When Ruffnut started yelling at Astrid and saying Astrid had no respect for her, Tuff, Snotlout, or Fishlegs; do you think what Ruff said was true? Do you think Astrid really has respect towards the Twins, Snotlout and Fishlegs?
Though these two questions are slightly different, since they’re on the same topic, I’m going to tackle them together! In this response, I’ll begin with first summarizing the positions and context of the conflict between Ruffnut and Astrid, and then giving my perspective on why Ruffnut had a very true, legitimate reason to criticize Astrid as she did.
Bear with me, guys. This scene is FREAKING AMAZING JAW-DROPPING CHARACTER DEPTH and I feel the mighty need to say a LOT.
Overviewing the Different Sides of the Argument
The argument between Ruffnut and Astrid doesn’t necessarily have a “right” or a “wrong” side. In my perspective, Ruffnut and Astrid’s positions are equally defensible and understandable. Astrid has good reason to criticize Ruffnut… but Ruffnut has just as much reason to harp on Astrid.
At the start of “Edge of Disaster Part 1,” two different sets of values come into conflict. On one side, there is Astrid’s value system. As you say, Astrid is a warrior at heart, someone who believes in discipline and duty. The twins hold different values more centered on companionship, humor, and making each day enjoyable.
By and large, neither perspective is objectively bad. In fact, both perspectives have notable pros and cons. For consider:
Astrid’s over-rigid perspective can make her fierce, tunnel-visioned, and hostile when she doesn’t need to be. She becomes more easily stressed, agitated, and angered. It is this sort of attitude that made Astrid so hostile to Hiccup in HTTYD. Not precisely a good thing.The twins have learned how to live life much freer from worry, and to be able to legitimately enjoy one another’s company. They can make jokes that bypass insults, take the optimistic side of situations, and not become disheartened when situations don’t go as they want. Without being so tunnel-visioned on one set, rigid, disciplined path, they open their minds up to creativity and some really unique and beneficial ideas.
Ruffnut and Tuffnut’s loose perspective has the problems that you pointed out: they turn out to be slackers, cause destruction and havoc in camp, and can seem uncaring to others.Astrid’s position is much more productive, much more reliable, and much more consistently qualitatively good, than what these two twins do. The twins are unreliable, whereas Astrid’s sturdy ground makes for a dependable warrior.
Both life perspectives honestly have considerable merit. Ruffnut and Tuffnut’s values just happen to greatly differ from Astrid’s values. What happens when Ruffnut clashes with Astrid, then, is the clashing of the two philosophies.
(This is only resolved at the end of the second episode when Astrid sees Tuffnut’s creativity can chase off dragon hunters).
Setting the Scene for the Argument
The context of the argument brings many interesting facts to mind.
First, Hiccup chooses to leave Tuffnut, Ruffnut, and Astrid on the island together. He asks that the three of them hold down Dragon’s Edge. Astrid immediately protests, “You are not leaving me with these two muttonheads,” to which Tuffnut responds, “She knows we’re standing right here, right?” Not a minute later, she bemoans that this must be the worst day of her life, and begs for Hiccup to not leave her with the two twins. Before she can give the twins an insult, Tuffnut and Ruffnut cheerily hop in, feeding her with words like “simpletons” or “dimwits” that she could use to insult them. Astrid uses this as proof that the twins are ridiculous. Tuffnut points out, still pretty good-naturedly considering context, “Hey, it’s not like we woke up this morning hoping to spend twenty-four seven with you, either, Astrid. I mean, you are not exactly a picnic. And you think you know what I’m saying. You have not ever been a blanket on a grassy knoll with delicious food. But, we are team players. We will do what is necessary for the good of the group.”
This is already a whole lot of information we need to dissect. First off, Astrid is the one who begins the conflict. She is the one who protests at being left behind with the twins; the Thorstons do not voice any immediate complaint being left with Astrid. However, when Astrid does protest at being left with them, Tuffnut points out to her that she’s being rude three times:
“She knows we’re standing right here, right?” he asks. This is an indirect protest to being called a muttonhead. This is an indirect protest to Astrid saying she doesn’t want to be left on the island with them. Astrid has opened up the conversation with insults, and Tuffnut is bringing to attention that fact: Astrid is saying some rude things right to their faces. Yet even though he points that out, Astrid continues to demean the twins by complaining about them to Hiccup - in the Thorstons’ full hearing.
Tuffnut starts feeding insults Astrid could use. He knows that Astrid is about to use some sort of insulting noun to describe the twins, so instead of letting her say it, he jumps in and gives her suggestions. It’s a tongue-in-cheek way of disarming rudeness. He and Ruffnut turn her negative complaints around into an uplifting and ridiculous conversation about “wits that dim.” If you think about it, this is actually quite the socially tactful strategy. The twins are disarming her insults by making the conversation their own and adopting the rude descriptors themselves.To give an example comparison, the LGBTQIAA community adopted the word “queer.” It was originally meant to be rude, but “queer” became a self-identifier for the group of people, and the insult lost its sting. The twins are doing the same tactic here: they’re finding a way to handle the insults without letting anything bother them. Pretty great social maneuvering, isn’t it? Seriously, these guys aren’t stupid. It might sound stupid to Hiccup and Astrid, but what the Thorstons do here is wicked smart.
When Tuffnut says, “You are not exactly a picnic,” he actually means that Astrid isn’t fun to be around. After Astrid has insulted the twins repeatedly, Tuffnut finally speaks something more bluntly. He doesn’t enter the conversation rudely right away. In fact, when he does finally admit that Astrid isn’t a great companion, he softens the blow. He speaks the constructive criticism more nicely than she does; he talks to her in a tone suggesting rapport, relating to her frustration, rather than whining back in her face. Then he softens his criticism about her “not being a picnic” further by making a joke at the end of it. He goes from saying some pretty serious, straightforward stuff - “It’s not like we woke up this morning hoping to spend twenty-four seven with you” - to something that people could laugh over together - “You have not ever been a blanket on a grassy knoll with delicious food.” Then he even ends the message saying that, while he doesn’t prefer to work with Astrid, he and his sister will be “team players.”
What’s going on here? Astrid doesn’t want to work with the twins. The twins don’t want to work with Astrid. But Tuffnut says that they’ll try to cooperate. He’s being a bit more open about working with Astrid than she is about working with them. Ruffnut, though a bit quieter, seems to support her brother’s views. Whenever Tuffnut starts to hop into a social rapport tactic to keep the conversation kinder and more lighthearted, she picks up on what he’s doing and also directs the conversations in that direction.
The Scene of the Argument
After Hiccup leaves, the twins immediately fall to their slackard selves. They think it’s best to go back and sleep. Astrid won’t suffer for this, but demands that she sees the twins sweating at work, preparing defenses for potential attacks. The twins don’t like this one bit. While they try to include Astrid in their slacking off plan, she just directs them to work; Ruffnut and Tuffnut grimace behind her back, and Ruffnut even sticks out her tongue as the Hofferson warrior passes.
Astrid’s got a really good reason to make sure the twins get to work. They’re in a dangerous situation, and they can’t spend the time sleeping and goofing off. At the same time, the twins have a good reason for being irritated; she’s commanding them to get to work. Ruffnut is frustrated to the point she sticks her tongue out at Astrid, but she does it behind her back, and keeps her internal thoughts to herself… for now.
We do see the twins carting a log in the next scene, but they do it while chatting, and they aren’t anywhere near as efficient as Astrid is. Astrid tells them to quit talking, saying it reduces efficiency; Tuffnut mocks her vocally while Ruffnut rolls her eyes. It’s strike two for Ruffnut; she bites her tongue yet again, but she is annoyed at being reprimanded. “Real mature, guys,” Astrid hisses, which probably only infuriates Ruffnut more; from Ruffnut’s perspective, Astrid doesn’t seem to be acting maturely herself, being as she’s tersely telling them they can’t even talk while they work.
The twins finally reach the stack of logs. Astrid sarcastically says, “Go team,” to refer to the fact she carted everything up there herself (minus their one log). Ruffnut and Tuffnut toss the log toward the pile, but it hits the other logs and causes them to roll over the side of the cliff.
Now here’s something interesting: While they’re throwing the logs at the pile, they make this facial expression.
Do you see that? Tuffnut seems happy, like a little puppy, whereas Ruffnut is holding… a smirk.
Guys, the twins missed the pile of logs on purpose.
They don’t snap back at Astrid directly verbally, but they’re making an action statement here: they’re a little sick of her bossing them around. “Sure, we’ll do the work, but we won’t get the log on top,” they’re essentially indicating.
Their shocked facial expressions indicate they just meant the log to bump at the bottom, not to cause a chain reaction. They are both legitimately surprised and abashed to see the entire stack fall off the side of the cliff.
This much is an honest mistake.
After that, Astrid tells them to make stairs. Instead of making stairs, the twins figure out the zipline.
And they’re pretty excited about it.
Here begins the point Ruffnut breaks loose and yells at Astrid.
Right before Ruffnut criticizes Astrid, the twins are in a good mood. They’re in such a good mood that they immediately want to share their excitement with Astrid.
Tuffnut: Astrid! You have got to try this. The landing’s a little rough, but - Ruffnut: Astrid, we know this wasn’t what you were planning, but we really think we’re onto something here. The stairs have their own use for sure, but this can truly come in handy.
The twins have been goofing off. They haven’t been constructing stairs, which is the obvious thing they should have been doing. After having screwed up stacking the logs the first time, they should maybe have felt penitent about this and tried to make up for Astrid. Instead, they go ziplining. Not very responsible.
But look at what they’re trying to do: they’re trying to get Astrid to join in the excitement of their discovery. Even though Astrid has been badgering them all day, they’re still willing to be open and happy with her. “Check this out! It’s pretty cool!” they’re exclaiming.
Ruffnut even acknowledges that they didn’t precisely follow Astrid’s orders. “Astrid,” she says, “we know this wasn’t what you were planning.” She points out that Astrid’s idea still has merit. “The stairs have their own use for sure.” She’s not trying to discredit Astrid’s work or say that the stairs are bad. She’s still affirming the fact that Astrid’s work has good credibility. However, at the same time, Ruffnut is trying to tell Astrid that what they have figured out is something good - it’s the productivity that Astrid wants! The twins have discovered something that’ll help Dragon’s Edge, exactly as she thinks Astrid wants to hear!
Astrid doesn’t see the merit in the zipline. She’s got good reason. The twins’ first suggestion was to sleep in. Then they didn’t cart that many logs. Then they knocked all the logs she carted off down the cliff. Then they screwed around instead of building stairs. Then they knocked off all her logs - AGAIN - when they landed from the zipline. The twins have not only been unproductive themselves, but they’ve negated all of Astrid’s own productivity by wrecking her progress. She’s so angry from putting up with so much… that her eye is twitching.
Thus, when Ruffnut says, “This can truly come in handy,” she responds skeptically, asking, “It can, huh?” But this doesn’t even dissuade Ruffnut’s enthusiasm. She’s used to Astrid being short-tempered and terse. “Yeah! In the right situations -“
Astrid cuts Ruffnut off again. Astrid, ever the practical thinker (though not the innovator), asks, “And what situations would those be, exactly, Ruffnut?” She’s not asking this to learn more information - she’s doing it to shut Ruffnut down.
Now the twins aren’t good at thinking on the spot to answer questions. Astrid’s constant questioning stumps both Thorstons, leaving them fumbling for words. Ruffnut isn’t wrong that the zipline could come in handy. But it’s not like she thought this out ahead of time; Astrid isn’t giving her any slack.
The fact Ruffnut can’t give an answer right away causes Astrid to snap first. She criticizes:
Astrid: You have no clue, do you? Didn’t think so. And do you know why? Because the two of you don’t think. You don’t plan. You just come up with these crazy ideas and forge ahead with no regard to logic or what you’re even supposed to be doing. What am I going to do with you guys? Seriously! Tell me!
This is a perfect exhibition of Astrid’s philosophy that I outlined at the start of this analysis. Astrid doesn’t take stock in crazy, innovative ideas. She’s a person who’s grounded in what’s secure, solid, practiced. The fact that the twins found a new idea by goofing around isn’t going to impress her. As she sees it, they “came up” with something, but it wasn’t any good and had no practical purpose, because the twins have “no regard to logic” or what they’re “even supposed to be doing.”
She is right. Even if Astrid is being a little bossy, the twins really shouldn’t be screwing around when they’re threatened with such dangerous upcoming circumstances. So what we see here is Astrid thinking about all the pros of her personal philosophy and all the cons of the Thorstons’ personal philosophy.
Here’s the problem: Astrid isn’t thinking about the shortcomings of her own philosophy, and she’s so angry that she’s not going to consider the Thorstons’ merits. Potentially, even were Astrid calmer, she wouldn’t be able to give a list to what the Thorstons are good for; other scenes in RTTE give proof to that.
Then Ruffnut steps in. Ruffnut is so angry that she’s going to present her side. She’s going to defend her personal philosophy and attack hers. She’ll point out the weaknesses to Astrid’s system of values.
And man oh man is she harsh.
Ruffnut has been holding back for a long time. She stuck out her tongue at Astrid. Then she rolled her eyes. Then she threw the log in the wrong place. She continued making grimaces a few times after that. And while Astrid was ranting, you could see Ruffnut frowning… and also thinking.
This is someone who doesn’t tend to bite; Ruffnut and her brother tend to let insults slide, even when it’s bothering them, because they think it’s better for group morale and positivity. Now, though, after really thinking this through, and after biting her tongue many times… Ruffnut speaks up. Chances are, she’s been holding back for more than this incident… she could have been holding back for months… even years.
Ruffnut: Well, you can start by being kind. Oh wait! You can’t do that because kindness is nowhere in that scrawny little body of yours.Astrid: What?Tuffnut: Easy sis.Ruffnut: Back up, bro! I’ve got this!Astrid: Do you know what your problem is, Ruffnut?Ruffnut: Oh you bet I do. I’ve got a list of problems so long I can’t even keep track. The question is, do you know what your problem is?Astrid: My problem? Are you serious?Ruffnut: Allow me to lay it out for you, my flaxen-haired friend. You have no respect for the people around you who are just trying to help and be a part of the team. You have no respect for Fishlegs, certainly none for Snotlout, and you couldn’t have less respect for the two of us! Now you can go ahead and shame the others, you can mock this entire island of dragons if you wish, but I am not going to stand here and listen to you insult the entire ‘nut family tree!Astrid: She’s wrong… you know. I-I-I do… I… [sigh] respect you guys…Tuffnut: Oh please. You can barely even say it.
Ruffnut and Astrid are both speaking exaggerated positions. Astrid is so angry that she tells Ruffnut and Tuffnut that they don’t think. Astrid knows that’s not entirely true; as you point out, Astrid knows the twins have subversive intelligence. Ruffnut, on her side, gives an exaggeration, too: Astrid does demonstrate some respect for Fishlegs, for instance, and the twins weren’t always being helpful in the teamwork. Both sides are also defending themselves, so they’re not going to talk about their weaknesses - they’re only going to harp on the weaknesses of others. But it means that what Astrid is saying to Ruffnut, and what Ruffnut says to Astrid, is equally “true.”
Now I’m finally going to directly respond to one of your questions. Why should Astrid have some respect for the twins? They’ve caused an avalanche. They made dummies instead of going on guard duty. They sleep when they should be working. They play with the Night Terrors, jeopardizing the security of the island. They goof off and make jokes rather than taking people seriously. They aren’t giving any good reason to earn Astrid’s respect. From her position as a warrior, they’ve got nothing going for them that falls under what Astrid considers decent and respectable.
But I’m going to flip the question on its head. Why should the twins have respect for Astrid? She doesn’t take their jokes well. She treats their humor as unbearable, rather than as the social-building glue it’s supposed to be. She ignores their contributions. She yells at them when they make honest mistakes. She forgets the fact that they do contribute to the team in dangerous situations when it counts the most. She doesn’t take their innovations with any respect. From the position of the twins, who believe that what is most important is giving positive, uplifting energy… why should they respect Astrid? All she does is beat them down time and time again. We can ask the question about why Astrid should respect the twins because they don’t align with her values of being a diligent warrior; but we can also ask the question about why the Thorstons should respect Astrid because she doesn’t align with their values of group rapport through friendliness and cheer.
And in this recent situation, Astrid has perhaps gone a bit too far. It’s one thing to tell the twins to stay on track, to be serious, and to work to prepare the island defenses. It’s another thing to boss them around, to tell them to quit talking, to speak demeaningly to them when they make an honest mistake, and to ignore the fact that the twins have tried to be “team players” from the beginning. The twins opted to cooperate; that’s why they carried the log up the cliff. Ruffnut is right saying, “You have no respect for the people around you who are just trying to help and be a part of the team.”
In fact, all of Ruffnut’s criticisms have WELL-FOUNDED REASONS for being said.
Astrid wants people to work effectively as a team, but she treats half the team - Snotlout, Ruffnut, and Tuffnut especially - with regular disrespect and disgust.
Astrid doesn’t respect when Snotlout, Ruffnut, and Tuffnut try to contribute to the team. She’ll often express open verbal shock if they express a good idea or brainstorm an idea she thinks is stupid. That’s not good team rapport.
Astrid might be very kind and supportive of Hiccup, but it’s only in extreme circumstances (like Snotlout nearly losing Hookfang) that she’ll show kindness toward the others.
I personally didn’t roll my eyes when Ruffnut laid out those concerns. It’s true that the twins have been obnoxious, lazy, and unhelpful on many occasions. But it doesn’t make Ruffnut’s criticisms any less true.
Astrid’s Respect Toward Others
I think that Ruffnut’s speech is extreme, but extremes tend to be spoken of truths when someone is angry. Astrid does demonstrate respect toward the others on multiple occasions in all the television series; she’s not completely negligent of the other dragon riders. Not at all.
Astrid gets upset at Hiccup for being rude to Snotlout in “Thawfest.” She’s respecting Snotlout’s emotions in this case; she doesn’t approve of Hiccup “rattling cages.” Astrid also supports Snotlout in “Race to Fireworm Island” by encouragingly talking to him about what it means to be heartbroken (see here and here). These are some instances of Astrid demonstrating respect toward Snotlout.
Still, by and large, we can agree that Astrid isn’t very nice to Snotlout. She throws him around repeatedly - literally. She shouts at him. She insults him when he says something stupid. She often insults him when he says something “surprisingly” smart. She gags whenever he kisses his muscles. She outright high-fives Heather when they work together to trip him. Over and over and over again, Astrid is demonstrating a lack of respect for Snotlout.
Astrid’s respect toward Fishlegs is harder to catch either way. She and Fishlegs don’t directly interact much, but one thing that is to be noted is that Astrid and Fishlegs aren’t going to hang out together alone anytime soon. Fishlegs is somewhat in the background for her. So it’s not exactly disrespecting Fishlegs; it’s moreso maybe she puts him aside and doesn’t place much attention in him.
And the twins? She’s nearly as rude to them as she is to Snotlout, with the amount of eyerolls and verbal backlashes she gives them.
The trend is, honestly, by and large, that Astrid isn’t showing the amount of respect she could toward them. Ruffnut makes a true point.
It doesn’t matter whether or not Ruffnut has been showing sufficient respect in turn. That’s a question for another day. The bearer of the information has no relevance on the fact that the information is true. Ruffnut’s right. Astrid’s respect record could be… certainly… improved.
And if you need to ask yourself whether or not there is truth in Ruffnut’s word, you only have to look at Astrid’s facial expression.
This hits home so hard, I wouldn’t be surprised if she were two short steps short of tearing up.
A second, also heartbreaking way you can confirm Ruffnut’s words are true is by watching and listening to Tuffnut. You’ll see him frown and look sad during the majority of the exchange. Additionally, he actively tries to stop Ruffnut from chewing Astrid out. Recall that he says, “Easy, sis,” right before Ruffnut barges in and starts ranting.
Tuffnut knows how angry his sister is.
Suddenly, we realize what the Thorstons have been doing over the years: they’ve been keeping mum about a long-lasting frustration. When Tuffnut says, “Easy, sis,” you can tell that he knows what Ruffnut is going through because this is nothing new. However, he and Ruffnut have developed a technique of getting around Astrid’s personality: by making jokes and turning frustrations into humor. Tuffnut makes all those jokes at the start of the episode to let the insults slide off, remember?
The twins have been intentionally doing this for a long time, and we see that, instead of being confrontational about problems, the way Ruffnut and Tuffnut handle problems is by trying to quietly work around them. They don’t enter things with straightforward animosity or belligerence, but try to do their own peaceful part to make things work the best they can. The silliness and friendliness in many conversations is a way of distracting others away from arguments. Tuffnut is trying to get Ruffnut to do that here, wanting her to back down and not chew Astrid out, even though they both know how both of them have been frustrated by the Hofferson girl.
When Tuffnut says, “Easy, sis,” he knows exactly what’s going on in her mind, is trying to remind her of their “plan” to just keep as cool as possible, and is showing his emotional support for her and understanding about how irritating Astrid can be.
Tuffnut thinks that Ruffnut is right: Astrid holds little respect. Ruffnut marches away, and Astrid stutters to Tuffnut that the criticism isn’t true. The fact Astrid is stuttering shows she’s shocked at the outburst, but also that it’s hit close to home. She tries to defend herself by saying, “I respect you guys,” but Tuffnut, wearied and disappointed, lets out what’s been in his own heart: “Oh, please. You can barely even say it.”
So all three people in this exchange believe it: Ruffnut clearly believes it. Astrid believes it. Tuffnut believes it. The insults are exaggerated, they’re over the top, and they’re definitely not true 100% of the time. But they hit home for a reason, and there’s no denying it.
Since I yakked a LOT, I figured I’d make some quick summarizing points.
Astrid’s frustrations at Ruffnut are just as valid as Ruffnut’s frustrations at Astrid. Both have different personal values, and what happens here is their personal values clash. They criticize the weaknesses of each others’ mental frameworks.
Both Astrid and Ruffnut did some good things and some bad things when it came to trying to secure the island. They both tried. They both made mistakes.
The twins are lazy, obnoxious, irresponsible, and sometimes inconsiderate. But Astrid can also be narrow-minded, easily irritable, and unimpressed by creativity, friendliness, and spontaneous innovation.
The twins’ silliness is personal choice. They are ridiculous because they find life more fun that way. In many cases, they are silly to the point it is destructive and harmful to others and themselves. In other instances, they are intentionally, tactfully silly to try to smooth out tense social situations. In these cases, they’re actually being incredibly clever; it’s a good way of avoiding direct blow-ups between members, and it’s how they’ve handled the majority of times they’ve come in conflict with someone like Astrid.
Tuffnut usually takes the forefront in the silliness. He’s better at it. Ruffnut tolerates crap by being quieter. But they do work together all the time, and will build on top one another and support one another.
Ruffnut bites her tongue many times before she finally shouts at Astrid. She has been frustrated with Astrid for a long time (and Tuffnut knows it) before she finally blows up about it aloud.
I do think Astrid has some respect toward Fishlegs, Snotlout, Ruffnut, and Tuffnut, but there are are a number of ways she could certain improve. Ruffnut makes a fair point.
Basically, I adore this scene. It speaks volumes of the emotional complexity of the Thorstons, it speaks into the weaknesses and strengths of three characters, and it’s an emotional, jaw-dropping moment that really hits me in the heart.
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