5. Fun fact: I once fell asleep listening to a priest's speech. We have remembered it from time to time ever since. That is why Nero's complaints that sermons make him sleepy make us laugh.
Allow me a moment to gush about the cinematography in DMC for a second
Because let me tell you, one camera shot just sent me on a whole journey
I was combing back through DMC5 and Visions of V in search of references for Dante and Vergil's childhood home. So I was playing through Mission 12, taking screenshots, seeing all of the things I could see, and something stuck out to me. Dante is walking through the front entrance of the house, and the camera cuts to this shot here:
Huh. Now haven't I seen a shot like this before?
And it's not just any closet in the first screenshot. That's the same closet Eva hid him in. If you look, you can see some of the same architecture visible in both shots. On the left is the same marble column, and on the right is a twisty wooden pillar that's visible from several other in-game shots. So while it's a cool and interesting shot, it's also doing something very important. It's calling back to the last time Dante was here. It's a subtle reminder of the trauma this place holds for him, all told to the player without a single word
Now that's cool enough on its own, but then that got me thinking... where is that closet, exactly? Because I'd always been under the impression that it was deeper in the house somewhere. But actually, I realized I'd seen it as Dante was entering
(See the twisty wooden pillar I mentioned before?)
It's right next to their front door. You can sort of see a sliver of light from outside on the right of the screen as Eva is running to find Vergil, if you look closely in the mission 10 cutscene (sorry for the potato quality, Dante jerks his head away just after this so you only see it for a split second)
And again, you can see the wardrobe right next to the door as Vergil walks in, prior to the events of the story
So let's talk about the domino effect this had on my understanding of what happened to the twins when they were eight
I never got the impression that Dante was physically harmed by the demons in the same way Vergil was. While Vergil was physically eviscerated, Dante's trauma always seemed to center around the experience of watching Eva die (and believing Vergil had died as well). But then how did the demons never find him? I'd assumed it was because the closet was somewhere deeper in the house, so maybe he was able to hide long enough to find an opportunity to escape. But actually, that closet isn't tucked away somewhere secret. It's right by the door. It'd probably be the first place anyone would look. I don't believe the demons would just give up on trying to kill him, since that's literally the entire reason they're here. So what gives?
Going back to the scene from mission 10, it seems Eva was killed almost immediately after she ran outside. She's barely off screen for a moment before Dante hears her scream.
The fire seems to have been set from the outside, too, unless they had the most fireproof furniture in the universe.
This is, what, 35 years later? Not only is it still intact, it's still white somehow. If you watch this cutscene everything seems to be lightly singed at worst. Considering their house looks like this at the end of Visions of V chapter 25:
I can only assume the fire was actually mostly outside, or at least, it hadn't spread inside to the front entrance where Dante was hiding.
Based on that, it's my guess that the demons hadn't gotten into the house at all. I don't know if they'd be smart enough to try and smoke them out with the fire and then strike when they tried to run out, but it's possible that they were, and that was the tactic for getting to Dante. They wait outside, Eva and Dante run out, boom
But you know who else was outside at the time? Vergil.
He's on his way back to the house when he summons Yamato for the first time
You can see in this page, after they think they've finished with Vergil, the demons turn to approach the house (likely looking for Dante and Eva). Vergil summons Yamato and tears through them all as he continues fighting his way back to the house
So how did Dante get out of this physically unharmed? I think Vergil unwittingly protected him. He killed all the demons, or at least enough of them that Dante could have found a good opening to escape, before he fled.
And then one last thing hit me.
That wardrobe is right next to the front door.
They were probably less than twenty feet away from each other in this moment. If Vergil had stayed and looked, or if Dante had known to call out for him, they could have at least avoided the trauma of losing each other
Some more random thoughts about Visions of V: Nero didn’t just save V...
Some more random thoughts about Visions of V, because this stupid (affectionately calling it this) manga won't leave my brain.
Banging my head against the table after realising that -
Nero saving V from Malphas is one of, if not the most significant, reasons why V convinces Vergil to reconnect with Dante and be his twin again.
When falling off the cliff, V realises that he didn't want power to save his mother, but instead, he wanted her to save him the day of the attack.
When Trish saves V, his realisation is only confirmed- Vergil wanted to be kept safe from harm by someone he loved, or specifically, someone who loved him- his mother. But this can never happen, as Eva is dead.
So, Vergil/V believes that this will never change- they will always be alone, and no one will ever come to save him from harm (He does not consider Dante, as the two are separated by ideals and decades apart). When V is hiding from Malphas, he sees a young Vergil stating that if they want to survive, they must fight back, as the only person they can depend on is themselves.
On the day of the attack, no one came. Vergil was the one who defended himself and killed the demons. This situation is no different. So, if V can not find the strength to fight back, he will die-
Nero saves V, proving his belief wrong. V/Vergil will not experience anything similar to the demon attack he went through when he was eight. In a scenario where he cannot fight back to defend himself, others out there, like Nero, will protect him instead. There are people out there who will protect the weak without hesitation.
This moment, combined with the event in which Trish saves V, helps him realise that what he truly wanted was to be loved and protected. But he could not receive love and protection because he had no one around. His desires for these things eventually twisted into the belief that obtaining power would satisfy them, leading him to seek power instead.
There are a lot of parallels between Nero and Vergil- which is a whole other conversation for later. In this story- in VoV- V recognises there are many similarities between himself (also Vergil, this is confusing) and Nero. But here, he sees that Nero received love and care (from Kyrie, Credo, and their parents) and thus ended up having a different life than he did.
Jump forward to the last part of the story, when V is talking with Vergil, he tells Vergil not to “throw away what is left in [his] hands”. Vergil immediately thinks about Dante on the cliff, and that the two haven’t lived as a family for decades, separated by conflicting ideals and time.
Vergil states that the two are better apart, and Dante would agree. V instead argues the opposite- that Dante would welcome Vergil back into his life. V has seen that people are willing to love and protect others- Nero came to V’s rescue, and Nero himself was loved and protected by the people in his life. Dante can give Vergil what he has always wanted- love and protection- willingly. Dante is at the Qlipoth, so all Vergil has to do is reach out to him.
Nero saved V, which allowed for Vergil to return later on. But he also gave Vergil the evidence that what he wanted was attainable, inspiring him to become Dante’s brother again.
Some more random thoughts about Visions of V: Nero didn’t just save V...
Some more random thoughts about Visions of V, because this stupid (affectionately calling it this) manga won't leave my brain.
Banging my head against the table after realising that -
Nero saving V from Malphas is one of, if not the most significant, reasons why V convinces Vergil to reconnect with Dante and be his twin again.
When falling off the cliff, V realises that he didn't want power to save his mother, but instead, he wanted her to save him the day of the attack.
When Trish saves V, his realisation is only confirmed- Vergil wanted to be kept safe from harm by someone he loved, or specifically, someone who loved him- his mother. But this can never happen, as Eva is dead.
So, Vergil/V believes that this will never change- they will always be alone, and no one will ever come to save him from harm (He does not consider Dante, as the two are separated by ideals and decades apart). When V is hiding from Malphas, he sees a young Vergil stating that if they want to survive, they must fight back, as the only person they can depend on is themselves.
On the day of the attack, no one came. Vergil was the one who defended himself and killed the demons. This situation is no different. So, if V can not find the strength to fight back, he will die-
Nero saves V, proving his belief wrong. V/Vergil will not experience anything similar to the demon attack he went through when he was eight. In a scenario where he cannot fight back to defend himself, others out there, like Nero, will protect him instead. There are people out there who will protect the weak without hesitation.
This moment, combined with the event in which Trish saves V, helps him realise that what he truly wanted was to be loved and protected. But he could not receive love and protection because he had no one around. His desires for these things eventually twisted into the belief that obtaining power would satisfy them, leading him to seek power instead.
There are a lot of parallels between Nero and Vergil- which is a whole other conversation for later. In this story- in VoV- V recognises there are many similarities between himself (also Vergil, this is confusing) and Nero. But here, he sees that Nero received love and care (from Kyrie, Credo, and their parents) and thus ended up having a different life than he did.
Jump forward to the last part of the story, when V is talking with Vergil, he tells Vergil not to “throw away what is left in [his] hands”. Vergil immediately thinks about Dante on the cliff, and that the two haven’t lived as a family for decades, separated by conflicting ideals and time.
Vergil states that the two are better apart, and Dante would agree. V instead argues the opposite- that Dante would welcome Vergil back into his life. V has seen that people are willing to love and protect others- Nero came to V’s rescue, and Nero himself was loved and protected by the people in his life. Dante can give Vergil what he has always wanted- love and protection- willingly. Dante is at the Qlipoth, so all Vergil has to do is reach out to him.
Nero saved V, which allowed for Vergil to return later on. But he also gave Vergil the evidence that what he wanted was attainable, inspiring him to become Dante’s brother again.
If V was told that Nero's his, how do you think he would have reacted? (Like in a scenario that he's present when Trish and Dante talk about it, with no Nero in sight). He is literally the part that Vergil was actively repressing before the split, so I expect it to be different than from pre-split Vergil.
First of all, thank you so much for this message and your patience! The scenario you suggested was super fun to think about and it gave me the perfect excuse to reread Visions of V once more, this time with a focus on each and every little scene that deals with V’s very complicated feelings about Nero.
I think this goes without saying, but just in case: my answer is heavily influenced by how I interpret several passages in the manga and game. My interpretations might differ severely from your own interpretations and if they do, please feel free to share how you think V would have reacted - I always love it when others share their perspectives with me!
That being said, let’s jump right into it!
What if V overheard a conversation between Trish and Dante regarding the fact that Nero is Vergil’s son but Nero himself was not present?
I’d like to start by establishing what I think V embodies because - quite frankly - Vergil’s humanity sounds quite vague and inaccurate.
(And yes, this might seem like an odd starting point but we’ll come back to this later, I promise.)
Vergil did not take Yamato and cut away “his humanity” - whatever that is supposed to encompass - what Vergil cut away was, as you so rightly pointed out, the parts about himself that he fought to suppress, the parts that he perceived as his weaknesses and shortcomings. This included his human flesh and heart but it did not stop there; along with the dying human part of his body, he tossed out his fears and insecurities and the nightmares that kept torturing him. V and his familiars are a physical manifestation of everything Vergil hates about himself. They are what he blames for the many wrong turns his life has taken. V mentions that Vergil had been trying to outrun his fears and failures again and again and every time they caught back up to him, he would try to paint over them with a new layer of power only to fail again. And instead of facing those fears, Vergil rid himself of them entirely.
V on the other hand can’t run away from his shortcomings and fears, he is forced to think about them and to an extent even make his peace with them because if he doesn’t, he will die. And V is very afraid of dying. In fact, I’d say that he is so afraid of dying that his fears overshadow his every interaction with Nero, even every single thought about Nero and his possible relation to Vergil.
As stated in a previous post, I think that V knows on a very instinctual level who Nero is and rereading the manga convinced me even more that V at the very least suspects that Nero is his son. BUT! V refuses again and again and again to think of Nero as his son - or even his nephew. He acknowledges that Nero carries Sparda’s blood but only because that makes him a useful tool - and I realize how horrible this sounds. Every single time the subject of Nero is broached, V either gets quiet or deflects any musing about how exactly they are related by emphasizing that he simply uses all the tools he has been given to defeat Urizen - and Nero, along with Dante, is just a means to an end.
V, much like Vergil, is excellent at lying to himself.
And there are multiple examples of this exact pattern in the manga: V acknowledges that Nero is related to him but after riding out any feelings of sympathy or hope he immediately reminds himself - and Griffon - that Nero is just. a. tool. And I don’t think that this mindset stems from a source of malintent, I actually think it is a defense mechanism of sorts.
Because remember: V is dying. And he knows he is dying. Furthermore, the only interactions with family members that he really cares to remember involve members of his family dying, members of his family fighting him, members of his family abandoning, opposing, defeating or outright trying to kill him. Everything is just a haze of bittersweetness and suffering. And as V says, if anything he should keep his guard up around Nero because those who carry Sparda’s blood are doomed to fight to death. This is not some throwaway line that V says to sound edgy. This is an internalized belief; family does not support, family hurts and if V needs their help, then he has to use and manipulate them… and better not get attached. Because either they die or he dies and in both cases it would hurt more to have kept his family close instead of at an arm’s length.
That said, there are also multiple examples of V giving in and bonding with Nero: when he tells Nero about the playground and his house, for example. Or after the fight against Malphas when V acknowledges that Nero is genuinely there to help and save him - for the first time in forever V is being protected!
But even after that instance of bonding, V immediately tries to stomp down on the happiness and relief pooling within him and once again claims that Nero is a tool. (And kudos to Griffon for continuously calling V out on his BS.)
It’s like Nero makes V want to believe in family again. He wants to hope. But he is so afraid of being wrong, he’d rather keep his expectations low than allow himself to be purely happy that Nero helped him.
So, keeping all of this in mind, how would V react if his suspicions that Nero might be his son were confirmed by a conversation between Dante and Trish that V happened to overhear?
I feel like my answer might be super disappointing, but: I don’t think that V knowing for certain that Nero is his son would have changed the events as shown in the game and manga too much.
Nero being Vergil’s son was already a possibility that V openly acknowledged but also a fact that he robbed of its emotional importance again and again and again. On the outside, I don’t think V would show much of a reaction at all - maybe he would seem more distracted than usual to the observant eye. He would stay outwardly calm but become a complete mess on the inside. For one thing, I think he would have felt genuine remorse upon having the confirmation that he has a son whom he abandoned much like Vergil always felt like he had been abandoned by his family - he would not have wished his child to live through something similar that he himself experienced as a child. Griffon would 100% tease V about it, probably saying something along the lines of “I told you so!” - because he did - and “Shouldn’t you be happy?” - because objectively speaking, V should be happy. And I think that he might be, for a moment or two, and then he’d remind himself that he’s just using Nero to escape the unwelcome fate of dying.
I don’t think that V would openly confront Nero about this. I think he might watch Nero more closely, maybe even look for similarities (and be grudgingly happy about the fact that other than himself, Nero seems to be somewhat stable despite growing up without parents.) The more he’d feel death approach, the more he might be inclined to open up to Nero about things that he would want him to know about Vergil. I think that despite trying to keep his distance, V would want Nero to at least have heard Vergil’s name and I don’t think he would have wanted Nero to think of Urizen as an accurate representation of Vergil.
I don’t think there would be any prominent displays of affection because son or not, Nero is still a somewhat stranger for V. Attempts to bond with Nero would remain scarce (but heartfelt) as long as V felt certain death looming over him. I think he would want to apologize to Nero in a very roundabout way without directly acknowledging that Vergil is his father; for tearing off his arm, for not being the father Nero should have had, for not being able to be the father Nero still deserves to have, for not being honest - there are a lot of things V(ergil) did (or didn’t do) in regards to Nero that I think he genuinely regrets but would never voice aloud.
Remember, V is the manifestation of what Vergil hates about himself. He is not powerful, or truthful or even courageous. He is afraid and sentimental but also not immune to hopes and wishes and guilt. His feelings about Nero are very ambivalent because on the one hand he yearns for connections with the people who are (grudgingly) important to him (Dante, Nero, Eva and as a sort of stand-in for Eva even Trish) but he is too afraid of the potential backlash of allowing himself to care too deeply about anyone and anything.
Even after learning that Nero is his son, V would focus all of his thoughts and energy on surviving because that is what he has always done.
(And isn’t it quite sad? That Vergil thought the part of himself that never allowed him to just give up and die but forced him to go on and on and on even though going on meant more suffering, was a weakness and not something precious and beautiful?)
Still, at the very beginning of this very long post there is a page from the manga showing V as he wonders if even a single moment of his sorry existence would have made it worth it to wish for an eternity. And if nothing else, then I think that knowing for sure that Nero is his son, would have made that wish for eternity worth it.
I think that under different circumstances V would have loved to have a shot at becoming a person who was not only a part of but also welcome in Nero’s life. Under the circumstances he had to live through, however, I think that bonding with his son would have had a lower priority than ensuring his own survival.
A confirmation or deconfirmation of Nero being Vergil’s son would have not had too big of an impact because V simply could not afford to care too much with death so imminent for him.
(Hopefully, Vergil will use his newfound eternity to overcome his fears and inhibitions and dare to reach out to Nero and meet him halfway. Because while I think that the prospect of genuinely and openly caring about someone again still scares Vergil, it also means the world to him that there is someone who tries to care about him.)
(And with the threat of imminent death gone…)
(He has no reason to downplay any thoughts or emotions Nero’s existence might evoke in him. Nero is no longer a tool. He is allowed to care now, if he wishes to do so.)
Piggybacking off a previous post because @whitehairedanimeboyskillmesoftly left a note that I felt was so worth dicussing but might have derailed the other post about whether or not Nero knowing about his father pre-DMC5 would have had any impact on the events of DMC5:
I've honestly always wondered if anyone else thought that V had an inkling that nero is his (Vergil's) son! It's something I always thought he just pushed to the back of his mind since the whole blood sucking demon tree thing and coupled with the fact that he's dying.
The way I interpret some passages of VoV he is at least aware of the possibility of Nero being his and not Dante’s. He definitely knows that Nero is part of his family because Sparda’s kin can sense each other’s souls, which is in part how Dante knew that Nero is Vergil’s son.
However, Dante was so sure that Nero is Vergil’s because his soul felt very similar to Vergil’s. Which is kind of funny, because it implies that Dante knows what his own soul feels like and that it is different from Vergil’s, otherwise that would have been a very dumb assumption to make.
So, keeping that in mind, I think it is almost impossible that Vergil didn’t - at the very least subconsciously - know who Nero is even if he seems genuinely surprised towards the end of DMC5 when Dante tells him that Nero is his son because, well… if he didn’t know, wouldn’t that be like… a contradiction to the existing lore? As in, a plot hole? We all know that those don’t exist within DMC lore, right? :’D Oh well, who knows, maybe Dante really doesn’t know what his own soul feels like in comparison to Vergil’s and he was really just guessing correctly because unlike his brother he believes in birth control supremacy.
Anyways! Assuming that the lore from Deadly Fortune has not been retconned, Vergil should have been able to tell who Nero is but maybe he was kind of stressed out about the fact that he was dying? Still, a part of him should know. And I am actually pretty convinced that Griffon knows because he low key teases V about it.
And as you said, I think that he was kind of too preoccupied with not dying to spend too much time and energy thinking about the fact that a) Nero is his son, b) he unknowingly abandoned Nero, c) he introduced himself by dismembering his son, d) who, by the way, is a grown adult and he pretty much missed out on everything - oh, the guilt! the regret! the crushing feeling of not being able to cope with this information like an emotionally stable adult! So, yeah, better ignore it and not think about it too hard, future Vergil can deal with it.
I feel like V might have been Schrödinger’s dad - aware of the fact that Nero is likely his but so deep in denial, he really succeeded in making himself believe that Nero is Dante’s son - or at the very least not his, because as I said, his surprise seemed genuine when Dante told him that Nero is his son.
Every William Blake poem quoted in Devil May Cry 5
These have been double-checked to the best of my ability, but if anyone catches any mistakes, or any quotes I missed, do let me know! I had an absolute ball putting this together. Most are of course quoted by V, but Vergil gets a word in as well.
Prologue
“And it grew both day and night,
Till it bore an apple bright.”
-on-screen narration, quoting A Poison Tree
Mission 2
“I curse my stars in bitter grief and woe,
That made my love so high and me, so low.”
-V, quoting When early morn walks forth in sober grey
“Little wanderer, hie thee home!”
-V, quoting A Dream
Mission 4
“He who desires but act not, breeds pestilence.”
-V, quoting Proverbs of Hell
“As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible.”
-V, quoting Proverbs of Hell
“If the fool would persist in his folly, he would become wise.”
-V, quoting Proverbs of Hell
“The cut worm forgives the plow.”
-V, quoting Proverbs of Hell
Mission 5
“One thought fills immensity...”
-V, quoting Proverbs of Hell
“The hours of folly are measured by the clock, but of wisdom: no clock can measure.”
-V, quoting Proverbs of Hell
Mission 9
“I have no name; I am but two days old…”
-V, quoting Infant Joy
Mission 12
“…heavy chain, that does freeze my bones around!”
-Vergil, quoting Earth’s Answer
Mission 14
“But the following Contraries to these are True.”
-V, quoting The Voice of the Devil
Mission 17
“While thy branches mix with mine,
and our roots together join.”
-V, quoting Love and Harmony
Charging V's Devil Trigger
“To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.”
-V, quoting Auguries of Innocence
“The Angel that presided ‘oer my birth
Said: “Little creature formed of joy and mirth,
Go love without the help of any Thing on Earth.””
The second poster is finished 🫡 I gave Vergil a different action pose from the usual Judgment Cut, I really enjoy his gameplay because it almost looks like he's dancing with how graceful his swordmanship is,,, I envy his flexibility ngl 😭 ok enough yapping
look lady in red is cool n all and i would actually kill for her to be developed but. i dont think vergil liked her?? he didnt even know he had a son why would he have LOVED her... its too strong a word to throw at vergil of all people, especially considering where he was when nero wouldve been conceived (a late teen........)
in my heart it was a shitty one night stand (YOU THINK VERGIL CAN FUCK??), a short lived fling that ended bc vergil is the way he is, or worst case scenario (aka the one i like most) mundus fuckery and he had something to do with it.
elaboration on that last bit: in the novel there was a vergil clone running around, meaning mundus had access to vergils dna. what if something happened where he forced an heir to be produced for his own gain?
turnnoffyourmind
dededos
kianamaiart
tangentwithtanner
