What are your thoughts on what Martin says in 199, about him and Jon being together only under the specific circumstances of the series? I feel a bit bad about reading a lot of fanfictions where they get together in season one or without conflict because I think that may be discounting a very interesting aspect of their canon relationship.
Also, I love your Martin analysis, I feel like I understand him a lot better now!
I’m not sure which post you’re referring to but I’m really happy to hear you liked it, thank you!!
Okay so! I have taken a minute to respond to this bc I have a long answer lol this is a fun one for me. Shooort answer is I think it’s complicated! To me one of the biggest tragedy aspects is that we can ask “what if (blank) happened instead?” questions all day and we will never be able to answer because that Didn’t happen and it never will.
Now I’m going to get a bit more rambley about it bc there’s multiple layers to this to me. FIRST of all I think it’s important to recognize that Martin’s own perspective of the situation is an imperfect one. What he said could be true but while he frames it as being the most logical conclusion to come to I personally think he’s definitely being influenced by his own insecurities here. I mean, we know damn well he never had time to properly process and unpack Jonah showing him himself through his mother’s eyes and I don’t think he exactly felt lovable before that either, so why would he assume that Jon would ever fall in love with him outside of completely extraordinary circumstances? That would require Martin to believe that he’s enough all on his own, and nothing in his life or his behavior has ever reinforced that belief.
ABOUT JON. It’s so hard to say with him, because by the time he met Martin he had been passively influenced by the fears in the background for a Long Time. Even the mundane work stress was technically a result of spooky eye shit, since that’s the only reason he was even hired into a position he was not qualified for, and the whole feeling of being watched thing definitely upped the stress factor too. So in order to imagine a version of Jon without the fears meddling we would have to start unwinding a Lot and it’s really hard to say what his behavior would look like at that point. How much of who Jon is as a person has been influenced by The Horrors? We don’t know exactly.
So the question of “Would Jon and Martin be able to fall in love if everything wasn’t going to shit?” is kind of impossible to answer because it’s really just as likely as Any two people clicking, and getting a proper compatibility read is Hard because we don’t Know a version of Jon who isn’t being tormented by the fear gods in service of his Ultimate Fate To End The World that was set into motion when he was eight. Maybe without all of that Martin would’ve come off as charming and lovely to him instead of The Menace Who Haunts His Workplace lmao. We also don’t know when exactly Martin fell for Jon properly so it’s hard to say what it would take for him too. When it comes to canon divergence where the fears are still around but things go Differently I still think it’s kind of up in the air bc there is a lot we don’t actually know about Martin and Jon. We only got to know them in bits and pieces and in their worst and most painful moments which doesn’t actually give you a Full Picture of someone.
So! The long answer is also that we can never know :] I honestly feel “what if they got together sooner?” or “what if they got together without the fears in a normal world?” fics are equally as plausible as any other speculative alterations to canon or alternate universes bc it’s alllll a mystery! It is Absolutely possible that they wouldn’t have been compatible for one reason or another too! But I don’t think that’s necessarily a given just bc Martin said so bc Martin couldn’t have known that for sure either. I can’t help but wonder if he actually found it more comforting to assume it wouldn’t have worked out without all of the trauma bc it kinda cuts down on the feeling of loss? Like, if there is no kinder world where they could have just been two normal happy people in love then that nice thing wasn’t stolen from them because it was impossible, which means that Martin doesn’t need to grieve it. It’s probably a lot easier to think that way when Martin has already been having to carry and compartmentalize a lot of grief in order to be able to Keep Moving Forward so there would really be no point to stack something else on top of that when it would serve no purpose in helping them reach the end of their evil scary journey.
I actually really enjoy fanfictions in which they meet under normal circumstances without the horrors and it doesn’t go well too tbh, the tension is fun. Having them get together in season 1 is also kind of a hard sell for me but I’m kinda open to anything if the writer can pull off the characterization while doing it. I do love when people get ✨creative✨ with their alternate scenarios instead of going the easy route with it.
Anyways! I think I’ve rambled enough. Thank you for the ask, I enjoyed the opportunity to go on a tangent. I looove thinking too hard about these two lol