totally isolated from any of its context
like jay reatard
never cared in the least
Anna: i'm one degree of separation from Jay Reatard now did i tell you
Mike: no what
Anna: friends w/ someone who met him
like an Erdos number
Mike: lolllllllll
ex knew frances bean
which makes me 2 away from kurt's ghost
if i calculate correctly
Anna: "'Yes I Can't' is a little ironic number named after Obama's attempt at changing the police state"
jam!!
Mike: reminds me a little of 'you belong to me' by elvis costello
and TURN THE TV OFF AND LET'S MAKE ~LOVE~ INSTEAD
Anna: I think it's just as much a play on Yes We Can Can
maybe just because Nick Spitzer talked about it on American Routes last week
Mike: yes ok fine with that
Anna: also because
sort of how going to Scotland vastly increased my appreciation for bagpipes
living here has vastly increased my appreciation for brass bands
that song is fun
this song is... different
"'I Got Made' is a Joe Pesci trip heavily inspired by the Costa Nostra."
Mike: hahahahahaha
makes sense
could see him singing this in goodfellas musical
Anna: considering what else this album is about
i feel like the movie tie-in is just a way of covering singing about real shit
Mike: yeah no
Anna: did you look up Idle No More at all
Mike: purple links say YES
but not as much as you did
Anna: it's the sovereignty/environmental rights movement by First Nations people in Canada and indigenous people internationally
which is interesting because it was spurred by various technical and land disputes with waterway rights and oil pipelines
but took on this nationalist/indiginist character that's not limited to economic or administrative issues
so
"'Of Madness I Dream' is a mirror image of what is happening to the world as we speak.
"Originally, I was going to call the album Of Madness I Dream, but then I became very enthused about the amazing work of the Idle no More movement. ... I contacted the leaders of the movement and, with their permission, decided to rename the album Idle No More in hopes it would increase the world's awareness of this miracle that is taking place for the indigenous peoples of the world."
Mike: good on him
Anna: respect
this album lifts a lot of the music that was happening during of 70s Black Nationalism
it wouldn't mean as much if it weren't aligned with a similar social movement
Mike: yeah but um james brown in zaire
Anna: we can't all be James Brown
Mike: well yeah but we could try a little harder
Anna: jesus that man can do the splits
Mike: he's the best dude
the speech
'i can't play the best of james brown.... the best of james brown... is yet to come'
-james brown
Anna: what does GFOS stand for
Mike: God Father Of Soul
(y'all)
Anna: OHH
but
bedazzled
Mike: 1974
Anna: "put out the lights, and put on some more blackness"
there's nothing wrong with wanting to be this
if the 60s/70s were cool right now instead of the 80s/90s King Khan would be the dopest shit
and that's fucking arbitrary
because there is still lots of valid social justice to sing about
Mike: i dunno though like part of the appeal of something like spiritualized is that he knows he can't approach the things he adores, so he does his own thing
also
60s/70s aren't cool
is it just me or do people just keep rehashing both of those things
Anna: why/how do you not like it
you love actual James Brown and Fleetwood Mac
but you can't get behind anyone else who does
Mike: that's a lie
i can't get behind people who feel comfortable doing that again
rather than doing something that's closer to being a product of their time
rather than doing something new
like ok
d'angelo
voodoo
dude spent years immersing himself in the history of black music
and then he made something that doesn't sound quite like any of it, something that sounds like him
that's cool as hell, that seems like the goal to have
not, oh this sounds like something from before i was born but lamer
and i switched the words around
Anna: you don't think you could say the same thing about King Khan?
he sounds just like himself to me
Mike: well that's why i like that darkness song
that one's good
but no none of it really seems different enough from what came before him
i'm not really interested in hearing the same forms used to address different things
though i guess you like that
it sounds like a pastiche
that's not impressive, anna
nothing about it feels especially new or different or interesting
it doesn't catch my ear
that's basically it
he's not much of a singer, he's not much of a writer, and he's doing something that's been done
sha na na played woodstock
the appetite for having the past cleaned off and presented again is always there
not my bag
it's a nothing album
it wants to be like a lot of big wonderful things and it isn't
it's not even bad in an interesting way
it's competent
and the gap between its influences and what it is
that's depressing
Anna: i feel like you can't hear what i hear
Mike: you're like borderline tonedeaf anna, that seems unlikely
Anna: you're being borderline nasty about it
Mike: there is definitely context i am just not getting because i don't like any of this sha na nonsense
but i'm pretty sure we're hearing the same thing
Anna: i feel like you're trying to ruin it for me
Mike: the big thing is just that when i hear it i never actually end up wanting to hear it again
i just want to listen to something i know that it reminds me of
and honestly this is something we tend to disagree on a LOT just in general
figured we'd get something out of it if we wrote about it
Anna: what is it exactly that we disagree on
Mike: the extent to which it is acceptable to rip off the past, i guess
like you can handle foxygen and i can't do that at all
i can't really quite figure out what about it grates on me and doesn't on you
Anna: you... don't like garage rock?
Mike: i do, though
sometimes
i really enjoy the exploding hearts and i get a huge kick out of listening to nuggets actually
Anna: you don't automatically sympathize with an album with a social justice message?
Mike: not really a lyrics dude
so no
and in general i dislike it when a dude's like
i like music
you know what the world needs
my feelings re: politics
Anna: it's more political than his other albums but it's hardly as if you can hear politics in it
that’s one of its strengths
Mike: that part i'm ok with
not hearing politics
Anna: it isn't a once in a lifetime album
it’s an album that's different than a lot of what's happening now and is sincere about it
Mike: that would be ok if i wasn't so picky
but there's more music in existence than i'd hear if i listened nonstop until i die
Anna: that's what grandiose is though it's lots and lots and lots
my dim memory of seeing him play is just that the sound was huuuuge
Mike: i think the big deal for me with this album is that it's these very personal feelings on the most massive fucking sonic stage possible
working through my interpersonal issues in abbey road with sixty other musicians at my beck and call
Anna: is that where was this recorded
Mike: it was recorded at a bunch of places
not actually abbey road but something to note about this album is that it literally sounds like his label gave him a blank check and told him to go apeshit
Anna: just interesting that's what you said considering we're listening to "Come Together"
definitely had a mentality of Spiritualized being a "quiet" band until i really listened to this
but so good at noise
like i just dipped out of that show that was just loud and incessant
and this is loud and incessant and awesome
Mike: the come together starts sounding like a joke when you hear the other lyrics
Little j's a fucked up boy
Who doled the pain but killed the joy
And little j’s a fucking mess
But when he's offered just says yes
Little j is sad and fucked
First he jumped and then he looked
The tracks of time those tracks of mine
Little j is occupied
very much about ONE person
and then he's telling everyone to come together but i think that's just to celebrate how fucked he is
Anna: one person whose initial is j
quelle conicidence
Mike: lollllllll
perceptive
'loud and incessant and awesome' is such a good way to put the loud songs on this album into words
we're up to 'i think i'm in love' now
Anna: it's the cry of someone who's going through a lot of shit
i keep thinking of you coming down while listening to it
there's a head trip i don't want to take
and yesss we are
Mike: one of the weirdest things about this album is that a bunch of it was done w/loops and you can REALLY hear that on this song specifically
like there's always one or two things changing and a bunch of static patterns going on
Anna: i was thinking about how it's so compelling because it's these electronic renderings of organic and analog textures
with the static
and how that one prominent loop sounds like a hand-crank siren the way it goes in and out
Mike: yeah
and then how everything goes away and then comes back
Anna: and now the snake charmer part
Mike: YES exactly
Anna: there's soooo much going on and there's like, major phrases that don't occur until 4:00
Mike: yeah that's i think one of my favorite things about this song
you can focus in on just one thing and have fun and then you understand how it all fits together and it's scary how well it works
Anna: right when you're comfortable the lyrics take over and get all clever
Mike: i love his lyrics
Anna: i was going to ask how you this and don't tame impala but maybe that’s the edge?
Mike: tame impala is like smoking a spliff with the bros
this is your tenth cigarette and the sun's rising and you're so very cold
but no i dunno he uses very simple words and talks about very simple sentiments but i've never heard anyone else say things quite the same way
Anna: really dig how he switches into "all the ladies now" callback for the last line
infatuation as a form of self-punishment
Mike: see why i like it so much
the other thing is that his last lines are generally the ones that sting the absolute most
I think that I could be your man
Probably just think you can
oof
it's the difference between who you think you are and who you are
which has been an issue, for me, before
and then this song
i think my favorite part about this song is that i always get surprised when it really kicks off
Anna: it's a lurker
Mike: the harmonica holy shit
Anna: it sounds like an organ
Mike: no no there's a harmonica right before the organ kicks back in
Anna: OH and it's fucking losing its shit
Mike: YEAH
one of the sort of quiet things about spiritualized is the massive debt he owes to very old rock n' roll/soul music
the elvis part in the first song is a hint but also like
the backup singers, the harmonica, the horn section
Anna: funky horns in I Think I’m In Love
Mike: exactly
like you have all of these very spacey shoegazey things and then you have these very concrete traditional things all at once
the horns in this are great too, though in a very very druggy how did you come up with this way
Anna: in French service dining all of the full-size dishes arrive on the table at the same time
everything at once because it's most impressive that way
Mike: whoah yeah that is a really good way to put it
Anna: that was one of the things i got to talk about when i was a historic house tour guide
Mike: hell of a job
Anna: it was neat
so Stay With Me
Mike: there's a guitar doubling the bass line and it sounds very motown to me but i can't quite figure out where to place it
i know i've heard very similar things
the other sort of fun thing about all of these songs is that if you strip them all the way down they're using really bone-simple chords/melodies
beauty is in the arrangements
Anna: this is the one that reminded me of old Raveonettes which means it is definitely ripped off something much older than that
Mike: i'm too far away from that stuff now to really remember
i KNOW i've heard the same trick before somewhere and i can't quite remember
hate this
and then the feedback shows up for a little bit and then it's just this massive wash of distortion
Anna: had to ban myself from using "wash" and "washy" to describe feedback and synth effect
Mike: i mean in this case
there's stuff going on in the background that's like
straight out of the loveless playbook
can barely hear the attack of the note you just hear this continuous hum
Anna: i think the other thing that reminds me of the Raveonettes besides ripping off 50s rock is how he's made it the most basic possible lyrical idea ever
Mike: oh my yes
Anna: like an actual 50s song would at least have an attempt at verses
Mike: i thought [electricity] would be your favorite song on the album
Anna: ahahaha
i was convinced that when this album was new to college radio, it came with a sticker pushing Electricity as the #1 focus track
so convinced that i looked it up
check it out
first song mentioned on the sticker
Mike: it would have to be
this song SLAMS
Anna: it has 90s College Radio written alllllllllll over it
ike: the organ during the refrain sounds so so so close to 'i'm a believer' by the monkees
it's sort of hidden back there
Anna: !!!!!!! it so does
this is how really good oasis songs make me feel too
don't know about you
Mike: oasis makes me want to sing along this makes me want to like steal a really fast car
Anna: gtav bb
also like how it starts out with each instrument warming up, like they're just "going electric" for the first time
Mike: after this take they were like hey wow these amplifiers are pretty cool huh guys
and then this transition
holy fuck
see what i was saying
number one comedown album
Anna: was reading about how this album doesn't work on vinyl at all
because you lose this completely when you have to flip the record
Mike: yeah that's another really cool thing about it
Anna: breakfast off of a mirror
there are more drug references every time i listen
Mike: there aren't a lot of albums built around the idea of 70-80 minutes of continuous cohesive music
the 'cd era'
we have all this space let's fill it
Anna: yeah how nuts is it that bands are stilling building albums for vinyl
i guess the rise of the EP in the Bandcamp era is a thing
Mike: in 'how music works' david byrne writes about how he can't imagine 2-3 minutes not being about the minimum length of a song
but he can't tell whether that's nature or nurture
Anna: so why is this called Home of the Brave
Mike: mystery to me
it's the second half of 'land of the free/home of the brave'
like i guess you could argue that it's because this is an album that is very much about one person doing very stupid things
Anna: "home of the brave" is the line of the national anthem that gives me involuntary chills usually
Mike: yeah
i start up when i hear 'oh say does that star spangled'
but that's anticipation i guess
Anna: [The Individual] is the tweaking out song
because after this there's Broken Heart and then it just gets really warm and afterglow-y
Mike: the way i see it is that it's been going soft-loud
but the length of each period has gradually been getting longer?
like since 'all of my thoughts'
also i am pretty sure it does not actually just get warm/afterglowy anna
though 'broken heart' is
oof
Anna: do we have to talk about it it's too sad
Mike: well i told you i couldn't figure out why i was listening to this album so much post-breakup
and then one day i'm up too late and i finally hear these words
Anna: wow you were really backgrounding hard
Mike: i told you, i don't normally hear words
that takes a while
but this is just like
it's so direct and it fits so perfectly with the rest of the song
and his voice sounds like he just wants to fall asleep but he can't
Anna: i think insomnia is the operative mode of the album
you feel like he's singing long after he is because it's so well-matched
Mike: one of the coolest things about his voice is that it does sort of tail off and blend right into everything else that's happening
and also this is a SUPER long outro but it feels merited, somehow
like we all need to rest for a little bit
and then as i remember the very last noisy song
well
cop shoot cop
but the last ONLY noisy song
this one [no god, only religion]
Anna: what's not warm about this
Mike: holy fuck this sounds like the end of the world
there are these really weird high sounds that keep me very disoriented
the horns feel 'off' somehow
like harmony but not nice harmony
Anna: it reminds me of something kind of Eastern European
like a traveling circus marching band
not at all a bad thing
Mike: also the guitar that sort of weaves in and out
and then you have the rhythm instruments just going absolutely apeshit
moment to point out that the bass playing on this album is like the Key Ingredient
lots like the arcade fire in that there are a thousand things going on but it's all anchored by the bass
which is relatively prominent
see: 'rebellion (lies)'
yeah no these horns are like willfully dissonant and doing this sort of chromatic descending thing
while the bass is playing the same thing over and over again
so they're going in and out of harmony with each other
Anna: that was always my fave AF song
idk i can't help but see it in a positive light
maybe it's the church bells
feels like it's "no god only religion" and the next song is "and the religion is love"
Mike: that's fair
it's also just
hearing this song emerge from that song
is incredible i think
Anna: oh yeah
this song is baptism
it's not just about baptism it IS
Mike: no i thought the cool waves were like sound waves
Anna: what
Mike: JOKING
Anna: OKAY
Mike: come on
Anna: sorry it is very rarely i get to use my religious background towards appreciating anything
Mike: they are called spiritualized, u know
might occasionally be relevant
but yeah this song is just
he is rocking me to sleep
and the FLUTE i know i've heard that somewhere before
there's an air song with a flute just like it but that's not the same thing
might be what i'm thinking of though
Anna: the little jazz piano thing that turns into piccolo is the funniest
oh oops i'm behind you
Mike: oh it's all good
also yeah definitely a piccolo
sorry, hate wind instruments and occasionally mix them up
also has there ever been a song more deserving of a fade out
like it's just still going somewhere
and then this
ooof
Anna: this
missed the reference on that first line like a total naif my first couple times
Mike: jesus i just looked it up
i should know it because it's also been on a pink floyd album
but the final cut doesn't really count so much
also 'i believe i have been reborn'
he just got baptized remember
Anna: there's another thing about this album, he doesn't just have one habit, he's got em all at once
Mike: well it's not really about the drugs so much as the absence induced by those drugs i think
which i understand
less about the pleasure of the thing more about just taking a break from the world
which is btw sort of the point of this whole middle section i think
Anna: and then it goes all sister ray
he stops like 13 seconds short of full sister ray though
Mike: like if you're listening to this in the right frame of mind it blots out everything else in sight
man since we are sort of getting to the end
can i just say how stoked i am on how this album subtly/obviously references everything under the sun and still manages to sound exactly like itself
Anna: if you read the wikipedia entry it categorizes it as "space rock" and that is so colossally unfair
Mike: i don't really deal w/genres anyway
which is nice because what the fuck do you file this under
it needs its own special little drawer
oh fun fact while we're still listening to noise
there's a special edition of this where each song is on an individual cd inside a blister pack
which is so clever and so bleak all at once
Anna: like you said, huge amount of torment
wouldn't it be nice to just take a pill
Mike: ooof yeah
and we're gradually drifting back to normality rn
Anna: can you imagine if it just quit in the middle of all the noise
people would get withdrawal just hearing it
Mike: funny thing about that is normally when i listen to this i'll finish the whole thing and put it right back on
Anna: the best ones
Mike: beat out ok computer in the nme's year-end poll
which is just weird to think about like
Anna: imagine if this album had the reach/influence of Ok Computer?
the world would be a better place
Mike: yeah
though i am NOT knocking ok computer
what an album
might listen to that now actually
also does your copy of this end with just silence for like 45 seconds
Anna: it's to bring the length up to the full 70 minutes for "1 tablet 70 minutes"
he thought it would bother people if the cover said 70 minutes but it was really 69:13 or whatever
he was thinking of you, mike
Mike: you can actually hear me complaining about that i bet
if you try and imagine it
Anna: clearly
Mike: going full seinfeld
like 'me i would round down and make it sixty-nine minutes but NO'
...
Mike: did you have anything else you wanted to say about the album
just go through everything you missed/maybe wanted to say and zzz after
Anna: just always going to associate it with you and now i like it more so thanks
hope i never need it but i know it's there for me
Mike: it's about some very real very sad scary things
i just remembered
that one of the places this came up when i was searching about it was on a subreddit (lol) dedicated to opiates
and it was like 'best albums to nod off to?'
guess what was number one
Anna: eery level of self-awareness there
Mike: that's one of the weirdest things i've noticed about opiates in the modern age
everyone who's not an absolute idiot KNOWS it will either kill you or induce anhedonia
which means they're going in willfully or they just think they're the ones who will get away
was reading 'please kill me' and i think either tom verlaine or richard lloyd was talking about how you'd just stop doing heroin for a couple weeks every once in a while so you wouldn't get addicted
and also exactly how stupid that is
Anna: people are freaking great at bad decisions?
Mike: i mean the other side of the coin is that opiates are basically the Best Thing
according to friends
so i dunno it's just like taking out a loan on your future happiness/well-being
Anna: generally I feel a lot of entrance/interlude tracks are self-indulgent wastes of space, but this is so overtly “nature recordings for meditation” I can't help but get behind it
you need something to get you into how magical "It All Feels Right" is going to be
hang on here we go with the percussion
wedding quartet on a beach or something
Mike: yeah i've always listened to it and
i am actually kind of stoked on it
like it's not as if you can't tune it out and the transition is so good
Anna: the week I got this album I was dealing with some serious disappointment/angst and I put it on because I knew it would calm me down
and boy oh boy did it
Mike: read a lot of interviews where he brings up how this was the album w/acoustic guitar and upright bass and this 'really warms up the sound' or some bullshit like that
i actually really agree with that and i like it quite a bit more than the album before this as a result
Anna: this song has some of the best-calibrated dopamine effects
Mike: idk about dopamine effects, doesn't do much for me
it just feels like
first ep + years of experience
like it's so well-recorded but the vocals stay the same
Anna: you know how some songs have dance instructions in the lyrics? this song is just, "music's playing so loud" "it all feels right"
like how much simpler can you make it
and the verse/chorus contrast is designed to be as aurally rewarding as possible
never noticed these vocal samples until the last time i listened
which is kind of interesting to put this faux-live element into such a highly produced album
Mike: you know the nature sounds are like
from the garden outside his house
Anna: might have remembered reading that
i just consider It All Feels Right and Don't Give Up to be two halves of a movement
they feel like two of the most similar songs on the album and there isn't really a distinction
Mike: i mean he is still talking about things feeling right
95% sure this whole album is about getting really high and making out
Anna: OVA HERE
the crowd samples at the end are the same as the beginning btw
Weightless isn't bad but it is kind of the mellow come-down track
I was just listening to some older Washed Out right before this and the amount he's expanded his sound is p impressive
Mike: the mellow come-down track
you mean
mellow come-down album
Anna: the mellow come-down track ON the mellow-come down album
Mike: but YEAH 100% agreed
like that's i think what actually has me psyched on this album
it has so much going on but it's all sort of sneaky and hard to notice if you're not paying attention
and the synth sounds are like flawless
speaking as one of the untold millions of white boys who has fucked around with synthesizers
they do not sound like this normally
Anna: when I saw him I was really impressed and enjoyed it a LOT more than seeing Toro y Moi for example
that was more than a year ago but I think that expansion was already becoming evident
I've seen Toro y Moi I think three times and every time I can't remember if I've seen him before
whereas I'm so hyped for the Washed Out show
Mike: i would not actually mind seeing this dude
Anna: it's good!
Mike: again, obsessive interview reading
he spends a Lot of time
even in the earliest interviews i could find
talking about how he's trying to figure out how to translate his work to a live setting
it almost always comes up
and this last round of interviews he talks about how he thinks he's finally getting it
Anna: i just got an album from an artist who's been touring with Toro y Moi and his sound got kind of Toro-ified and i'm bummed about it
omg you're getting me so pysched
this whole sound just goes so far beyond what "chillwave" used to mean and he's gone farther than anybody probably
are you ready for one of the best songs!!!!!
Mike: yes duh
and idk i feel like chillwave became very codified and there were bands that rolled with that and bands that were like wait hold on we're actual creative human beings not parts of some movement
Anna: hahah this is a little Ray of Light too isn't it
Mike: OH I MEANT TO TELL YOU
influences he's mentioned are generally kinda obvious but mid-tempo early 90s pop is
a big deal for him
and i found this pm dawn band he mentioned and um anna
it is kind of uncanny
Anna: the little maraca/bass thing here ooooof
oh shit i forgot to look that up! i will
Mike: put this on on mute
and imagine what it would be like if it actually synced up with the song
for real though the music too is
obviously not the same but you can hear one in the other
Anna: excited
i liked #2 and #3 so much when i first heard the album that i overlooked All I Know but!!
Mike: this song doesn't really seem high-energy but it totally is
reminds me of hang-gliding
timelapse videos of plane flights etc.
Anna: it's that piano riff and the laser beams
i don't know half of what he's saying but it doesn't seem like it's terribly important
if there's a weak element to this album it's probably his voice, honestly?
Mike: going back to interviews
has repeatedly said lyrics are a total afterthought for him
and mentioned in one interview i think that he's been processing his vocals/doing the harmonies the same way the whole time
Anna: there's not a whole lot of musicians I'd accept that from
because I tend to be pretty lyrically oriented
Mike: i mean i barely care what he's saying
Anna: and really admire great songwriting
but
not here
Mike: implying great songwriting means great words
um have you heard the killers
'human' is the perfect example of a song that makes literally no sense but also conveys a very specific feeling/sense
Anna: Great Escape is the other not-crucial track in my book, not that the pacing would work without it but it's not like, my jam
Mike: the track your dealer puts on over and over and over again while you're undergoing a mandatory hangout sesh
Anna: oh god, the most awkward social interaction known to man
have you ever had a dealer who kept pet tarantulas bc if not you can't begin to know the meaning of "get me out of here"
Mike: no and i also sort of relish awkward conversation
since i'm from space and it's nice not having to pretend like i'm not
Anna: i think i want to go on a camping trip with Ernest Green rn
on the cover of the CD and the vinyl the flowers are embossed and it's so nicely done
with the whole idea of lush tropical texture
Mike: interviews again
he has that kanye thing going where he sees every aspect (packaging/merch/whatever) as contributing to the image and therefore wholly worthy of his attention
Anna: it's always funny to me how paperbacks with embossed letters are usually pulp-quality writing but so many good albums have fancy embossing things going on these days
Mike: i think it's because in general embossing is some real expensive shit for the sort of runs that washed out is doing and not for james patterson
Anna: it's time for another one of my favorite songs!! that is 6 and a half minutes long
this intro feels like the soundtrack to the butterfly house at the zoo
Mike: omg are we both thinking of peggy notabaert or whatever
because yes
Anna: oh i only ever went to the brookfield one
Mike: lame
Anna: butterflies love redheads you know
but yeah the repetition of that one butterfly/video-game sound
it's like it has its own life outside of what else is going on in the song
a paracosm is an invented world also so
Mike: yeah i read abt that!!!!!!!
such a good name for things
and the idea of a tiny world where this is the only music anyone listens to appeals
Anna: synecdoche for how his language is so simple but the amount of sounds going is so complex
bc it's operating on some kind of platform that exists beyond this one
Mike: or maybe the sort of absolute cohesiveness of the album
it doesn't sound quite like anything else and it sounds like itself
all the time
that's a dumb thing to say but as i remember he is very careful about writing songs and then pruning the ones which don't fit the overall image he has in mind
no matter how good they are
Anna: i like that, it's more like a project less like a band
and ohhhhh my god this song
the guitar is totally stolen out of some feel-good 60s song
Mike: beach boys
intro to sloop john b
dead serious, listen after
Anna: shit maybe this is the best song
how will i ever decide
Mike: i don't even want to single any of them out
they don't really single themselves out you have to work at it
Anna: like i said i had high hopes when i put this album on the first time but i didn't expect it to be this good
Mike: i had exactly no hopes
i remember listening to washed out when i was in hs and getting bored and then thinking well this guy's never going to do shit
Anna: the way he says "falling back" sounds almost like "euphoria" and i just love that
Mike: man isn't the human voice rad
Anna: one of my favorite things about rapgenuis is the level of confidence the critics have with saying "this phrase sounds like that phrase therefore it is valid to connect them"
which is something i'm used to in visual analysis but not as much music analysis
Mike: reading rap genius
don't you have a suburb lawn to mow or something
go look at the latest hood by air collection maybe post a look from it on your tumblr
Anna: i don't know what that is
this glockenspiel thing fuck
Mike: glockenspiel??????
Anna: i don't know any fucking instruments mike
the bell thing
Mike: vibraphone i think
glockenspiels are clinky
Anna: i had to look up vibraphone vs. marimba on youtube the other day to get it right
clap clap clap clap
those were kind of synced up like people clapping for an encore, right?
Mike: yeah
i am ALL about the semi-unrelated piano outro
layla, etc.
Anna: but it's such murder when you're trying to make mix cds!!!
anyway okay on to the encore track
Mike: did he do this on the last album
Anna: i still think it's sort of dumb and self-indulgent to call your outro track "It's All Over Now" but I want to be able to forgive him
Mike: last one blends together a bunch in a kind of bad way for me
oh come on
he could have called it 'outro' or 'epilogue' or 'deadening' or whatever
accept that here is a man who does not really give a shit about words
but gives enough of a shit to at least put the title of the song in the song
also it sounds like 'song over now'
Anna: LOL
does this ever feel like a breakup album to you
Mike: no but note that i am a breakup album aficionado
Anna: idk though, "it's so hard to let go because you're all i know," "don't give up," and then this
Mike: oh man and it's one of those super good intro tracks where it sums up the whole album
strings/acoustics and very distorted bass/percussion
samples of her own voice
and 'i thought i could organize freedom/how scandinavian of me'
Anna: the most coherent lyric there is
Mike: which is both funny and potentially a statement of purpose because it can seem like it's going off the rails sometimes but everything is a-ok
Anna: point out to me where you feel like it's going off the rails
i love it when a track feels like it's going too far but pulls it together spectacularly
Mike: well we'll get to it but 'pluto' still scares the shit out of me tbqh
and the whole point is that it's setting up the last track
Anna: is there a single word for "that feeling when you holy shit almost fell off the cliff"
Mike: rush? idk
oh man joga
did you know ben gibbard covered this
guess what happens when you try to cover bjork
(you fail miserably)
Anna: i think she did this one when i saw her at p4k?
it seemed familiar
or she's living inside our souls
that seems likely too
Mike: i can check the setlist
a big thing for me with this album is that when i was trying to get into music that wasn't prog rock i just put her entire discography on and i'd spend however long it took listening through it
and then i'd just do that again
so i know every bjork song in the back of my head
ok and now you have this ridiculous smooth synth bass line and the distorted drums of death and those gorgeous strings
Anna: very weird bass is very weird
feel like it's almost something the casual listener could miss
this is one of the harder songs for me to listen to, not sure why
Mike: interesting album fact
that was mark bell
bjork switched producers after post/debut and mark bell worked with her for this and he is Kind of a Big Deal if you are an IDM person
he was in one of the first bands on warp
Anna: tell me oh bjork explainer, what are these words at the end here
Mike: a really important thing to realize with bjork is that it's all in the delivery
like if you can't understand it that's because she's trying to articulate something emotional
also i think joga can be a bitch to listen to if you're expecting a traditional song structure
because the same things just keep happening over and over again
Anna: i think you appreciate Bjork with your Spock brain
Mike: nah she is like ALL emotion
like we're listening to unravel right now ideally
this shit gets FRAUGHT anna
Anna: if you haven't realized we have drastically different emotional perceptions/expressions
Unravel is probably my favorite track though
that probably marks me as an entry-level homogeniac
Mike: nah
thom yorke's favorite
a lot of people's i think
Anna: like i said, entry-level
Mike: the lyrics are a decent compromise between english and bjork
Anna: ahaha
Mike: and the vocal performance
you can sort of tell she has a level above where most people's voices can go
in terms of intensity/volume
this weird sing/scream thing
i love that
Anna: it's still going in my little black book of lana del rey appreciation
Mike: that's so fucking dumb anna
lana's whole deal is muted affect
this weird sing-speak thing because it's abundantly clear (see: snl, etc.) that she's not much of a singer
bjork on the other hand has the vocal equivalent of a howitzer
and i sort of see where you're coming from because they both have kind of a wide vibrato but it's really not the same thing
Anna: i'm not trying to say she's good, i'm trying to figure out why she's popular
in part, because she/her songwriters were able to distill the unoffensive, populist part of something original and experimental like this
Mike: lana can't be as subtle or as intense
and something most people don't pick up with bjork immediately is that you can hear her mess up a little/hear her take breaths
also makes her live albums fun because she NAILS it
because again
mass-produced american nothing v. icelandic artillery
pablum
and i love how bjork will sing refrains/melodies just a little differently each time
hold on to some syllables let other ones go early
oof
and then just sort of gradually abandon the idea of words altogether
which isn't her trick but it's a great one
Anna: i'm going to have to make you listen to something i've listened to as much as this
Mike: jesus sorry i really like this album
Anna: all neon like is sort of a strange pacing choice
Mike: again one of those great english-bjork lyrics
'not till you halo all over me'
i see bachlorette as a peak that you couldn't really follow with something more intense
so you need this weird half-downtempo thing
Anna: this song has repeatedly convinced me there are smoke detectors that need new batteries in my apartment
Mike: oh man
this super weird synth 2:20ish
is another example of that rad-ass peanut butter-chocolate thing this album has going on
these beautiful glassy things and then distortion everywhere
Anna: and around 3:00 it starts getting really twin peaks
Mike: yeah
baths is apparently a huge bjork fan
which makes sense because at his best he's doing some very similar stuff i think
in terms of fitting strange sounds together at once
Anna: those squeaky smoke detector noises get so much worse when i have to think about them not being smoke detectors and actually being, like, bjork's nails on a blackboard
Mike: one of the really fun things about this album/bjork in general is that she writes the songs and does a significant portion of the actual production work herself
the people who work with her are collaborators not controllers
love that
Anna: that outgoing percussion is a jump rope rhythm
Mike: really good quote i found a while back about how she hates that whenever critics hear the albums they think a man must have done the tracks while she was outside or something
also oh god
i told you that back when i was listening to this on repeat, as a young lad
this [5 Years] was how the album started
which would be cool but also wouldn't really work in terms of the whole album
it's like she punches you in the gut
and everything after isn't really as crazy
Anna: so is it a coincidence that the word "loveless" is in here
Mike: like anything to do w/bjork all you can really do is shrug
this was apparently written right after she broke up with tricky though
what's so scary/not a threat in sight/you just can't handle/you just can't handle love
Anna: i didn't realize they dated, that's a pretty interestingly couple
also story of my life rite
i'm so bored of cowards
Mike: at around 2:30 she's just a little bit away from screaming and she eases off
and then it's back to this beautiful normal voice
and then right back to RAW EMOTION
Anna: her vocal exercises to keep in shape for this must be nuts
Mike: and yeah i like to pretend this is sung by every single person i've been in a relationship with
oh man yeah hours and hours + strict diet
Anna: or consider that she probably won't be able to sing this song forever
Mike: apparently she's finally beginning to run out of juice, vocally
but she seems like the sort of person who won't really have an issue with that
will transition into something different
Anna: for sure
i was going to say, the song is a record of a performance and if the performance isn't repeatable then the end date is a part of the art
Mike: DUDE i was just reading in this jean rhys book
this lady puts on her victrola or whatever and gets tripped out because she realizes that the voices she's hearing are dead, that she's listening to ghosts
recording is some weird shit
Anna: like most of Marina Abramovic's pieces are retired and she won't/can't ever do them again
a couple of them because they're too freaking dangerous
Mike: that one with the table
and the whole 'do whatever' deal
Anna: oh my god that's not even the most dangerous one
she and her partner like held like knives or loaded guns or something over each other [edit: it was a giant bow and arrow]
everyone knows the table one, that's not even the freakiest
Mike: i don't see that as being as dangerous though
that's your best bro in the whole world
forfeiting control of your body to a group of strangers
again
trust vs. no trust
Anna: hey were we listening to bjork
Mike: u started it
but yeah
alarm call
i REALLY like this one
she gets super out there with the phrasing
Anna: once almost wrote a paper about date paintings and the significance of ending/dates/entropy/mortality in art
yeah i like this too
why does it have two Ls
Mike: iiiiiiiiiiiiim no FUCKING buddhist but this IS enlightenment
like nobody else would see that line and do that to it
Anna: if this album had singles, what would they be?
this would probably be one of them
Mike: 95% sure it had singles and they charted
"Jóga" Released: September 1997
"Bachelorette" Released: December 1997
"Hunter" Released: March 1998
"Alarm Call" Released: October 1998
"All Is Full of Love" Released: June 1999
Anna: idc what the actual singles were, i play this game with albums all the time
hmm that's probably what would i have picked, but not Hunter
Mike: you might not have caught the chord change after that line about trying to organize freedom
it kills
oh man pluto time
Anna: i'll take another look after we're done
how cute is it that Pluto is the 9th track
Mike: this was the song i really had to learn to like while listening to this again
but it's so good jesus
remember that kid a was nowhere near out yet and that was such a huge deal because thom's messing with his beautiful beautiful voice or whatever who cares
bjork's over here like way ahead of u boiz
Anna: i hope i never come around to radiohead
Mike: i mean i dunno anna they do that thing where they take relatively original and inventive stuff and take it into the mainstream?
seem right up your alley
Anna: oh i would not be interested in ldr at all if it weren't such a total girl thing
radiohead is
not a girl thing
Mike: i think that's why girls don't like archer, either
Anna: law school ex is all about archer
i didn't last 10 minutes
Mike: yeah
o well
all is full of love time
Anna: yeah
the perfect middle between tapering off and going out with a bang?
Mike: the way i see it is that you have to look beyond the individual tracks
immature -> pluto is basically one huge climax
and then this is the comedown
Anna: you're right there's not much of a distinct switch from Immature into Allarm Call
Mike: also leads right into vespertine aka the Sex Album
Anna: it can feel like a total coincidence that Bjork's work happens to appear as standard-length albums with normal numbers of songs
all that weird ipad app shit is starting to make more sense
Mike: i mean that's part of the fun, for me
you have these insanely out there sounds/vocals
but you can also sing along if you want to?
and listen to it without thinking too much or while thinking way too much and you're still ok
she's a really good way to get into weird stuff because she's weird as hell but you get the impression it's not because she doesn't want you to listen
just bjork being herself all over everything
Anna: honest question, how did she get like this
the tendency seems to be "she's from iceland/outer space what do you expect"
but that's a pretty dismissive attitude to take
Mike: child star, recorded album at 12
ditched that, discovered punk rock
gets into a weird sort of goth rock/siouxie thing with a band called KUKL
who toured with crass how weird is that
then the sugarcubes
as far as i can tell she was just simultaneously open to outside influence and unwilling to fully compromise herself
which is what's it's all about maybe
like you were talking about references in lyrics and so on re that lana del rey lady
vespertine borrows from like
ee cummings, harmony korine, and some super weird avant-garde play
and again you look at her collaborators and the things they've done
and that's a whole other impressive thing
Anna: how great would it be to wake up like "I'm Bjork gonna do what I want"
Mike: that's why she's so great
got her own beat and she marches to it
...
Anna: this has to have been the most emotionally confrontational discussion yet
Mike: it was nice though because it didn't feel like some who's afraid of virginia woolf shit
just like if we were at a bar or something that's about how i'd talk about it
right down to the part where i talk WAY too much
Anna: ha yeah highest Mike:Anna word ratio yet probably
Mike: sorry
Anna: you do you
Mike: oh yeah i was just wondering sometimes whether you had stuff to say and you were just like
nvm he's on a roll
Anna: sometimes
but we'll do Wild Nothing or something and then that'll be me
Mike: fair
idk i was a lot more interested in your reaction to it but
it kind of is a big/deep album
though it does not at all appear to be?
and it took me a very long time to like it
Anna: are you kidding of course it does
Mike: anna it has singles/videos
adheres to standard western tonality mostly
rhythms are nice and rhythmic
idk it's really not so bad
like that king crimson thing i made you put on
oof
that album is really good at feeling sort of familiar until i look at it closely
Anna: maybe my payback will be making you do the new Washed Out
Mike: lolllllllllllllllllllllll
Anna: which i LOVE
Mike: michael you can't just say 'fuck' over and over again that's not a real response
my little brother likes that show and it's doing bad things to him i think
if i hear him use the word fandom i'm throwing him out of the family
also this is SO alexis taylor rn
Anna: my ex thought he wouldn't like it so I made him watch one episode and he cried
yes this is one of the Hot Chip tracks
Mike: i watched the first season of the most recent reboot
i think my favorite part was probably not watching it any more
Anna: you watched the ninth doctor you did it wrong
Mike: he was bald and kind of funny
too bad about the rest of the show huh
not bald, shaved
either way
Anna: are we talking about Christopher Eccleston or Alexis Taylor
both bald and kind of funny
Mike: alexis taylor is not funny
Anna: you don't find Hot Chip very light-hearted most of the time?
creepy too but creepy like Scary Movie creepy
Mike: i like him a lot better when he gets Dark
and he really really does sometimes
Anna: and we shift into the alt-rock-sounding second track
Mike: yeah
Anna: I'm going to talk about another thing you hate, which is Oasis
Mike: no they're good
except for
i dunno
most of their songs?
but the good ones make up for it
Anna: hmm maybe you've come around since we last talked
in case you haven't noticed yet, the theme of Porcelain Raft is pastiche
I could talk about literally every other band ever while listening to this album
Mike: oh man
what i was going to say was
i was listening to his earlier band
what were they called hoooold on
sunny day sets fire
and just imagine like
music to buy uo cardigans to
and then right as that tapers off you got your washed out you got your chill waves
and oh hey what's this new porcelain raft ep sound like
oh hahahahahah how WEIRD is that
Anna: Parker has a sound he calls "retail music" and it's totally a thing
heard Austra in Banana Republic yesterday
Mike: no idea who that is
i was in a banana republic once and felt so so so unwelcome
Anna: track 2 is kinda weak i gotta say
BUT THIS ONE
oh my god is track 3 beautiful
Mike: this is the spiritualized one
like spiritualized but it doesn't really peak
Anna: no it doesn't it builds up and does the faintest little drop ever
"drop into the fainting couch" drop
I just turned it up a bunch
this song brings me glee
Mike: spiritualized man
Anna: oh yeah you're so right
Mike: we gotta do ladies and gentlemen for one of these
Anna: sure
I can't get over "Anyway That You Want Me" though
Mike: oh man i need to listen to them so much more
Anna: can't picture you dancing at your wedding reception but I can picture you staring at your feet through a Spiritualized song
Mike: anna i can dance like a motherfucker
also does it kind of weird you out that this guy is like 40
i stopped being able to sing like this a LONG time ago
Anna: yeah I took note of that too
but! when you listen to many first albums you realize there's no substitute for experience
first albums can be really good but this is really clearly someone who's done this a few times
I wish the lyrics were a little more sensible so I could sing along
Mike: apparently he makes the song and then he just sort of mumbles over it
and then the mumbles become words
Anna: flub flub flub
and then this interlude thing
Mike: sounds like mum
Anna: idk if you feel like you need an interlude I doubt that's what you need
it does sound like Mum though
Mike: maybe he has some really weird ideas re: what constitutes a big climax
like i'm totally down with a nice slow thing after something massive
but that was nothing
oh man i can't figure out what shoegaze-y dream pop band this is but it's not him
though there's not really a him i guess
Anna: this is Blonde Redhead maybe?
i wish Minor Pleasure led into another, equal jam
the tension between track 3 and track 4 is often the BEST
see: latest vampy weeks and deerhunter
Mike: haven't listened to either
jesus i'm a fucking illiterate rn
in my defense i refuse to support ezra koenig's boat shoe habit, deerhunter has never struck me as interesting, and blonde redhead is just
i get weirded out because my sister and i go places a lot and that's how you'd describe us
Anna: have you ever read Ezra's tweets tho, Deerhunter made an American rock album!!!, I think I was drawn to Blonde Redhead originally bc of my hair
Mike: in order
- no, it's on twitter
- yes, they are a rock band from america
- you dyed your hair!
ugh what is this ripping off i know it's ripping something off
Anna: track 6?
Mike: yeah
Anna: Mauro Remiddi, highly accomplished stunt double for most other electronic pop/rock bands
Mike: radiohead maybe
can see them doing the busy drums and the moaning
Anna: oh yeah!
"Thom in your throat, dear?"
I remember Ok Computer was the first thing you said when I showed you this album and it was v helpful bc I am Radiohead-hater and I wouldn't have gone there
all shrunk down to tight three-minute proportions though
Mike: i catch myself singing along to this one
Anna: piano ballad "I Lost Connection," which reminds me mostly of "Don't Look Back In Anger"
Mike: i had to listen to this album for so long before i actually liked it because i just couldn't get past the fucking instagram production
his first album is really funny because it sounds almost exactly like the cover looks
and the cover looks SO CLOSE to loveless from a distance and loveless has that same thing going on
Anna: this is so soooooulllful
Mike: i actually like this one
Anna: not my favorite at all
Minor Pleasure all the way
Mike: i'm a sucker for ballads tho
that elvis costello/burt bacharach
Anna: i'm a sucker for anything referring to pleasure honestly
cover of his first album reminds me of this one
speaking of things instagram filtered
Mike: naw because that has a single thing to focus on in the middle there
Anna: the 'grams is part of the visual motivation for a lot of color-altered stuff
like Tame Impala album covers
Mike: lol tame impala
it's all trying to replicate old photos/fucked up photos
Anna: is this another interlude dammit
Mike: i remember telling you that tame impala sounds like a boring rock band until it's put through some sort of machine that eats disposable camera pictures and then out comes tame impala
Anna: how do you not feel the same way about this album
listen to this song right now
impala'd as fuck
Mike: that was at least real pictures from real cameras
this is instagram shit
2009: mauro remiddi is out of luck and out of ideas
and then
the pitchfork top lists are released
Anna: i don't think his inspiration is that limited
the other thing this album reminds me of all the time is Madonna
Mike: all i've heard by her = like a virgin/vogue/ray of light
Anna: Ray of Light is a REALLY GOOD ALBUM
Mike: quick question did you hear her at an early age
Anna: middle school I guess but only that James Bond soundtrack
early enough I guess?
Mike: i wasn't allowed to listen to her what with the talking about sex and all
Anna: wow if my parents had paid more attention to what I was listening to we would not be here today
that was a pretty good song actually
b side sleeper hit
this whole album is a sleeper
let's talk about who he isn't borrowing from, right? Twin Shadow or Passion Pit or anyone who makes actual single-ready pop songs
Mike: if this album was a kid in high school it would be hanging out with some of the cool kids but none of the cool kids actually know his name he just shows up
he just searched for 'atmospheric' and 'hazy' on every music review site and then got to torrenting
Anna: I mean, I know that's how you'd do it
are we back to Spiritualized territory again
Mike: this is some like post-rock interlude shit
Anna: happy you pointed out the Loveless cover art thing, I love cover art and think it deserves more credit
the cover of this album looks like a dystopian paperback
Mike: oh shit almost like you're an art student or something
Anna: did you look at his website? the fonts are so 50s
Mike: you know what the problem with music is you guys
not enough pictures
we gotta work on that!!! pictures are great
Anna: last two song are a bit of a bust, no?
Mike: i like this one
it has that same spiritualized repetitive piano figure
and the really rad e-bow guitar stuff in the back
i guess he chose some ok things to rip off sometimes
Anna: lots of good ideas not enough original ones to really carry it
liked what you said about him just having a really weird sense of what a climax is
Mike: i think that's where you can tell it's one person maybe
because when a bunch of people are in a room and decide to get LOUD it sounds a lot different
talking out of my ass maybe
but yeah like
good choices for the influences proud of u
Anna: six months from now "Minor Pleasure" is probably going to be the only thing I remember
Mike: not if we both get Really Into Spiritualized
Mike: check out this fucking organ right now what is this a frightened rabbit song or something
Anna: when I first put on this CD I didn’t know what it was but it looked relaxing so I thought I’d do some yoga while I was listening
Mike: bout to get intense up in here
bikram shit
Anna: and I thought it was just the biggest Bon Iver/Frightened Rabbit ripoff I’d ever heard and was like the hell??
Mike: bon iver and his boys up in back turning up the thermostat
trying to think what else i wanted to say just like really quick
i read the pitchfork review and the pre-album article or interview and listening to this after reading those things was super weird
Anna: I was seriously angry like “who would steal Justin Vernon’s vocal style EXACTLY”
Jagjaguwar you can do better! you have actual Bon Iver!"
Mike: lolllllllllll vocals: bone shiver
Anna: was that “pass the cinnamon” because that’s me every day
Mike: i think this is the ‘experimental part’and this is the late-sigur ros CLIMAX
keep imagining this being used to score a really intense documentary about like
a mountain climber who loses a leg but keeps climbing mountains anyway
or like 8 mountain climbers with different combinations of lost limbs
Anna: the best part of the Pitchfork review was the part where the author was like, “is this the sound of them having fun?”
just imagining this music writer like “could this be this concept of ‘fun’ I have heard of”
"what if a band was seen to be having fun"
Mike: also lol yeah
Anna: THEN AGAIN there is no word for “fun” in French and there’s not really a good translation
it is not really a concept they grasp culturally
Mike: the part i like is that he’s totally baffled
like dude it sounds just like bon iver bon iver but with POST ROCK CLIMAXES
oh god spotify ad on hold up
ok here we go
relaxation
meditation
loofah ad
this sounds national-y
Anna: yeah that is one of the things i put in my review, “The National if they were kind of inscrutable and goofy”
Mike: i wish there was more auto-tune
Anna: wow i almost agree with you
that might be the edge of over-the-top-ness they need
Mike: one of the only things i like about the guy is that he’s not really afraid to fuck up his voice
that would be a lot more interesting i think
Anna: Lord Huron did it just a little on one song and then backed away from it, which just set it up for failure as an effect
they could have just laced the whole album with it
Mike: also it would remind me of pony bwoy
there was an interview w/those guys where they talked abt how distorting the vocals was an absolutely essential part of their deal
Anna: I have to imagine this isn’t an act that’s going to tour, either, so it really could just be the autotuned hothouse flower of an album
Mike: no come on these guys could go BIG
3000-5000 men in beards and flannel doing the backing vocals
that’s just the BAND we’re not even on the audience yet
Anna: is the audience 3000-5000 bearded flannel men singing along
Mike: it’s a weird kind of symmetry but i think it’ll work out ok
the only merch they’d sell would be pictures of lakes and woodburning kits
ok on to comrade
i think this has vocals
gr8
oh yeah, it does
i’ve listened to this album like 8 times and i almost forgot
Anna: so speaking of bands on Totally Gross National Product, I was just listening to a new album Moonstone Continuum on my way home and it is also really high-concept 80s imitation
Mike: !!! LIKE BETH REST?????
Anna: more new-wavey and with some weird skits
Mike: also oh boy falsetto/harmony/reverb u MINE that VEIN bon winter
ok see how this would be rad with autotune
Anna: yes
Mike: this refrain here
there’s a part on ‘some nights’
that song by fun
Anna: also was that a lyric about cornbread just now
Mike: believe so
jesus… … …
Anna: did you see me spend like 20 minutes making fun of Fun this morning
Mike: no
i like some nights a lot though
just the autotune part
Anna: no Mike they are responsible for every “oooo oooo oooo oooo” in a song from here until 2015 just no
I got an EP today by some band that exists to collect ad campaign placements and seriously 4 out of 5 songs have an “oooo oooo”
Mike: oh man i feel like there’s going to be another climax
yeah we’re about 2/3 of the way through
there’s gotta be
Anna: here’s your autotune
Mike: THERE WE GO
SHIT JUST KICKED IN
how bleak is that i heard the weird twisted/processed vocals and was like ah yes they just did this, shit’s about to get real
hear the robot voice
more of that
that works
Anna: Justin Verson/Daft Punk/Pharrell collaboration petition
Byegone is my least favorite song on here I believe
Mike: also hold on let me find this quote real quick
“I’m talking about how what happens between people is so misunderstood even between the people who are having the sex. Maybe some of the lyrics on this record are my way of cracking that egg.”
“maybe some of the lyrics on this record are my way of cracking that egg”
also i’m pretty sure the music for this is in the back of ‘post rock for dummies’
it’s the song you play with your budding band once you’ve worked your way through the exercises
Anna: I wake up, nude. Bon Iver turns to me, his shirt open to the third button. Gently, he asks, “Would you like some fresh-baked cornbread?”
Mike: oh god he’d have some hair
also ok lemme look up these lyrics again
“With enough keif
You could really bore someone”
you know honestly this would probably sound amazing if i was high and had a serious naked juice habit
Anna: I was about to say, he’s talking about kefir, right?
yeah I hate this chorus, it sounds all Fun
Mike: one of those bands where everyone has a drum and during these parts they all just start hitting the drums
and screaming
guys look feelings over here feelings thunk thunk feelings
oh jesus these words
“stranded in the housing of our moving housing”
did he say that
did i mishear that
Anna: “heard you’re pretty competent, so why aren’t you confident, it’s something to be softening, so why are you so consummate?”
listened to that three times to be sure he wasn’t saying “constipated”
Mike: oh hey guess who has another good internet quote
Anna: go on
Mike: “Talking about the vocal sessions, Rosenau says Vernon ‘basically sang on fully fleshed-out songs, but we got to be there and bounce ideas off each other and laugh and cry and all this shit while he was doing these bananas vocal things that no one had ever heard before!’
‘The miracle of Volcano Choir is we all trust each other,’ he continues. ‘We have no idea what the hell is going to happen when these people get in front of an instrument or microphone, but we know it’s going to blow us away.’”
“shameless and humming
like a violent strumming
sutra didn’t suit you”
Anna: i know that one SUCKS
can we start over with Alaskans here i got stuck on Byegone for a minute
Mike: he followed matt from the national to the bar and waited for matt to go to the bathroom and leave his fucking moleskine on the table
Anna: lollllll @ that
Mike: you can just see it happen
like oh that’s why this is like this
Anna: because all the pages that turned into full National songs were already torn out and it was just the one-liners and false starts left
Mike: it’s like you’re in my head
let the record reflect
that i am listening to this song twice for you
i’m not even going to do what i normally do when this album comes on and look at pictures of fresh fallen snow and hawks and shit
Anna: can you imagine someone trying to write songs out of my moleskine
and yes, pitckfork writer was right about the nature documentary being strong with this one
Mike: i said that
did he say that?
shit
we must be watching a lotta nature documentaries
Anna: this chorus sounds exactly like some Bon Iver song
this was the first song I played on my show and after I felt underwhelmed
Mike: i don’t think there’s anything in the pitchfork review abt that
except this maybe
“The depth of the drums evoke not just canyons and churches, but the Grand Canyon and Sistine Chapel.”
OK BUDDY
Anna: jesus fucking christ Justin Vernon, National Treasure and Holy Chapel
Mike: he problem with being a bearded sensitive flannel bro is
you never have to grow out of it
you can keep that shit going until kids think you’re santa claus
Anna: has he ever been to the Sistine Chapel because me either but uhhhh
Michelangelo is rolling his eyes I’m 99% sure
Mike: ok fun game
am i going to dance to the song called ‘dancepack’?
this sounds like an outtake from ‘tonto’ by battles at the start
Anna: can we talk about how they wrote 8 songs and then scanned for 8 Tumblr tags to name them after
Mike: no way these are all blogs justin vernon runs
and you can’t tell any of them apart
nature pictures, log cabins, pictures of cute girls dressed demurely
Anna: “Alaskans” is the pale blog
oh I forgot this song is super rude and obscene
Mike: oh shit is it?
i tune most of the words out i’m gonna be honest like
not worth it
Anna: “I’ll be on the old lady I’ll be riding her like ooo ooo oo”
I think that’s what it says???
needless to say that was pretty disruptive to my yoga practice
Mike: man
think justin vernon actually said that or is he passive-aggressively getting back at the one person who goes to his bar who speaks above a whisper normally
like oh you’re TALKING in my BAR
just wait for my diabolical revenge
bonnie prince iver away
Anna: Bon Iver Surprise Symphony?
honestly I think it’s just one of those lyrics that would never ever fly if there was a woman within twenty yards of band practice
Mike: awwwwwwwwwwwright got some processed guitars in here bet they’re not gonna end up stuck in that same build crescendo release thing
this isn’t that kind of band, they don’t repeat things song to song
Anna: but does that really count as “experimental”? because i feel like they’re stretching that pretty far
Mike: i mean they were experimenting in the studio
this was probably new to at least one of them once
the thing about this is
listen to the piano
because there’s a constant pulse/rhythm going on it basically takes all the interesting background stuff and makes it noise
if he was singing without that piano we might be talking ‘weird’ a little
idk that’s like this entire album
if they were trying to make another bon iver album yes it is sort of not quite that
Anna: but I think people are already fed up with having to call AnCo “experimental” over and over when they’re making recognizably rock/pop albums
"experimental" is supposed to mean more than "slightly different than Bon Iver"
Mike: oh man this didn’t actually have one of those group vocals/tension/release things
i stand corrected
Anna: also I’m being a crab because I think “Keel” is the boring song that doesn’t really go anywhere
Mike: that is kinda fair let’s see if there is a deep meaning in the words
Anna: it’s the song most bands would put last probably, but this band is “experimental” so they put one of the strongest tracks last
because they know the beardy flannels are purists who will listen all the way to the end, i guess
Mike: i mean i think there are two ways to end an album
1. high note
2. sort of slinking out
Anna: 3. “Beth/Rest”
Mike: that’s a false dichotomy but basically you go hard or you just try and play yourself off
dude that is very definitely a high note
Anna: it is a weird note
Mike: like oh you sat through all that here’s something interesting
also
“The prophet’s here, the prophet’s here.
Oh, it’s no use.
Bend down into the grass, down into the grass for me.”
SEXY LYRICS
SEXY SEXY SEXY
do you think justin vernon is the prophet in this scenario he is setting up
rolling up to the bed in his log cabin
the prophet’s here
Anna: like “roll up to the crib
the hand-carved pinewood crib for our firstborn”
Mike: it took me a month i could have spent writing these lyrics but
hahahahah oops
Anna: lol
"all of this is over, all of us are sober" doubt that
still think this is one of the stronger tracks and not coincidentally it’s the longest by quite a bit
Mike: gotta get that post rock build going
Anna: this whole idea might have worked better if they stretched it out a little
Mike: that’s like the whole album though like
Anna: you need time to make this stuff develop so it can really work
Mike: if they had actually done something really weird at any point it might have been good
Anna: the end
Mike: agreed