hmmmm

hm

[theradicalresistance]

There are men out there who learn to see the signs of a girl or woman being vulnerable, sad, self-hating, self-harming, depressed, mentally ill, traumatized or submissive because of fear or socialization, because they know these girls and women aren’t likely to put up that much of a fight and defend themselves and therefore they consider them easy targets for manipulation, abuse, violence and sexual exploitation and coercion. “Why does she choose such bad men?” is such an irrelevant question. “Why doesn’t she just leave him?” is such an irrelevant question. The questions we should be asking is: “Why are these men drawn to women they can hurt?”, “Why do men seek out women only to hurt and abuse them?”, and “Why does he hurt her?”.

[mautlyn-deactivated20170727]

whoa yeah I’ve never really thought of it this way but mainstream (liberal) feminism really is about “learning to enjoy patriarchy” 

[tagtra]

How is that?

[mautlyn-deactivated20170727]

this might be difficult to explain from scratch so to speak but liberal feminism is essentially based on the idea that femininity is devalued and generally under attack. this is opposed to 2nd wave feminism (which is what most of my feminism is routed in) which states that women are under attack and femininity is an oppressive construct intended to keep women subordinate.

the idea that it’s femininity which is under attack implies that femininity is inherent to women, and that women are oppressed for our femininity. again, this is opposed to the idea that women are oppressed with femininity. 

this ends up leading to ideas like ‘masculine privilege’–butch women oppress & have power over feminine women, and butch women reject femininity due to internalized misogyny (since they’re supposedly rejecting their nature). I’ve actually been accused of the above by a liberal feminist. 

2nd wave feminism would state that “masculine privilege” doesn’t exist, because masculine women are still oppressed for being women under patriarchy and are punished in various ways for rejecting femininity (the tool meant to oppress them). only male privilege exists, and masculinity is only rewarded in males.

the foundation that mainstream/pop/liberal feminism has built itself on is why there’s a huge emphasis on ‘weaponized femininity’ (think ‘eyeliner so sharp it could kill a man’), enthusiastically embracing femininity, far more sex-positivity than sex-critical discussion (leading to ideas like “criticizing porn is anti-feminist”,  “criticizing bdsm is anti-feminist”, etc.), a general distrust of butch or gender non-conforming women (“trust no butch”), “feminist” articles about what type of lipsticks stay on best while giving blow-jobs (I’ve actually seen this), body-positivity that centers around ‘all body types can be beautiful’ rather than ‘women do not have to be beautiful and should not focus on it’, etc etc etc. I hope this was an ok summary even though I’ve really oversimplified the whole thing lol.

[spacemonkeyg78]

The people who rushed to argue against this in the comments JUST because it doesn’t take into consideration all the males who say they’re women who are hyper-performing male gaze ideas of femininity kind of provides another example to back up their thesis.

Males have found yet another way to weaponize femininity to further oppress the other half of the population.

[aristocat98-deactivated20220407]

I love it when TRAs talk about how radfems refuse to change and grow and open their eyes on what trans people and the movement really are like, and if I only wanted I would Understand how wrong and hateful I was being. dude. I was there. I lived as a trans man for 10 years. an entire decade. from 13 to 23, I know what real trans people are like. I know many of them are normies especially here in Eastern Europe, I know not all trans women are predatory. I know all of it. but, you know what else is “the truth”? that MtFs won’t stay in their lane. won’t listen. that they gaslight trans men about their own experiences with misogyny and womanhood, and speak over them. that they’re frequently misogynistic in trans spaces, harassing and preying on “afab” trans people. that the movement centers them, moreso white transbians, and is not equal. you know what else I know? that it hurts women. that trans people are 0,4% of population in my country, MtFs constituting maybe 0,1-0,3%, and yet for those 0,3% the West wants to sacrifice the achievements of feminists from XVIIIth century on and perhaps even earlier. that eventually, trans men are meant to be excluded from feminism, and serve as scapegoats - the worst men, since natal ones can always be “TMA” material. I was there! that’s why now I’m here and say those things. I don’t oppose transition, personally, but I saw that your movement is like from the inside, I saw the route it now pursues, IT NEEDS TO STOP. I experienced it firsthand. I saw MtFs talk down to FtMs about both manhood and womanhood. I saw them silence women talking about female reproductive biology. I see science denial! I see insane theories about “trans woman periods”. I see that many, no, not all, but many people who claim MtF are fetishists. I saw that those people want to be in vulnerable women’s spaces. I know for a fact some of them are aroused by it, how do I know which is the Real trans woman? I know the entire TMA/TME thing is just a way to say “female privilege”. I know because I’d been harassed for saying it. I used to believe in transmisogyny. I was there, I know, stop assuming I don’t know. I’m on radblr because I know. 

[aristocat98-deactivated20220407]

credit @heshefemme

[reallesbiann]

This is how the true crime vloggers are.

[aristocat98-deactivated20220407]

radical feminists will rightfully criticize liberals for selling stuff that only benefits men and plays into misogynistic expectations - like hookup culture or revealing clothing - as empowering for women. the same radical feminists will fawn over the "miracle" of pregnancy, birth, and motherhood, as if it wasn't exactly what the patriarchy has been exploiting women for (both offspring and reproductive labour) while selling it to us as special and empowering, as a purpose in life and source of happiness. while it took zero cost from them and extreme toll on our bodies and lives. the same feminists will praise the "magical ability to give life" as what grants women our unique value and the right to be respected as equals - over the fact that we're living, feeling, thinking humans with personhood. You Are Not Immune To (Conservative) Propaganda

[bitch-in-a-bag]

can we talk about how the LGBT movement has changed in the past 15 years?

in the light of the events surrounding Chris chan, and people prioritizing pronouns over the rape of a woman with dementia, I think it displays just how... different things are.

i personally feel like it's been co-opted by the more loud and entitled mtfs/ males/penis-havers/whatever pc term exists for the XY chromosome'd, who go too far and aren't reasonably kept in check. I think terf no longer has meaning anymore because it's just become a word we use to silence anyone that disagrees with a trans woman. immediately you're going to call me a terf, I accept that, but please continue reading. I may suprise you. calling someone who's transgender a terf is kinda messed up anyway, and that's exactly why im writing this.

I also think that everyone else (allies, ftms, etc) have followed suit because they've written this messed up narrative that EvErYoNe iS VaLiD. except for trans penis-havers, bc they're the most oppressed and the most valid, actually, regardless of their experiences.

I never used to believe the above because it was always written off as terf shit, and ignoring it kinda benefitted me, but between seeing ftms getting bashed for refusing to follow new "TME" rules as if they aren't trans too, and seeing outrage around Chris chans pronouns, I think it's time to start saying things that may make people uncomfortable. innocent people are already getting hurt by this, and we need to do better. it's time to get uncomfortable.

I want to remind you that perception is both the relying factor, and also the downfall of newer lgbt theory. if my profile were mtf coded, maybe it currently is, you'd call me a self hating trans and I wouldn't be that big of a deal. terfs would probably target me.

if my profile was ftm coded, I would be absolutely skewered for daring to speak out about these issues, even though they do actually affect ftms disproportionately. terfs would try to convince me that being trans is a plague and a mental illness, and to just ~be a cis woman~!

and if assumed cis, I would 100% be assumed radfem terf, and everything I say would immediately be dismissed because of the genuine damage terfs have done. but terfs would still probably flock to this post and berate me for daring to validate trans people At All, because to them, being transgender is a mental illness akin to an eating disorder, and "giving in" to it is "self harm". clearly I don't believe that, so hopefully you'll give me at least some benefit of the doubt.

so, does my identity matter? i have a feeling you'll say yes, because it gives us a good idea of experiences I do and don't have expertise in, and thus room to talk about. but I refuse to directly identify what I actually am because I want the focus of any resulting conversation to be my message and not my self identification. if you read between the lines and figure it out that's just fine, but I would like to be heard first and foremost.

my profile is thus an attempt at being cis female coded, somewhat out of comfort, and that is likely what I'll be assumed to be due to the beliefs I am expressing, even though there is a substantial risk of getting misgendered and dismissed, no matter what my birth sex may actually be. i will give you a hint about my identity: I am transgender, on HRT and everything, and I have been personally affected by all of this. rest assured, this is well within my lane to speak about, and it does matter if you misgender me.

I want you to really think about that. before you respond, really think about if someone saying words on tumblr, talking about their OWN experiences and their take on recent history that applies to themself, really more worthy of being misgendered and harassed than... someone who said they transitioned so they could date lesbians, and then raped their own mother with dementia.

is that fair or just? or is this just a new way of letting people with penises do whatever they want? I personally think it's the latter. we need to hold people like Chris chan accountable without getting caught up on something as minor **in comparison** as misgendering and self identification. Is it sad and confusing that someone who self IDs as transgender became 1:1 with the most dangerous stereotypes that exist for trans women? Of course it is. But it doesn't mean that self identification is suddenly more important than a literal crime being committed.

I would normally dismiss it as a fluke or outright trolling if the evidence weren't so damning that this is in fact a real event that happened. If I hadn't seen this happen to other people, and if I didn't literally know another mtf person who used their dysphoria as an excuse for date rape on multiple occasions and never got any consequences for it.

It's not a one time thing, it's a developing problem that we need to stop before more people have their lives ruined. I can't even imagine how traumatizing and messed up it is for an FTM person to be date raped, by another transgender person no less. When I, an abuse survivor, told people of this MTFs red flags, people violently silenced me. People who didn't know I was trans called me a terf and transphobic. We, as a community, could've protected someone from getting date raped, and we didn't. Trans women can be awful, horrible fucking people, because they are people. Protecting them at all costs is wrong. Protecting them from transphobia is what we should be doing.

That being said, misgendering is still skeevy, and I haven't done anything like raped a disabled woman who is no longer able to consent, or date raped my own partner. if you give a shit about respecting my identity, please use they/them for me. if not, use visual perception and make assumptions that will most likely be incorrect, skew your own argument, and put me on the same level as a rapist, and arguably a fetishist. And I do need to remind you that calling someone transgender a rapist and a fetishist without evidence is still definitely classic transphobia, to the letter, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't do that.

as someone who is same sex attracted, I also want to bring this up as well.

in the US in the past 15 years, the movement as a whole pretty much went "YEAH BORN THIS WAY" with Lady Gaga, and then jumped ship to prioritize mostly mtfs at every angle. do mtfs need support? absolutely. but they don't need misguided toxic positivity, and that's what it's turned into.

it's gotten genuinely homophobic to the point where actually homosexual people are constantly being erased and demonized via "genital preferences are a fetish uwu", and vulva havers, especially the trans ones, are constantly being told to shut up about their experiences.

as much as you want to deny bioessentialism, its still very much well and alive with newer trans movement sentiments when we classify ftms as not worthy of speaking about their own issues with terms like "TME". it's also incredibly ignorant towards FTMs who pass, but dress feminine for comfort, and get mistaken for MTF, and treated like garbage because of it. They are not remotely exempt from misogyny, transphobia, or the intersection of the two, and it is not anyone's job to tell them they don't ever experience that when they do. Turning ftms and biological homosexuals into our enemies-- especially when the actual cause is transphobia and harmful gender stereotypes-- does nothing good or healthy for our movement.

Dont be mistaken, though, passing isn't the focus or end all be all here, it's the perception of others that ends up drastically effecting your experiences. There are words like misogyny that imply treatment via birth sex, however this too can be reliant on external perception. If an MTF individual either transitions very young, has an abundance of resources to transition, or just gets lucky and passes well, chances are she will experience a lot more misogyny than people may give credit to. inversely, someone who just started questioning yesterday, but lived as a male their whole life up until then, they genuinely cannot speak about misogyny with that much room because they simply haven't experienced it at an accurate enough angle or for enough time to understand it as a repeated and sociological force.

It works the other way as well, though; someone who's known that they're trans for a long time and haven't had the resources to transition, or do not or cannot pass in the eyes of society; these people suffer pain that we don't neccesarily have a word for yet, imo. It makes dysphoria worse and it makes living seem hopeless. And as a community, we deal with this is in a really messed up way by over-validating them instead of solving the core issue at hand. and people who suffer from this, but also acknowledge they can't claim what they haven't experienced, are left with nowhere to go.

And its important to acknowledge these things because they're integral to the over-encompassing trans experience. Instead of lying to everyone and telling everyone they pass/giving out unconditional positive regard, our focus should be making it so that it **doesn't matter if you pass**. that you're still worth respect and dignity if you're transgender, no matter what passing is or what it means to you, and no matter how you present. But also, if you do something awful, you still need to be held accountable, especially if you use yourself, your body, or your trans status to contribute to other axi of oppression.

Transphobia is a word that encompasses and addresses all of that, regardless of birth sex. "TME" shuts that down in favor of only letting MTF's speak. Which is still very bio-essentialist, and I can't help but feel like we've gone full circle.

Once upon a time you couldn't even get married if your partner had the same genitals as you. in the US, this was less than 7 years ago. and if you care about human rights activism, you know damn well that legal modification is not the end all be all. people who are genuinely homosexual are still oppressed, but the trans movement has started stepping on them to make ground we don't deserve. homosexuals are ok and valid. it's not a genital preference, and the prescence of trans people doesn't make conversion therapy sentiments ok, ever.

we've gone full circle, and it's not right.

[sickofeverythingmale2]

@radicallyfemal3 unsurprising but op blocked me so I’ll respond here.

I am one of the people who hate trans people. I may not “violently hate” whatever that means but there’s nothing wrong with hating a group of people that hurts you.

There’s a difference between having dysphoria and being transgender. You cannot claim the label of transgender and also be a radfem/gender critical. We have certain tenants to this feminism that must be followed, otherwise yes you are excluded and do not meet the criteria. Would you also say that someone who calls themself trans gay is completely fine and not homophobic? Or is it yet again trans people who get a by on this? Can you be pro life and be a radfem? Watch porn and be a radfem? No? The trans label is ALWAYS harmful and not compatible with radical feminism. Don’t be stupid.

[ma1efique]

I didn't block you....

But I find it interesting that you so passionately call other women stupid just because they acknowledge the existence of something. Get over yourself. Trans men are still women. Women can still suffer from gender dysphoria and radical feminism is not exclusionary of any female under any circumstances. Transgender is not inherently harmful as it is simply a mental disorder. Those who suffer from gender dysphoria are simply that; sufferers of a mental condition. The ideology pretty much REJECTS the notion of the mental condition in the first place. And that's why it's so fucking harmful. We must support those women who suffer from gender dysphoria. Gender ideology is the problem and if you were truly interested in female liberation instead of policing which type of female can and can't call themselves a radical feminist you would embrace those women who feel as though they need to live as men to ease their suffering. Its a cruel fucking world, and the last thing radfems need to be doing is eating ourselves alive. Its people like you who give radical feminism a foul name. Trans men are not inherently gender ideologues. And the radical feminist trans men I know simply choose to live as trans men because their dysphoria is unbearable. End of. They are still female, they are still included. It seems you actually might hate trans people legitimately, rather than just anti- gender ideology. In that case I really don't have time to engage with people who legitimately are bigoted against gender non conforming people. Your lack of nuance astounds me. Two things are capable of being true at once. Gender ideology can still be harmful as gender dysphoric people can still reject the ideology. Its in radfems best interest to include transmen and continue to fight for their rights as female people. Otherwise we truly are just bigoted. Trans men are still female, to exclude them is against the very principles of radical feminism which is to liberate ALL WOMEN.

My goal isn't to eliminate trans people, it's to free women. Its to support all women regardless of our differences. Plently of detranstioners are radical feminist? Can they not be radfems? Since many often still pass as male and have a certain level of male privilege because of this? Are they not female enough?

[sickofeverythingmale2]

Lmao op means original poster. So I’m referring to the original poster of that post not you. But anyway. It interests me that you didn’t answer any of my questions. I’ll answer yours though cause I know how a discussion works.

Obviously detransitioners can be radfems. Because even though they might have once claimed the trans label, they don’t anymore for one reason or another. Women who pass or look like men can obviously be radfems lol. You don’t have to look a certain way to be a radfem. I never said that any of these women are less female than the other 🤣

If you want this discussion to continue, answer my questions instead of avoiding them like a TRA 🤧

[ma1efique]

Because your questions are irrelevant and I assumed they were rhetorical. Porn and pro life actively kill and harm women. Gender dysphoria is just a mental illness. What your saying is that a trans man can't be a radfem because transgender (a mental illness) is contradictory to radfem. Again, transgender is not in itself contradictory, gender ideology is what is contradictory as it dismantles the idea of male and female. Many trans men radfems acknowledge they are still women but suffer from a mental illness. Those women deserve to be included. Many MANY radfems are happy to accept TIFs. The issue radfem has is with gender ideology and the push to allow male people to get away with blatant misogyny, violence against women and the ability to reduce womanhood to a set of stereotypes all while invading our spaces, redefining our existence and perpetuating homophobia. Thats the issue. There are quite literally trans people who are gender critical. Trans people aren't inherently TRAs? So to me it sounds like you actually do just hate trans people because they are gender non conforming? Because once again you are conflating ideology with actually people. You know most TRAs are "cis" right? Which by your logic cis people are also dangerous to women because many are TRAs? It doesn't make sense what you're saying. You can't pick and choose who is in and who is out. Once again, being a trans man doesn't make you a goddamn man? So I don't understand what the big deal is? So what? they have gender dysphoria and are just trying to get by. I quite literally do no know what you are arguing against? Female is a female is a female.

Besides, we are not going to see eye to eye. I am going to continue to include trans men as apart of radfem because they are actively affected by misogyny and have female bodies. Exclude them if you will but know that many many radfems disagree with you.

[sickofeverythingmale2]

Oh no! You missed a very important question! Can a person call themselves trans gay and not be homophobic? What about trans disabled? You think that men and women calling themselves trans women and men aren’t misogynistic so does it apply to everything else?

[ma1efique]

Ah okay so yea you just hate GNC people lmao. Yes I think transmen calling themselves gay isn't... well it isn't homophobia in a classic sense but its certainly fucking fetishization and plain wrong. And I believe all men are inherently misogynistic to some degree, which includes transwomen. Transwomen act no better then "cis" men.... because they are men. So im not sure what you're getting at other than proving the fact your argument is falling apart rapidly. Also my url is a reference to what TRAs and incels call women.... obviously....

You've spent so much time trying to take me down... over literally nothing. Because I don't believe all trans people are a danger to women because they aren't. Trans people existed before gender ideology.... notice how our rights only started to get fucked with by trans activists once gender ideology gained popularity 🤔🤔🤔 hmmm its almost like gender dysphoric people aren't the problem 🤔🤔🤔 it's almost like the ideology that many perpetrate is 🤔🤔 wow... who would've thought.

[sickofeverythingmale2]

Holy shit people who aren’t gay calling themselves trans gay isn’t homophobia??? Oh my god? Hello? How are you on radblr 😭😭 I think you need to peak a little more before lecturing me on radical feminism

I am a GNC woman. I don’t hate GNC people one bit. But you’re so defensive of trans people that you won’t believe me

[ma1efique]

Bro i said its not homophobia in the classic sense because its not, I never said it wasn't homophobia but its definitely also in line with hyper fetishization too. Also have you been through my account? Lmao.... im clearly a radical feminist like we deadass reblog the same shit. Stop trying to act so goddamn pious. Literally plenty of radical feminists agree that trans men should be included... I mean that's where the whole "MERF" thing came from..... you know... that we should call ourself "male exclusionary radical feminists" because we don't exclude all trans people? Only the male ones.... yea... also I have been in no way "defensive" of trans people. I just blatantly disagree that trans men can't be radfems that's it. Let's just stop this back and forth cause we aren't getting anywhere. All you wanna do it patronise me and I just want to move on with my life. And I can throw it back to you on that. I think you need to spend some more time on radblr before deciding to insult and talk down to other women because you have a different opinion. If you don't think trans men can be radfems that's fine, but you don't have to be condescending about it. Like I really don't appreciate it.

[sickofeverythingmale2]

Well you turn up an interesting point now that we do agree that people calling themselves trans gay is in fact homophobic. Now I wonder if you think that people calling themselves trans men and women is misogynistic?

[ma1efique]

Its not misogynistic. Its inaccurate. What is misogynistic is when trans women call themselves biological women or claim that they are superior to "cis" women. I only use trans women and trans men out of habit.

[womenarehuman]

It is DEFINITELY (internalised) misogyny when a woman thinks "hey I'm not like other girls, I'm good at math, I want autonomy, respect, and I like "boy" things so that makes me definitely not a woman!" 🙄 It's definitely misogyny.

[ma1efique]

Yes that is misogyny, but I think you're conflating that with the act of simply being trans. Being a trans man isn't just internalised misogyny, I mean come here people there is a mental illness behind it. Gender dysphoria. You can argue internalised misogyny plays a role in gender dysphoria and I would agree. But im not disputing the nuances of what makes trans men feel discontent with being female. I was asked if its misogynistic for TIFs and TIMs to call themselves "transwomen" and "transmen" and no, that on its own isn't misogynistic, it's just a purposefully inaccurate description.

[womenarehuman]

I disagree, it's not accurate at all. Feelings don't make you the opposite sex. TIF's are women. TIMs are men. And "trans" is a misnomer, it means nothing, it's a meaningless label. You can't switch sexes. A man dressing an acting as a woman is still a full-on man. And a woman dressing up as a man is still a full-on woman. Regardless of clothes, or delusions, or plastic surgery.

And all of it is misogynist. TIMs make a mockery of womanhood. And TIFs are in denial that women can be complex, multi-faceted human beings. Misogyny.

[ma1efique]

I never said you can change sex.... look again you are drastically misinterpreting what im saying. This isn't about gender ideology okay, I don't need you to explain gender crit 101 to me im not TRA I get it. Literally my only point, is that gender dysphoria is also a legitimate illness and reducing every trans person down to misogynistic is fallacious and doesn't help our cause. Yes there are plenty of trans people who are horrifically misogynistic, yes gender ideology is misogynistic, I get it.

[womenarehuman]

But it's all still BASED on misogyny. Whether they're aware of it or not.

[ma1efique]

So... gender dysphoria... the mental illness is based on misogyny. That's blatantly untrue. Gender dysphoria can often occur from many different things, trauma, eating disorders, sexual assault, general mental illnesses. There is no evidence to suggest gender dysphoria is purely the result of misogyny as a whole. For some absolutely, but it is a recognised mental illness and we ought to consider that

[womenarehuman]

Body dysphoria/dysmorphia and gender dysphoria are two different things. One is legitimate, one is based in misogyny. Gender isn't real so you can't really be dysphoric about something that doesn't exist. It's a person not liking living life according to gender roles and the part their bodies play in that, it's all made up, and yes, based in misogyny. It's a delusion based on fantasy and should be treated as such.

The majority of males with "dysphoria" actually have a woman fetish (autogynophilia). Misogyny.

The majority of females with "dysphoria" are hurting from the expectations put on women and want to escape womanhood because they don't fit into the tiny box society puts women in. So they think they can identify out of being a woman. Misogyny.

The whole idea of being trans is misogyny.

[ma1efique]

Well I agree that many of the straight male "trans women" are AGP. Absolutely. But then what about the gay men? What about those gay men who suffer from extreme dysphoria and feel that the only way they can reduce their suffering is to present feminine? Now does that make them women? No. Is the stereotypes they have to engage with based on oppressed gender roles? Yes. But they are suffering from a mental condition and their desire to be a woman isn't out of a sexual desire for themselves as women.

Now if you wanna say that's a result of internalised homophobia, I would absolutely agree that plays a massive part. But we cannot deny the existence of gender dysphoria as a mental illness. Literally paraplegic dysphoria or whatever is recognised as a legitimate mental illness. People are very very strange. Okay sometimes fuck ups happen in the brain and your brain starts causing you distress over something completely irrelevant. It is what it is. Gender ideology is absolutely misogynistic, and hell it dosent even SEE gender dysphoria as valid anymore. I don't believe in gender no, but I believe that there are people in the world who do feel distress because of the sex they were born as. For the same reason I believe there are people in the world who feel distress because they weren't born a paraplegic. I really don't know what this conversation is about. We are agreeing more than anything? I haven't said anything that suggests I dont agree with you on literally everything else other than the fact that gender dysphoria is a legitimate psychological illness.

[womenarehuman]

Well just like if someone was suffering from a delusion that they're another race, it should be seen as offensive, because it is. And if we coddle these offensive delusions, it will just make things worse. As for gay men, they're much less likely to believe they are literal women. I've walked along side transexuals at pride and they dressed as women, but never crossed the line in women's spaces. The old school gay transexuals are just men who like to live their truth and usually don't force others to validate them. The new trans trend is what I'm talking about, mostly het men, and it's outrageously offensive.

And yeah, it's a mental illness, that doesn't magically make their misogyny valid. They need serious mental health care and cognitive behavioural therapy to lessen the dysphoria. No other mental illness gets a pass like this, and neither should this.

And while we are on the subject of legitimate mental illnesses, I'd say the VAST majority of trans identified people aren't actually dysphoric, there has been as exponential boom in trans people in just the last 5 years. It's a social contagion more than anything, and since >90% of TIMs almost keep their penises and the vast majority of TIFs don't get SRS either (mastectomies not included here), and many want to carry their own children. These are things people with real dysphoria wouldn't even consider. It's a fad for most, and for those with true gender dysphoria, coddling their delusions isn't going to help.

[communalbong-deactivated2022101]

Okay but how is saying ftms can be radfems coddling their dysphoria (not that you said it was, its just that what you are arguing about @womenarehuman is kind of way different from the original point of this post)?

Any afab trans person who is invested in (second wave) feminist activism is obviously not in denial about their sex. I agree with you about the fact that the majority of TIFs don't identify as trans because they Actually have dysphoria, but your response begs the question, what about the trans men who ARENT in that minority? You already acknowledged they exist, and tbh I think the Minority of afab trans people should be the real focus of this conversation, since all of us would be in agreement about the fact that the MAJORITY of trans-identifying females are NOT invested or even interested in radical feminism, so they're beliefs shouldn't be conflated with the beliefs of TIFs who study and/or support radical feminism. What do trans people who don't identify or do any consciousness-raising for radical feminism have to do with gender critical TIFs?

Moving on, I think @breederwh0re keeps generalizing dysphoric people too much. Not all dysphoric radfems/gender crits are trans. Some are detrans, some reidentified, and some are dysphoric but have decided not to transition. Sickofeverythingmale2 has already stated that she has no problem with unbegendered dysphoric women labeling themselves as radfems/gender critical. Although she isn't the final arbiter of who is or who is not a radical feminist anyways, so idk why you would get so fixated on trying to get her to accept trans men as radfems in the first place.

The bottom line is that there already are (and there will continue to be) trans men who hit peak trans and become gender critical, but feel too entrenched in their dysphoria or their transition to reidentify right away. So gender critical and rad-identifying trans men do exist, regardless of whether or not cis women think its possible.

With that in mind, I do think if you identify as trans, even if you strongly disagree with gender ideology, you are in some way capitalizing off of the misogyny that the trans ideology spreads through the public sphere. So while I dont think you need to perform 100% feminist actions in every facet of your life in order to label yourself as a feminist, I do think it makes sense why some radfems dont accept that begendered people can be gender critical (although personally I think trans men are perfectly capable of being both gender critical and radical feminists). Its similar to the way certain radfems dont believe you can truly be a feminist if you aren't willing to give up makeup/cosmetic surgery in your personal life.

[womenarehuman]

@communalbong Because it's hypocrisy of the highest order. RadFems are against gender stereotypes and everything related to them, and a TIF is the living embodiment of a stereotype. "I'm masculine and like guy stuff, so I'm not going to call myself a woman anymore!" It's ridiculous, misogynistic, and counter-productive to radical feminist theory.

[communalbong-deactivated2022101]

You are strawmanning ftms. Plenty of FTMs do act like the caricature you paint them out to be, but I have NEVER seen a gender critical ftm say that they are a guy because they like masculine things. We are not talking about ftms who are TRAs. No gender critical trans man believes that they are or ever have been a man. We can argue the ethics of how feminist you really are if you are trying to benefit from a misogynistic ideology by using it to escape from misogyny (which doesn't work)/cope with your own mental issues, but that is not what You have been saying at all.

You have been stereotyping all trans people as regressive misogynists who think that women look n act like walking sex dolls. But it is literally antithetical to radical feminist beliefs to view women as anything other than female human beings, so idk how you have deluded yourself into thinking that the trans men who are gender critical are the same trans men that think they are actually male because of our internal gender feels. There is a big ideological difference.

[womenarehuman]

Ok, so explain to me why a woman would identify as a man that doesn't include misogyny or stereotypes. I'll wait.

[communalbong-deactivated2022101]

Okay well I have a mental illness that causes me extreme distress towards my body, distress that manifests itself through targeted physical violence towards specifically the sex-specificic parts of my body. And this distress manifested when I was a child, before puberty and before I had the language to name or even fully understand the complex trauma that women are put through for their bodies.

Sure, you can look me in the eyes and tell me that that sex-specific hatred is misogyny, and I won't disagree with you. But I dont want to be male. I identify as trans because when I first came out (as a Child, at age 13) that was the ONLY way I knew how to feasibly cope with my dysphoria, and even though I have since peaked and don't believe I experience dysphoria because I was supposed to be male, I still do not have the strength to reidentify as a woman. I have so little control over how my dysphoria effects me, and the feeble claim to mental stability that the ftm label gives me over my dysphoria is all I have.

That's why I identify as trans, and while I cant speak for other gender critical trans people, I'm SURE others can relate to me. My decision to identify as trans has nothing to do with my perception of other women and everything to do with my unstable and extremely negative perception of myself. For you to assume that trans men Only identify that way because they genuinely believe they are different from 'cis' women blinds you to the insight that dysphoric women can provide as to what pushes little girls to feel the need to try and identify out of womanhood in the first place. I truly think you would get a better understanding of how misogyny shapes female-specific dysphoria if you stopped viewing all afab trans people as a monolith only capable of viewing the world through misogynistic stereotypes.

[womenarehuman]

You think you were "supposed to be man"?? And you think you can identify out of female oppression? Not calling yourself a woman doesn't change that you ARE. TIFs have the exact same victim rates as all other women, your label changed nothing. You are literally just lying to yourself, and you seem to be aware of that, which just makes it more strange. You see being a woman as wrong, you think you can just ID it away. You can be a butch woman, a masculine woman, a tomboy, but you'll never not be a woman. Like I said. MISOGYNY.

[communalbong-deactivated2022101]

Lol where in my message did I ever say it as supposed to be a man. Or that I couldn't be a masculine woman. I literally AM a masc woman. I literally have stated during this thread, with You, that it is impossible to identify out of oppression. Are you even reading my messages?

[womenarehuman]

I reread and realized my I misread that part my bad, HOWEVER... You call yourself ftm, female to male, yet you admit you're a woman? You are in no way male. You don't even believe your own bullshit. It's all mental gymnastics. All women dislike their bodies, because we are actively taught to, your experience is the norm for women, yet you think your ftm because you fell for a trend and you are literally willingly deluding yourself. This is absolutely the result of rapant internalised misogyny. You should be blaming society and men, but instead you put the onus on yourself.

[bitch-in-a-bag]

it's so fucking painful how much of a brick wall you're being oh my god. I don't wanna deal with your behavior cuz it's super reminiscent of male sealioning, homophobia, misogyny, etc. and I'm too traumatized to deal with that shit today via text, so I'm blocking you after this. but this needs to be said cuz im not even 100% decided in my stances and I can see how misguided this all is

aight so first off. some of the shit you're saying is insanely offensive to masc and butch women. you desperately need to reexamine where your radfem theory comes from bc holy shit. how are you gender crit but so hateful of women who don't follow gender enforced stereotypes? it's driving me mad.

also 1.5; "females first" but you literally use people not getting SRS as proof in ur argument... have you seen SRS??? don't answer that it's rhetorical and don't google it if ur a minor. but you straight up just want females to mutilate themselves to prove that transgenderism is legit? that's super fucked. even if that's not your point you shouldn't even bring that up. but I have the feeling ur the type of person who thinks trans is so bad that they deserve to be mutilated. thinking any female deserves to be genitally mutilated ain't radfem.

second literally nowhere did any ftm here claim that they're male, should be male, etc. if you believe that you cannot change your sex, then why are the female transes such a threat to you? why can't they be radfem? they are licherally female. obvs moids are always a threat, but I can't understand how you have so much hate for other females. ftm is a label is indicate a transition direction, it's a word for females that willingly take testosterone to adapt masculine secondary sex characteristics. there are a lot of delusional ones out there that genuinely believe they can become male, but typically if an ftm is radfem and gendercrit then they know they're not male.

now if we wanna get nuanced we can talk about how testosterone can make it easy for a female to male larp, and how that effects their experiences as a female, and how it weirdly skews privelege. that's definitely valid. but you never bring that up and it's wild!!!

it's probably because you drastically misunderstand dysphoria. dysphoria is not "I like stereotypically male things, that means I should've been a male!", it's "these body parts are causing me acute distress no matter how badly I try to seperate them from the concept of gender". while the transgender community fucks this up a lot, there are still a Lot of actually dysphoric people out there (transmeds I believe they call themselves) that are genuinely feminist but still cannot reconcile with their bodies no matter how much therapy they go through. because while it is a mental illness, it is not comparable an eating disorder. it's not a delusion, and it's treatable. so why would you want other females to needlessly suffer when they can just gain masculine secondary sex characteristics and live fuller and healthier lives?

also, if we're going to talk about females with masculine secondary sex characteristics or women who willingly choose to appear masculine, we also need to include intersex women, women with pcos, butch women who get mistaken as male, desisters/detransitioners, and naturally masculine women in that conversation, because they fall into that category. and with your viewpoints, it genuinely seems like that would get homophobic, misogynistic, and body shamey real fast. and you need to examine that because that's very much so not radfem at all.

telling naturally masculine women to modify their bodies and self conception to stop being masculine supports misogyny and the male gaze and you desperately need to examine that. and yes ftms count as naturally masculine women because most of the visual effects of testosterone is not reversible even if they stop taking it. and there is quite literally nothing wrong with a woman modifying her body and/or social perception in ways that genuinely make her more comfortable and happy, even if that makes others perceive her as masculine or male. if you have an issue with that I need you to tell me immediately your issue with the history of butch lesbians, cuz im not ready to deal with that much homophobia this early in the morning.

2.5; an ftm can call themself gay if they're like. yknow, a lesbian. that's 100% their territory. because they are actually gay. those people are also usually targeted by gendies that keep trying to tell them they're "straight men" for being dysphoric. which is incredibly homophobic, especially for lesbian ftms who have been thru the hells of conversion therapy. if anything it makes sense they dont want to have anything to do with the male gaze. lesbians shouldn't be subjected to the male gaze in the first place. and that's even more nuance that you're 100% losing by painting all transes with such a wide brush.

the thing that confuses me the most about your argument is how mad you are at ftms when you quite literally outright admit that they are also victims of misogyny with a mental illness. as a radfem you know how cruel and disgusting this world is, and how little support women with mental illnesses get in the first place. youre missing the forest for the trees. further alienating women that have already been alienated so hard they feel the need to identify out of their womanhood doesn't actually fix anything. it makes it much worse and it deprives questioning ftms of a safer place devoid of misogyny to grow and develop properly, thus pushing them further into trans ideology because that's all that pretty much exists for them in terms of community and belonging. which is a primary human need that all women deserve to have fulfilled.

anyway that's my Ted talk for today I won't be here all week because this website makes me feel ill more often than not. cya

[rinlanddess]

Link ~~~

[radariant]

How do I get money to get commissions

I hear the Fighter’s Guild is recruiting. Not a bad way to make some money… if you’ve got the stones for it…

[lily-orchard]

How do you debate kink stuff not being good to have a pride parades without coming off as homophobic?

You remember that being gay and being kinky are not the same thing.

[lily-orchard]

Regarding bondage at pride events someone said “ Homophobes are going to hate gay people whether or not they emphasize it or celebrate their fetish. You shouldn't have to change your lifestyle to please people who will hate you regardless.” Is this a position that should be taken in regard to parades?

It's not about pleasing homophobes. It's about not behaving like an animal around other LGBT people because kids and teens deserve to be at Pride too

Nobody's asking you to change your lifestyle. They're asking you to be responsible and considerate for the first time on your life.

[bitch-in-a-bag]

fucking preach

[politijohn]

“BLM” -Hurricane Laura

[magicalchicken]

To blms who go and break historical statues - stop fucking the culture.

[bitch-in-a-bag]

sorry buddy but nature says "go get fucked", I dont make the rules :)

[dyscomancer]

homestuck^2 writers be like "hey what if it just fucking SUCKED"

[jadebot-deactivated20200601]

i can forgive jade ofc, but rose lied to her wife, her brother, and kept a child from knowing her family. rose cheated on her wife and got pregnant and did not tell her. she raised a child in secret for 15 years, likely kept that child isolated and out of touch from reality. that is so ridiculously ooc for rose it's not even funny.

[teamnowalls-deactivated20180918]

the energy this has is immense and horrifying 

[rico-bear]

🐸

[oldnyadchild-deactivated2018031]