i'm actually so happy Toby Fox likes/is okay with undertale au's because oh my fucking god. people have been gaslighting themselfs to thinking he doesn't for the longest time ever
Like, you think you know how badly Kris's life sucks. Divorced parents, brother off to college, no friends, some strange higher power hijacking their body and going off on adventures without them... but hey, at least they're able to take some control back from us sometimes! At least they can go off and eat all the pie in peace! At least they can open a dark fountain in their home so they can spend more time with their cool friend Susie! Yay! I'm sure they're just leaving the door open for the cops to get in so they can save the day!
And then. AND THEN. Chapter 4... happens. And everything we thought we knew about Kris crumbles to dust before our very eyes.
Those snatched moments from the player? They weren't the triumphant grasp at freedom we thought, but another, yet more insidious layer of control that has been exerted upon them. Because for the end of Chapter 3 to have happened, a few things had to be prepared - the TV had to be plugged in, Susie had to come over, the tires had to be slashed so the police would be called, and the door had to be left open so that the Knight could gain entry - not the police, but The Roaring Knight. The Enemy.
And make no mistake - they didn't want to do ANY of it. Drinking in the Holidays' kitchen... the way their head turns whenever Susie or Noelle mentions them... Carol's ice-cold hand on their shoulder ("in the shadow of the Knight's hand")... do any of these things indicate Kris as a willing co-conspirator? Or rather, a child who has fallen into the clutches of a very manipulative - and very real - authority figure, who is being groomed and coerced into performing dangerous acts that threaten the lives of not just their friends, but their family, their town, and quite possibly the whole world?
We knew that Kris Dreemurr's life sucked before this. But we could never have anticipated just how badly it sucked, just how little control and agency they truly have, in any aspect of their life. This situation has been going on for MUCH longer than we've been around - you can tell that much from the birdcage. Their situation is so utterly, catastrophically FUCKED that death seems the most preferable outcome for them.
Remember Susie noting how Kris responds to Queen's offer to "Perish" with enthusiasm?
Remember the way they crumple onto the floor when Spamton NEO is about to kill them and take their SOUL, not even attempting to fight back?
Remember them whispering in Susie's ear in "the_newest_girl_girl"?
...yeah. It's THAT bad.
And you have to wonder... if we were never shunted into Kris's body... if we didn't literally FORCE Kris to move, to go to the dark world, to Fight and Spare enemies - to FORCE them to play at being a hero, in spite of their situation... What would have happened?
I think UT Asgore also just...also hates himself and his mistakes? Even though he obviously feels compelled enough by his duty to DO what he does, he clearly doesn't think he's RIGHT about it in the same way that DR Asgore does. In some ways they're almost like foils. UT Asgore thinks he's wrong to the point of self-destruction while nearly everyone else around him thinks he's right. DR Asgore is convinced that he's right, so right that things will HAVE to go back to normal as soon as he proves it, but no one else agrees. The truth of what happened is still unknown, but even if he were somehow proven completely 100% correct - which I seriously doubt will happen - he's still dead wrong about what the results would be. His own actions have ensured that.
I'm also remembering how UT Asgore (if Flowey doesn't kill him first) realizes nearly immediately that his dream of regaining a happy family with Toriel is nothing more than an impossible fantasy. It is a little different (His Kids Are Dead, it's literally impossible), but DR Asgore seems completely unable to come to the same realization even though Toriel is actively right here divorcing him.
The UT version just seems like a far more grounded and mature character - not too surprising, maybe, considering the vast differences in situation and backstory. It's a little hard to picture DR Asgore doing something incredibly painful just because he believed others needed it from him. I mean, wouldn't that just be...accepting the divorce and letting go?
(this is probably the last Asgore ask for a bit; i like them all just as my earliest posts may have indicated I find discussing him Fundamentally Uncomfortable)
yeah absolutely... i think because he feels like he's never had the chance to try to prove himself right, therefore he's never had to like question it the same way? not sure how to put it. after six souls, UT Asgore was heavily full of doubt because things just kept getting Worse despite his decision. DR Asgore hasn't had that space of time of trying the same thing over and over and burning out on believing it will work.
if that prophecy wasn’t 100% confirmed to be talking about you,
if there was something that might indicate you might not be the hero of legend,
something like using completely different equipment?
if there was something that implied the story had been changed,
that you were maybe supposed to be a different character…
ah, well. i wouldn’t worry about it, susie. keep putting that stock into that prophecy! you’re definitely the hero of legend, you can definitely base your newly found self worth around the idea of that. i’m sure nothing will come up that shatters this illusion.
Still incoherent about the new chapters, but something just occurred to me about the mechanics of the player's influence on Kris. In chapter four, Kris defies us by maliciously complying with our command's exact words:
Compare this to a similar scene with Asriel's room in Queen's mansion, where they simply close their eyes as we do the motion of opening the door- here they change what the actual motion is based on the command's wording.
Earlier, they cover their mouth before they can be cruel to Ralsei:
Kris stops themselves from completing their own sentence- they don't have any evidence to just predict what the player will say next, so this confirms they are aware of the whole sentence they have to say before they say it. Kris isn't just being forced through physical actions by the Red Soul, they can actually hear the entire command.
I don't know what to do with this piece of information at all.
Can't stop thinking about the complicated feelings Kris will probably have if they ever see/meet the vessel that we the players created at the start of the game
Personally I choose not to interpret their relationship with the Player as outright hateful, more so complicated, but even if they despise the Player... Seeing what was meant to be the Player's vessel, their body, their "partner", and knowing that something must have happened, something must have gone wrong for us to end up with them instead...
I don't expect them to instantly lose any bitter feelings they may have towards the Player. But can you imagine that? Hating, or maybe just begrudgingly tolerating, a being that has undeniably changed your life, has affected how others see you, and you can't really be sure if this situation will end positively for you, or if it'll end at all... and then you find proof that they didn't get a choice in this situation either. They didn't expect or want this to happen. They made themselves a vessel, made themselves something that should have prevented all this in the first place, that should have kept you from the position you are now in.
So, you have to ask: why is this being now stuck with you?
What on earth could have possibly kept this being from the vessel they crafted piece by piece?
With this new information, how does Kris recontextualize your actions? How do they feel about the Vessel? How do they proceed, knowing that you are both stuck together for the long haul, and it wasn't a choice made by either of you, but some force you both may have to face together in the future?
Deltarune overmorrow. If the Vessel is there, I guess we'll all find out together
Also we know the vessel will show up eventually. In Chapter one we make the duck machine and the machines design carries over to chapter 2, using a similar system. It might be foreshadowing.
The vessel is babey @cinnamonster-bun - Tumblr Blog | Tumgag
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