Still Haven't Thought Of A Good Title

[mo-mode]

[thundervengers]

Ok, look, we NEED to talk about my girl, my muse, my idol, Ava Starr.

Despite being team MVP on multiple occassions - first, by saving the quartet from a fiery death in the vault, then by staying and securing a getaway truck, then by recovering Bucky's vibranium arm, then by being the first to (note that there's no ungross way to say this) enter Bob to save Yelena, who moments earlier had called her a bad person - Ava barely gets any fan (or MCU...or Funko) love.

Ava does it all, saves their rag-tag team again and again. Moreover, she does it with flair, quiet confidence, and biting wit (RIP Walker's massive, throbbing ego)

So what is it then? Explain it to me like you would a preachooler.

[clives-archive]

I love her. I think her not getting as much attention as the others - mainly Yelena, Bob, Bucky, Walker - is a mix of all the reasons you mention. Plus, while she has development in the movie, it happens all on a level that is about her reactions, her interactions - we see her move from coldly professional and annoyed with everyone else to caring enough about everyone that she tells Bob in the Void of course they were coming to save them, they were the Chesapeake Valley Thunderbolts. And I think partly people don't pick that up, because they don't pay that much attention to people who don't have much dialogue.

If I should speculate, I think Ava might do rather well in Doomsday, because the Russos are usually really good with characters like that. They did extremely well with Nebula in Infinity War and Endgame, and they've always done pretty well with both Sam and Bucky, even when they weren't being developed much by the script, or had much dialogue.

[obscenetoyoubutisimplyam]

Since I've seen so many people talk about how often Lewis dies in his projects, I actually decided to figure out how much and separate them into categories. This isn't all of his works, some because they are shorts, or I don't have access to watch them.

WARNING, WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

LIVED:

The Line The Starling Girl The Caine Mutiny Court Martial Riff Raff Outer Range Them That Follow Top Gun Maverick Pink Skies Ahead Salem's Lot Battle of the Sexes Skincare Catch 22

DIED:

Bad Times At the El Royale Lessons in Chemistry

I LIVED BITCH!:

Press Play The Strangers: Prey at Night Thunderbolts

[marv-el-spot]

"they're the same picture...."

[donnovien]

Do you block people in the same fandom as you just because you don't like their takes?

[justonepurpose]

prev tags:

[tonydaddingham]

news just in!!! a lot of fandom issues could be resolved by recognising that characters aren't real people, and real people aren't characters!!! situation still developing, more at 10

[linusbenjamin]

We will always be alone. Thunderbolts* 2025 | dir. Jake Schreier

[clives-archive]

Some of mrcspectr's tags:

#the double meaning here fucks me up#because 'don't hurt her' when he and void are technically one and the same#when his biggest fear is that he DOES make everything worse#and that every bad thing he sees about himself will hurt her too by default

Adding to this, "Don't hurt her" is what his younger self says to his father when he is trying to protect his mother, so at least part of his fear here is becoming his father. (You may decide for yourself if Yelena then embracing him where his mother rejected him is more a protective older relative thing or a potential partner thing).

[clives-archive]

Among the blogs tumblr insists recommending to me, this week:

Hannigram (I don't ship)

Theist Satanists (I'm agnostic)

Christian Teens (see above, also, I'm almost 50?)

[my-belovea]

Hot take ?

Bob’s characterization makes way more sense when viewed through a psychological lens rather than treating Sentry/Void as totally separate identities. Personally, I’ve always seen Bob as someone dealing with symptoms that align more with bipolar disorder or even BPD, which is often linked to early childhood trauma (something I relate to myself).

The extreme highs of Sentry and the crushing lows of Void feel more like emotional states or coping mechanisms rather than distinct personalities like with DID, which is what Moon Knight experiences.

I think portraying Bob as ‘different people’ kind of misses the point—it oversimplifies what he’s actually going through. He’s not switching between identities; he’s cycling through emotional extremes, and sometimes those states come with memory gaps or shifts in perception that make it easy to misread as something else. But at the end of the day, he’s still Bob 🫠

(I saw someone post a similar blog but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this)

[clives-archive]

I think you're completely right, and wouldn't even call it a hot take. I mean, even in the post-credit scene Bob says he can't be Sentry without the Void, that's because both are connected to his manic and depressive episodes, respectively. He might eventually be able to use his powers without losing control - that is separate his powers from his mental illness - but right now, he simply can't.

[twilight-zoned-out]

When Bob flies up in the air and the Thunderbolts' reaction was "Wait, is that Bob?" it felt like a plot-necessary stretch at first. Even if he is the only "unaccounted for" person in the raid, Valentina's troops had shot him down just moments before. Then I remembered:

Walker was suspicious of Bob from the start

Walker saw Bob's eyes glow

Walker was the first one to ask whether the flying person was Bob

Yelena started getting more suspicious about Bob after talking with him in the electrical room

Their connecting "Bob" to "unidentified flying person" made more sense.

Also, Walker's treatment of Bob in the Silo was 100% out of line, but it also seemed like at one point he was intentionally goading Bob into "revealing" himself as a threat to prove John's suspicion.

[azurlite]

It definitely was at least partially on purpose! He noted the eyes after the wall dick swinging scene

[clives-archive]

And not just the eyes, either - John has the vision when he's helping Bob up from the elevator, and after he comes out of it when Yelena calls his name, Bob is giving him a look, and I think even then Walker almost makes the connection. Obviously, this also ties into him then later connecting the dots when Yelena goes into the void; just like she probably remembered that Bob had been in her memory in the vault. (This movie is honestly written pretty well.)

[disabled-grim-reaper]

So Bob accidentally terrorized the largest city in the U.S, and we forgave him because he had a hard life, And Wanda did the same thing on a much smaller scale for the same reason. So we can forgive her too, right? Right?

[clives-archive]

I wish people wouldn't fight about this, but I guess that's fandom for you?

I mean, while I think there are differences in what Bob and Wanda did, even in terms of how much they were or weren't responsible for what happened, or how much they were aware of what they did, or if they would have been able to stop it, I don't understand why we would approach the whole situation as "do we have to forgive these guys?"

Like, they both messed up, they both hurt people, but we know in both cases that this isn't what they set out to do. They're both a victim of nobody really knowing how to deal with powers on a level as they have them, which also means, if they want to run away - which Wanda kind of did at the end of Wandavision - nobody can really stop them.

And I think this is a really interesting situation, actually - they both have to create guidelines for themselves, even when their mental health is acting up, or they're grieving or hurt. We have seen that they both try to remove themselves from the equation - Wanda by seemingly sacrificing herself, Bob by refusing to use his powers at all. I'm pretty sure neither of these situations will stick, and how they continue dealing with that, and with the people around them, is what's really interesting to me.

And to return to the actual topic, even though they had different roads to becoming who they now are, they are two sides of the same coin - two messed up people who went through a lot of trauma and had frightening amounts of power thrust upon them. And to try and create a sort of competition about who is the "better" person here really seems pretty reductive.

[northpolardog]

and if i said yelena=steve, bucky=nat, walker=tony, ava=clint, bob=bruce, alexei=thor…. what then?

[clives-archive]

#YELENA is the one to check up on people#BUCKY is the one who pretends not to care but sees them as family#WALKER uses being as asshole as a defense mechanism#AVA is all sarcasm and very secretive about her life#BOB is calm and nice bc he knows his other guy isn’t#ALEXEI says he fighting for glory but he also just wants to help people

(Just reblogging with @northpolardog's tags, never mind me.)

[cryingmyeyesviolet]

Yelena and Bob are like a bonded pair of cats that cannot be separated or they’ll have behavioral problems

[mo-mode]

GUYS I FIGURED IT OUT

Clint in the vents and that’s his whole personality because he wasn’t fleshed out in the movies → Ava in the walls and that’s her whole personality because she wasn’t fleshed out in the movies

Thor eating poptarts and overusing proper words because English isn’t his first language and he’s the comedic relief → Alexei eating Wheaties and overusing proper words because English isn’t his first language and he’s the comedic relief

Natasha pranking and laughing at everyone from the sidelines because fanon decided she’s just silly like that → Yelena pranking and laughing at everyone from the sidelines because canon decided she’s just silly like that

Bruce being a sweet, soft-spoken, unassuming guy but also the most fucking unhinged monstrosity if you catch him on a bad day → Bob being a sweet, soft-spoken, unassuming guy but also the most fucking unhinged monstrosity if you catch him on a sad day

Steve being handed the de facto title of goody two shoes leader despite being the LAST person on board with this → Bucky being handed the de facto title of goody two shoes leader despite being the last person on board with this

Tony being a big-mouthed asshole that’s secretly haunted by his past mistakes which involved publicly supporting the US military via PR stunts as a weapons manufacturer → John being a big-mouthed asshole that’s secretly haunted by his past mistakes which involved publicly supporting the US military via PR stunts as a weapon himself

[telgip]

Ok, but I’ve seen no one talk about the representation of Bob’s manic episode as Sentry. Hear me out.

He describes himself in the movie as having really high highs and really low lows. They never use the word but that’s clearly bipolar he’s describing. A manic episode followed by a depressive one.

The Void is clearly the representation of his depressive episode. Obviously. But I really think that fight as blonde boy Sentry was his mania.

It’s not the typical manic depiction we’re used to seeing, he’s very very calm during that scene. But a lot of times when experiencing mania people describe themselves as feeling indestructible, unstoppable. Bob literally calls himself a god. That’s, that’s mania, babes.

His mental health manifests in his powers. He literally becomes indestructible. He literally becomes nothing, a void.

In addition: In the end credit scene he says he can’t be Sentry without also being The Void. They go hand in hand, just like bipolar. Now, I know nothing about this guy’s comic counterpart, but going off of what the movie has shown us, I’m assuming that if he gets his mental health managed, he’s going to have both power sets. He’s going to have the Superman like powers and the shadow like powers. They’re intermingled.

[clives-archive]

This, definitely. Jake Schreier, the director, said he was inspired by one of his personal friends when it came to fleshing out how Bob's mental issues worked, and from his description, it absolutely sounded like his friend was bipolar.

And it's really interesting to compare this to the comic version, where at least in the original version, you also have the two states as metaphors, but it's more about drug abuse and mental illness as connected issues. Comic Sentry is the good hero Robert wants to be, the one who protects people and saves the world, and the Void is what he fears himself to be, every darkness, every bad thought, and the Void always tries to dismantle the good the Sentry has done.

In the film, it's a bit different, and I think that connects to your analysis of Sentry and Void as the two sides of bipolar disorder, because while the Void is clearly bad news, the Sentry isn't good, either. He's too much, and while at first it feels great to be him, for Bob it still ends up with him crashing and turning into the Void. So I think what the film is saying at least for now is that the best condition is one where Bob can find a balance between these two.

[telgip]

Yessss.

I keep seeing people wanting to see Bob become a hero as Sentry and with how the movie presents it, I think that’s missing the mark.

In the film, he was terrifying as The Void but he was also scary as Sentry. He had no way of being kept in check. He was clearly not in his best state of mind (reads as manic) and he had the power to make any and all bad choices. In a way being Sentry has the potential of more harm because he wasn’t able to be talked down in that state. (Granted the team didn’t really give Yelena a good chance to try, but still)

Bob acted in a harmful/dangerous way as both Sentry and The Void. If he’s going to have a power set in future projects, become a hero, it can’t be with just the Sentry powers/look/persona. It’s gotta be something new - a meeting/melding of the two personas he’s presented. In a way he’s gotta just be Bob.

We all know how sometimes Marvel backtracks stuff when characters get placed in new projects under different directors and writers. I just hope they don’t undo this amazing depiction of a struggle with mental illness. I hope they don’t just turn around and make him superpowered good boy as Sentry.

[clives-archive]

In a way being Sentry has the potential of more harm because he wasn’t able to be talked down in that state. (Granted the team didn’t really give Yelena a good chance to try, but still)

Yeah, and from there it continued to build up. He went from just seeming more confident to "I'm a god actually" pretty quickly, and then he was suddenly at aggressive and paranoid, and was choking someone (which, yes, it was Val, and she treated him abominably, but what if Mel hadn't stopped him? Val's a normal human, he could break her like a twig.). Which given his past with that abusive father is pretty alarming and clearly wasn't meant to be something positive.

If he’s going to have a power set in future projects, become a hero, it can’t be with just the Sentry powers/look/persona. It’s gotta be something new - a meeting/melding of the two personas he’s presented. In a way he’s gotta just be Bob.

Yeah, exactly.

I hope they don’t just turn around and make him superpowered good boy as Sentry.

According to Lewis Pullman, the post-credit scene is actually meant to be part of Doomsday (which would definitely fit the Russos' MO), so at least the characterization about both parts going together will be kept for the time being. And after DD/SW, who knows what the situation will look like? I can't imagine they'd ditch the Void entirely, though, and making the Sentry something that also might become too much is simply a pretty good way of keeping his powers from becoming too story-breaking.

[clives-archive]

#my faith in the Russos ran out with how they handled Thor in Endgame 😮‍💨#but here’s hoping!!!

I mean, that's absolutely fair, that really wasn't great. *fingers crossed* they'll do better this time.

[telgip]

Ok, but I’ve seen no one talk about the representation of Bob’s manic episode as Sentry. Hear me out.

He describes himself in the movie as having really high highs and really low lows. They never use the word but that’s clearly bipolar he’s describing. A manic episode followed by a depressive one.

The Void is clearly the representation of his depressive episode. Obviously. But I really think that fight as blonde boy Sentry was his mania.

It’s not the typical manic depiction we’re used to seeing, he’s very very calm during that scene. But a lot of times when experiencing mania people describe themselves as feeling indestructible, unstoppable. Bob literally calls himself a god. That’s, that’s mania, babes.

His mental health manifests in his powers. He literally becomes indestructible. He literally becomes nothing, a void.

In addition: In the end credit scene he says he can’t be Sentry without also being The Void. They go hand in hand, just like bipolar. Now, I know nothing about this guy’s comic counterpart, but going off of what the movie has shown us, I’m assuming that if he gets his mental health managed, he’s going to have both power sets. He’s going to have the Superman like powers and the shadow like powers. They’re intermingled.

[clives-archive]

This, definitely. Jake Schreier, the director, said he was inspired by one of his personal friends when it came to fleshing out how Bob's mental issues worked, and from his description, it absolutely sounded like his friend was bipolar.

And it's really interesting to compare this to the comic version, where at least in the original version, you also have the two states as metaphors, but it's more about drug abuse and mental illness as connected issues. Comic Sentry is the good hero Robert wants to be, the one who protects people and saves the world, and the Void is what he fears himself to be, every darkness, every bad thought, and the Void always tries to dismantle the good the Sentry has done.

In the film, it's a bit different, and I think that connects to your analysis of Sentry and Void as the two sides of bipolar disorder, because while the Void is clearly bad news, the Sentry isn't good, either. He's too much, and while at first it feels great to be him, for Bob it still ends up with him crashing and turning into the Void. So I think what the film is saying at least for now is that the best condition is one where Bob can find a balance between these two.

[telgip]

Yessss.

I keep seeing people wanting to see Bob become a hero as Sentry and with how the movie presents it, I think that’s missing the mark.

In the film, he was terrifying as The Void but he was also scary as Sentry. He had no way of being kept in check. He was clearly not in his best state of mind (reads as manic) and he had the power to make any and all bad choices. In a way being Sentry has the potential of more harm because he wasn’t able to be talked down in that state. (Granted the team didn’t really give Yelena a good chance to try, but still)

Bob acted in a harmful/dangerous way as both Sentry and The Void. If he’s going to have a power set in future projects, become a hero, it can’t be with just the Sentry powers/look/persona. It’s gotta be something new - a meeting/melding of the two personas he’s presented. In a way he’s gotta just be Bob.

We all know how sometimes Marvel backtracks stuff when characters get placed in new projects under different directors and writers. I just hope they don’t undo this amazing depiction of a struggle with mental illness. I hope they don’t just turn around and make him superpowered good boy as Sentry.

[clives-archive]

In a way being Sentry has the potential of more harm because he wasn’t able to be talked down in that state. (Granted the team didn’t really give Yelena a good chance to try, but still)

Yeah, and from there it continued to build up. He went from just seeming more confident to "I'm a god actually" pretty quickly, and then he was suddenly at aggressive and paranoid, and was choking someone (which, yes, it was Val, and she treated him abominably, but what if Mel hadn't stopped him? Val's a normal human, he could break her like a twig.). Which given his past with that abusive father is pretty alarming and clearly wasn't meant to be something positive.

If he’s going to have a power set in future projects, become a hero, it can’t be with just the Sentry powers/look/persona. It’s gotta be something new - a meeting/melding of the two personas he’s presented. In a way he’s gotta just be Bob.

Yeah, exactly.

I hope they don’t just turn around and make him superpowered good boy as Sentry.

According to Lewis Pullman, the post-credit scene is actually meant to be part of Doomsday (which would definitely fit the Russos' MO), so at least the characterization about both parts going together will be kept for the time being. And after DD/SW, who knows what the situation will look like? I can't imagine they'd ditch the Void entirely, though, and making the Sentry something that also might become too much is simply a pretty good way of keeping his powers from becoming too story-breaking.

[telgip]

Ok, but I’ve seen no one talk about the representation of Bob’s manic episode as Sentry. Hear me out.

He describes himself in the movie as having really high highs and really low lows. They never use the word but that’s clearly bipolar he’s describing. A manic episode followed by a depressive one.

The Void is clearly the representation of his depressive episode. Obviously. But I really think that fight as blonde boy Sentry was his mania.

It’s not the typical manic depiction we’re used to seeing, he’s very very calm during that scene. But a lot of times when experiencing mania people describe themselves as feeling indestructible, unstoppable. Bob literally calls himself a god. That’s, that’s mania, babes.

His mental health manifests in his powers. He literally becomes indestructible. He literally becomes nothing, a void.

In addition: In the end credit scene he says he can’t be Sentry without also being The Void. They go hand in hand, just like bipolar. Now, I know nothing about this guy’s comic counterpart, but going off of what the movie has shown us, I’m assuming that if he gets his mental health managed, he’s going to have both power sets. He’s going to have the Superman like powers and the shadow like powers. They’re intermingled.

[clives-archive]

This, definitely. Jake Schreier, the director, said he was inspired by one of his personal friends when it came to fleshing out how Bob's mental issues worked, and from his description, it absolutely sounded like his friend was bipolar.

And it's really interesting to compare this to the comic version, where at least in the original version, you also have the two states as metaphors, but it's more about drug abuse and mental illness as connected issues. Comic Sentry is the good hero Robert wants to be, the one who protects people and saves the world, and the Void is what he fears himself to be, every darkness, every bad thought, and the Void always tries to dismantle the good the Sentry has done.

In the film, it's a bit different, and I think that connects to your analysis of Sentry and Void as the two sides of bipolar disorder, because while the Void is clearly bad news, the Sentry isn't good, either. He's too much, and while at first it feels great to be him, for Bob it still ends up with him crashing and turning into the Void. So I think what the film is saying at least for now is that the best condition is one where Bob can find a balance between these two.